User talk:Sarandioti/Archive 1

Madness
Welcome; please say hello

Welcome
Hi, Sarandioti. This is NOT some automated message...it's from a real person. You can talk to me right now. Welcome to Wikipedia! I noticed you've just joined, and wanted to give you a few tips to get you started. If you have any questions, please talk to us. The tips below should help you to get started. Best of luck!  Chzz  ►  22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

IRC
Hey,

It was great to chat with you; hope we'll be seeing you again.

I thought it might be helpful if I coped in some of the many things we discussed, so that you have the links if you ever need 'em;


 * WP:TIND (There is no deadline)
 * William Windsor (goat)
 * WP:ANI - to report serious problems, such as racism
 * WP:FA Featured articles - we mentined 1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy
 * WP:PUMP Village pump; good place to get community input
 * Goatse
 * Systemic bias
 * NOT
 * Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy
 * Flying Spaghetti Monster
 * Articles for deletion/Earth (2nd nomination)
 * WP:TIGER
 * WP:SPIDER

Cheers,  Chzz  ►  14:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 22:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Pershendetje patriot, si e kam Saranden?Balkanian`s word (talk) 10:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Shume mire eshte Saranda vella faleminderit. Ti si je? Shkon mire zhvillimi i Wikipedias Shqiptare?--Sarandioti (talk) 10:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lere mos e pyet, shume pak veta dhe shumica prej nesh nuk kemi kohe :-). Duhet te njihemi edhe une nga sr jam.Balkanian`s word (talk) 11:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Msn ke vella? Te flasim per disa ceshtje, dhe zhvillimin e wikipedias Shqiptare. Po ke me dergo e-mail.--Sarandioti (talk) 11:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Kam me jep adresen tende te te bej add.Balkanian`s word (talk) 12:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Kam te "hapur" setting qe jep mundesine te me dergojne email. Ma dergo msn-in tend me email. Ketu e shikojne shume, prandaj spo e ve--Sarandioti (talk) 13:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Shih
Ej, hidhi nje sy kesaj. Kam shume kohe qe po e pergatis, po nuk e kam mbaruar akoma.Balkanian`s word (talk) 15:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Azis Tahir Ajdonati
Hi, have you some english speaking book/source that mentions him (the same with Jakup Veseli)?Alexikoua (talk) 10:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The particular reference is one of the most reliable on certain issues. However, even if we didnt have a source, it is clear that he is from Paramythia. Check his surname, it is Ajdonati, he took it from the Albanian name of Paramythia. Have a nice day.--Sarandioti (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

You are relying on a 19th century work (1861), there was an consensus about outdated sources. Kountouriotis was Arvanite, according to more reliable sources mentioned on the Arvanites article. Alexikoua (talk) 11:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Kountrouriotis was indeed an Arvanite, which is NOT mentioned in the article. For the time being do not revert anything. I'll find a more "approriate" means to include that he was arvanite --Sarandioti (talk) 11:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

you have rendered the article unreadable, no problem with the unreferenced setences. i added the Despotate's foundation+ deleted Aidonati. Would be interested if he is mentioned in a english speaking source. Alexikoua (talk) 11:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

why dont u give an inline? that's why i deleted your uncomfirmed claim, seems you always are not used to cooperate. If u mean this language was spoken by a (uncomfirmed) number of inhabitants that lived in the area, its a clear pov pushing and doesn't need to be mentioned on the template. In that region lived or passed also: Italian, Latin, Vlach, Bulgarian, Serbian, Arabian, Turkish, French, Aromanian speakers.Alexikoua (talk) 09:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

The Albanians were one of the main groups living in epirus, my source is totally valid. You have no right to remove it. I see no POV here, as Albanians were a main group of the area.--Sarandioti (talk) 09:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Why dont u relax? The stuff you are reading is brain damaging you, be carefull. Alexikoua (talk) 20:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Preveza, Arta
To add the Albanian name of a town in the lead, there have to be native speakers of the language linving there. That is not the case in Arta and Preveza, so please stop this nonsense. WP:NCGN is crystal-clear in this case. Your reference is a medieval history book, which is irrelevant and proves nothing. --Athenean (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Cham Albanians lived even in those areas, so the same rules that apply to Paramythia, Margariti, Philiates etc. apply to them --Sarandioti (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope, they didn't. You don't have a reference for that anyway, and Chams don't live there now. The only reason I agreed to leave the Albanian name in the lead for Igoumenitsa is because there is a reference that mentions that Albanian speakers still live there now. This is not the case for Preveza, and certainyl not Arta. --Athenean (talk) 21:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

