User talk:Sarah777/Archive 33

Hola Sra Sarah
And happy weekend. I have been having a good time going through Irish town and village articles updating infoboxes, learning quite a bit. Unfortunately someone with a bot decided that they should do all of them at once. I had gotten to about 240 of 1100, the bot suddenly has done the rest, but I say "unfortunately" because it was very indiscriminate. It was the opposite of me or you or anyone with a caretaker's sense of these articles, many of which you started and added images to. So, I am letting you know personally what has happened and asking you to be on the lookout for a couple of things. Don't bother reverting though, another editor with a bot is attempting to repair the damage (see here), let's see how things play out.

It looks as though the bot calls every place a "Town" even though it may be a village, or suburb, or historic hill fort. And, it does not care if the coordinates are wrong, which was among the things I was checking for each place as I went through. Please check for those issues with a "living" review as you go about your editing routine. I will also post news of the bot edit issues at the Ireland project. If there are any articles or sections you see which you would like to draw my attention to for technical repairs, please leave me a note.

For you, here is a nice video which after an eighty seconds-long intro shows images of the course of the Danube, set to Strauss. Listening to and watching it reminds me of some of the moments I experience viewing your pictures as I go through these articles. Memory of 2001: A Space Odyssey creeps in, but that's to be expected, anyway Sarah I hope you enjoy the music. – Sswonk (talk) 15:09, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * One of the best films ever made, IMHO. Sarah777 (talk) 07:18, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You think so? Personally I'm not a big fan of Stanley Kubrick. His best film was Full Metal Jacket. My all-time fave film is Far From the Madding Crowd with the georgeous Terence Stamp and Julie Christie. The photography is magnificent.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:01, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah no question 2001 is a brilliant film. Having the imagery "creep in", you know, a film with an artificial being on a ship that finds it necessary to act against the mission, juxtaposed with this bot mangling the article infoboxes as I mention. A tenuous, subtle tie-in. I mean, you're supposed to see how serene and thoughtful moments are passed among the Irish photography, similar that video on the Danube. Then O'Dea creeps in playing "Oh, Rosey, Devolve yer Lawyer" on the kazoo...
 * Wanna talk film then? I am more an auditory person, but I would list 2001, most of Kubrick is superb. (Did fate put us on earth to be at odds, Jen? I hope not, and you do such great writing I can say we disagree just some of the time.) Apocalypse Now is near the top.  Coal Miner's Daughter holds a very high spot in my panoply. Sissy Spacek basically gave the greatest performance I can think of in that film. The music is great. Spacek semi-retired to the Charlottesville, Virginia area after that, I was in Virginia also at the time, so there are some "synergies". Can't stop without also mentioning The African Queen, Cabaret and The Wizard of Oz. Still, I much prefer spending time listening to music than watching a movie. Way it is.
 * Now that you mention it, Jeanne, I will try to see Madding Crowd for you. Any others JB? Sarah? Watchers? Sswonk (talk) 15:41, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Platoon, Missing, Farewell, My Lovely (1975), Play Misty For Me, Michael Collins, The Long, Good Friday, Double Imdeminty, This Property is Condemned, Quadrophenia, Doctor Zhivago, Anne of the Thousand Days, Lady Jane, The Color Purple, West Side Story, The House of the Spirits, Dancing With Wolves, They Shoot Horses, Don't They?......to name but a few.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Now that response deserves a clip all its own: from Aftermath. Sswonk (talk) 16:39, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Badlands (film), Lacombe, Lucien, and Padre Padrone. (Afterwards I pissed next to John Williams (guitarist) as he whistled the theme music (Clarinet Concerto (Mozart)) beautifully. I was too shy to speak, but I think it would have scared him if I had. ... and maybe soaked us both.) :) Chienlit (talk) 17:02, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for sharing that. You've obviously gotten over your shyness...Sarah777 (talk) 20:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * A Place in the Sun, The Godfather, Saturday Night Fever, V For Vendetta, The Praying Mantis, La Reine Margot, A Bronx Story, Nothig Personal', Henry V, Nicholas and Alexandra, The Servant''....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:11, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, this and then this (see it in full screen if you can), it is all tied together with Cabaret in the end. I haven't seen a few of those so it looks like I have some film watching to do, nice lists all. Goodfellas and Taxi Driver are both high up, but I think The Sopranos actually eclipsed Goodfellas as art. Sswonk (talk) 18:46, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry I started this :) I also liked Avatar. And of course The Commitments. Apocalypse Now - definitely. I guess I don't really rate films as "art" - I either like 'em or I don't. As a general rule I despise art/music/theatre critics - indeed critics of all types. You've been WARNED - he he he he! (Evil laugh) Sarah777 (talk) 20:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Although I have yet to see Avatar, I agree with Sarah in choosing The Commitments (Ah...brings back memories of when I lived in Dublin) and Apocalypse Now (The choice of The Doors' The End was pure genius). May I also add Kingdom of Heaven despite its historical inaccuracies: The real Balian d'Ibelin portrayed by Orlando Bloom in the film was too young at the time to have been Queen Sybil's lover; also it didn't show her sister, Isabella who became Queen of Jerusalem. The scenery and Eva Green is georgeous, however. OK, then there is The Accused, The Deerhunter, JFK, The Departed (great soundtrack and great Jack Nicholson), Stella Dallas, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, Blue Dahlia, Wish You Were Here, Fatal Attraction, Klute a forgotten but very good Jane Fonda film from 1970, The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, Zefferelli's Romeo and Juliet, Gone With The Wind, The Little Foxes, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane and practically anything that stars Bette Davis, Mildred Pierce, Ghost Story, Titanic (with some reservations about its late 20th century nuances and lack of images of Harland and Wolff shipyard), La Bamba (a film about the life of Ritchie Valens), Gimme Shelter, A Hard Day's Night, The Changeling....
 * Thanks, I did read this. Plenty of conversations in there. Sswonk (talk) 02:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

400Kb?! Isn't that a bit... excessive, especially for a user talk page? Could just point Sarah to www.imdb.com instead... or www.rottentomatoes.com. Just sayin'... Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 19:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes don't include useful Wikilinks — big difference! It's a really terrific list for the true cinephile: you can explore it again any time you like using View History. — O'Dea (talk) 08:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You are right! So that means removing it doesn't really save any space? (You'll have gathered I'm not very technically minded; Sswonk will verify that) Sarah777 (talk) 21:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Artículo_bueno.svg Verified. Everything is very, very, verified. Seriously though O'Dea, I think the concern here is that adding that many bytes really makes the edit box unwieldy for people adding comments, more than anything else. The list was nice, and there is a way to add things like that without actually copying them: create a subpage of your own user space and copy the list there, then transclude it. Transclude via , a lot less bytes taken on the target. Sswonk (talk) 02:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm glad someone is counting my kilobytes. Who'd ever think you'd be useful Bastun? I think this is a bit OTT - it took me several hours to scroll down to edit this. It wouldn't surprise me if there isn't some Wiki-limit as to how much space we can hog on talk pages. Thanks for the thought O'D! Sarah777 (talk) 21:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry it caused a problem; I didn't mean to be a nuisance. It loaded for me in a few seconds — 400K is equivalent to loading three or four average pictures. As for the "hogging", I used a collapsible table so the contribution only occupied one line on your talk page! I won't do it again. — O'Dea (talk) 08:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Even I can be useful sometimes. :p Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 16:40, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * @ O'Dea - no problem! @ Bastun; the anti-British remark thingy prevents me from giving you a full appraisal :) Sarah777 (talk) 21:31, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, you've lost me. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No Bastun, I didn't lose you. You were lost when I found you - Repentance is the only way you will find yourself. Yea! Sarah777 (talk) 23:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:History of the British Isles - WATCHERS PLEASE NOTE


