User talk:SarekOfVulcan/Archive 11

What am I to do?
Hi Sarek... I need your advice as an admin (allbeit an involved admin). You have now seen a typical interaction between me an Doncram. I have tried to be polite and focus on the article itself... but he makes it very difficult.

Obviously the best solution would be for me to simply to avoid him but, as he is now heavily into creating and editing articles on Masonic buildings and structures (which intersects with Freemasonry, one of my main subject areas), doing so is going to be difficult.

Any suggestions? Blueboar (talk) 15:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, no. As you're both acting in good faith, there's very little that can be done. You could try to put together an WP:RFC/U, but to have it certified, you need to show that you've tried to solve the problem with him (however you would best define that), and that there are two (other?) editors who have tried to resolve the same problem. As I frequently take more of a confrontational role than a problem-solving role, I wouldn't be able to certify, though I might be able to endorse after it's certified.
 * Bear in mind, also, that he could probably file an RFC right back at you. Some of your editing has bordered on WP:Tendentious editing, though I don't have time (or desire) to assemble diffs to make the case.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sigh... ok, thanks. I suppose I will just have to live with it, and do my best not to let him goad me into reacting to him. Blueboar (talk) 16:40, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

75.85.53.84
He continues to edit war over uncited or poorly cited genre changes, and to accuse those reverting him of "wikistalking" and "vandalism". Would you mind?  R ad io pa th y  •talk•  00:15, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * At least xe is trying to cite sources, which is more than can be said for many genre adders/changers. On which point, I have to ask: What is your source for changing these things back, Radiopathy?  What sources do you have for [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=387985176&oldid=387950788 this edit] for example?  It's all very well waving abbreviations such as "WP:RS" around in edit summaries, but not acting upon the things abbreviated whilst doing so is at best a mixed message.  And if you're basing your evaluation of content edits upon the fact that 75.85.53.84 doesn't have an account, you should note that the content that you are reinstating [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=historysubmit&diff=64886247&oldid=64882316 was added by an editor without an account in the first place] — one that didn't cite sources or supply edit summaries, to boot.  Please practice what you preach.  You're removing citations and reinstating content that you aren't providing sources to support.  It's no wonder that another editor regards this as poor editing on your part.  It may not be vandalism, but it's certainly not article improvement, nor is it something that you should be edit warring to keep doing.  Uncle G (talk) 02:20, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a very disingenuous argument; this IP came here and changed, without a word of discussion, genres that had been stable at articles for a long time. He's accusing me of "wikistalking" and calls my edits "vandalism". He uses citations from sources that do not meet the criteria for wp:reliable sources. He's tried every angle he can think of so far to bully his POV into these articles. [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Random_Album_Title&action=history And he is clearly edit warring].


 * If you truly want to help, why not find the citations yourself? It would be much more constructive than making ridiculous arguments for their own sake.  R ad io pa th y  •talk•  02:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Radiopathy, I appreciate you calling Sarek's attention to another editor's edit warring, but aren't you on an indefinite 1RR restriction? Your edits here [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coldplay&action=historysubmit&diff=387820752&oldid=387803173] [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coldplay&diff=next&oldid=388000596] are in violation of the 1RR, as are your edits here [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=At_Play_3&action=historysubmit&diff=387637317&oldid=387495873] [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=At_Play_3&action=historysubmit&diff=387781005&oldid=387774754] and here [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stoned_in_Love&action=historysubmit&diff=387637246&oldid=387631526] [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stoned_in_Love&diff=next&oldid=387774680]. On both of those last two, you made your next revert the next day less than an hour away from violating it two straight days in a row. Please stop with the edit warring, genres aren't worth it. If it's an important change, let another editor make it. Dayewalker (talk) 03:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Radiopathy, you are not making constructive edits. I am actually citing my sources and you keep removing them refusing to tell me why. Not only that, you revert edits in which I am removing information that is uncited which you keep restoring. It's obvious you are just reverting my edits for the sake of reverting them. 75.85.53.84 (talk) 05:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that alongside removing cited material, Radiopathy has restored uncited information whilst claiming I need to "cite my sources". Ironic considering that I am removing uncited material. As I said, he is reverting my edits without even looking at them which would constitute vandalism[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Random_Album_Title&diff=388027397&oldid=388021013] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.53.84 (talk) 05:48, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * At this point, both of you need to stop just reverting each other and pick an article's talk page to discuss this matter on. Without commenting specifically on the matter, I can tell you that you both just reverting in a content dispute without discussing isn't a good way to determine consensus. Dayewalker (talk) 06:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

