User talk:Saair/Archive 1

It remained useful
@Cordless Larry, you can see my talkpage contains archive box, I did nothing, just copied the beginning of your talkpage. Sinner (talk) 06:54, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter
I can see 3 notifications that you left a message on my talkpage but I could not see it. Please send the message again! Sinner (talk) 07:48, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Click the "View history" tab to see the page history. You blanked the page. Click the "prev" links to see my edits. All 3 were fixes and not messages. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:19, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Help me
I want to cite a source for example. The link I provide produces an error. What is this External link in? How can I solve this error. Help page is confusing. Provide me simple guidance here. Sinner (talk) 14:07, 24 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, in the reference template, you have put the URL into the title parameter. Where it says, it should say  . I have provided the complete reference template here, which you can copy and paste into the article you want it to be included in:  . This will produce: (see box below). If you want more help, you may want to read referencing for beginners, or you can click this link to ask a question, or just leave a message on my talk page.  Seagull123  Φ  14:58, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

@User:Seagull123, Your answer is very helping and detailed, thanks. Sinner (talk) 16:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

@331dot
Can a user create subpage of his userpage in which he writes information about him or adds his favourite pictures which are completely for the individual user, and will never become regular wikipedia article. Sinner (talk) 06:36, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Permitted userpage content is described here, which would include subpages. Please review this section as well which explains what is not permitted;(specifically "personal web pages") in short, any materials posted to Wikipedia must pertain to Wikipedia in some way.  331dot (talk) 08:53, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * @331dot is it ok to create a page like I have created this user subpage. Sinner (talk) 15:37, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * That seems OK. 331dot (talk) 16:51, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

You are all Welcomed here!
Welcome! PrimeHunter, User:Cordless Larry, Ciapan, John from Idegon, Cullen328, and 331dot!

I want to ask from all of you what types of sites are considered reliable in wikipedia? Are facebook and twitter reliable? If some information on wikipedia can be verified from there, should I provide a link to these sites? Sinner (talk) 08:11, 26 July 2017 (UTC)


 * No, they ar not. Facebook, Twitter and other social network services serve to people generally as means of publishing information about themselves, so they are primary sources. As such they don't count as reliable sources. See WP:Verifiability policy and its section WP:SOURCE for more detailed explanation. --CiaPan (talk) 08:24, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I would add that sites that are user-editable also are not considered reliable sources(sites like IMDB or even Wikipedia itself) as information is not checked and verified prior to publication- as opposed to a news outlet or book. 331dot (talk) 09:25, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Social media pages can be reliable sources for uncontroversial information about the owner of the page. See WP:SELFSOURCE. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:13, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Adding to the correct information above, a reliable independent source that helps establish notability will have professional editorial control, and a reputation for accuracy, fact checking and correcting errors. Context matters too. We are stricter with sourcing of medical and scientific articles than popular culture topics. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  18:03, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Blanking the page
Hi, was there a reason for blanking the Teahouse page? Regards, Alex ShihTalk 05:15, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Alex Shih, I didn't did so voluntarily, I was writing a comment in Teahouse, and seeing preview again and again, when I saved my comment, only this thread remained intact and all page was blanked, when I reloaded the page, all Teahouse was intact, my edit was yet not saved. It happened involuntarily, I did not want to blank Teahouse. Sinner (talk) 05:32, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Colorful signature
Where I should put the and < /span > ,etc., to get a colorful signature. Sinner (talk) 11:07, 25 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I suggest you read Signatures, esp. the WP:CUSTOMSIG section and WP:SIGAPP subsection with links from there. But be careful: too much formatting makes text fun but unreadable. --CiaPan (talk) 12:47, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Cordless Larry, I just want to get your suggestion to know where to write text suggested in above suggested links to get a colorful signature? Please give me a simple advice and suggestion how can I make my signature colorful? At this time I just want to learn, currently I am not interested in having a colorful signature. Sinner (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no idea, Nazim Hussain Pak. I suggest asking at the Teahouse. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:29, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * @Cordless Larry, That is annoying, I think we just have to have a long discussion at Teahouse. Take part and get idea?Sinner (talk) 11:50, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Customosing signature
@Cullen328, I have read Signatures, but still I am confused. I want to make my signature colorful. I just want to know where I should put the codes that are suggested in this page to get a colorful signature? Sinner (talk) 15:35, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Please read the Signature tutorial, Nazim Hussain Pak. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  18:50, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Talkpage discussions
Please take a look at WP:INDENT. If you indent your comments correctly on a talkpage, it´s easier to follow the discussion and clearer who is talking to whom. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:36, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
 * , what I understand from this is that I should add my comment without use of colon when asking questions and using it to answer comments of other users such every one is clear to whom I am talking. Sinner (talk) 02:09, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That's right, but that's not all. You should not just use 'one colon when answering', but rather use 'one colon more than was used in the statement, which you are answering or commenting'. Just like I used two colons now to comment your answer, which has one colon, and I'll use one colon in a moment to comment what Gråbergs Gråa Sång wrote above with no colon. --CiaPan (talk) 16:01, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That's right. --CiaPan (talk) 16:02, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