Someone tagged this stub/start as "Top" importance for several wiki-projects, including the Irl Project, of which the rater is not a member. I have reverted once. Someone keep an eye on it; I can't. Sarah777 (talk) 22:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe Bastun could be really useful here? Sarah777 (talk) 22:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I saw, and have left them a message. I encourage you to discuss this in article talk. Please do not re-revert, even if someone else does. --John (talk) 22:39, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't worry! I reverted with rollback and then realised the implications of the topic! Sarah777 (talk) 22:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you back? Short holiday - busy guy! Sarah777 (talk) 22:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Still on holiday. Good times in Scotland. Limited Internet access, but still keeping an eye out for you. --John (talk) 00:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually I didn't roll that back; I was going through the tag updates of 18th June and saw a stub (ish) made "top" (pretty rare event as there are only 18 in the whole 35,000 Irl Project articles). Mind you, I have just added one myself to Christianity in Ireland - surely a "Top" topic - even to us agnostics. Sarah777 (talk) 22:56, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Wiki-pedants - make that the 27th of June.Sarah777 (talk) 23:12, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I say "agnostic" because atheism is obviously a faith, like all the others. Sarah777 (talk) 22:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not believing in a deity is the same as believing in a deity? Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * They are both beliefs. Agnostics don't have any. Sarah777 (talk) 23:03, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that. --HighKing (talk) 23:37, 28 June 2011 (UTC)



Ergo et al (Quod erat demonstrandum)

 * I don't believe you can call Atheism a faith when it believes in nothing. Mabuska (talk) 00:14, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't believe I can call what?! But I just did, ergo, I not only can but did - thus, ergo, your belief is demonstrably wrong ;) Sarah777 (talk) 20:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

A message from above
Well, Jimbo has referred me to the rule covering the move: HERE -it seems you haven't done your homework Sswonk ;) Sarah777 (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's right, nice of you to ask up. I wasn't of course objecting to any procedural issue, just making an observation about timing and stance. Perhaps you are being ironic here? oh, ";)", yeah... Sswonk (talk) 22:14, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ironic? Nah... You send a link indicating a possible impropriety (I thought); I pass it on; turns out there is no impropriety. Whatever that is - it isn't irony. (Must be 'cos your American, eh?) Sarah777 (talk) 07:54, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Republic of Ireland
The British media coverage of the recent official state visit to Ireland by the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland used the name "Ireland" i.e. 1. The Guardian 2. Sky News 3. The Telegraph

The official Buckingham Palace reports on the visit also used "Ireland" as the official name.

As such it is pretty strange the Wikipedia has not caught up with the world in the correct naming of this country. As the second pillar of Wikipedia states “Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view” then the entry on the country should use the official and internationally recognised name of the country.Bear32ie (talk) 10:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not the only criteria which governs an article name. Fmph (talk) 12:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I don’t think that is exactly correct. This site defines itself as an "encyclopedia" on the Wikipedia:About page. When I would search a reference book or especially an encyclopaedia I would expect that the correct name would be used for what I would search.


 * I think using the correct name is actually one of, if not the most important criteria surrounding the readability, search ability and factuality of any article. The correct naming convention would be expected of any quality reference work or information source.


 * The article itself, can of course go into all the variety of name that surround this country, which is the point of the body content on an article.


 * When I go to the Encyclopaedia Britannica (a very reputable encyclopaedia) and search “Ireland” you are given the correct name for the country on the article and if you want to read more you can explore that in the body of the article . The same also applies to the CIA World Factbook or any amount of creditable reference sources I could point to.


