User talk:Sandstein/Archives/2021/April

Philosopher's view on Meat
Dear Sandstein. I have recently edited the Meat article, and I explained my rationale on the edit summary briefly, and on the talk page more profoundly. I see you have reverted the changes and provided a brief rationale on your edit summary, I believe that due to timing you have missed the talk page comments, in which I explain why I think my sources are secondary, not primary.

In the future I will make sure to prepare the talk page comment in advance so I can publish the edit and talk page comments simultaneously to avoid this. In the meantime, I hope you can read my comments and await your commentary on the subject.

Regards, Tomás.--TZubiri (talk) 23:41, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks, I'll reply at Talk:Meat.  Sandstein   09:40, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

"Halo (PC Game)" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Halo (PC Game). The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 6 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 12:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Can you assist at Talk:ByteDance
Hi Sandstein. I recently made a proposal at Talk:ByteDance for a significant change to the ByteDance article, but I've had little success encouraging other editors to evaluate my proposal and implement it. I'm prevented from being WP:BOLD due to my COI and the proposal is extensive enough that the COI edit request process is not an appropriate avenue. I noticed that you recently added some content to the article on TikTok (which is owned by ByteDance) and that you appear to be an experienced and helpful admin, so I'm hoping that you can spare a few minutes to look at my proposal and implement it to the extent you feel is appropriate. Thanks a lot, JatBD (talk) 13:07, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Large beer
I hope you had a large beer or similar after closing the Matt Gaetz AfD. That was a really tricky one, and I think you summed it up very well. Thanks. --- Possibly (talk) 22:53, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Frances Street Squats
If you read the comments that were made thoroughly that didn't have !vote, I think it's pretty clear indication that the article does not pass notability even though if you were to just look at !votes, "no consensus" seems reasonable. Graywalls (talk) 07:58, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , please link to the article or discussion you refer to.  Sandstein   10:09, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:Articles_for_deletion/Frances_Street_Squats_(2nd_nomination) The points made by Uncle G, who inspected the book referenced by Rhododendrite that it has a whole chapter dedicated to Frances Street Squats, but Uncle G indicated that these contents are vastly based on direct quotes from the squatters themselves invalidating the source as "independent". So while they didn't make !vote, on the merit of WP:ORGIND, it makes the source fail. Consensus isn't just about tallying up delete vs keep, is it? So I think it's quite compelling that this particular article ought to be delete Graywalls (talk) 10:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , that's a valid argument, but it didn't convince enough people for a consensus in favor of deletion.  Sandstein   10:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Gaetz redirect
was a particularly cool-headed and sensible AfD close. I admire it a lot &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 20:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Keep result
How was the result of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/In My Lifetime: A Presentation of the Nuclear World Project keep? It only had delete votes. SL93 (talk) 14:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , that was a misclick, sorry. Now fixed.  Sandstein   15:28, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