To keep from seeing photos
I don't know whether this would actually work, but after seeing your Teahouse questions, I would suggest adding this to User:Nazim Hussain Pak/skin.css

We get complaints from time to time from Muslims who say photos of Muhammad should not be shown, and you might be somoen who would feel that way.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  21:01, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * , thanks but I already know how to hide pictures from specific articles and how to hide specific pictures. Sinner (talk) 05:11, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Asking People or "Suggesting" People Leave Wikipedia?
I was following your dilemma here (Teahouse) over what I can only assume is an investigation into how to use Wikipedia in a "family safe" manner, in the Teahouse. One of the editors "suggested you leave." I apologize in this person's behalf and in Wikipedia's behalf, and as a human being. I think to respond to your honest and guileless investigation with so negative and inhospitable response is objectionable. I posted a topic on the user's talk page: Asking People or "Suggesting" People Leave Wikipedia?. I think you should get an apology from that user. In any case, I again, apologize in his behalf. I'm ashamed to have to read stuff like that thing he wrote you, without any provocation. Do not allow this type of stuff to build discouragement in your soul. Hope this helped. B'H. MichaelAngelo7777  (talk) 17:21, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I apologise unreservedly... I am a grumpy old liberal, but please review the users edits MichaelAngelo7777  his edits are nothing to do with editing in a family safe manner! Theroadislong (talk) 19:43, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Advice
I'm not sure what advice I can offer you. I would stress that I do not believe anyone "wants" you to leave or even thinks that you are harming Wikipedia. However, what people are saying is that based on what you have said that Wikipedia does not seem compatible with what you believe it should be or what you want out of it. There is nothing wrong with that, few websites are universally acceptable to all humans. If you need to do something on your computer to affect how you view Wikipedia, that is your business, and it might even be necessary if you have a family and children, but this is not going to be something that Wikipedia is going to enable as it is fundamentally opposed to Wikipedia's core beliefs. If that's not something that you can accept it will be difficult for you to participate here. That is not a bad thing or desired by anyone, it just is the way it is.

There are many users around the world who are offended by various articles or subject matter, (not just Islam but subjects like abortion, political views, etc.) but still successfully participate here by confining what they do to areas that they can participate in and avoiding the areas they don't. I might suggest trying that and seeing how much offensive content you actually come across during the course of your edits. You might find that you don't come across any or very little(which you could probably attempt to block as has been described to you).

As for family members or children, educating them about the internet in general, and Wikipedia in particular, is very important. Your children should know what you expect and you can also tell them what they should do if they accidentally come across something you don't want them to see and why you don't want them to see it. The internet is not that different from life itself; parents must educate their children in their values and in how to react to the unexpected situations they will come across in their lives. There is software that you can obtain for your computer that can block access to certain websites and probably even specific pages on Wikipedia if you are willing to figure out which pages should be on such a list. Most current versions of operating systems also allow you to restrict the use of programs like web browsers so that they can't be used when you aren't around. You may want to look into such things.

In short, no one wants you to leave, as Wikipedia is best when as many people participate as want to- but it doesn't seem like Wikipedia is a good fit with your views. I would stress again that is not a bad thing, it just is the way it is. Only you can decide if you are able to participate here and if you can adjust your comfort level to permit it. If you have any other comment, feel free to post below. Best wishes 331dot (talk) 16:19, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * @: In Blocking page view, said my problem can be solved if a volunteer develops a script for me. Do you have any idea about such script? Sinner (talk) 13:08, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I put the link on where to make a script request in the Teahouse thread. Nthep (talk) 13:15, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello!
Once I was talking with Cordless Larry. He said he was able to become an admin but running an adminship is a very hard process, he did want to become an administrator because he can do what he wants without becoming an administrator. You are an admin. I want to ask what type of difficulties an admin faces? Answer not needed immediately but detailed. Sinner (talk) 11:09, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Reminder
I am here to offer a friendly reminder that Wikipedia is not compulsory, and you are in no position to demand other Wikipedians to give any more time and effort than they wish. Here is an essay on this kind of situation if you haven't read it already. I would advise you to kindly walk away from this discussion and seek help elsewhere, and focus more on building an encyclopedia. Alex ShihTalk 10:24, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, I have already withdrawn from going more into that discussion, realizing all colleagues have fled and no one looks more interested in that discussion. Sinner (talk) 10:49, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Another question: How to add a two or three column table in an article without introducing links to other pages? Sinner (talk) 10:49, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
 * See Help:Table on how to build a wide variety of tables using wiki code. No links are required. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Minor edits
You have marked some of your recent edits as minor. You need to read the definition at Help:Minor edit. --David Biddulph (talk) 15:50, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Chak Choti Shafi
I've restored the page history here: User:Nazim Hussain Pak/Chak Choti Shafi. Deryck C. 10:00, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Edit Conflict
Hello, Sinner.