edit-warring: The Brandywell Stadium
User:VirtualRevolution is edit warring on the Brandywell Stadium WP. I have made some edits. I removed the Irish Translation given that the link provided no longer works and changed location from Ireland to Northern Ireland. He countinues to change this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.114.44.208 (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Sock
By virtue of them being a block evading sock they are wrong and what dead link are the removing? VirtualRevolution (talk) 13:43, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Brandywell Stadium
I have partially reverted this article as I can see no rational for the removal of the Irish translation, I have done a quick google search and the Irish term is used, if you want to revert I will not revert and take it to the talk page best Mo ainm  ~Talk  20:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Project Runway
Thank you. I am really pissed off, right now, and I think I'm going to take a break for a while. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 02:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Excellent idea. See you around when you've recovered. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 03:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

From Roger491127
Did you move my request for arbitration to a more suitable place or did you just delete it? Roger491127 (talk) 20:34, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * As I explained on your talkpage already, I deleted it because you twice placed it on boards that were for dealing with existing cases. I didn't see any point in moving it to the actual request board, because ArbCom does not handle content disputes unless all previous steps in dispute resolution were followed. I told you that the best next step would be to file a request for comment, so I suggest you do that. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:38, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

(Re)Edit warring on Catalonia
To block me for edit warring, you should first prove any rule breaking. My last 3 reverts came from Sept 26, Sept 30 and Oct 2... and I'm supporting the consensus. I invite you to read the talk-page before shooting your bullets.

As an administrator you should take care before accusing. Now, let's see if you take the time to explain yourself for this warning as it is completely nonsense. -- Maurice27 About Me, Talk,  Vandalize. 06:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Boomerangs
No... even if it boomerangs on me, it is time that Doncram learns that he can not simply revert any edit I make, or ignore good faith attempts to resolve issues. Blueboar (talk) 21:45, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Ruth Bader Ginsburg article
I'm not really interested in getting into an edit war, I just want to say that the unsubstantiated assertions about Frankfurter are really appalling and beneath the quality standards of Wikipedia, in my opinion. The added "substantiation" was merely an article that made the same unsubstantiated assertion that Frankfurter was sexist. Unless there is some record of Frankfurter saying that he rejected Ginsburg merely because she was a woman, it is defamatory to sully his sterling reputation with such claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ksoileau (talk • contribs) 18:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If a New York Times article explicitly says that he rejected Ginsburg because she was a woman, and you don't think that's reliable, I'm not sure what I could offer that would convince you.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I know a good spae wife Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:09, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * All that is presented in the Times article is anecdotal evidence in which an acquaintance of Frankfurter recollects that Frankfurter once said he wasn't ready to hire a woman. Does such third-hand information really substantiate anything? Unless Frankfurter published his reasons for not hiring Ginsburg, then we don't really KNOW his reasons, and it is not appropriate to speculate about them in Wikipedia.Kerry (talk) 18:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't you think you should be making this point on the talkpage of the article, where more than 5 people will actually see it? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

