User talk:Sadads/Archive January 2014-May 2014

A barnstar for you!

 * Have you considered joining the Wikicup?  Ruby  2010/  2013  19:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Why thank you ! That was unexpected, its just my normal approach to GAs. Glad it was of help, barnstars make great warm-fuzzies.
 * I have thought about Wikicup, and I don't do it largely because I don't need any more commitments/paperwork on wiki, especially with graduate classes keeping me busy. Keeping my commitments and logistics to in person things allows me to walk away from the computer more often and not feel overwhelmed. You caught me during Winter break, so I was responsive and active for the last week or so, but come a month from now, I will be less frequently around online (but will be doing more outreach and teaching 2 weeks on GLAM-Wiki in a graduate class), and don't need to be thinking about something I could/should be doing here :P I love Wikipedia, but I have already burned myself out once on here about 2 years ago, and don't want to do a repeat that long of a break from editing.
 * Thanks for the barnstar and wikicup offer though, and happy editing! Hopefully, we can collaborate more on novels articles (feel free to ping me when you need sources and read throughs, peer review, etc.), Sadads (talk) 19:45, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, a possible collaboration on Frederica can wait several months or more; there's no hurry on it (I don't want you to get burned out again!). That gives me time to stretch my wings on a few other Heyer novel articles, and to (of course) actually read Frederica. The Novelist article is very ambitious of you; I'm not sure I have the knowledgebase to contribute in a meaningful way, but if I think of anything to add, I will do so (or let you know about it). Thanks,  Ruby  2010/  2013  18:01, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

WPMILHIST
Hi Sadads, I was about to nominate WPMILHIST for discussion at WP:RfD (see that page for many other listings of CNR), but when looking up precedence I noticed that you were happy to delete WPASK at Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 May 13. WPMILHIST received 29 pageviews in the last 90 days, which I consider to be quite low - at 10 per month I assume it is just noise by bots/crawlers/etc rather than real people using it. If you'd prefer to have a community discussion, that is no worries at all. Thanks for your time. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:41, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi again, I have listed it for discussion on Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 January 16. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Meetups coming up in DC!
Hey!

You are invited to two upcoming events in DC:


 * Meetup at Capitol City Brewery on Saturday, January 25 at 6 PM. Please join us for dinner, drinks, socializing, and discussing Wikimedia DC activities and events. All are welcome! RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.
 * Art and Feminism Edit-a-Thon on Saturday, February 1 from Noon – 5 PM. Join us as we improve articles on notable women in history! All are welcome, regardless of age or level of editing experience. RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.

I hope to see you there!

(Note: If you do not wish to receive talk page messages for DC meetups, you are welcome to remove your username from this page.)

Harej (talk) 00:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014
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Disambiguation link notification for January 17
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Hi
I just want to say hello to you. I remember how we collaborated on the National Health Insurance Scheme of Ghana in my early days on WP. Impressed by how far you have gotten. Keep it up. CrossTempleJay   →  talk 16:27, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for popping by! I did a retrospective on some of my early edits a couple weeks back, and I ran across that work. Man, its been a while. You look like you have been rather productive as well :) We certainly both have been doing quite a bit for the project, and I think that little bit of support/collaboration that I had with early people I contacted, kept me around. Best wishes, and happy editing! Sadads (talk) 03:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Coming up in February!
Hello there!

Our February WikiSalon is coming up on Sunday, February 23. Join us at our gathering of Wikipedia enthusiasts at the Kogod Courtyard of the National Portrait Gallery with an optional dinner after. As usual, all are welcome. Care to join us?

Also, if you are available, there is an American Art Edit-a-thon being held at the Smithsonian American Art Museum with Professor Andrew Lih's COMM-535 class at American University on Tuesday, February 11 from 2 to 5 PM. Please RSVP on the linked page if you are interested.

If you have any ideas or preferences for meetups, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Meetup/DC.