In this edit you removed my answer when you added your own. I am sure this was not intentional: I'm guessing that you hit an Edit Conflict, perhaps twice; and I know they are confusion. But please be careful that you don't do this again. I have restored my answer before yours. --ColinFine (talk) 11:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * , Hello! I started editing that section when there was no reply. I edited, saw preview and saved but the editing box appeared again, I saved it and it had a reply from Maproom before mine, I did not know you were editing and saving it. This really happened not intentionally. I did not know that I was reverting your reply Sinner (talk) 11:40, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

The Teahouse
Hello Nazim Hussain Pak,

This is a formal request for you to stop discussing your ideas regarding blocking articles and images at the Teahouse. Many editors have explained why your ideas are contrary to the Wikipedia ethos. More importantly, you are proposing a major policy change. The Teahouse is a place for new editors to ask questions about existing procedures, policies and guidelines regarding editing Wikipedia. The Teahouse is not a venue for discussing policy changes, and has no power to implement any such changes. I must request that you stop engaging in these debates at the Teahouse. Thank you. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  04:26, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * As another voice here, I too find your enquiries at Teahouse to be non productive. When you waste other editor's time on things that have nothing to do with creating and improving encyclopedia articles, you take up their time to do just that. Further, you are doing the same thing here at your talk page. You have been blocked for and have admitted to, sock puppetry. Enquiring on what it takes to become an administrator is a waste of everyone's time. You'll become an administrator shortly after pigs learn how to fly. If you were to pick any action on Wikipedia to disqualify yourself from being an admin, socking would be it. Edit the encyclopedia. Ask questions about how to edit. It's a fair bet that this continued discourse on not seeing things is going to not end well for you if you continue. If you do not want to see things, do not look at them. No matter what theology you follow, all acknowledge that mankind has free will. Use yours. John from Idegon (talk) 06:31, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * and, Welcome and Exa-thanks, I have read and understood what you said, and now no one will see I'm discussing any non-important thing at Teahouse, thank you very much for your reminder and I'm very sorry and apologize for wasting so important time of users. Please forgive me what happened, in future you will see me a cooperative user, thank you very much! Sinner (talk) 10:20, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * And, I did not want to vandalize but reason was lack of knowledge, I did not know about sock at that time, I have realized I was wrong and have apologized for that, please do not consider me really probleming as I were in past, I am going to change what I was! Thank you for your advice. Reply to express what you think, please! Sinner (talk) 10:20, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Please also take care not to delete the text of other users' answers, as you did here. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:23, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Sahabi ! Please read the reason in section below. Sinner (talk) 11:48, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Unknown reason
¤Welcome after a long time, ! You said do not delete (revert, I think) edits by other users. What happened was I started editing that thread, completed my editing, looked preview, and clicked save, the edit was to be saved but edit box appeared again. I saved the editbox. I didn't know was editing at same time, my edit was saved and his edit was reverted. It happened unintentionally. What is main reason for this incident, why edit box appeared again when I saved after seeing preview? Sinner (talk) 14:26, 16 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The process which you describe is what is known as an edit conflict. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:55, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * What David said. You should get a warning when an edit conflict occurs. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:47, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * @, I usually get edit conflict, it but was not edit conflict, it was something else, if it was an edit conflict then I had received a warning, it was not edit conflict because there was no notice of edit conflict. Sinner (talk) 00:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Focus
I have noticed that since July 29, you've made almost 150 edits, only one of which has been to an article. In the last 150 edits you've made, 75 have been to Teahouse. ANother 16 have been to your user space and 32 to your user talk page. You really need to remember that our project is here for developing and improving articles. Right now your focus is not on that. If you continue like this, you could find yourself blocked for not being here to contribute to the project. only (talk) 01:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