As I said same rules that apply to Margariti, Igoumenitsa, Philiates, Paramythia aply to Arta, Preveza, Janina. Would you like the issue to be moderated by a third party? --Sarandioti (talk) 21:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There were never large numbers of Chams in Preveza, Arta, and Ioannina. Repeating yourself over and over won't help.  If we go by your logic, we should also add the Greek name in Korytsa, Vlore, Durres, etc...  These articles were perfectly stable before you came in.  --Athenean (talk) 21:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Sarandioti if u r righ, this means that on the same basis Greek names should be added in a number of modern Albanian cities in which Greeks lived ones. Well, I believe the Jicerek line leaves only Shkodra outside the Greek-speaking zone. Alexikoua (talk) 22:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you did not understand what I said, I suggested that the Albanian names should be added as these areas were part of the Albanian principalities and the Cameria region. As for your comments there is a complete difference between nationality/usage of language/religion. The Jirecek line is related not to languge of inhabitants but to sphere of influence/power. Claiming that south of the jirecek line all people were speaking greek as their mother tongue is the same as claiming that north of the line they were all latin speakers. I believe I am clear. Best Regards. --Sarandioti (talk) 22:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

and what language was official in the byzantine empire in which epirus nova/illyrica greaca was a province? let me guess Alexikoua (talk) 10:22, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Alexikua the issue has been clarified by the intervention of the admin in the 3RR report against you. No further discussion is necessary.(2 admins already have supported what I added)--Sarandioti (talk) 10:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Lale
Si te kam Saranda ;)? Digjo shiko mos mblidhemi njehere ketu Mos bejme ndonje gje te hajrit,nejse flasim.--Taulant23 (talk) 21:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Patjeter ja do hap nje llogari atje dhe hidhi nje sy kesaj harte. --Taulant23 (talk) 23:02, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Greek names, Albanian names
Sarandioti my friend, what is it you are trying to do here? I mean, really. Do you think your campaign to remove every single Greek name from cities in southern Albania, and to add the Albanian name of every single Greek city in Ipiros, has even the slightest chance of success? It is as hopeless as it is nationalistic. Like it or not, there are Greek Wikipedians on the English Wikipedia. Lots of them. With lots of experience and a good command of the English Language. With these articles watchlisted. And they are not going anywhere. So, take this as a friendly suggestion, please stop this madness. If you chose to continue down this path, it will only lead to a quick exit from wikipedia. --Athenean (talk) 00:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Athenean you are accusing me, without any valid reasons. I added names only in Cham inhabited areas, while you try to add names in towns with no significant greek populations, with methods like "the name x comes from the greek name x". And I didnt remove your attempts, I just told you to add them below.--Sarandioti (talk) 08:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2009
in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text below. At Sarandë, per a complaint at the 3RR noticeboard. EdJohnston (talk) 14:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment on block
Hello, I'm the admin who closed the 3RR case. The 3RR violation was on the Sarandë article. Though there was a general pattern of revert warring by Sarandioti on the language issue, I did not have to rely on that for my conclusion, since the four reverts within 24 hours on Sarandë were quite clear. EdJohnston (talk) 14:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I did not know that the 3RR was based on 24 hours system. I thought that it was related to date, rather than amount of hours. Could you plese unblock me since I did not know its exact function. If I knew that it refered to 24 hours, I would not break the rule. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you explain how you knew so much about Wikipedia when you first arrived here? I assume you are a reincarnation of an experienced editor. EdJohnston (talk) 16:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Not really. I just studied the templates before starting to write, and also talked to some experienced editors in the help channel. About my appeal: Could you please unblock me? I didnt know that 3RR was related to a 24 hours basis, and thoguht that it actually refers to date. I dont like reverting other peoples' edits, but look what Alexikua added now that I'm blocked in the Berat article. He added 3 names. If we take a closer we will see that Bulcheriopolis and Antipatrea are medieval and ancient greek names, therefore they are in contrast to the WP:Usage of Modern Names, and he also added a greek version of the Albanian name Berat as Βερατιον. However, there is no greek community in Berat, something that is clear in the article. I am blocked because of a mistaken interpretation of the rule, but the one who reported me did this, in order to promote his nationalist beliefs, as long as I am blocked. --Sarandioti (talk) 16:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Note to admins: He also has 5RR in Paramythia.  This is an extremely disruptive user with a battleground mentality.  His contribs log reveals nothing but edit-warring over the past few days.  --Athenean (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