Thank you, and hope to see you at our upcoming events! Harej (talk) 18:42, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Northern Virginia Task Force
Hi, I saw that you are a member of the Northern Virginia Task Force of WikiProject Virginia. I'm a new Wiki editor and am interested in contributing to this project/task force. I've lived in Prince William County and Washington, D.C. and would love to help out in anyway I can! Ctufarolo (talk) 19:31, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, great to hear from you! I am actually not in the area anymore, or active in that particular project, however, I can point you to the community! The organization Wikimedia DC is very active at organizing local events (if you look right above this message, you can see the most recent newsletter). Also, I would keep an eye out for local history or topics that you might be familiar with, and try to fill in the gaps. For example, the articles listed at List_of_National_Historic_Landmarks_in_Virginia and National Register of Historic Places listings in Virginia that need work, or have not been created (I noticed a few missing in the list for Prince William County. Also, I noticed that you are at American University. Are you in User:Fuzheado's class? If not, I would recommend contacting him. He is a great resource. Also, if you are looking for articles that have already been tagged as related to NOVA, I have added an assessment chart at WikiProject_Virginia/Northern_Virginia_Task_Force that should help you identify which articles are in poor condition (start and stub are low quality and need the most work). Hope that helps, Sadads (talk) 20:47, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you for your prompt reply and your help! I am currently in User:Fuzheado's class at American University and, through his course, am learning all about the Wiki editing process. I will definitely look into the articles you've referenced, thanks again for your help! Take care, Ctufarolo 21:33, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Michael de Angelo


A tag has been placed on Michael de Angelo requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Nomination of Cyr Myrddin, the Coming of Age of Merlin for deletion
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Files missing description details
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Frederick Freddies comment
Dear Mr. Sadads, this is FredericktheFreddy sending a message (since I could not get the email to work). I have joined Wikipedia to create an article on the ME-BASE comics, a series I developed at school.I would be happy if I could get instructions, as I have only been able to find out how to upload a file. I have not necessarily copyrighted the work, as I am only a teen. But if it is possible for me to create a page on this subject of mine with the overall reassurance the info will be safe until my novels have been published, I would be much obliged. If it is not possible to obligate my requests, please give me fair warning, and I will continue to contribute to Wikipedia with edits, FredericktheFreddy
 * Thanks for contacting. Wikipedia articles and content should focus on information that meets WP:Notability requirements, so that we provide information of interest to the public. I am unsure what ME-BASE is or if it meets those requirements. Could you provide a link to help me better understand what you are describing? We can talk about media uploads, once I better understand what it is you are trying to upload.
 * Also, on a more courtesy note, you added your comment to User:Sadads instead of the discussion page attached to the page at User talk:Sadads. Generally, we try to keep user interactions on talk pages, whether for articles or for the content itself. If you want to learn more see Help:Using talk pages Also, when leaving comments, make sure to sign the comment with four tildaes (i.e. ~ ). These tell the software to sign your name, the date, and time to the comment.
 * It would be great if you kept contributing, its definitely a good way to learn the ropes and understand what you want to do with the community. The best to start, I think, is working on articles that you are interested in, or if you don't know where to start, you can start exploring the community's processes via the "Help Out" section at Community portal or try the The Wikipedia Adventure which offers a fun and interactive way to learn the community. If you need help in general, you can always ask here or stop in at the WP:Teahouse. Happy editing, Sadads (talk) 16:07, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

edit summaries
Hi, Sadads. I noticed you made to The Great Gatsby. The edit's summary says, "delinking unneccesary novel links, replacing when appropriate using AWB" when actually you made a novel link. Please be careful to have correct edit summaries, especially when using AWB. Cheers, Jason Quinn (talk) 22:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it came up during a list of articles linking to novel, so I was delibrately fixing the initial link in leads, will fix description to be more explicit, Sadads (talk) 00:13, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I would just like to point out that the plural form of category is categories. Xanthoxyl &lt; 10:11, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Oy! Thanks . That was a silly late night typo, oops. I was so focused on making sure the contributions were valid, I missed that little detail, Sadads (talk) 14:24, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