 * However, if you have any other criteria that are logically more important than using the correct name of something to find it in a reference source I am happy to listen.Bear32ie (talk) 14:32, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment
The above says all there is to be said on this topic. On the issue of the collective name for these Islands and the name of sovereign Ireland, Wiki stands virtually alone. We all know why - even if it is "unsafe" for myself (or any Irish editor) to point out the bleedin' obvious. 23:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It still bothers me that you take the approach that by being an Irish editor you are immediately a singular victim. I think when you write like that, you lose. You appear to make attempts to use sloganeering to rally other Irish people to your side and project yourself as a spokesperson, those apparent attempts are ineffective and it is troubling that someone with your intelligence continues to be blind to how it lessens the veracity of your argument. Beyond that, there is something that parallels your thoughts and the others above: this is less obvious, but it does show a favorite pastime for the founder. When the British government throw the big party of the year, and wish all the little girls around the world should squeal with glee to be like the latest addition to the ruling class family, let's get Jimbo Wales to do the page move for her. He did, and now he's that one step closer to peerage. Sir Jimbo, comin' up. These are signals and events that can not be ignored, and I do agree with your continued insistence on pointing these things out. Sure you don't like critics, many people don't, but I think you know me well enough to understand that I would not publicly criticize you unless I felt you could use some perspective to sharpen your argument. You are not the last standing member of some singled out group of Irish victims. Plenty of people find fault with the effects of such continued official institutional bias or reverence toward a small group, as is exemplified by the hereditary monarchy in Britain and other places. Please, Sarah, try to see things with a wider vision. Peace. Sswonk (talk) 00:08, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Sswonk - first I must make something crystal clear: "I don't like critics". I am talking about art/entertainment/taste critics. Critics of myself are very welcome, IF, and it's a big IF, I can reply in kind without the Wiki censorship masquerading as "civility" rules. So I zap comments here when I feel that a reply in kind will just give The Watchers an excuse to come in with their infinite blocks.
 * As for the victim nonsense and the "when you write like that, you lose" - I thought you had woken up to the fact that English Wiki's Anglo POV problem is irreformable. Thus persuasion is not on the agenda - but for future reference it is very important to keep pointing to the naked Emperor as the instances of the serious bias mount - imagine how long an Irish Wiki editor would last if they tried the Jimbo stunt move in a direction that the Royalists didn't like?
 * Regarding the Irish editors "You are not the last standing member of some singled out group of Irish victims". Actually I damn near am. Most of the editors who have supported my defence of WP:NPOV in relation to Ireland in the past are now blocked or banned or have left the project. I DO reflect majority Irish opinion of a range of matters as the vote on the RoI naming demonstrated; I don't reflect the view of Irl Project members - but that group has been purged of anyone who takes the imposition of blatant Anglo POV on Ireland-related articles seriously. So folk are either gone or keep their heads down.
 * You may call these observations "victimhood" - which, when they are observations of demonstrable FACT (which you yourself have noticed) - is a pointless accusation and impossible to defend against.
 * Sarah777 (talk) 06:28, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * By the way I have no doubt that http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Catherine,_Duchess_of_Cambridge&diff=prev&oldid=426537425 breach of Wiki rules which would get me an indefinite ban is part of what has triggered the tearing-up of the Wiki-rules on the use of titles in article names. Sarah777 (talk) 06:34, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I have asked the highest authority for his views on that page move. Sarah777 (talk) 06:42, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I de-spaced a couple of extra spaces above. My insistence on speaking directly to your approach, when I have been one who has been steadily in agreement with your argument for some time, is meant to give you a chance to see why you continue to fail to convince more people. When a minority is being unfairly treated, the members of the minority who appeal to general principles of fairness rather than more narrow definitions of ethnicity, economic station or gender, for example, are more likely to gain wider support. I can't help but tell you this because I really think you need to have it made clear: you are more likely to continue to fail if you rely primarily on your Irishness as your platform for expressing grievance. I took "even if it is "unsafe" for myself (or any Irish editor) to point out the bleedin' obvious" to be a sarcastic summation of what your complaint is rooted in—an unfair imposition of authority over you because of your nationality. You may get a few Irish nationalists to applaud that, but it is really a response-in-kind against the practitioners of unfairness, rather than an appeal to a reasonable people of all nationalities. A hypothetical "Irish editor" who came along and approached things with a more universally understandable appeal would likely have a better chance. If: the Irish can semi-seriously be referred to in the movie quote: "The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once and say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud" (from The Commitments), then: in my experience, blacks who appeal to community and brotherhood among all people, such as King did, should provide you with the best example. King showed that the system of segregation was oppressive to everyone. That is what I mean, I don't dispute that blacks, or Irish in this case, have been treated poorly in the past. I am just being honest here, as an only part-Irish, United States citizen, I find that I am left with the feeling that you always end by broadcasting an "it's an Irish thing, you can't understand" message rather than a "this pattern of behaviour and editorial policy enforcement is wrong across the board" message. I could be completely wrong, it is just a gut feeling: you are not allowing yourself an opportunity to gain wider acceptance of your views by proclaiming them to be uniquely Irish. It offers those who disagree with you no chance but to defend themselves against charges of suppression of a people rather than allowing them to understand their view needs adjustment for reasons based on broad truths and fundamental fairness.
 * The page move Jimmy Wales made at the moment of the royal marriage, I mean at the moment like it was man landing on the moon 02:56, 21 July 1969 (UTC), well there is something else I think you could write "says all there is to be said on this topic." The founder is interested in writing about the peerage, made this ceremonial move for some unknown reason at the moment the title was being conferred, and that is not good news for those of us who find narrow, hereditary systems to be anachronistic impediments to human advancement. Sswonk (talk) 15:28, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Steve, repetition isn't going to change my mind; anymore than I in any way expect to change the minds of the Anglo-pov majority here. Frankly, I think you are stunningly naive to think the problems here are amenable to appealing to "reasonable people". As for only objecting to impositions on Ireland related articles; untrue - and I'm more than slightly annoyed at that misrepresentation.
 * Check my track record; List of Massacres would be a good place to start - but my statements on the global problem of Anglo-pov on Wiki are far more extensive than that. However, Ireland is the only topic I edit and the only one I have an interest in editing. Why is Anglo-American pov a problem on Wiki? Because the vast majority of "reasonable" editors are unaware of it or are happy to have it so.
 * From my observations over five years the minority of those "reasonable" editors who see the problem have failed utterly to have any impact whatsoever on the "reasonable majority". And perhaps your link to that page move explains why. The policing arrangements eliminate or discourage anyone prepared to take the issue seriously. So "reasonable" people like yourself can make "reasonable" arguments, citing facts and examples till the cows come home and achieve....zilch. So we have both adopted strategies for supporting WP:NPOV and both achieved zilch.
 * Therefore I'll continue to do it my way till you can offer something better. Not something that reads better from your perspective (which isn't one of my goals); something that works better.
 * Sarah777 (talk) 17:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * For what you are "more than slightly annoyed at", I wrote "I find that I am left with the feeling" you have ethnocentric objections, not that it is fact. I am trying to give you an outside view, maybe give you pause. I don't mean to misrepresent your character. I do appreciate being told when I make arguments or statements that you feel you can't defend against. But where is the "repetition"? At any rate, it is never possible to be perfect and everyone does that, everyone in any deliberative conversation makes such selfish statements against which there is no defense. Frequently in some cases, you know the classic examples. In your case you have sometimes cited your personal nature (for example "It's my Italian-Irish temprement - or something. Trying to explain why certain things are at odds with WP:NPOV by use of analogy, and getting blocked for that I regard as simple majoritarianism (rather than the rule of law) - and in my case blatant political censorship." Sarah777 (talk) 23:55, 14 May 2011 (UTC) ?) as the reason for your trials and tribulations, while at the same time in the same sentence making the very victimhood claims you now deny. See the other side of the coin, that each one of us is at times the Emperor without clothes. Whose minds do you expect to change? You have convinced yourself that you can't effect change, but continue to campaign for it? That defines perpetual "loyal opposition", and defies comprehension. In other words, the world is completely screwed in your view, but you're all set with that and happy to participate nonetheless. Is it through analogy that you wish to keep things the same? That's what all that you just wrote adds up to so far for me. I don't consider myself naive, but I am definitely not getting something with regard to your motivation. That is why I mentioned the phrase "moth to a flame" a few days back. If we see these problems as real, tangible faults of human history, why can't there be motivation to change things rather than simply remark bitterly about them while flying straight into the candlelight? Sswonk (talk) 22:12, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sswonk; you missed my point. Your methodology/approach/"reasonableness" has achieved nothing. Offer me something different; something that works. As we are both failing to effect any change in the dictatorship of Anglo-pov it is becoming tedious to be chided by someone who has nothing better to offer. I simply feel it is important to keep on pointing out the abuses as I become aware of them.
 * As for this "victimhood" Orwellianism, that is a very trendy charge here in Ireland, specifically aimed at nationalists by opponents. It is a content-free put-down of facts the opponents don't like.
 * "Trying to explain why certain things are at odds with WP:NPOV by use of analogy, and getting blocked for that I regard as simple majoritarianism (rather than the rule of law)- and in my case blatant political censorship."
 * That is a simple statement of fact. End of.
 * Sarah777 (talk) 07:48, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ever read this? No, I understood the "thrust" of what you were saying. Here's a statement of fact: what you have been doing for five years has actually achieved a negative result. People who would have otherwise supported moving the RoI title gave you and your methods by name as a reason for deciding not to. Although I don't need to build a case for myself with you, I did achieve something through helping to argue for your reinstatement lately, you were almost gone. It's not censorship for people to tell you bluntly you are deaf and wasting time, and basically in a friendly way saying you are being a fuck up. In the extreme counter-view, many Irish people have spent five years laughing at what appears to be your comical grab for the title of queen of the Irish resistance on Wikipedia. "Citizens of sovereign Ireland, unite!!! Our life depends on changing the title to Islands of the North Atlantic!!!!" Tell ya, as fun and satisfying as using such a voice may be for you, it is a pretty trite and unsophisticated way of approaching the problem. Suddenly, at some point in life it dawns on the deaf person, "you mean nearly everyone else can hear? I need help getting along here in their world?" Hasn't happened with you yet.