And I have a 24 hour block for my mistakes, because I did not fully understand the 3RR policy. But you who are much longer than me here, wrote to me just because I moved a picture to another section and replaced it with a more proper one, Athenian: (rv because 1) that is one ugly-ass picture. What does this show about you? You say that my log reveals nothing more than edit-warring. I ahve contributed to many other artciles, but lets see your log for these days: reverts, reverts, and personal attacks against other editors. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sarandioti, if you come back and continue editing as you were before, you probably will not last very long on Wikipedia. Since you have some knowledge of Albanian issues and viewpoints, I urge you to try being diplomatic for a change. You are editing articles subject to WP:ARBMAC in a very belligerent manner and you are missing no opportunity to promote the Albanian cause. What kind of a future are you expecting here? WP:ARBMAC says: Wikipedia is a project to create a neutral encyclopedia. Use of the site for other purposes—including, but not limited to, advocacy, propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, and political or ideological struggle—is prohibited. EdJohnston (talk) 18:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

And I 100% try to maintain that. But that has to be maintained by all parties. I added one proper picture and just because I moved the modified version of the object in a lower section, the editor Athenian wrote to among others rv because 1) that is one ugly-ass picture. I did not react. Shouldnt he be awarded a block for such comments? And of course now that I am blocked for 24h I cannot report him. So since you are here, could please tell me what should be done? --Sarandioti (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Please, this is not a right wiki attitude, Saradioti... just the time u r unblocked u start to make the same reverts, without any discussion at any level. What should I conclude about?Alexikoua (talk) 16:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

That is not true at all Alexikoua, because you knew WHY they would get remvoed eventually. You know that they are in contrast to WP:Useage of modern names, and the fact that in those areas there are no greek populations explaining the greek name. Did I revert Himara? No. Did Athenian re-add a whole section whose removal we all decided except him? Yes. You absolutely know that YOU(and Athenian) are vandalising articles, but you still continue. --Sarandioti (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Your mistake? what was that? You mean reverting and vandalizing? You did it again. Δις εξαμαρτείν ουκ ανδρός σοφούAlexikoua (talk) 17:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

No I didn't. I broke once by mistake the 3RR, and I do not intend to do it again.--Sarandioti (talk) 17:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WP:ARBMAC warning
Hello Sarandioti. I am officially notifying you of ARBMAC. Note that any uninvolved administrator may impose sanctions under this Arbcom case. Sanctions may include a ban from editing any articles in this topic area. I am taking this step because you appear to have learned nothing from your recent block, and you have resumed your contentious nationalistic editing since your block expired. EdJohnston (talk) 17:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, for notifying me but I have no relation to ARBMAC. I have not edited articles regarding that topic, and do not intend to. --Sarandioti (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You know pelasgian, very cool.Alexikoua (talk) 21:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Is this under arbitration?--Sarandioti (talk) 21:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Admins may issue sanctions under ARBMAC on any articles related to the Balkans. Your edits are unfortunately quite similar to the nationalistic fiddling that ARBMAC was addressed to. Under the heading 'Area of conflict' we read: Many of these conflicts are grounded in matters external to Wikipedia, including long-standing historical, national, and ethnic disputes in the region. The area of conflict in this case shall therefore be considered to be the entire set of Balkan-related articles, broadly interpreted.


 * If you would have the patience to wait to get consensus before changing articles, none of this furor would be necessary. So far, you seem to be the perfect example of a nationalistic edit-warrior, promoting the Albanian cause at every opportunity. EdJohnston (talk) 22:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

But I have used sources, in everything I have done, and have won a consensus. What should I do? Wait for nationalist greeks to change their thoughts? Look at most articles. I have opened topics in talkpages. --Sarandioti (talk) 22:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure we can find a common point, why dont u just sit and talk together?Alexikoua (talk) 22:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I do, I sincerely do, but look at yourfriend Athenian adding setions when the rest hav e decided to talk about it. And I have opened the talkpage at Himara, why dont you join? I am already there. --Sarandioti (talk) 06:33, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