William Blake
Could you remove either, its semi-protection or its PC? Its unneeded to have both. ©  Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 00:40, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
 * that was user error on my part. Did the interface change recently? That I just don't remember what it looks like, I haven't done page protection in a while, Sadads (talk) 01:57, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I think so, I've seen multiple pages semi and PC protected. This was strange as it lasted a year. ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 01:59, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

ME-BASE
Sadads, Hey FredericktheFreddy. Funny thing, I saw the talk page and all right after I typed my last message.Unfortunately I cannot send you any of my current work, as it is not copyrighted as already said. My name is Ethan Jackson, I am a teen living in Texas. I do not have access at this point to any way to copyright or publish my comics, novels, and other material, but I hope that they will be protected anyway. All of my work is from my own mind, and does not violate any copyrighting of other products. I wish to create an article as a biography and history of my author's life and what it is I have written. I see that I can make a profile on my User page. What if I put the gist of my article on that page, and you can overview it and tell me if it is okay to upload? P.S., what are the terms and conditions that others will have in editing my page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FredericktheFreddy (talk • contribs) 16:14, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi again . So you wish to create an article to publicize your own work? If that is the case, Wikipedia is not the right place for you. Wikipedia articles build on previous conversations from professionally published secondary sources to write the articles with Original Research, so if something hasn't been actively discussed it does not meet our WP:Notability requirements. Moreover, the Wikipedia community strongly recommends that you do not contribute to works in which you have a strong Conflict of interest.
 * Otherwise, if you are trying to publish your work, I would recommend exploring our List of self-publishing companies or consider building your own website, like a Wordpress blog/website. Wikipedia is trying to be an encyclopedia, not a publishing house.
 * However, if you are interested in creating encyclopedic content, I would strongly recommend trying out the WP:Wikipedia Adventure which offers a fun interactive way to learn what Wikipedia is all about. It can be a fun and exciting community, however, you need to remember that the content is supposed to be about items already of public interest, Sadads (talk) 16:52, 17 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Sadads, Incorrect. I do not wish to publish my work on Wikipedia. As previously implied, I am fully prepared to publish my novels and comics with a real publishing company when the time comes. I only wish to use Wikipedia to create a biography of the comics. However, you have answered my question by making me fully aware that currently uncopyrighted work can not be placed on Wikipedia until copyrighted. I thank you for what little help you have provided and sign off now. Expect me back to create an article when my work is published. Go ahead, wait a few years, go to a bookstore, and look for some novels with the name Ethan Jackson on it. I sincerely hope you enjoy them. FredericktheFreddy (talk) 15:41, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Novelist
Thank you Victuallers (talk) 16:02, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Women short story writers
I didn't create the category — it's existed since 2007. Certainly anyone who wants to do so can create the male equivalent anytime, but I don't particularly think I have a responsibility to jump on it right away just because I chose to add a partial batch of articles to a category that already existed... Bearcat (talk) 03:53, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * No worries. I think it's one of those categories that's mostly been flying under the radar; certainly it's not one that's ever really occurred to me to add to articles before, even though I've been a pretty frequent editor on several of the Canadian women writers I just added it to, and considering how significantly underpopulated it still is I think a lot of people can say the same :-) Bearcat (talk) 04:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, there's probably a lot more out there (I did my batch by doing a recursive list-comparison in AWB between and, and still found five or six women who were only in the short story writers category and had to be hotcatted instead.) It's probably not a job that anyone in their right mind would want to take on doing all at once, but I'll take a crack at another chunk soon. And I agree, splitting it out by country will probably be warranted in the future — given that it wasn't very well-populated, I didn't feel ready to go down that road just yet, but it will probably be a good future step. Bearcat (talk) 05:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Priscilla Galloway
I'll take a look at the Toronto Star and Globe and Mail databases when I get a chance, but those are the only databases I have personal access to besides what I can find on the web or what I can convince other people at WP:CANTALK to look up for me. Bearcat (talk) 00:03, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * No worries. If you find anything in a database, I have access to a number. I just don't know where to look for biographical information for Canadians... I haven't really done a look through reviews of her works to build out a list on the page. I was thinking that kind of critical reception might be worth building, Sadads (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

February 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014
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Your GA nomination of The French Lieutenant's Woman
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Your GA nomination of The French Lieutenant's Woman
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Wikipedia edit-a-thon at UNC-Chapel Hill
Hi Sadads!