 * The question is, when you say "offer me something different" to help you fight the biases you witness: do you expect there is some "argument dole", a charity for giving full unconditional success to people who have no ideas? Generally speaking, people offer each other friendly advice for both their individual benefit and to help the group as a whole, with the natural empathy that makes us human acting on a one-to-one level. It works, if the recipient understands that is what is occurring, and will "work" only when they apply that experience to temper and adapt their own actions. You need to come up with something on your own, Sarah, something besides continuing to play the same permanent-revolutionary-without-a-clue notes. The way you protest makes it more likely your opponents will be successful. As tiresome as having me say that may be to you, it is certainly more fact than your cries of censorship are. Sswonk (talk) 16:13, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I wonder Steve, did it ever occur to you that you might be hopelessly simplistic and completely wrong? Sarah777 (talk) 22:10, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Now we are getting, if we haven't already, to the point where the talk page falls apart as a communication tool. Too much time between responses, too little actual rhythm to the conversation. I say that because you call me Steve, and I think that means you are still taking this and making an effort to reply, but I am sincerely unsure. The comment above, Critics of myself are very welcome, IF, and it's a big IF, I can reply in kind without the Wiki censorship masquerading as "civility" rules, appears to apply, you aint zappin me. Happy day. (No really, thanks). But you know, I try to be self-deprecating to a pretty good degree. I am not saying stop believing what you believe. First of all, you know full well that once the curtain is pulled back and a person becomes aware of the mass media-military-industrial-financial-Anglo-American man-made gravity that actually can be resisted, they can't turn back. But, I just wish you could stop isolating yourself from the discussion through that triteness and repetitive sloganeering method I am urging you to modify. Stop turning people away and getting ignored the minute you open your mouth. I have been, as you asked above, following your track record for two years, most of it through direct dealings with you here. I know your way of shifting focus, you are trying it on me right now and that's why I keep harping here. I have three questions (with stage directions so you can sing along), PLEASE answer them: 1.(affectionately) Did you ever realize that when you got banned the last time, it started when you came to my page frantic (your words here) "some bot is placing this excrescence on some sovereign-Ireland related articles"; and that in fact, the tag you removed at BI was placed several months earlier, you just hadn't noticed, and the edit previous to your removal was by an archiving bot, NOT a bot placing rag tags? I figured that out later, after I took your word as fact and I should have checked. I think you goofed pretty good there, but again, can you answer q#1 and tell me if you realized that later, or meant something else a bot did? 2.(curiously) Have you read Demons, OK if you don't want to answer but if so can you just say "I don't want to answer" or something? 3.(kinda equivocally, affectionately and curiously all at once) When you wonder about me "did it ever occur to you that you might be hopelessly simplistic and completely wrong?":
 * can you be more specific? Sswonk (talk) 02:09, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda, how's that? she says...
Yep - you took the words right out of my mouth :)

Q1 - Nope, wasn't fully aware of the background. That became obvious during the show-trial. Q2 - Yes. Q3 - No. Have a Nice Day! Sarah777 (talk) 08:11, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And I'd never hold a brolly to keep the sun off - not really necessary here anyways...Sarah777 (talk) 08:13, 6 July 2011 (UTC)



And if you want a good laugh....
Watch Exit Through the Gift Shop Sarah777 (talk) 08:25, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip, who says you would?, and 'til next time &hellip; – Sswonk (talk) 12:38, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Sarah, this is the post viewing thank you. I rented the Banksy film, just finished watching it. It took 25 minutes to download from iTunes store, HD and so during the wait I got bored and played one song. "Shaman's Blues" by the Doors, the album is Soft Parade, it satisfied me so I did not play any more music. Then, from about 11 PM to 12:35 AM, I watched the film. I only paused it a couple of times to catch something I missed, first where he was talking about being in school and learning about his mother and then when he found out he had promised 200 door prize originals and had to figure out how to deliver. I can't say that I had a good laugh, though I did smile quite a bit through the movie. I enjoyed the pace and the colorfulness, and feeling kind of a part of it all for the time I was watching. I am going to read a little more, this is a very fresh impression but simply thank you, I enjoyed it. We had some rain earlier, I am going for some air. See you – Sswonk (talk) 04:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Further evidence of Wikifaults: Town functions besmeared
From the article Weymouth, Massachusetts:


 * Weymouth has 9 Dunkin' Donuts locations, including the busiest Dunkin' Donuts in the United States (located at 755 Main Street in South Weymouth). Until April 9, 2011, the Weymouth Wikipedia entry erroneously reported the number of Dunkin' Donuts locations as 14. This statistic did not cite any sources and consequently led to occasional disputes at Weymouth-themed trivia nights throughout the town. Knowledgeable contestants could easily identify the 9 Dunkin' Donuts locations in Weymouth, but event judges accepted only the dubious 14 figure despite the complete lack of any supporting evidence whatsoever. Several town trivia night victories are now sadly branded with asterisks due to the disreputable research, slipshod officiating, and flagrant disregard for factuality and accuracy that have besmeared these competitions.

(&hellip;to say nothing of the mendacious assistance of the influential Wikipedia website, "the glorified blog anyone can push their POV across"®) Sswonk (talk) 16:31, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Now Steve, that is a far more useful and appropriate way (if equally ineffective) to support WP:NPOV against Anglo-American nationalism than all the preaching you do lately. We need a completely different angle. I'm working on several; none of which have any hope of actually working, mind. Sarah777 (talk) 08:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have removed this; not only is it crappy trivia, but it is way too self-referential for a Wikipedia article to discuss how poor Wikipedia is. Somewhat recursive, if that is the right term. --John (talk) 21:14, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Missed that John! What did you remove? Sarah777 (talk) 22:06, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * All the trivia. --John (talk) 12:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Say what?
Timahoe? Nora lives (talk) 23:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just malicious gossip. Tim's a good guy. Ignore the haters.  FlowerpotmaN &middot;(t) 14:36, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Tim? Sarah777 (talk) 22:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Team a hoe? In answer to your other question, I've ended up in something so far proving no good for some of the people involved. A part of me would like to get out, and I could, but my options are no good: 1) kill myself, 2) grossly offend and upset the other people, 3) stop playing the game with them and try to lose interest while trying to "go back" to my life, and others. Two months ago I discovered something shocking enough to make #1 a real possibility, that I was the victim of long-term Internet wiretapping and computer hacking, but I don't think I'm going to kill myself now. I tried #2 a bit but it didn't work, and I don't really want to offend and upset them. #3 in its own way could offend or upset them the most, but they won't give me enough information to make a decision. What is driving me insane is I don't know what they want. Also, it's possible all some of them want to do is make money with intellectual material of mine, or may already be doing so, so I feel like I have to keep watch on them, and this keeps me playing this maddening game. They have their own websites, blogs, and twitter accounts that I follow but aside from regularly making it clear they're still following my activity by making reference to it, they give me no other information. Two I have tried to contact by email several times. Nothing. However my main subject of interest is a more high profile contributor they're associated with, and my following this person's career, combined with a related activity here, may have been what possessed them all to follow me. I was going to approach her some time next year person to person, once I had certain material more developed and had gotten certain addictions and obsessions, partly caused by extended idleness where I was living, under control. I had little else to do, and still don't have things how I want them now.


 * So what to do? If I stop following them there is the possibility I might offend them, especially because I made a few promises before learning some new things about them I dislike (but can get over). I'm sure if I do they will continue to follow me for a while, and may be tempted to hack me again. Continuing to press on like they're liking, on the other hand, involves a fair amount of attention and effort, and which they seem to want me to increase, but I'm starting to get the impression all the whole bunch want is everything I've got for absolutely fucking free and don't give a damn at all about me. I can understand that too. They seemed to come in my direction a while back but I think it was damage control. It's complicated.


 * I don't have my own website or blog or twitter, so a lot of the bizarre activity you see in my userspace is me interacting with them as they do this or that out there. Long story short. What was that about heroin? What people out there? I guess I wouldn't have to stress about them. The amount of alcohol it requires to deal with all of this is killing me. They're pros and I don't know what to do about them. Also one or more might owe me money for the possible theft for commercial purposes of content from an email but that's not high priority (although it could remain of some) if they're being more honest with me than I currently think. (they're reading) What's pathetic is I was going to let it go for the sake of my imagined position, but then a little while ago the one I want to work with finally made a confession, which I've slowly been processing and interpreting. She said it like we're almost buddies in a psycho way, but it made me start to think, and now I don't believe anything I hear or see.

