User talk:Saboem

Bok Man Kim
Thank you for creating the bio on Bok Man Kim. Please provide some information on this individual's Notability per WP:BIO, and why he should stay in wiki. Thanks! Djma12 23:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have tagged Bok Man Kim as a possible copyright violation, as it is lifted verbatim from http://www.chunkuhndo.com/kim.html. If you would like to contest this, please refer to the article's discussion page.  Thanks! Djma12 22:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I own the Chun Kuhn Do page, and I am the person who wrote his bio there. D.Gaul

Not a problem. If this really is the case, all you would need to do in order to revive the page is to follow the simple steps recommended by WP:CP ''Copyright owners who submitted their own work to Wikipedia: If you submitted work to Wikipedia which you had previously published (especially online), and your submission was marked as a potential infringement of copyright, stating that you are the copyright holder of the work on the article's talk page helps, but will not likely prevent deletion. It is sufficient to either:''


 * Make a note permitting reuse under the GFDL at the site of the original publication; or 
 * Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en at wikimedia dot org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation.

Please note, I'm not sure *who* is the original author now, as I've found this page replicated many times on the internet:

http://www.integritymaa.com/kim.htm http://www.lacancha.com/kimbokman.html http://www.ltkdf.com/Bok-Man-Kim.html

Best regards,

Djma12 01:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC) I also own and run the http://www.integritymaa.com website http://www.ltkdf.com belongs to his son Won Kuk Kim and the third site is a TKD hall of fame website. There are many other site associated to the World Chun Kuhn Do Federation that have been allowed to use this bio, I will follow the other recomendations you gave. D.Gaul

I have sent an e-mail to permissions-en at wikimedia dot org as suggested.

Regarding edits made during December 15 2006 (UTC)
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. At any rate please do not do more than three reverts in a 24h period. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. John254 02:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Bok Man Kim Deletion Discussion
Hey Saboem. Look, I have nothing against Bok Man Kim, and I have no expertise in TKD. However, I do know that none of the current citations fit the degree of rigor required by WP:BIO. If you can produce any other third party sources that you claim to have (references to Black Belt Magazine, newspapers, etc...), I'll be more than happy to recommend a closure to the deletion request. Best regards, Djma12 03:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The link to TKD & Korean martial arts magazine is here http://www.martialartsinprint.com/ they also publish combat magazine which has also published articles about GM Kim their website is being redone at the moment but should be back up soon one article came out in TKD and Korean Martial arts I believe June 2003 (is a European mag so maybe that is just when it made it to the US)by the way your remark insinuating that I am making anything up is uncalled for as I have stated a simple google search would net you some info. As to the TKD Hall of Fame the Bio is what they took from his website yes, but they also are in the process of scanning and uploading newspaper articles to support their info, here are some they have up now http://www.lacancha.com/brunei1.html http://www.lacancha.com/brunei2.html http://www.lacancha.com/brunei3.html the first article is in english the second and third well I am not sure what is the official language of Brunei, more are suppossed to be posted during the next month or so. Djma12 I am not sure what you are looking for but I asure you this article was put up not as an advertisement.If you have any quesstions please feel free to ask.Saboem 05:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Saboem, In reference to your email -- I think you made several points so I'll address them one by one. Djma12 17:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * First of all, I had no desire to delete the Jhoon Rhee page. However, after you brought him up in the Bok Man Kim Deletion discussion ("Bok Man Kim did more to spread Tae Kwon Do to south east Asia and the world then say Jhoon Rhee who has an article on wiki"), I felt compelled to list his page as well.  To be fair, I followed up on your lead on Ed Parker as well, but that page at least has ONE 3rd party citation (IMDB), even if it is a weak one.
 * I have nothing against Bok Man Kim or Jhoon Rhee. I have issue with their ARTICLES.  They were unencyclopedic and had no 3rd party verification per WP:BIO.  Websites that are advertisements for books/events/schools or websites from official sponsors of the sports do NOT count as 3rd party verification.  I suggest you fully read WP:BIO's requirements for sports figures before you make accusations of "no matter what facts were presented", as the facts that were presented were irrelevent to WP:BIO.
 * If you'll remember, I began this innocently enough as a request for more citation and a resolution of WP:Copyright. I had no intention for deletion.  But when my requests for 3rd party verification were either ignored, WP:NOR'ed ("I can personally vouch that Bok Man Kim has XYZ), or directed towards non-functional websites, I began to get suspicious.  The last straw, was when I figured out that you not only own the website for the Bok Man Kim book, people were suppose to directly buy the book from you.
 * Since you're being frank and honest, I will as well. You lack credibility, not only because of your personal financial benefit from the article, but because you've vandalized past wiki articles.  These two factors were probably what finally pushed the deletion through.

Ed Parker
I'd go so far as to say that the article is pretty slim and unsubstantial, but it doesn't violate WP:BIO. Note that it contains an external link to a third-party source (IMDB) that is outside of sponsors of the activity. My "crusade" is not based upon whether I think an individual has contributed to the martial arts or not. It's based upon whether there are independent citations to back the claims. If you can find a similar citation for Bok Man Kim (as I have multiply repeated), I will be more than happy to remove the deletion request. Djma12 03:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC) If Ed Parker's page was written by one of his students selling his videos, it should be deleted as well. Be sure to have proof of what you're claiming, though, before you open the page up for Afd. Djma12 19:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)