I just learned that you are (were?) a Wikipedian in Residence at the Blake Archive. I'm a librarian at UNC and am planning our second edit-a-thon around the theme of African American history in North Carolina. The date is Sunday, March 30, 1:00 to 4:30. (Wikipedia page to come, but here's the page from last year). Are you still on campus? Would love to talk and see what you're up to in the Wikipedia world!

Cheers, Sodapopinski7 (talk) 16:50, 25 February 2014

DC Meetups in March
 Happy March!

Though we have a massive snowstorm coming up, spring is just around the corner! Personally, I am looking forward to warmer weather.

Wikimedia DC is looking forward to a spring full of cool and exciting activities. In March, we have coming up:


 * Evening WikiSalon on Wednesday, March 12 from 7 PM – 9 PM. Meet up with Wikipedians for coffee at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle! If you cannot make it in the evening, join us at our...
 * March Meetup on Sunday, March 23 from 3 PM – 6 PM. Our monthly weekend meetup, same place as last month. Meet really cool and interesting people!
 * Women in the Arts 2014 meetup and edit-a-thon on Sunday, March 30 from 10 AM – 5 PM. Our second annual Women in the Arts edit-a-thon, held at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Free lunch will be served!

We hope to see you at our upcoming events! If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page.

— Harej (talk) 05:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of The French Lieutenant's Woman
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Upcoming Wikimedia event in Lawrence Kansas!
James Michael DuPont (talk) 21:36, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Upcoming Wikimedia event in Lawrence Kansas!
Hi, I know you are not going to make it, but maybe you can share the event.

James Michael DuPont (talk) 21:36, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Small inquiry.
Nice of you to say hello yesterday on "Semiotics". I noticed that you might have more background than myself on finding Wikipedia data. My present thought was to prepare an edit dealing with the trends in the creation of FA articles on Wikipedia. It seems easy to get the stats on the number of FA articles that exist right now, but how do I find out how many there were 1 yr ago, 2 yr ago, 3 yr ago, etc. If you know how or can show me how to get one of then, say number of FA articles in 2010, then I could likely figure out how to get the rest. If this data is too hard to find, then just let me know its not easy to get. Sadads (talk) 20:10, 18 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FelixRosch (talk • contribs) 20:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad that you appreciated the welcome. I think what you are looking for is Featured_article_statistics. I hope that helps.
 * Also, make sure that you sign comments on user pages with four tildas (i.e. ~ ). This tells the software to sign your name and date after the comments. Feel free to contact me if you need any other help, and happy editing! Sadads (talk) 20:15, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * This was the exact info I was looking for on featured articles. While there I noticed there was a similar page for "good articles" as well which was useful. Would you happen to know if a similar page is available for "High importance article statistics," "Low importance article statistics," etc. The total number of Low importance article is growing so fast (over 2Million), that I was thinking of making an edit on the Wikipedia History page regarding estimates of the amount of editor effort needed to systemically improve existing Pages in general for them to move towards Good article status. If you know of any other related pages you could let me know about (I have the 2 pages for Featured and Good article stats, and I don't have them for A-level, B-level, C-level, etc, stat histories), it would be appreciated. (Last time I typed 4 tilde for some reason your id was unexpectedly printed out instead... maybe it will work correctly this time...) FelixRosch (talk) 18:16, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think there are published sets of importance information. I would poke around Version_1.0_Editorial_Team. The data does exist in the software somewhere, but I imagine it would require some creative programming and API culling. Here is a couple ways you could find what you are looking for:
 * Their is always checking through the history for the 1.0 template at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWP_1.0_bot%2FTables%2FOverallArticles&action=history and for older numbers at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AVersion_1.0_Editorial_Team%2FStatistics&action=history.
 * You might check out http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:English_Wikipedia_statistics, to see if you can find some related statistics or pages discussing those number.
 * Also, there might be something in the archive for Wikipedia Signpost.
 * However, be cautious on how you use that information on Wikipedia. If you add information onto the Wikipedia history article, make sure that you don't add WP:OR. Hope that helps, Sadads (talk) 18:29, 20 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello Sadads; Small update that someone seems to be deleting the nice section you had edited and expanded on "Quality control and peer assessment" at Wikipedia. There is also an administrative review on the person doing the deletes at this time. Your material looked like a nice edit and the deletion of your edit was unexplained. FelixRosch (talk) 14:49, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 22
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Re: Ecocriticism