request for userfying of Europe Engulfed
Hi, could you please put a copy of Europe Engulfed into my userpace, thanks. It was deleted at Articles for deletion/Europe Engulfed. Herostratus (talk) 07:56, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , sorry, I don't undelete articles, but you can ask at WP:REFUND.  Sandstein   07:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * OK no problem thanks. Herostratus (talk) 21:43, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Deletion Edwise International Page
It has come to our attention that our page on Wikipedia has been deleted (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwise_International). We would like to understand what the process for restoration would be and any further suggestions you have that will enable us to meet the Wikipedia requirements.1807puneet (talk) 07:04, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , because you have a conflict of interest, see WP:COI, you should not attempt to restore the article about your company (which is not "your page", see WP:OWN).  Sandstein   08:06, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Deletion of Michael McMahon (Filmmaker)
I worked hours on this page and it was incredibly accurate. Can you please explain why you needed to delete it? Can you instead help me improve it to your standards?
 * Please link to what this concerns.  Sandstein   22:15, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McMahon_(filmmaker) 38.88.102.79 (talk) 19:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, there's plenty of explanation why the article was deleted at Articles for deletion/Michael McMahon (filmmaker).  Sandstein   21:05, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Minor request re Articles for deletion/Dabney Donovan
I like User:Rtkat3's suggestion for a redirect to a list. Would you mind restoring the article and then just redirecting it there per SOFTDELETE? TIA. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:58, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , sorry, I don't undelete articles, but you are free to create the redirect nonetheless.  Sandstein   07:01, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I was told a similar thing from about Googam one time and I had to recreate a link to his section on the List of monsters in Marvel Comics page. --Rtkat3 (talk) 13:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , I don't understand the need for making us jump the bureaucratic hoops. Hey, Rtkat3, have you thought about applying for adminship? Then you could undelete stuff for SOFTDELETE yourself :) Anyway, if you ask for this to be restored for redirecting, I'd support it. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:24, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , it was you who nominated the article for deletion, which implies deletion of the history. That's also what consensus resulted in. This prevents undeletion of the history, which is also not necessary to create a redirect. If you wanted to make a redirect while retaining the redirect history, you should simply have redirected the article, instead of nominating it for AfD.  Sandstein   07:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Where would one request to have an undeletion for redirecting? What would it take to be an administrator? I'm just asking here. --Rtkat3 (talk) 15:50, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , as noted above, you can create a redirect without undeletion. For your other question, see WP:RFA.  Sandstein   15:53, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , How can I nominate an article for SOFTDELETion by redirecting? The topic may become notable one day, and so restoring it with history should not be a hassle. At the same time, just BOLDly redirecting it does not seem proper to me as it is a form of stealthy deletion where nobody else, even the creator, is properly notified. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:29, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , you cannot. On Wikipedia, deletion means deletion, history gone, poof, choir invisible, etc. If you don’t want that, don‘t nominate pages for deletion. Nothing prevents you from boldly redirecting pages insted, but of course anybody can revert that back, and then you need to talk that out.  Sandstein   05:02, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Asking a question
Hello! Hope you're alright. I was creating a page for Orbit Culture band but the old page got deleted about 2 years ago due to lack of references. This new one I created has reliable references but since the old one was already removed, I used a new title like this: Orbit Culture (band). here is the draft for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Orbit_Culture_(band) I'd appreciate it if you could look into this new one and replace it with the old one. Here is the old page that got removed 2 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Orbit_Culture It's written that "no further edits should be made to this page." so I made a new article for that. If there's anything I should do to replace the old one with this new article, let me know. --LastRaven77 (talk) 16:48, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , as the AfD nominator, could you take a look at whether this can be recreated?  Sandstein   16:52, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


 * This is an odd case. Subsequent to the AFD, the article was re-created in draft space, accepted, and then speedily deleted. I see I even contributed a little bit to that second incarnation by removing a junk citation.


 * your contribution history as well as this comment by the creator of the original article, and the fact that was created soon afterward, suggests that you and  are the same person. If that is the case, would you confirm that you have abandoned the older account?


 * Also, I must ask, what is your association with the band? The fact that the draft is full of unverified claims with no citations indicates that you are privy to information that has not been published in reliable sources, suggesting an association with the band. You need to declare this openly.


 * Besides getting coverage, what criterion of WP:BAND does this band meet? Given that the albums are self-released, they get no radio airplay, they are not signed to a label (just "making plans to sign to a label"), they have no independently notable band members, etc. I am not seeing evidence of notability other than recognition in publications devoted to that niche of music.


 * The article needs trimming and removal of self-published sources like Dead Rhetoric. As for moving it to mainspace, my view is that it has some decent sources, but the draft is far from being ready. It would be best to let the review process run its course. Pinging the only person who voted 'keep' in Articles for deletion/Orbit Culture. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm the same person and abandoned my old account. I'm just a fan who's trying to do them a favor (they didn't ask me though, It's my own choice to try and make them a page here and just got their permission for it).

If you look into the new article, you can see I mentioned they're working with Seek & Strike label for their latest album and they've been mentioned in pages like: Revolver (magazine), Blabbermouth.net, Metal Storm, Metal Hammer, etc...

They've already had a tour with Rivers of Nihil and Black Crown Initiate in 2019 and they'll be heading to a tour with Thy Art Is Murder by the end of the 2021. If you fully read the article, I mentioned all these there.

