User talk:Sage1200

AfC notification: Draft:CASisDEAD has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:CASisDEAD. Thanks! Robert McClenon (talk) 02:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: CASisDEAD (January 1)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robert McClenon was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Robert McClenon (talk) 02:18, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: CASisDEAD (January 2)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by RadioFan was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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RadioFan (talk) 04:32, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:CASisDEAD has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:CASisDEAD. Thanks! LaMona (talk) 02:02, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: CASisDEAD (January 4)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SwisterTwister was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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SwisterTwister  talk  07:12, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: CASisDEAD (January 15)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Wiae was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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/wiae ★  /tlk  04:15, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: CASisDEAD (January 16)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Tokyogirl79 was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, Sage1200. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, please:


 * avoid editing or creating articles related to you and your circle, your organization, its competitors, projects or products;
 * instead propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the request edit template);
 * when discussing affected articles, disclose your COI (see WP:DISCLOSE);
 * avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
 * exercise great caution so that you do not violate Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  12:05, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Draft article
I returned to Draft:CASisDEAD to continue editing and I saw that you reverted my edits, which included comments I'd made to the article and my decline. While you can revert content (although this is unadvisable given that the promotional tones) you cannot remove someone's comments on a draft. The only place you can remove comments is your own talk page. Now I've posted a lot of statements to the draft article, but I'm going to summarize these here for clarity's sake - also to make sure that you see this.


 * 1) First off, the article was extremely promotional. This was the primary reason the article was declined repeatedly at AfC. It was extremely full of promotional content, so much that it required a complete and total re-write to remove everything. There is almost no chance that this version of the article will be accepted via AfC and if by some chance it was, it would almost certainly be speedy deleted as unambiguous spam. Even if you didn't intend for it to be promotional, at best it read like a fan blog or personal page for CAS. Wikipedia is not a place to promote the person and all articles must follow WP:NPOV guidelines - there's no WP:OWNERSHIP of pages and they should not be seen as an extension of the person's website.
 * 2) While editing the article I noticed that large portions were either unsourced or were written as if it was your personal interpretation of the artist. Due to WP:BLP policies, content about a living person must be backed up with a reliable source that explicitly states the claims made in the article. There were also some sources that did not actually back up the claims in the article as they were written, which I also had to remove.
 * 3) During this process I removed several sources that would not fall in line with WP:RS. I left some that were questionable, but the ones I removed would not be able to show notability for the performer. Of the ones that remained, only two were solidly usable. Artist bios and AfC drafts are two of the most frequently challenged page types on Wikipedia, so sourcing needs to be very strong. I do believe that CAS is notable, but I'd like to see more sourcing along the lines of this source before accepting it. Most of the time though, I just used repeated cites, so the citations are still there, but rather than repeatedly put down a new citation I gave a shortcut that links to the first one to show how frequently it's used. This is the preferred way to repeatedly cite something.
 * 4) You also listed a lot of things that Wikipedia would consider WP:INDISCRIMINATE data or otherwise be considered relatively irrelevant as it pertains to Wikipedia. By this I mean that you give a lengthy list of people involved with CAS and also wrote a memorial section for one of his crew members. Wikipedia is not a place to memorialize someone and it's generally assumed that a performer will work with a large crew. Unless there are RS that repeatedly cite these members, there's no real need to list them all individually.
 * 5) Hotlinking to sale pages and personal websites in an article is highly discouraged, especially as this is usually seen as promotional. I also removed the long list of external links, as Wikipedia typically only lists those if the person is extremely well known on that website. These links should be in the performer's official website anyway, so they'd be considered redundant.
 * 6) Reverting to a promotional version of a page does not give off the impression that you're here to collaborate. While you didn't ask for my help, I gave it and my edits are based on policy. It's unlikely that another person coming into the draft article would try to help, especially if there's a history of someone offering you help and you refused it in favor of a very specific version of the page.
 * 7) Part of my hesitation on accepting the edited version of the article is that I want to make sure that you're not going to go back and try to revert to the promotional version of the article. As stated above, the draft had promotional and unsourced content, but it also contained material written in a very casual tone, like it was written by a fan or by the performer himself. None of this is acceptable on Wikipedia and I want to make sure that you won't try to re-add problematic content in the future.
 * 8) Given your edits, it looks extremely likely that you have a conflict of interest. I'm also mildly suspicious that you might be the performer himself, as you uploaded the cover of one of his mixtapes as your own work. You need to be transparent about this and this makes it even more important that the article be neutrally written. A promotional article written by a COI editor who only wants a specific, promotional version is unlikely to get their article accepted.

Now you can ignore my posts here and on the draft page and revert my changes to the article, as long as you leave my comments on the draft. However I will say that this will decrease your chances of getting the article accepted because of the above problems and it's very unlikely that any other incoming editor will offhand help with the article unless you specifically ask for help. Even then there will be some reticence since they want to make sure that you'll actually be receptive. I hate that all of this sounds so harsh, but I need to make sure that you understand what's going on here. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  09:07, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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2.218.95.125 (talk) 13:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC) thankyou for your very helpful comments 😊

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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2.218.95.125 (talk) 13:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC) thankyou for your very helpful comments 😊