 * British marxist critic Raymond Williams, for example, wrote a seminal critique of pastoral literature in 1973, The Country and the City, which spawned two decades of leftist suspicion of the ideological evasions of the genre and its habit of making the work of rural labour disappear even though Williams himself observed that the losses lamented in pastoral might be genuine ones, and went on to profess a decidedly green socialism.

I removed "Marxist" just as I would remove any other attempt to spoon feed the reader irrelevant material. This entire paragraph is problematic. "Two decades of leftist suspicion", is this some kind of joke? The only thing relevant here is his name and the title of the book. In fact there is nothing about Marxism anywhere in our article on the The Country and the City. This would be like referring to George W. Bush as a Republican in reference to his paintings, or to Leo Marx as a "socialist" in reference to his seminal work, The Machine in the Garden, even though Marx does not consider himself a socialist now, and the book has nothing to do with socialism. Viriditas (talk) 01:00, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not irrelevant information, but a standard concern in academic scholarly criticism. Marxist criticism is an established, a-political field based on the cultural critiques of Marx within literary and cultural studies that reads cultural materials as product of material culture. Williams helped establish the marxist critiques that created modern day Cultural studies. The work The Country and the City writes directly into that social critique, in which power structures in two different locals mirred in class conflict (a Marxist mode of reading history). Their is a distinct difference between the social lense of Marxist criticism and the political mechanism of Marxism that you are overlooking, hence the wikilink I added. I am going to re-add the comment and remove the leftist comment, Sadads (talk) 22:24, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

An exciting month of wiki events!
 Hello there,

I am pleased to say that April will be a very exciting month for Wikipedia in Washington, DC. We have a lot of different events coming up, so you will have a lot to choose from.

First, a reminder that our second annual Women in the Arts Edit-a-Thon will take place on Sunday, March 30 at the National Museum of Women in the Arts.

Coming up in April, we have our first-ever Open Government WikiHack with the Sunlight Foundation on April 5–6! We are working together to use open government data to improve the Wikimedia projects, and we would love your help. All are welcome, regardless of coding or editing experience. We will also be having a happy hour the day before, with refreshments courtesy of the Sunlight Foundation.

On Friday, April 11 we are having our first edit-a-thon ever with the Library of Congress. The Africa Collection Edit-a-Thon will focus on the Library's African and Middle East Reading Room. It'll be early in the morning, but it's especially worth it if you're interested in improving Wikipedia's coverage of African topics.

The following day, we are having our second annual Wiki Loves Capitol Hill training. We will discuss policy issues relevant to Wikimedia and plan for our day of outreach to Congressional staffers that will take place during the following week.

There are other meetups in the works, so be sure to check our meetup page with the latest. I hope to see you at some of these events!