I tried to create a page for them in 2018 and it's 2021 now so many things have changed and they're more famous now. All I'm asking is another chance for this page, please look into the article and references one by one I'm sure you'll find some reliable references this time. --LastRaven77 (talk) 19:59, 14 April 2021 (UTC) Pinged, so here I am. Yes, I voted to keep two years ago, but the sources I found were shown to be very low quality, accepting contributions from bands rather than writing critical reviews about bands. But now in 2021 it looks like the band has attracted more notice, with revews from Revolver (this is significant), Blabbermouth, Distorted Sound, Dead Press, Infrared Magazine, Front View magazine, Knotfest and more. I think there's enough here to support an article about the band. Binksternet (talk) 22:50, 14 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks. As I said, the draft needs cleaning up, removing unsourced assertions and so forth. Then it can be submitted for review. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:35, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

would you tell me which sources should be removed so I'll clean up the draft? --LastRaven77 (talk) 05:07, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Deletion of article Sri_Ramswaroop_Memorial_College_of_Engineering_and_Management_Lucknow
I just noticed that this article has been deleted by you. When I tried looking into the Articles for deletion/Shri Ramswaroop Memorial College of Engineering and Management, Lucknow, I noticed that the author of the article was not notified about this listing, also, may be there was no notification on article's talk page. Is this correct?--115.99.178.96 (talk) 17:15, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know.  Sandstein   18:04, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't you be aware of these details and take them into consideration while taking important actions like deletion of articles?--115.99.133.195 (talk) 12:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * No, my job is to determine whether there is consensus to delete in the AfD discussion.  Sandstein   14:15, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * To clarify, our deletion policy does not require that anybody be personally notified about a deletion discussion. That's because nobody owns an article; see WP:OWN. But all deletion requests are visible in the article itself and are therefore apparent to anybody who reads the article or has the article on their watchlist.  Sandstein   14:17, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Apparently, there was no notification on article's talk page. Can you check the logs?--115.99.222.139 (talk) 04:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * No, because for the reason noted above any talk page notification would be immaterial.  Sandstein   15:54, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * So, the article can be deleted without any notification on article-page/talk-page/etc. Really, this sort of silent deletion is allowed? Anybody who cares about the article or who may be able to improve it will not know unless the article is deleted.--27.7.25.82 (talk) 12:10, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * No, a notification in the text of the article itself is required and did occur on 04:42, 24 March 2021.  Sandstein   12:12, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that there was notification on the page, because I don't think so.--115.99.215.64 (talk) 06:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
 * There was. I think I have adequately responded to your concerns and will not respond further.  Sandstein   06:56, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Michael McMahon (filmmaker) for deletion
Can you please confirm what was wrong with the page I created? 38.88.102.79 (talk) 22:05, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Please link to it.  Sandstein   04:56, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Conduct query
Hi. I note you closed an ANI with a warning to 7&6=thirteen "to avoid personal attacks". That user has accused me (and others) of "Acting as a coordinated group" subsequently modified to "Acting as a coordinated group, working in the same direction" to influence an AfD. Neither of which I find acceptable. As I have explained at Articles for deletion/Attack on HMS Invincible and in my edit summaries, I stand by all my edits but I'm willing to discuss any of these.

Just to confirm, I am not advocating a particular course of action. I am undoubtedly biased by what I see as a personal attack. However I want to draw your attention to potentially relevant behaviour following a warning for your own review and consideration. Thanks for your time. Mark83 (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks, but I currently don't have the time to review this further.  Sandstein   09:49, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Not copyright violations
You removed a synopsis I wrote and accused me of copyright violations - but it doesn't compute. You claim that the synopsis removed |here was taken from |here but a simple glance at the page shows this isn't true. What was taken from that page is in the reception chapter, in quotes, and credited. (Edit - I see where some similarities in the very beginning (two sentences) of the Desolation synopsis may not be rewritten enough, but it is not a copy in any case. This in not true of Bone Shard). TMagen (talk) 10:09, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , see WP:CLOP. You copied whole sentences and turns of phrases, which is a copyright violation. In the first example, from, this is no longer apparent since somebody has now removed the text you copied from that wiki. But your copyright violation that I removed here can still be seen here. For example, among many other examples, you copied the first two sentences verbatim, without marking them as a quotation: "It has been two months since Mahit Dzmare and Three Seagrass foiled an attempted military coup on Teixcalaan—though they may have started a war to do it. Dzmare is back on her native Lsel Station, among her people but unsure if she still belongs there."
 * Your message leads me to conclude that you do not understand copyright or that you do not intend to abide by Wikipedia's copyright policy. This puts Wikipedia into legal jeopardy. I am therefore blocking your user account until you can convince myself or another administrator that you understand and will comply with copyright rules.  Sandstein   10:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Lesley Ugochukwu
Hello, I allowed myself to recreate this page, as it now unambiguously reaches WP:FOOTY, as per stated in the article.