You are surprising me, about the ancient Greek origin of the Souliotes (that's pro-Greek and unsourced off course). Alexikoua (talk) 06:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a small mistake...hehe --Sarandioti (talk) 07:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Men, I know u r good in arguements, but have more patience. I notice u just broke the 3rr again, tell me one good reason not to report u?Alexikoua (talk) 07:04, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

where? By mistake, if I did it, I reassure you --Sarandioti (talk) 07:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

You're mistaken, I checked them all. --Sarandioti (talk) 07:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems that's your only job here, ever tought that u can discuss topics?Alexikoua (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I try to discuss, but its clearly a monolog since no one listens and does "οτι του καπνισει" --Sarandioti (talk) 07:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

On Himara, for example, whats the problem about the Greek name? I mean why then a represantative of the Greek minority in Albania has became mayor there, it proves that there are Greeks living there, isn't it?Alexikoua (talk) 07:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

He is of vlach origin from the village of Kurvelesh, and he was voted because he promised that he would not sell lands in non-albanian companies. Now no one wants him, plus he cannot be re-elected as he is a convicted person. Also in grece mr. Pagalos is voted, does that prove that the majority of greece are arvanites? --XXxLRKistxXx (talk) 07:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Her' I come!
You'll never walk alone --XXxLRKistxXx (talk) 07:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

LONG LIVE LRK! --Sarandioti (talk) 07:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 11:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom
Sarandioti, your town-names case isn't ripe for Arbcom, they take cases only after a lot more efforts at other forms of dispute resolution have failed. And let me tell you, you're lucky this is going to be declined, because going through an Arbcom case is no fun (as I am experiencing myself right now in a different case). I can try and have a look at this later, but you must first stop the revert-warring, and you also really need to stop those efforts at co-ordinated campaigning off-wiki and recruiting friends to join the dispute. I'm currently rather busy getting the arbitrators off my own back, but once I'm free I'll have a look and see if we can solve that case. In general, these "I want my national name on your article" conflicts come up every now and again, and they are rather silly, so please consider if you really want to keep squabbling over such matters. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Mate, look at the talkpages I have continuously tried to regulate this somehow, but neither ALexikoua, nor Athenean listen. They just keep reverting, and then the other editors revert them back, and, well, you cant stop a river once it starts flowing. --Sarandioti (talk) 13:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Blocked
You have been blocked for 1 month for violating Wikipedia's sockpuppetry policy by using XXxLRKistxXx to continue an edit war across multiple pages. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 14:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

It is a not sockpuppet account! Do you have proof? or just blank accusations?--Sarandioti (talk) 14:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am a CheckUser. From my technical analysis, I determined that you engaged in abusive sockpuppetry by using XXxLRKistxXx for edit warring. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:18, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, could you please re-check? Just one re-check I ask for nothing more. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

And why would I have a sockpuppet NOW, a few hours ago I filed an arbitration case!?!?!. Does it look normal to you that? To ahve a sockpuppet and task for arbitration? --Sarandioti (talk) 15:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

If you have doubts, put me on probation for a month but you cant just block for a month just like that. Earleier I made 4Re and I reported myself, so why would I do that if I ntended to maintain a sockpuppet? --Sarandioti (talk) 15:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Your unblock request
Sarandioti, if Nishkid blocked you after a WP:CHECKUSER test, it means he found that the other account and yours were editing from the same IP address, i.e. most likely from the same computer. I cannot know what exactly he found, because the details are secret, but I have no reason to doubt his finding, and given this fact combined with your behaviour as allies in an edit war, and the fact that you yourself have done hardly anything on this project than assist others in edit-warring, you'll have a lot of explaining to do to convince people that you are all good-faith contributors. There's no way I could unblock you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

No need for you to intervene I have started to regulate the issue with NIshkid himself. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Per our e-mail disucssion, I have decided to reduce your block length to three days. In the interim, please familiarize yourself with WP:SOCK and Wikipedia's other policies. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:42, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I am glad we reached a reasonable agreement --Sarandioti (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Courtesy notice
Hello Sarandioti. You're being discussed at User talk:EdJohnston and also at User talk:Nishkid64. EdJohnston (talk) 15:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I know. I already have sent a message to Nishkid as a reply to the accusations towards me by the greek nationalist Athenean. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Arbitration request declined
Hello, Sarandioti. A recent arbitration request in which you were named as a party, "Arbitration request on greek/albanian zones", has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. If this is still an issue that needs resolution, please pursue other areas in dispute resolution first, such as a third opinion, request for comment, or informal or formal mediation (preferably roughly in that order). Should you need assistance getting yourself and the other editors involved started on one of these processes, please feel free to contact me or another administrator. For the Arbitration Committee, Hers fold  (t/a/c) 17:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

List of towns in Albania that may need attention
Hello Sarandioti. It seems you believe that some of the towns in southern Albania should not have Greek names included in their articles. Can you make a list of the towns that you think need to have their names reconsidered? If you believe that any demographic data should be used, when deciding what names should go into a town article, can you say which censuses you consider reliable?