All the best, James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 01:29, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:27, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 29
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Nicola Griffith edits
Thanks for the note. Ed Hall & I are working together to improve the article -- the new section is mostly his work, actually, but I put it into WP format. Best, Pete Tillman (talk) 16:39, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

"Wikipedia" Page edits.
Nice edits you placed on the "Wikipedia" Page last week. If I followed them correctly, you seemed to suggest that it made sense to consider (FA, GA, A) as a group, and as separate from unassessed start and stub articles. I did the arithmetic for these percentage totals and they come out as Top Class=.60% of all Wikipedia articles(.11FA + .03A +.46GA), while the unassessed start and stub articles are at a total of 90.29% (24.77Start + 54.33Stub + 11.19Unassesed), following a recent version of total page counts. It seems to suggest a very wide base of total articles with a very narrow funnel leading to the top class articles. The "funnel" ratio is about 150:1 when contrasting the broad base of total articles compared to the top class as you identified it. I still cannot find the history of Page Counts data at Wikipedia (other than FA/GA) and perhaps these statistics are not of general interest and not maintained. Those were useful comment edits you placed at the "Wikipedia" page. FelixRosch (talk) 20:08, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I am glad that you found that helpful. GA, A, and FA class content all are just varying degrees of peer review, with slightly more strenuous standards for quality as you look at them (and I haven't noticed a radically big difference in A vs GA). The quality funnel is a problem in the all of the academic studies I have seen of content as well. However, that just provides more motivation for people to participate as far as I can tell.
 * As for historical page count data, that is captured in the revision history of the Wikipedia 1.0 template at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWP_1.0_bot%2FTables%2FOverallArticles&action=history and for older numbers at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AVersion_1.0_Editorial_Team%2FStatistics&action=history . If you click through the old revisions, you can find the old numbers. Best of luck and happy editing, Sadads (talk) 23:43, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Those links above were quite useful and clever. Your comments regarding the "quality funnel" also were on target and I did not know if you had read them somewhere or was speaking directly from your experience. Using your ideas I was able to add a short edit on the "Wikipedia" page in the other Quality subsection on the future of Health-care edits following the phrasing format in your own edit there. Regarding the actual data tables in the links you provided above, they all looked good until I got to 19Feb2010 stats compared to the 9Oct2009 page where there is a change of table format and a sudden jarring growth of 2 million total articles and a sudden growth of 800 top-importance FA articles from 200! Did I miss something, or were those 4 months really that jarring in growth? It does not seem to match some of the separate graphs you had previously directed me to about the growth rates. FelixRosch (talk) 20:07, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment
Hello, I'm here onbehalf of WP:ORPHAN in which you are also a participant. So, we want your opinion to a WP:ORPHAN related matter. It is a proposal by. Please have a look here. Your opinion (i.e support, oppose etc) are very much appreciated there. Thank you. By Jim Cartar through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:02, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Post Captain novel by Patrick O'Brian
Sadads, why did you put a citation needed on Allusion to Events in History section in Post Captain (novel)? The full story is told in the Wikipedia articles linked in the short text of the new section. The same links had been in the Plot summary, which was getting overfull of links to real historical events, so I made the new section for what is real and what is fiction. What sort of citation do you expect, beyond the information in the two Wikipedia articles? Thanks for reading the changes, BTW. I clicked to watch your page so will look for the response here. --Prairieplant (talk) 00:43, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It needs a citation because you are interpreting the historical inspiration for the events in the novel, to be attributable to a particular event. This kind of real world context isn't necessarily "true" connections, but rather requires a knowledge of O'Brian's intentions and scholarly context. You need a citation that verifies, that this is the source of his interpretation through either the preface to the novel, one of the biographies or one of the interpretive books. I am pretty sure that you can make this assertion (when I was doing O'Brian research, I saw a number of such interpretations), but you need to verify that connection, Sadads (talk) 01:06, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Sadads, I added the biography of the true captain of the Lively which source an 1804 publication that says he was on board his ship -- marking Aubrey on the ship as fiction, and quite rightly. The biography is handily on line. Then I boldly deleted your Citation needed, perhaps prematurely. Your other