The alcohol is probably allowing her and her friends to more easily lead me on. Then I go into withdrawal (I'm in it now), get furious and start to distance myself, and then I'm back with them again once I feel better after some drinks. I am all over the place. If can get heroin I know it will be different. I'll get control back, and hopefully a better perspective. And I can't stop drinking for too long. I need benzos or opiates or the withdrawal will make me crazy until I shut down and can't function. 3-4 years ago I got to where I was drinking 18 hours a day or more and when I tried to quit ended up incapacitated and hallucinating for possibly five days (lost count) before I called the hospital. I had managed to drink water and take a vitamin a couple of times. Eating and walking were too difficult. I barely made it out of that place.


 * Do you remember when we were having fun with motorbikes and horses? That was for them to enjoy, before I knew what they were really doing. It's not quite to the point where I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves and that one should worry about robbers, but we're not in a good place right now. I wish I could forget about it. Not so easy.


 * Thanks for asking! Nora lives (talk) 11:24, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * OK. So that's why you want to get addicted to heroin? Next question; why do you write such brilliant researched articles on pre-Norman Gaelic Ireland? Does this not bore you? This wiki-world? (Still only askin')Sarah777 (talk) 19:55, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you about my articles! Ivar of Limerick is borderline or actually GA and you may have missed him because he's not in the project. An optional section or two are possible but the article can be considered complete. It surpasses Oxford biography quality and with 20% more could be submitted for publication in a journal.


 * Let me boast! It isn't just pre-Norman Gaelic Ireland. I have three articles upcoming which I would love you to watch. The first is the Bissett family (Ireland), which will be B class soon, and with the help of one more paper I need for the later sections and some re-writing of the first section using a paper I already have, will be a GA. The others are Donal II O'Donovan and Donal III O'Donovan. The former I can bring to GA standards with completion of the first section and some expansion and re-writing of the second. The latter will be B class with that one section finished, the addition of a picture or two, and some improvement of the style and arrangement. After that I still need a source or two to go any further. There are others I should come back to or suggest for some rating as they are but we'll see.


 * Why do I write them? Over 90% of my contributions are self-serving. I plan to be notable enough for my own article in the future and the ones I create and devote to are in nearly all cases here to stand behind me, because they are family, however distant. I am a descendant of Donal II, and probably both Ivar of Limerick and Ivar of Waterford, through Donnubán mac Cathail (and probably his son Cathal mac Donnubáin). Another is Owen MacCarthy Reagh, 12th Prince of Carbery, who requires several more weeks of research. Follow the links from him and others and you will find I am often the creator of the article. Through Owen I am a descendant of Finghin MacCarthy Reagh, 8th Prince of Carbery, who commissioned the famous Book of Lismore along with his wife the Lady Catherine née FitzGerald. He and his father-in-law Thomas FitzGerald, 7th Earl of Desmond were the two wealthiest princes in Ireland of their time. Nora lives (talk) 21:54, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The Bissetts stand on their own, not behind me, and have to do with family of a different kind. Nora lives (talk) 22:01, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But make no mistake. I do consider them family. Look at the effort gone into the article.


 * My use of WP for this purpose is extensive. My maternal grandmother was a member/descendant of the Claflin family, while her husband, my maternal grandfather (who died before I was born), was a grandson of Edwin Bennett. On the other side it was my paternal grandmother who was a descendant of Donal II above and Joanne MacCarthy through through their son Teige (ancestor also of the modern Lords of Clancahill). My biological paternal grandfather, who was a friend of Godfrey A. Rockefeller, was probably noteworthy enough for his own article here, and I might just create that after I change my name (he and his family were not so kind to me), and from him I have inherited the ultimately Far Eastern Haplogroup N (Y-DNA), so I created the section List of haplogroups of historical and famous figures featuring my cousins the Rurikids and Gediminids (I am much closer to the former), and hopefully myself one day.

For example, I tend to be protective of the O'Neill dynasty because it turns out we have three connections. First, like I am, the majority of their modern representatives are descendants of Gerald Mór FitzGerald, 8th Earl of Kildare. Second, the Claflin family belong either to the Clan Maclachlan or the McLoughlins and thus are kin to the O'Neills in one of two ways. Finally, it turns out the Bissetts were quite involved with the O'Neills and intermarriage between them in at least one direction is documented.


 * Now on to the Uí Ímair (I am the principal contributor). The O'Donovan family (principal contributor), to whom I belong through my grandmother, are one of the Irish noble families considered to be undoubted descendants of the Norse royal house in some way or another, and so I have written Ímar Ua Donnubáin in part in support of that. His descendants were also largely wiped out and their lordship occupied by my ancestor Domhnall na g-Croiceann. From the Uí Ímair also descend the Clann Somhairle (creator), probably in the female line, making the MacDonnells and MacDougalls distant cousins of mine. It turns out the Bissetts have extensive associations with MacDonnells, mostly recently the Clan MacDonald of Dunnyveg and the MacDonnells of Antrim, but according to Seán Duffy probably going back to the 13th century (Clann Somhairle period), to be included in the revision of the first section of their article. On top of that, according to one school the Clan Maclachlan and related families may actually descend from the Clann Somhairle themselves, either excluding the O'Neills or placing one or another in the female line. I have yet to create Anrothan kindred to cover that.


 * I am somewhat weary of early medieval and prehistoric Ireland, but I descend from the Corcu Loígde (creator) and thus the Dáirine (creator) from their cadet sept the O'Learys. Donal II's mother was an O'Leary. Another kindred with a connection to the Dáirine were the Uí Fidgenti (creator), probably among the ancestors of the O'Donovans, and related to them were the more famous Uí Liatháin (creator) of early British fame.


 * My childhood was appalling and I have an unfortunate history because of it, not to mention the problems I still have, so I need everyone above... excluding my biological paternal grandfather I suppose, but at least in the haplogroup he gives me powerful distant cousins by some accident. Nora lives (talk) 09:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It is all about me. Did I forget to mention that at least from the MacCarthys I am a descendant of the Eóganachta? Their article is a ghastly mess but I was one of the main contributors. Nora lives (talk) 10:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC)



File:IMG CrettyardSingle1019cc.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:IMG CrettyardSingle1019cc.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:17, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have commented in the appropriate place. But note that I have adopted the orphan. Sarah777 (talk) 19:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As you may be aware, many files you uploaded or altered have been spared for the time being from complete oblivion. Those in power, who might have rendered your alterations and uploads into no longer even electrons, nor muons or quarks, but  pointless nothingness , have nevertheless chosen not to. No more adoptions necessary for now. Estelle, meet Inès. Inès, Estelle. Here, watch this, you'll thank me later. I mean, it's where the world is headed: fed up with zucchinis, that make her throw up under the covers, fed up with these cynics, meadows of autumn flowers. Possibly she's contemplating having sex with herself, however I think she is singing about bubble baths so it passes the censors. You cynic you. Jaysus. :– Sswonk (talk) 03:41, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, still here today....but gone tomorrow? I think one must become philosophical about these things (or so I'm urged at every Wiki twist and turn) ... so it exists and always has and always will not in the arrow of time sense but in the latest notion of the Universe. At least that's what Brian Greene seems to be saying in The Fabric of the Cosmos. (Well worth a gander, it's a pot-boiling page-turner in the Physics sense).