In your opinion, what parts of Albania currently contain a Greek minority? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Firstly not "in my opinion", but according to the OFFICIAL data, which is not questioned by the greek state.
 * According to the official data, the minority zone is :99 villages in the districts of Gjirokaster and Sarande. NOT in the towns of Saranda, Delvine, Gjirokaster, but in 99 villages and communities such as Dropull. Needless to say that no town or village in the District of Vlore is a minority area, but the greek editors keep adding a greek name in Himare, wqhich is in the Vlore district. You will see in dropoll article history that I have made no changes there because indeed it is an official greek minority zone, but as you know I have continuously removed greek names from gjirokaster, sarande(my hometown), delvine, himare because they are NOT included in the minority villages/towns as always according to OFFICIAL data, which has never been questioned by ANY state. Certain greek editors like Athenean and Alexikoua kept adding them by using unofficial data by various non-official organisatios whose "research" is recognised by NO ONE, or by mere reasearchers without any concrete reliability other than their own beliefs. So how are we going to add names in albanian towns which the greek state itself does not see as minority zones? And even if we recognise them as reliable, then we would have to remove the greek names of other towns like Himare, because Athenean's and ALexikoua sources claim that in Vlore District(where the town of Himare is located) there are only 202 greeksnational, so even according to their sources their edits are not correct. But in Himare article both of them use tom winnifrith a vlach-interested independent researcher(no official reliability), to say that the majority indeed is greek in himare and from ancient times!(byzantine sources like Cantacuzene name them Αλβανοι αυτονομοι νομαδες/Albanian autonomous nomads). Of course they are never going to accept that their edits are erroneous, and will keep reverting official status of the towns, to dubious pro-greek status, and will never get a 3RR because each one makes 2 reverts per day. Of course greek organisations, and greek/pro-greek researchers may have arguments against the official data(like every minority in the world), but that is the official data, and you may question it as much as you want, but OFFICIAL MINORITY DATA is the one that should be used for names on towns no notions by  dubious researchers and various authors. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