point about it being the same action, well, a previous editor made that link, I just moved to what I think is a more appropriate section. The prior editor simply linked to the Wikipedia article. The wikipedia article Action of 5 October 1804 makes the connection of the real to the fictional, in both the C S Forester novel and the Patrick O'Brian novel. Does that suffice? --Prairieplant (talk) 01:46, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, this has bothered me in the Wikipedia articles for the Aubrey Maturin novels, that I have read so far. Prior editors put an impressive list of books about O'Brian and the series, put a fair amount of wiki links in a battle-oriented Plot summary, and avoid altogether putting in line citations to the page of the weighty references that supports the link from reality to a base for fiction. For the first novel, there hangs a short section that seems to claim the whole novel is Cochrane's life and naval missions fictionalized. Flagged since 2008, a long time. I thought it might be better to reproduce the author's introduction, where O'Brian describes the many sources for his novel, and says no fiction could outdo the reality of the early 19th century Royal Navy and its personalities (my rough memory, which is never word for word). I have read the novels, going through them again, but this is my first time to see what is on Wikipedia for them. I trust the lists of ships, but miss those in line citations, and miss the actual plot of the story, which is far more than segues from action to action. --Prairieplant (talk) 02:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I can agree with all of the critiques for the Aubrey-Maturin novel pages. I tried, a few years back when I was reading all of the scholarship on O'Brian, to refocus some of the content and spent time working on the page Aubrey–Maturin_series. However, the relative deficit of easily accessible critiques of the novel in academic databases, and the obsession many of the companion books have with trivia, makes them hard to rewrite. This is precisely why we need to add more references to the allusions discussions, that are about his process or historian/critic assessment of the history he is writing about, rather than simply to other Wikipedia articles or assuming that these allusions are "truths". If you decide to take up rewriting one of the pages (I think Post-Captain would be great for this, there are relatively more reviews, and plenty of discussions in secondary matreials), I can pull sources via academic databases or interlibrary loan if you need. I think I might go back and read some of the novels this summer, I am doing work on food, representations of British culture, and adaptation into film. These novels are great for all those topics, Sadads (talk) 14:31, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Sadads, my local library did a cost saving measure that cuts me off from the newspaper reviews of novels, just when I was set to learn how to use it. On-line without benefit of the library, I find blogs of course, and a good New York Times review from the 1990s, (Mark Horowitz, Patrick O'Brian's Ship Comes, May 16, 1993 In http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/10/18/specials/obrian-comesin.html) and Paris review interview with the author in the same decade, (Stephen Becker, Interviews: Patrick O'Brian, The Art of Fiction No. 142, Summer 1995, http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/1628/the-art-of-fiction-no-142-patrick-obrian) done before his true biographical past was revealed. I suppose that does not affect the author's comments on how he did his writing, from using quotes from so many languages & authors in the mouth of Stephen Maturin to using real naval history. He does claim to use real naval battles and says he cannot make up a fleet action. He does move them in place and time if it makes his story better. So I guess I do not see that a well-identified battle was improperly linked to the real one. My point with that battle was to make clear that he (PO) gave Aubrey the satisfaction of that fleet action with a fantastic crew, stealing the Spanish gold, and did it on the same date, but that the real captain did not go off to Parliament in real life, which is why the link belongs in allusions and not in the Plot summary. Okay, got that? (my brain is seeming convoluted, hope you can follow it.) On the other hand, I believe the ship Polychrest was a complete fiction, which the ship list fails to note (well it does now, I wrote sloop of fiction). I found that in a blog, I know, not a valid Wikipedia reference, but it was persuasive, even suggesting the two other ships on which the Polychrest was likely based. If you have access to academic databases, that will put you way ahead of me. I think I will be happy to find a serious reviewer who is not raving happy, or if so, explains why in simple language. Another blog (all I can find, sorry) made clear why the author's stated love of Jane Austen's writings shows up in Post Captain, by quoting a line seen to be Austen-like. Well I am getting wordy. My first step will be to take out comments not backed up by a source (the "everyone knows" sort of remark). And to have the Plot summary be more than fleet actions, because the character development is a huge part of these novels. If they were only fleet actions, he would not have found so much success. I guess I am taking out my frustration with my local library on you, not really fair.  --Prairieplant (talk) 02:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Backlog drive
 Hello  Sadads ,