AfC notification: User:Nazim Hussain Pak/Wheel Construction has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at User:Nazim Hussain Pak/Wheel Construction. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 07:20, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * @, this article is about making wheels, and construction in Wheel refers to structure of wheels, we can change name of this draft. Sinner (talk) 07:31, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The article includes construction WP:Wheel. Theroadislong (talk) 07:36, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * @, Wheel discusses structure of rimb, tyre, etc. My draft deals with process of making wheels, the two subjects are different. We can change name of this draft to Wheel making or else. Thank you very much. Sinner (talk) 07:42, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * We also have an article called Wheelbuilding. Theroadislong (talk) 12:20, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * @, thank you very much, my draft is rich in sources and the article is poor, I happily say my draft be merged into that article. Now I shall merge my draft into Wheelbuilding. But it will lead to deletion of my draft and 40+ edits. How can I prevent my edits from deletion? Sinner (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The two terms stand as for wire and non-wire wheels, a consensus is needed for proceeding. Sinner (talk) 10:01, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Please stop
Editing unblock requests of others like you did here. I don't know what you're trying to do, but this is definitely not helpful. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  15:34, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I now see that has already warned you about such behavior but that doesn't seem to have had any effect on you. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  15:36, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * You are claiming to be here as an editor wanting to make a difference, and have asked several times for a clean slate. As such, please be willing to hear and acknowledge the constructive feedback provided by fellow editors here for the same purpose.  You can't, and shouldn't, attempt to sweep any unfavorable comments under the rug so that others can't see what's going on, as you attempted to do by simply deleting the section from your talk page.  This isn't useful to your personal growth as an editor, nor to the community as a whole.  As a follow-up to the purpose of this thread, please don't edit other people's responses, questions, proposals, etc.  You can't and shouldn't speak for other people.  You gave this editor your opinion on how to address the unblock request, and when it wasn't taken, you took it upon yourself to make the changes for them.  Unacceptable.  I'm afraid that if this behavior continues, this account is taking a path towards being blocked as well - nobody wants that. - NsTaGaTr (Talk) 17:10, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, anything else? Sinner (talk) 00:31, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Nazim Hussain Pak/Art
I have tagged this page for speedy deletion. This kind of pages is exactly what have gotten you blocked in your previous alternative account. Wikipedia is not your private web host. Please stop, thanks. Alex ShihTalk 17:49, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Please also delete all of my skin and vector pages, other than User:Nazim Hussain Pak/common.css. they are of no use for me, thanks. Sinner (talk) 00:53, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Chak Choti Shafi (again)
I have moved your article to Draft:Chak Choti Shafi because it needs better sourcing to address the concerns previously expressed at Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 June 30. In particular, you can't include population data in an article without providing a source. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:43, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Those were two sources that I managed to find,, I removed everything that could not be sourced. It will take long time to find a number of other sources. Sinner (talk) 13:36, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I wonder where you got the population, area, elevation, etc. from then? Also, as per our previous discussions, it would help if you could provide co-ordinates or a link to the village's location on a map, so that its existence and status can be verified. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:42, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That effort will not stop with time,, the bad thing was I could not provide online links to sources I cited. Sinner (talk) 14:11, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Online links are not required you can cite books, magazines, journals etc. Theroadislong (talk) 14:13, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I have already cited a report by Pakpattan District Council, not available online, . This is a village article, that gathers its information from that report. Sinner (talk) 14:28, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * But that doesn't appear to have been published anywhere. Theroadislong (talk) 15:06, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * , Government of Pakpattan often publishes papers about problems of its villages with their introduction as Village Report. I could not find these papers online. But managed to find in government institutions. Sinner (talk) 00:36, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Showing notability for a settlement is quite easy. All you need is one published official source to prove it exists and some government (it doesn't even have to be a unit of this country's government) has recognized the name. The US Geological Survey publishes topographic maps of the entire world. Adding the coordinates to the draft is key as other editors can then help you locate the appropriate map to cite. Acme Mapper 2.0 is an available internet resource to help you map coordinates. You cannot use it to show notability, but you can get the coordinates for this location by using it, which will aid in finding an appropriate source. You have to do this, as it appears that at least amongst the commenters here, no one knows where this place is. John from Idegon (talk) 19:02, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Pornography in Saudi Arabia for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Pornography in Saudi Arabia is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Pornography in Saudi Arabia until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 14:42, 27 August 2017 (UTC)