--Sarandioti (talk) 18:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The links you propose are based on the totalitarian;s regime 1989 census, however dictatorship is long forgotten in Albania (since 1991). According to the Albanian government's 1995 statement there are also Greeks in many other places out of the so called totalitarian regime's 'minority zone', Petiffer is quite clear about that (we had already talked and given the appropriate url;s and books several times).Alexikoua (talk) 13:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Aleixikoua you can call whatever you whatever you want, but the OFFICIAL data is what the greek government recognises as the greek minority zone. Read above, I explained that every author, researcher or anyone can claim whatever he wants, but official data is accepted by all countries. Pro-Albanian writers say that there is no minority at all, and they have the right to say it, but it is not official data. Pettifer or anybody can write as pro-greek/greek researcher, but again we cannot use them as a source instead of official data, just because we *like* what they say. PLease do not write anything else, before EdJohnston replies to what I wrote, in order to maintain a stable conversation. --Sarandioti (talk) 13:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And the link I added is not my link, it is a source used by YOU and ATHENEAN, to add greek names and minority numbers in Sarande and Delvine. So now you're calling your OWN source, inaccurate, just because it doesnt verify all your claims?Hmm... --Sarandioti (talk) 13:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Albania, has not official ethnographic data. The one you say are estimates, and they are added by Balkanian [] (not me and Athenean), without consensus reached on talk page. The way you act seems your live in wiki will be very short. I'm sorry u r too ethnically povish in this community.Alexikoua (talk) 15:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Did I say anything about balkanian's estimates? No. I said official data is the one to be used as it is accepted by all countries. Simple as that. And please respect the fact that I asked you not to write again until EdJohnston replied to my reply to his question. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Why u speak very good Greek? suppose in your town that language is widespread.Alexikoua (talk) 15:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I speak very good greek because I live in Greece. Saranda is a Cham population center, very few greeks live there. --Sarandioti (talk) 16:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have added indents to the above comments to clarify who said what. Anyone may undo these changes if you prefer the original format. Sarandioti linked to a report given to the Council of Europe by Albania about the location of its official minorities. While the report was presented in 2001, it relies on the 1989 census, one that was criticized above by Alexikoua since it was taken under the Albanian dictatorship, and in his view may have undercounted the Greeks. Who is Pettifer? Is there some better-quality data on the location of the Greek minority that can be found in reliable sources, even though it does not form any part of the official position taken by Albania and Greece? If this was already discussed in detail somewhere else, can somebody give a pointer? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Pettifer is just an author, who expressed his view on the issue, as there are other authors that claim that there are no greeks but hellenized albanians in Albania. Both opinions exist, the one raises the number of the minority while the other erases the whole minority issues. NO, we will not rely to anyone, and we mustnt, we should rely only on official data. Official data is clear:99 villages including Dropull, Dervican etc. I ask nothing more than the use of official data accepted by both countries. And I want these changes to be made by an admin, and afterwards the articles to be protected. Unfortunately, not EdJohnston, because all parties who have "researched" the issue, either take a 1)progreek stance and multiply minority numbers 2)proalbanian stance lowering minority numbers to practically zero. Therefore we should use only official data. Alexikoua may argue against it as much as he wants, but that data was accepted as legal and correct by the GREEK STATE. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:23, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sarandioti's claim that Pettifer is "just an author" is disingenuous and empty. Pettifer is a specialist on the subject, and his book is verifiable and reliable.  Sarandioti obviously does not know about WP:RS and WP:V.  His insistence on using official data is also a case in point.  Official data, expecially when it concerns minorities or is from totalitarian dictatorships, needs to be taken with a grain of salt.  Wikipedia does not care whether data is official or not.  The only thing that matters is whether the source is neutral and verifiable.  Pettifer is both.  The Albanian census from 1989 is neither.  --Athenean (talk) 20:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Pettifer= author, Official data=official data. It is recognised even by the greek state. Greek organisations may believe whatever they want, call the data however they like, but facts are facts and official data should be used not the opinion of an individual. You may call it totalitarian regime creation, or anything else, but this data is used by your own country, so there's no point in what you're saying. --Sarandioti (talk) 21:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

How is Pettifer a reliable source when what you cite of his studies about vlachs are broad generalising statments about whole towns like Himare, Sarande and Delvine being centers of the greek minority or even majority greek towns in their population? Where are the hard numbers from Pettifer? How is he a specialist on the subject? Is he a ethnographer, historian, archaeologist, sociologist? Pettifer is merely a journalist and author who has written tourist guide books on the balkan region, by traveling around the region. In that light any traveler of the region can be considered an expert on the history and ethnography of the region? This is anything but serious, and Alexikoua and you Athenean are extreme nationalistic POV pushers who want to grossly inflate the members and zones of the greek minority whithin Albania in order to represent southern Albanian as Greek in character, culture and population which it is certainly not.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There is no point in continuing a discussion with people who have no understanding of how wikipedia works and who repeat the same empty statements over and over. --Athenean (talk) 22:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I added all arguments and made the case clear, all YOU have done is repeat empty statements like "not reliable because well albania was a communist state". 1)POV statement 2)data is recognised by everyone even greece. So I think it is YOU the one who has a problem here friend probably because you cant prove your greek nationalist claims. --Sarandioti (talk) 22:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Athenean, the only one who makes empty staments and cites travelers as serious authorities in ethnography is you.--I Pakapshem (talk) 14:06, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Yellow Bar of Death
Let me show you it. There it was. Now it's gone again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Would really like to say that I understood, but I don't. That was unsuccessful. hehe Btw since you seem available now take a look at the topic above this one. --Sarandioti (talk) 13:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Blocked for edit-warring in Souliotes
You are blocked for edit-warring in the aforementioned article. I block you, because I regard what happened in the article yesterday as totally unacceptable: almost 20 reverts in a row from both sides within 20 hours, during which, when one user reverted for the third time (including you), he was succeeded by another one. Your rights to question my action are presented below. You were already once blocked for editwarring, so this time the block is 48 hours. Regards.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC) You have been blocked from editing for violating Wikipedia policy. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by replying here on your talk page by adding the text. You may also email the blocking administrator or any administrator from this list instead, or mail unblock-en-l@mail.wikimedia.org.