WikiProject Orphanage is holding a  month long Backlog Elimination Drive to de-orphan articles which have orphan tags!

The goal is to eliminate the backlog of orphan articles. There are currently 0 articles which have orphan tags. The drive is running from April 12, 2014 to May 12, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all editors participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive. To add your name in the participants list click here.

So start de-orphaning articles! Click here to see the list of articles need de-orphaning. Visit Suggestions for how to de-orphan an article to know more! Thanks. Opt-out Instructions by on behalf of WikiProject Orphanage through   MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:21, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 14:52, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 21
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Two edit-a-thons coming up!


Hello there!

I'm pleased to tell you about two upcoming edit-a-thons:


 * This Tuesday, April 29, from 2:30 to 5:30 PM, we have the Freer and Sackler edit-a-thon. (Sorry for the short notice!)
 * On Saturday, May 10 we have the Wikipedia APA edit-a-thon, in partnership with the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center, from 10 AM to 5 PM.

We have more stuff coming up in May and June, so make sure to keep a watch on the DC meetup page. As always, if you have any recommendations or requests, please leave a note on the talk page.

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 20:39, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Porius: A Romance of the Dark Ages

 * Glad I could help! And thank you for the barnstar! Sorry I haven't been around too much to help do more deep editing and feedback. I finish my masters in a couple weeks and hope to be around a little bit more often then (And plan to expand articles like Novelist and push a couple more articles through GA, like Regeneration (novel)). Hope everything is going well! Sadads (talk) 14:52, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks for assessing Owen Glendower. All the best with the studies. Rwood128 (talk) 11:04, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sadads,
You may not remember me, Georgiasouthernlynn, but we share an enduring love for the novel. You have helped me on several articles, and I respect your opinion, so I have a request.

In collaboration with another editor, I have written an article on Vanna Bonta, a speculative fiction writer who also voices feature films. She had a role in Beauty and the Beast, for instance.

It's in a sandbox, and I am wondering whether you would mind doing a formal or informal review of the article before I move it to the encyclopedia.

I became interested in Bonta's writing this year when I read her novel Flight, so this article is a labor of love for me and for Italstudio who may have answered a call for help that I placed on the Italian Wikipedia's Vanna Bonta page.

In researching the article, I learned that an article on the subject was previously published on Wikipedia, but it was deleted. I found this a little surprising, because the Italian Vanna Bonta article is in good standing as are the Vanna Bonta articles on the Spanish, German, and Japanese Wikipedias. The arguments on behalf of deletion mostly said things like "Well, sure there's media coverage, but she's not that famous" and "I've never heard of her" and "She probably wrote it herself" and then, in the same discussion, "Her agent wrote it."

None of these arguments look like to me like they are solidly rooted in Wikipedia policy, though I have to admit I never get involved in deletion debates, so the way they are negotiated remains something of a mystery to me.

Feel free to say no. If you have time to review the article, it's here: Vanna Bonta

I appreciate any advice you can give me,

Lynn

Update: There is now a third contributor to the article. By the time I finish this message, possibly more.--Georgiasouthernlynn (talk) 01:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I definitely remember encountering you! (Can't remember doing what however). Glad to see you still around. In response to the deletion concerns: I would focus on making the article less of a list of achievements, and more of a analytic survey of opinions about those achievements weighing all the concerns. I made some comments at User_talk:Georgiasouthernlynn/sandbox/VB, and will find my way back sometime next week or the week after. Give me a ping if I am not timely, Sadads (talk) 02:42, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Meet up with us


Happy May!

There are a few meetups in DC this month, including an edit-a-thon later this month. Check it out:
 * On Thursday, May 15 come to our evening WikiSalon at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle. If you're available Thursday evening, feel free to join us!
 * Or if you prefer a Saturday night dinner gathering, we also have our May Meetup at Capitol City Brewing Company. (Beer! Non-beer things too!)
 * You are also invited to the Federal Register edit-a-thon at the National Archives later this month.

Come one, come all!

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 20:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)