Is this is where science is leading us....back to the future? Sarah777 (talk) 08:52, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Addendum: that is one clever catchy song! Though, Steve, I guess the song isn't the main attraction for you - yer wan is smooooooooooth I'll grant. I also note that the French refer to a goldfish as a redfish. That has some cosmic significance I've no doubt. But what? Answers on a postcard....Sarah777 (talk) 09:16, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it is catchy, no question that's one reason I decided to send it you. You of course understand all about my wan Sarah and this is why I persist here. You connaisez ma chanson, I'm persistent. It is nice knowing the amount of French I do, which allowed me to confirm the subtitles on the fly; I wouldn't send you a silly parody translation of a video like that. Well, without getting lawyers in a froth I'll throttle my comments: there is this saying about the brain being the sexiest organ, and privacy being what it is (ISN'T) we can only go so far. At any stretch, spending a Saturday morning reading your response along with my coffee, c'est plus agréable. Awaiting the card, I'll add something else at the thread below. Sswonk (talk) 14:49, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Poll on Ireland article names
'''The result of this poll was that a huge majority of editors from sovereign Ireland opposed the current biased arrangements but the votes of British editors forced the retention of the contra WP:NPOV naming scheme. As they routinely do on the topic of the "British" Isles. And to compound this the Admins overseeing the vote censored the analysis of the votes which pointed this fact out.'''

Hi, getting a bit peeved over this myself , there has to be a way around this bullying by the "editors". If the queen came here on a state visit and continually called the state "Ireland" what more proof do these want ? As for the voting, thats a joke , a country of 4 1/2 m v 64m they are going to out vote us everytime. I believe it is time to do what we Irish do best. As for voting for what is the actual name of the state, well there is more than one way to vote. Sorry if I put this in the wrong place, I apologise. You, and the other Irish editors , will hear more from ,and about , me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.222.14 (talk) 18:35, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Courgette
And spotted this example of Wiki-bias as a result of your video link! Over here we call them courgettes; just like they do in France (and probably everywhere outside America faik). If you asked someone on Grafton Street what a zucchini is they'd think it was an Italian racing car or some sort of German salami. (Heck, even MS spell-checker knows what a courgette is but redlines when confronted with "zucchini". Don't get me started. Sarah777 (talk) 09:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's always been zucchini in my world. Why didn't the stuffy French language cops have her sing courgette? I guess they understand meter? Now, having dived into a lot of Irish recently, to the point of listening to long internet radio broadcasts on RTÉ RnaG, I have some thoughts and questions. Broadly, it sounds something like German, but of course not at all like German, all at the same time. The rhythms are kind of thoughtful, and there are those occasional hard consonants, plenty of "guh", "kuh", "ess" and "ochs" as well. I know you are not a native speaker, but would you have any sort of proficiency? It might be like my level of French, as I believe you must have taken a few years of Irish in school. What sort of understanding do you have, I imagine you are always trying to learn more? I certainly would. But to read the lyrics of Óró, Sé do Bheatha 'Bhaile it sometimes feels like the Irish would even begrudge help from modern Dubliners such as yourself. Difficult call, but I end up thinking they are very appreciative and being among folks in an Ghaeltacht I might feel at ease. I found a few sites, there are entire lessons about spelling and downloadable language tapes, to me a very interesting world in which intellectual curiosity can lose itself. Sarah, trust me getting you started is a pleasure, and anyway you generally have no trouble. This here talk page mess doesn't do it justice though, I get frustrated with not being able to just turn to you and respond, to hear and see the reaction, etc. What we live with. Send me an Irish postcard, in Irish! Ciao, – Sswonk (talk) 15:18, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have the opposite problem to that of yer normal East Coast serious Irish speaker; having a good ear I have a near perfect Connemara 'blas' but I forget the words and couldn't write proper to save my life. There are many proficients here on Wiki but they are not all politically sound on the various National Questions. Sarah777 (talk) 21:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello there, sounds like me with pop songs. I can totally appreciate the minute musical subtleties and the slyness of the tune, ask me to recite the words and I might make three mistakes in the first couplet. Almost an e/c there S, I was contemplating fixing the part about the language cops being a little cryptic. We won't discuss what's politically sound I don't guess, since I am a grade A shit for brains all around after watching the video YET AGAIN! Not really. I guess Allie knows a lot of Irish if that's part of what you mean. Today, I am smelling the meat sauce simmering and getting hungry for that with pasta. Nice bumping into you Sorch. I made that up please tell me how I mangled that if so... I can't read pop physics any more, it just becomes clear, kind of like zen. Maybe next week. Hi! Sswonk (talk) 21:39, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Eating right now. I am a bleeding brilliant cook. Superb, with a bit of grated cheese. Is this a wikitweat? I digress, still hungry so I'll think of something and write later. Sswonk (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And to conclude for the time being, until you re-emerge again simultaneous and at once or something, I was enthralled and fascinated, and really liked, Gödel, Escher, Bach. I was a physics natural in high school (the one that ended with your Leaving Cert) but went more into the philosophical, metaphysical realm in my early twenties, and read and re-read that book. Now happy, but perhaps less wealthy. Surely less nerdy. And I have a biology/naturalism text I am two thirds through, as we have noted before there's this tendency to have many books not all read, lying around. Hmm, that book is a very odd one (GEB), maybe not to your taste. You could try it. Speaking of wikibias, "The word zucchini is the Italian name for the plant, which is why it is the more common name in Italy (zucchina/e), but also in North America, Australia and Germany, while courgette..." someone, please fix that sentence. It is a disaster of both logic and style. I may try it, though maybe not. Sswonk (talk) 01:58, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I know you confess to being not that technically minded, your phrase, so just in case you are in the dark about this you wrote above Heck, even MS spell-checker knows what a courgette is but redlines when confronted with "zucchini". I know you have probably heard the phrase, "you can be as dumb as a post sometimes". Or maybe turnip? Anyway, the MS spell checker you use is based on where you bought the computer, or what you told it you write with. I don't think there is a En-IE version, don't swing a bat at me but you probably use En-UK. See Microsoft explain it, the second bullet point "use a particular language location". This is relevant because you objected to the rag tags, which are a (poorly implemented) way of combating the different web browser language setting. So if you use Chrome, Sarah's Chrome checks "she closed her eyes and visualised the colour of the courgette as deep green", it won't redline. Mine redlines "visualised" and "colour" (not, though, "courgette"; my MS Word however does redline all three). So many people, often Americans who don't know any better, see wiki edit windows and see those redlines and try to fix them because, their En-US speller says "colour" is bad. Thus you get the sort of stuffy rag tag warnings you see on the article talk pages, which get ignored anyway and the wonderful circle of life is renewed. So, are you smarter now? Smile! Here, pretend you are floating in the balloon, second picture on this page. Peace. Sswonk (talk) 03:41, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Autumn arrives
Six weeks later.....and the blaze of colour is more like the 1st October than 1st September. Trees getting ready to shed so early....spooky. Why? Sarah777 (talk) 23:03, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know but our summer was really freaky this year. We got our intense heat wave in late August instead of late July which is usually the case here in Sicily.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:28, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Freaky here too in (northern) New Zealand Our spring began yesterday according to the calendar, but the daffs etc have long gone. Moriori (talk) 08:59, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * In the northeastern United States there has been nothing unusual to report this late summer. There was the large storm Irene, a bit unusual but not related to the "normal" timing of things as are these comments. I suspect this evidence is showing something of what you mean, Sarah, certainly snap photos near Sandyford if you can. Are there any news reports (you can trust) about this? Sswonk (talk) 15:12, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Email
I sent you a private note to your email, please check. Thanks. Sswonk (talk) 16:25, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Poll on ArbCom resolution - Ireland article names
There is a poll taking place here on whether or not to extend the ArbCombinding resolution, which says there may be no page move discussions for Ireland, Republic of Ireland or Ireland (disambiguation), for a further two years. Fmph (talk) 20:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Just checking in
How are things with you? --John (talk) 04:14, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey sunshine! What's new with you? RashersTierney (talk) 21:15, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, where you been, man?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:03, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I did cast my vote against the continuation of bias on Wiki. However I feel increasingly like a dissident in North Korea. I know this isn't a democracy - but neither, it appears, is it governed by the rule of law. Ciao Sarah777 (talk) 01:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

A very short introduction
A "friend" sent me clutch of books (via Amazon) in a series entitled "A Very Short Introduction".