--Sarandioti (talk) 10:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia e-mail
Hey, Sarandioti. Thanks for your e-mail. I've spent a lot of time analysing the edit war, and have posted that analysis and my comments at Talk:Cham Albanians. I have to say, having looked through the dispute, I found the manner of your involvement in the case at times to be provocative, aggressive and simply reckless. I have commented on this towards the end of my post; feel free to have a read. I won't be taking any action before full discussion has been held; there is no deadline, and I'd rather be thorough than reactionary. I will have to seek the opinions of another uninvolved editor in any case, in order to apply any form of page protection. For the time being, wait out until your block expires, and then use the opportunity to come to the table and participate in constructive discussion. I look forward to having you back in the dialogue soon. haz (talk) 20:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure. If anything else comes up, I'll just email you. --Sarandioti (talk) 20:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Archives
Every 20-25 topics I will archive talks --Sarandioti (talk) 14:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Apollonia
I agree a Greek (maybe corinthian) colony with the help of Illyrians. This exact temple has Greek inscriptions on it. Why should be changed?Alexikoua (talk) 21:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Because the greek minority is composed of 3 main groups:vlachs, hellenised albanians, greeks. Majority are vlachs in the greek minority, and the colony was corinthian-illyrian.--Sarandioti (talk) 22:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ki pak kujdes te levizja e valles came, se faktikisht te duhen argumente per te. Do ishte me mire te hyje ne diskutim dhe me pas ta levizje. dicka te tille e kam bere edhe une me pare, por pa sukses (nuk kisha me sa duket argumente te mjaftueshme), pa hyre ne diskutim nese eshte e drejte apo e gabuar.Balkanian`s word (talk) 20:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Blocked again
Under the authority of WP:ARBMAC, as an uninvolved administrator, I have blocked you for two weeks for edit-warring on multiple Balkans-related articles. To me, as someone who has never seen you before, it appears as though your previous block had no effect whatsoever. You merely picked up where you left off, and even extended your tendentious editing to a few more pages. Please note that further edit warring on the expiry of this block will, if I see it, result in a permanent topic ban from all Balkans-related articles and their talk pages. Wikipedia is not a battleground. Do not treat it as one. A log of this block will be made at ARBMAC. If you wish to contest this block, you may do so using on this talk page. J.delanoy gabs adds 21:33, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

You edit warred at Arvanites, among others. That combined with your other tendentious edits in nationalistic areas justifies a block. Please see WP:DIS and Tendentious editing Triplestop (talk) 01:02, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I changed one number!!! from 19 to 20. And I was totally right! Pontian migrations took place in the 20th century! look for yourself. So how did I edit war?? --Sarandioti (talk) 09:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

About Arvanites, the Population Exchange at 1923 has nothing to do with them, as well as with the Pontians, your change from 19th to 20th wasn't accompanied with a single source. As for your edits that aren't reverted yet (like Himara), I'll check them soon although I feel much of the stuff should be reverted (like the Greek presence you deleted in the lead-sourced by Winnifrith).Alexikoua (talk) 10:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I deleted greek presence from antiquity, which is not an issue winnifrith is a specialist. He is just a traveller/reasearcher not a historian. And Cancuzene the byzantine noble refers to them as Albanian autonomous nomads. So who should be used as reliable? canctuzene a byzantine nobleman who had no intention of propaganda, or winnifrith someone of dubious profile who has a pecular interest in vlachs --Sarandioti (talk) 10:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you get it. Taken from WP:TEND. Tendentious editing is editing which is partisan, biased or skewed taken as a whole. It does not conform to the neutral point of view, and fails to do so at a level more general than an isolated comment that was badly thought out. On Wikipedia, the term also carries the connotation of repetitive attempts to insert or delete content which is resisted by multiple other editors. This fits your edits perfectly. A block is indeed justified. Triplestop (talk) 20:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't take it too seriously, even Wikipedia's best admins have had their bad times. After your block I advise working on less controversial areas. Just find anything that interests you besides national things. Triplestop (talk) 14:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Final warning
You don't seem to get this site. Stop edit-warring, and use the discussion page before you change contentious articles. If you don't stop, I will block you indefinitely. J.delanoy gabs adds 21:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * emm,,,where did i edit war?--Sarandioti (talk) 21:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * here, here, here, here, here, and here. J.delanoy gabs adds  22:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

1,2 warn the other guy also, he started it. 3,4 just 1 edit. is that edit war?--Sarandioti (talk) 22:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)