But I wanted to ask, as you were the one who deleted it the last time, could you please restore the past versions, as I think there where a few element I could use for the present version?

Thanks in advance, --Coco (talk) 15:29, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , sorry, I don't undelete articles.  Sandstein   17:03, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, I didn't know. Do you literally can't do it, or do you prefer not to for whatever reason?
 * Anyway, it seems a bit useless to go trough a WP:RFU just to restore previous versions of an existing article, so I'll probably leave it like that.
 * Thanks anyway, --Coco (talk) 17:21, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I want to be investigated
Greetings Sandstein, Im sorry to jump into your space like this. I know you have alot on your table but please look into this.

A few days ago I created a page and an admin moves it to draft space citing suspicion of payment. I stated it wasn't a paid article and gave my reasons.

This is the point that concerned me; She said "I have nabbed you". That the article I wrote is linked to a non notable article I wrote earlier which was also deleted hence I must have been paid.

Now, the article she is referring to was written 5 years ago. It was flagged for not being a notable article. You presided over this and the article was deleted under due process. So this admin is saying that article that was deleted 5 years ago for not being notable is related to this one hence I must have been paid. Instead of putting it up for deliberation by other admins like yourself she tucked it away in draftspace and placed a sockpuppetting warning on me.

I don't know how the justice system works in Wikipedia,also I don't know all the technical terms. I'm just an ordinary writer of a particular niche. I wish to submit myself to superiors like you for proper investigation based on her accusation. If this is not the appropriate channel for such i beg you to assist me the procedure at your earliest convenience.

I strongly believe this admin is either overstepping her boundaries or have a personal grudge with the subject of the article, or both. Either way, I would like more admins to make this decision before I'm satisfied. If I'm found guilty I'll do the needful. I believe in the system that has kept Wikipedia strong for many years now.

Regards DoctorNigeria (talk) 10:42, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , we don't have a justice system, or superiors. Admins are just people with some additional tools. Generally I advise you to proceed as described at WP:DR.  Sandstein   10:56, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll try. DoctorNigeria (talk) 11:17, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Time to close AFD
This article here Pro Wrestling Federation of Pakistan is an AFD that is in it's third relist after 7 days. I see that you relisted it once as well. I think that it's time to close it as I think that three times is the maximum that it can be listed for deletion. Davidgoodheart (talk) 20:28, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , an admin will deal with it in due course, don't worry.  Sandstein   21:00, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , and as a courtesy to others, please try to compose your message in one edit, not half a dozen. Thanks!  Sandstein   21:18, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Will do my best to do so! Davidgoodheart (talk) 21:23, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Stalin's Soviet Elections (1936-1950) and Impact
The close of this AfD seems quite unsatisfactory because, apart from the lack of clear consensus, there was the significant issue of merger and attribution. Please reconsider. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:41, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I have dealt with the attribution issue in line with WP:PATT by noting the original editor of the text merged into the Elections in the Soviet Union article. Number   5  7  11:34, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks, that's resolved then (another solution would be to delete the merged content as unsourced). I'm of the view that policy-informed consensus to delete was clear because the one "keep" opinion did not address the reasons for deletion.  Sandstein   11:48, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

You have been awarded 1 point for a solid AfD nomination pun
Articles for deletion/American Meat Science Association &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 13:38, 30 April 2021 (UTC)