The titles are:

A very short introduction to Diplomacy

A very short introduction to Leadership

A very short introduction to Genius

A very short introduction to Agnosticism

A very short introduction to Nothing

There may be a message in this eclectic selection, but is has me confused. So I'll shun dialling a friend and instead ask the audience - which one should I read first? Sincerely Yours

Sarah777 (talk) 02:13, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * And on the topic of Amazon I bought a Kindle - never thought I would but it's just as good as reading a book. (OK, Jeff Bezos slipped me $100 to mention this). With the new Kindle fire I'll be able to browse this page in colour! ($200 for that, thanks Jeff).
 * Sarah777 (talk) 02:22, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Not the norm: a good portion of that makes very little sense to me. How do these books get sent to you? Is it like someone posting pictures here, you have a "page" at Amazon where people send things? As you can tell, not a user: I always unclick saving to my "cloud" when buying music from Amzn. Nt. Please advise, though, how do you get gifted? Forget it anyone who thinks the "friend" is me! I would not venture to propose 777 needs short introductions to those topics. Sarah, you may want to read this; if using the Silk browser in "cloud" mode, you will be storing every single move you make on the web inside Jeff's server farm. Only for thirty days they disclaim, but certainly enough time for learning more than you may want to share. That link is to a blog by Apple employee #8, Chris Espinosa, but I don't think he is telling tales just to discredit Amazon. Apple is doing odd things with Safari browser that makes deleting cookies impossible, Facebook gathers groups of "friends" and studies their habits. Wiki, oh, wiki, gathering all of the higher I.Q. folk into a microcosm, etc. None of these folks would ever sell or misuse this info, do you think? Ciao, bella. Sswonk (talk) 05:57, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Been toying with the notion of getting one of these gadgets myself, and this model seems to be a 'game changer'. Problem is most of the books I'm interested will probably never be commercially viable for the big companies to digitise and make available in this format, (unless Google 'magic' their way out of legal restrictions). Last two books bought online were Handbook of the Ulster Question and Report of the Irish Boundary Commission. Like the idea of being able to annotate with a stylus on some of the other models. Keep us updated on how you find your new toy. RashersTierney (talk) 10:21, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Paranoia uber alles?
Ah Steve! You can send gifts via Amazon. The arrive in a package via snail mail. And it wasn't you - I know who it was...at least I do now! Rash - alas the Kindle Fire is only available in America so far. I can "pre-order" on Amazon.co.uk but I don't do pre-orders.

A fortnight may be a long time in politics - 'tis an eternity in my mind!

Sarah777 (talk) 19:20, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Or, maybe just 'cos....don't mean they ain't out to get you!
I read that  link, Steve, and was taken by this:
 * Every page they see
 * every link they follow
 * every click they make
 * every ad they see .......(is going to be intermediated by one of the largest server farms on the planet).


 * In 1984, Sting (of The Police) wrote:


 * Every breath you take
 * Every move you make
 * Every bond you break
 * Every step you take
 * I'll be watching you


 * Is all this spooky or what?!

Sarah777 (talk) 19:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Fourth Amendment issues and unsettled law regarding internet privacy are real concerns, I don't know what you would have to worry about in Ireland. Then there is the Patriot Act. If someone somewhere convinces some judge somewhere you are some kind of threat, then maybe they get permission to look over your shoulder at everything you do online. If you are not a citizen of the U.S. but using servers based here, what are the rules? I don't have that sort of thing to hide, assume neither do you. I could probably trust Amazon, but not individuals with ways of accessing what Amazon has. I would still feel more comfortable if there were less, rather than more, ways of letting prying eyes into our lives. All of it is spooky. Sswonk (talk) 22:04, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

File:IMG 0839c.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:IMG 0839c.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. – Quadell (talk) 13:02, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Dear Quadell, I vote to delete that travesty aka 0839c. Portal tombs, like rationality, have no place on Wikipedia. I have just read that ten years ago Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash were all alive; now we have no jobs, no hope and no cash. So Quaddo (iimcyt), in the name of God and all things Holy - delete it! Sarah777 (talk) 06:46, 15 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete – Free rein, quite obviously "You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant". Sswonk (talk) 15:21, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Harry Breen and Robert Buchanan
Hello Sarah, what do you think of my latest article: 1989 Jonesborough Ambush? The events surrounding their killings are a hot issue now with the Smithwick Tribunal and all.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:04, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:IMGDundrumTipp 4594w.jpg


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Possibly unfree File:HistoryofGeashill.jpg
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Not missing, merely sleeping.....


Dear Mr Addams

I thought you had passed away in 1988 and it is a Great Disappointment to see that such is not the case. Or have you risen for some seasonal trolling? This is Halloween. Tonight the souls of The Dead will rise and move amongst us - perhaps you set your alarm clock a biteen too early?

Delete them all - each and every one of them. Not one breaches any copyright but neither is any one of them worth defending. These days I am merely keeping my six-toed foot in the Wiki-portal - in RL watching the ongoing collapse of the US/Western Empire is far more riveting than arguing with it's zombie-defenders here in wacky wiki-world. Sarah777 (talk) 08:50, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds like one of the sweetly melodic Beatles songs sung by John Lennon After all I'm Only Sleeping...--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:51, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Congrats on 1989 Jonesborough Ambush. Another AAA rated work. You really are very good at this Jeanne. Well done :)Sarah777 (talk) 11:34, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The hardest part is balancing the refs to present a totally NPOV. The whole affair, from what I have read, stinks like a pile of discarded fish under a boiling sun. I think the collusion in this case goes way, way up. I think Kevin Fulton's version is correct.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:05, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sarah, thanks a million for your B-Class rating of the article. I'm glad someone appreciates the research and work I put into that one.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:22, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah c'mon Jeanne. Ya knows we all appreciates ya, respects ya, and loves ya ta bits! RashersTierney (talk) 10:30, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks a million, Rashers. Oh, have either of you seen these articles I created: 2000 Tandragee killings, Billy "Head Buck Cat" Hanna, or 1991 Cappagh killings?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:14, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Have a number of your articles on 'watch'. Will add these three and read through. Heavy going! (the subjets, not the writing).RashersTierney (talk) 12:40, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Based on WP:ASSESS I gave 2000 Tandragee killings, which I had read previously, a B-class rating. I had compared it to Charles Boycott, which got a "C", but realized Boycott is probably rated incorrectly, not sure why. Certainly 2000 Tandragee is better than "C", described as "Useful to a casual reader, but would not provide a complete picture for even a moderately detailed study." So, another "B" for Jeanne Boleyn! Sswonk (talk) 18:05, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the B-Class, Sswonk. I'm really pleased.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:13, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't get around to studying your other articles but I see 'the gang' are doing it! Well done on Tandragee :) Sarah777 (talk) 06:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sarah, Tandragee was very difficult to write due to the horrific nature of the murders. I had to stop and lie down repeatedly throughout after reading some of the grisly details related by Burcombe. Did you see the Crimewatch episode about the killings which I linked to at the bottom of the page? I believe Burcombe only told a fraction of the truth. IMO, there were others present and I believe one of them had physicaaly restrained McIlwaine whilst Robb was being attacked. Strange, Burcombe never mentioned the taxi. Had these murders taken place in a rural part of England, the reaction would have been vastly different with the locals and media in absolute panic. Police would have assumed the killings were part of a satanic ritual and every Goth or Marilyn Manson fan within a 50-mile radius would have been taken in for questioning.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Is this how you feel about a title?