Removing templates
Please do not remove Miscellany for deletion notices from pages or remove other people's comments in Miscellany for deletion pages. Doing so won't stop the discussion from taking place. You are, however, welcome to comment about the proposed deletion on the appropriate page. Thank you.
 * I'm aware that an IP removed the MfD template, but given that you have a history of removing my comments I think that it's likely that this is either yourself or someone you know that you've asked to remove the template. I'm going to warn you flat out: continuing to act the way you have can lead to you getting blocked. I took this to MfD because I wanted to give you the chance to correct the article and show good faith, but so far you don't seem to have any other interest other than promoting CAS. If your goal was to make him look good on here, you've managed to do the opposite. Things like this reflect extremely poorly on the person you're trying to promote, partially because we've had people come on here to write about themselves or ask people to do it for them. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  14:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm actually just going to tag this for speedy as spam. You seem to only want to have a very specific, promotional version of the page. This type of page will never pass and I have to be blunt: trying to revert my actions in the hopes that someone else will approve it is a waste of your time. I hate that this is so harsh, but I need to make sure that you understand what you're doing here. I'm not sure if you're just not getting it or if you're trolling at this point, but I want to think that you're just a young fan that thinks that they're doing one of their favorite artists a favor by doing this. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  14:23, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Sage1200 (talk) 14:53, 20 January 2016 (UTC) I am reporting you for your highly unethical behaviour. You appear to confuse your role as a voluntary editor with the arbitrary use of rules to suit your rather fragile ego.

The fact that you persist in stalking this page which is clearly evidenced by your determination to put it up for speedy deletion twice; your outrage that your arbitrary edits were reveresed; your completely untrue allegations that this page is PR is highly worrying.

YOUR BEHAVIOUR shows in fact that you lack neutrality in your job as editor. And you use editing as a tool to exercise highly ethical behaviour.

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to the submission and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Sage1200 (talk) 15:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC) I am reporting you for your highly unethical behaviour. You appear to confuse your role as a voluntary editor with the arbitrary use of rules to suit your rather fragile ego.

The fact that you persist in stalking this page which is clearly evidenced by your determination to put it up for speedy deletion twice; your outrage that your arbitrary edits were reveresed; your completely untrue allegations that this page is PR is highly worrying.

YOUR BEHAVIOUR shows in fact that you lack neutrality in your job as editor. And you use editing as a tool to exercise highly unethical behaviour

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to the submission and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Sage1200 (talk) 15:39, 20 January 2016 (UTC) I wish to report Tokyogirl79 for the following:

I am reporting you for your highly unethical behaviour. You appear to confuse your role as a voluntary editor with the arbitrary use of rules to suit your rather fragile ego.

The fact that you persist in stalking this page which is clearly evidenced by your determination to put it up for speedy deletion twice; your outrage that your arbitrary edits were reveresed; your completely untrue allegations that this page is PR is highly worrying.

ADVICE from other editors has been taken on board. The use of adjectives & promotional material has been removed. This has been completely overlooked by you solely on the basis that your advice was not implemented. This is not neutral, fair editing on your part, but highly suggestive of ego-driven behaviour.

YOUR BEHAVIOUR shows in fact that you lack neutrality in your job as editor. And you use editing as a tool to exercise highly unethical behaviour.

All information in the page is to provide relevant information about the artist: history; the music released; the use of a specific Hashtag; the concepts behind the artist's identity & music.

Tokyogirl79 seems to have made it her personal mission to stalk this page because her suggestions were not implemented. This is very bizarre behaviour.

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Sage1200 (talk) 15:52, 20 January 2016 (UTC) Hi Tokyogirl79 I've read your response and I will implement changes but then I will resubmit the article & I wish for a new editor to look at the page to see if it it's eligible for publication. I feel this is fair. Cheers
 * That's fair, but I need to stress that your best bet at getting the article accepted would be to have it look similar to the version I wrote. AfC articles and musician articles are given a lot of scrutiny on Wikipedia and they're among the most commonly deleted articles on Wikipedia. You cannot have unsourced or promotional material on Wikipedia. I think that your best bet here would be to use my version of the article as a starting point and then to re-add material in as you find reliable sourcing that backs up that material and shows how it wouldn't be considered indiscriminate data. I'm still willing to help you with this and my goal from the start was to get the article into a state where it would pass guidelines. I'm not against things like the themes section, but you would need to back this up with RS. The easiest way to accomplish this is to find statements by CAS that back up these points, however they would have to explicitly state the claims. Sometimes you can get reviews that can accomplish the same, but it's usually better to get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  15:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Sage1200 (talk) 16:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC) Thankyou for removing the 'speedy deletion order'. I just read your comments & I will take your suggestions. Is it possible for you to remove the 'deletion order' per se, so that I can resubmit with the new edit? Cheers

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Sage1200 (talk) 17:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC) H Tokyogirl79 I would like to submit your version of the CASisDEAD article but I don't know how to submit. Please would you submit your version. Thanks.

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Sage1200 (talk) 17:03, 20 January 2016 (UTC) H Tokyogirl79 I would like to submit your version of the CASisDEAD article but I don't know how to submit. Please would you submit your version. I am not affiliated with performer in any way. Thanks.
 * Actually, I'll just go ahead and accept it. I do think that he's likely notable, at least enough to merit an article. There's no need for it to sit at AfC. I also have no problem with you adding in some information as you find sourcing - you just need to find sourcing that fits Wikipedia's guidelines. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  17:11, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: CASisDEAD has been accepted
<div style="border:solid 1px #57DB1E; background:#E6FFE6; padding:1em; padding-top:0.5em; padding-bottom:0.5em; width:20em; color:black; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-left: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> CASisDEAD, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  17:11, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=CASisDEAD help desk] .
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