I would like if you could please to answer on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland_Collaboration or here in response to my comment about the degree of feeling you have whether the title Republic of Ireland being wrong, to see whether it falls under WP:TITLE as a non neutral name. We just need to see if what a couple of people say there reflects reality or not. Thanks. Dmcq (talk) 12:12, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't even think about responding to this bait Sarah. The posting ed. has been warned to knock off the cold calling. RashersTierney (talk) 09:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You can read this warning on my talk page at User talk:Dmcq and you can read the discussion at where I pointed above and make your own mind up. I wouldn't mind knowing what's going on in RashersTierney and Fmph's heads that they have this response. Dmcq (talk) 10:09, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll have to "phone a friend" on this and ask my mentor John what he thinks I should (or shouldn't) do. Calling John! Sarah777 (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Good call. Not saying you shouldn't be free to express a view at the page, just that you shouldn't feel put on to 'jump to'. RashersTierney (talk) 21:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me look at this Sarah, I might be a few hours as I have friends round. --John (talk) 21:52, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Having had a quick look at it, I don't think you should comment directly there. However I don't see any problem if you have a strong view on the question, in describing your view here or at my talk. While I will not proxy for you, I will give careful consideration based on your response (if you make one) towards commenting myself. Does that make sense? --John (talk) 00:28, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Perfect sense, thanks. I think I'll pass on this one! Sarah777 (talk) 02:07, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * This website is such a cesspool that a highly intelligent grown woman can't even speak her own mind. John, I think Sarah can easily answer this. Sarah, I may have unintentionally put you into this difficulty. Dmcq asked "I'd like to know if there are people who are really really unhappy that the title of the article is Republic of Ireland". That was a challenge of sorts to things Evertype and I have written about missing editors. To respond about people who are unhappy, I mentioned me, you and others. I'll say here for anyone reading: Sarah777 has fought consistently for years against, and is not at all satisfied with, the RoI title. If that is correct, can you confirm my mention of you? For example, write a sentence in agreement without discussing why, such as "What Sswonk wrote is accurate, I am exceedingly unhappy with the title, and do not want to participate in discussions due to discomfort with the atmosphere" or the like? Doing so couldn't possibly cause anyone sane to challenge your right to saying it, and would give weight to the claims we are making. Sswonk (talk) 05:19, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sswonk, I find that comment very close to seriously inappropriate behaviour. It gives the distinct impression of trying to put words in another user's mouth. It is clearly against the spirit of canvassing, and it smacks of trying to 'stir up trouble' (for possible want of a better phrase) by way of tempting Sarah to go against the advice of her mentor, possibly in the hope of getting her involved in a large and potentially uncivil discussion where consensus is not currently matching your views. Please consider this a formal warning. Sarah is to be commended for her actions in voluntarily consulting with her mentor and then taking his advice, particularly on a subject she is know to have strong views about. Having explicitly declined to contribute to the discussion, as is the right of every contributor to this project, you should not be hounding her. Crossposted to user talk:Sswonk and user talk:Sarah777. Additionally noted on the discussion page. Thryduulf (talk) 13:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope it is safe for me to say here that Sswonk accurately reflects my opinion, that I thank him for his post above and that he has been a tremendouis (and not uncritical) support for me on Wiki for the past few years. Thanks Steve. Sarah777 (talk) 17:33, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Thryduulf, consider this a formal warning: you are being a WP:DICK. My request to an adult person did not in any way "suggest tempting Sarah to go against the advice of her mentor". I asked her to confirm, on her page via a single sentence response, what is a blatant truth, that she opposes the title. I can only thank you for your fantastic summation that what I asked is "in the hope of getting her involved in a large and potentially uncivil discussion", since it illustrates very well why I consider this website a cesspool. For someone of your caliber to become an administrator after only six months of work in 2005, and proceed to consider that license hold the views you do and lord over people who disagree with you is a severe insult to the intelligence of the populations of wiki editors and readers alike. I formally reject your authority, because you use it to stifle critics, prop up your ego and spread fantastic, poisonous lies about other editors. No one should have to put up with this, I certainly won't. cc: Thryduulf talk, Sswonk talk. Sswonk (talk) 14:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I shall consider myself as having not got any answer. Thanks for your consideration. Dmcq (talk) 13:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I cannot see anything "seriously inappropriate" in those comments, nor do I find any canvassing there. I believe Sswonk's characterization of Sarah777's view is accurate, and I see him simply asking her to confirm it, in response to a query by Dmcq. I think Thryduulf's "formal warning" is inappropriate, and I think he owes Sswonk an apology. -- Evertype·✆ 14:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have responded to Sswonk on his talk page. See also WP:WQA. Thryduulf (talk) 14:59, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Following advice at WP:WQA, I have copied the discussion to WP:AN/I. I do not know whether discussion will also continue at WP:WQA or not. I don't think there will be discussion about you (Sarah) in either discussion, but I've been wrong about such things before so it's best to inform you of the possibility. Thryduulf (talk) 15:37, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Sswonk (talk) 15:21, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I just checked here and it's true that you agreed to avoid participating in naming discussions relating to Ireland/RoI. Far from being intended to politically censor you, this condition is intended to let you edit without getting into trouble. I personally would be open to renegotiating this aspect of your topic ban as it's been six months, but I think pending that it would be better to stick to what you agreed meantime. --John (talk) 15:45, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Just occasionally I wish I was happy with using an expletive. I am truly sorry I ever brought any of all this here. Dmcq (talk) 16:24, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Which road?
Hi Sarah; how's she cuttin'? I saw a file you uploaded,, and while the description says it is the N11, the filename calls it the N81. Can you resolve the contradiction? Thanks. — O'Dea (talk) 03:49, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's used in the N81 road (Ireland) article, so I guess the description is wrong. --HighKing (talk) 01:27, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Good spot! It is indeed the N81. Sarah777 (talk) 17:39, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have corrected the description at the photo's page. Sarah777 (talk) 17:40, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Gurra meela mohaguth. — O'Dea (talk) 03:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Italian anyone?
How's your Italian Sarah. Might have a little favour to ask if you're game ball. RashersTierney (talk) 10:58, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I know nothing of Sarah's Italian language skills, but if she doesn't have what you're looking for then there are 5,061 people who claim some level of Italian who can be found in Category:User it (I'm not one of them, my Italian extends to perhaps 10 words at most!). Thryduulf (talk) 17:07, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My Italian is pretty damn good - if I say so myself! (Not quite my mother tongue - but my mother's tongue it is!) I can speak it (almost) fluently) - my reading/writing is similar to my ability in Irish. Though nowhere near as good as my effortless command of Hiberno-English :) Sarah777 (talk) 17:46, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Was wondering after seeing this comment if you would be willing to source a few Italian news refs. A local perspective on the incident itself and something on local opinion on the international reaction would be great. No prob. if you'd rather not. Best. RashersTierney (talk) 18:42, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * To be honest Rashers, the article looks like a cheap-shot at alleged Italian racism. When Italians walk past Italian beggars (as they do) it's just indifference to one's fellow man. It's a bit like 1,000 young lads get assaulted each week in Dublin, mostly natives attacked by other natives - but when an immigrant is the victim "racism" is the assumed default reason. I'm not convinced. Sarah777 (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * btw, this isn't to deny there are significant numbers of racists in every country; America, Europe, Japan, Russia, China - wherever. It is obvious that racism is part of the human condition. 19:31, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's OK. RashersTierney (talk) 19:43, 26 November 2011 (UTC)