mildly annoyed
I think you reverted a change I made without reading the talk page first? Could you go back and comment on my proposal? (European Article Number). Thanks. Hobit (talk) 00:42, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Beautiful irony
[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bookland&diff=389210049&oldid=389152943] The fifth revert of the day with an edit-summary cautioning everyone against revert-warring :) ╟─TreasuryTag► co-prince ─╢ 05:47, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Question for you
[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bookland&diff=389350117&oldid=389311897] – ╟─TreasuryTag► directorate ─╢ 16:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Go carts
I had submitted this topic to Blueboar on Notability. He told me to submit Afds and tried some himself. This is not "solicitation." We had all agreed ahead of time that the articles were not notable. He had not voted for reasons I did not understand. Student7 (talk) 18:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine, then. I just wanted to make sure you didn't fall clearly foul of the guidelines, and it's easier to do that before it actually happens. :-) Thanks! --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Admin dashboard template
Hey there. Thanks for the pointer to your script – I've popped it into my monobook, but it doesn't seem to have done anything. Where should I be seeing this available? I'm using the standard skin and have Twinkle, if that makes a difference. I is technologically challenged with this stuff... Tony Fox (arf!) 17:03, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you _using_ Monobook, or Vector? :-) Also, make sure you reload your scripts -- I think there are instructions for that when you edit the .js files. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you bypassed your cache? – xeno talk 17:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Monobook, yes; I've reloaded, bypassed, removed a couple of gadgets that I'd had installed but was not using, reloaded, bypassed again, sacrificed a ceremonial rubber chicken, and kicked the computer for good measure. Still not seeing anything. Maybe the head cold is slowly driving me mad or something? Tony Fox (arf!) 20:18, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ...um, never mind. So they changed the default name from monobook to Vector when the new features got turned on, huh? Missed that bit... er, works now! Thanks! *slinks off into his technologically-impaired hole again* Tony Fox (arf!) 21:48, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Trouted
You have been trouted for: Continues blocking an article i am trying to revise
 * Heh. Translating parts of an article into a different language doesn't exactly count as "revision". :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:10, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Yet another conflict with Doncram
Sarek, would you please review the recent edit history and talk page of Grand Lodge of Idaho. I have challenged the relevancy of material that Doncram has added... and he is edit warring to maintain his material. I especially object to removing the relevancy tag while the discussion is on going. I am not going to let him drag me into an edit war again... but enough is enough... I am getting very annoyed with his behavior. It really does seem to be directed at me personally.

If you can not deal with this, please forward this to another admin who can. Blueboar (talk) 17:12, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This seems fairly daft. Both of you agree, at Articles for deletion/Grand Lodge of Idaho, that the article should be deleted.  So why on Earth have either of you got into a dispute over it?  Both of you want an administrator to do away with all of the edit history, there, remember.  If that happens, all of your edits, and all of the content that you are disputing, will be deleted.  It does seem fairly ludicrous that two people who agree that an article should be deleted in its entirety are disagreeing with each other about its content in the meantime.  You could at least be disagreeing, instead, with the people who want the article kept.  ☺  Uncle G (talk) 18:37, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Uncle G! It is daft!
 * There is a point that i think is appropriate to discuss, though, namely that editors should not edit war to remove positive material from an article that is under AFD and where they have taken a position to delete the article. I had done a favor to a different editor who strove to improve the article.  I substituted a sentence about 3 NRHP-listed buildings using NRIS source for the infobox using NRIs source that he/she had added (presumably seeking to bolster the article, in response to the AFD).  I believe it is somewhat positive material for the article.  To clarify slightly, Blueboar is perceiving this material as being mine, when I view it as another editor's point, which i refined for that editor.  So, in the article, I gave an aid to the pro-keep position, though it was not enough to move me in my AFD delete vote.  Blueboar, by contrast, is editing warring to remove positive material in the article, and is for deletion at the AFD.  Blueboar is also edit warring in a different article, Sons of Haiti, where at its AFD he is for deletion while i am for keeping.  I would appreciate clear advice being given to Blueboar about these practices. --doncram (talk) 19:10, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * All I want to do in the GL Idaho article is add a tag that says that the relevancy of a particular paragraph is questioned. I think that is something that should be noted for editors who come to the article (especially while it is a AfD, as this may impact someone's determination of notability).  It seems Doncram can not compartmentalize, and assumes that any edit I make in one article must relate to other articles.  Thus, because we are in a dispute at one article, he object to my edits in another.  I am being very careful NOT to edit war at any of these articles... I am discussing the issue, and floating different solutions in a hope to resolve them. Blueboar (talk)

Whitefish Mountain Resort
If this is not for travelers, why was the material you insist on removing on the page for so long? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.160.62.91 (talk) 16:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ...because nobody who knew better saw it? There's millions of articles, so little time... ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 16:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'm still frosted that I was slandered on the discussion page after helping to promote the place. No more time wasted here. Thanks for helping. Ted Tedpatten (talk) 19:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Slandered? Show me ... ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 19:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

HERE IT IS:

But if we do that, then I would like to see this section read something like, "Ted Patten, a vocal critic of resort management, claimed the resort changed lift operating hours to differ from those posted..." to better reflect the newspaper article, and in fact the actual source of all this controversy.

iT'S ON:

Talk:Whitefish Mountain Resort/Archive 1

Since the hostile takeover of the resort there has been considerable vandalism to resort property. For the public relations manager (a single purpose Wiki account) to write that I am "and in fact the actual source of all this controversy" is probably libelous and is certainly considered slander.Tedpatten (talk) 14:35, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I am misreading the statement, but it seems you are taking it out of context (or didnt provide enough to show the context you came up with). That section states: "to better reflect the newspaper article, and in fact the actual source of all this controversy." – regardless of how I read the statement, it seems it is claiming the newspaper article is the claimed source of controversy. Are you the article's author, editor or publisher? Perhaps if so, I could make a connection. R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 16:17, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I was the person interviewed at the reporter's request.Tedpatten (talk) 15:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Then I see no slander on Wikipedia. Someone is merely taking your comments as printed in a newspaper, that you gave voluntarily.  Are you the only person who, in print, made the comments?  It appears so.  You had best get a better definition of slander, and beware of WP:NLT. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 16:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

of course you see no slander, this site is fake filled with self appointed experts ready to exert their power through rudeness.

I'm telling you that if your words were twisted by a single purpose account, you'd be pissed off too.

Don't bother helping anyone here, it just is a waste of time and effort.

Have funTedpatten (talk) 14:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for answering the questions so that I could actually try to help. Very useful.  Of course, if you were wise, you would followed a link and would have known that I am a journalist by trade ... ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 14:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Right, a journalist by trade. Just more of Me, Myself & I. That's exactly the problem with this site. Of course, if you were wise, you would have read the discussion page b4 deleting. Maybe it was vulcansarah or whatever she calls herself. The anonominity of this effort really undermines it's credibility and just makes it resemble the blogs on a bad rural newspaper website. Thanks for the help, cheers. TedTedpatten (talk) 17:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

3RR warning
Read WP:3rr again BLPs does not apply to the rule. Tb hotch Ta lk C. 20:38, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it also says not to rely on that exemption. As I pointed out, other people are watching that article, too, so you don't need to risk a block. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

EW (re GAO report)
Alas, my "EW" is with an IP user who does not have a talk page. Otherwise I'd be happy to talk with IP to discuss. Still, I did add discussion to each of the pages involved, citing the basis for reverting the edits. (E.g., WP:SYNTHESIS) Your EW warning is fully understood and appreciated -- I'll behave. (But can I offer a as a bribe to let me off the hook?)  ;-) -- --S. Rich (talk) 21:01, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

RFC/U (or RFCC... or whatever)
Hi Serek... please swing by User talk:Blueboar ... your name has come up. Blueboar (talk) 21:13, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Immediation
Hi SoV, I've just been checking over the WP:Mediation page again, and noticed the two forms/methods indicated. To act as a mediator between User:Blueboar and User:Doncram, do I need to join the mediation cabal? Do I need to rescind my offer until I'm approved for that? I know this is kinda barn door, lock, cows already gone at this point; but I've just noted the details on that page more thoroughly. Your guidance would be appreciated. Best, Rob R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 00:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Was kinda confused by this part: "Any neutral editor may mediate a dispute" as it related to the two methods that precede it as "Parties may request mediation from one of two specific bodies... Mediation Committee... (or) Mediation Cabal" Best, R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 00:17, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Started and opened a case here, so I *think* all is good. Best, Rob R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 00:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Paul Gerhard Vogel
Could you userfy this article for me please? There is material that can be recycled into a wider article, as was discussed in the AFD. Thanks. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 16:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. The talkpage only had templates on it, so I didn't bother restoring it. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:29, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 16:30, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You're quite welcome. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
That was a good thing to do. Best, Sandy Georgia (Talk) 18:42, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That was nothing to be thanked for. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:47, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand why you feel that way, but it did reduce the drama potential. Best, Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 18:49, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is something to be thankful of you for. Specifically, that you have the guts to make hard calls that a lot of us, myself prominently included, don't; yeah, I said I wouldn't involve myself in that area when I sought adminship, but that's at least in part because I knew even then that I'm a bit of a spineless bastard. Maybe, once in a while, there might be a mistake or less-than-perfect call or two, but that's true of everybody, and would probably be more true of me if I did engage in it more frequently, and would get doubtless even more questioning if I did. So thanks for being willing to be one of our thankless policemen. John Carter (talk) 20:38, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It would be better if you "policemen" had an independent review body to look at it when you don't get it right, which is far too often. Malleus Fatuorum 21:31, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * We do. It's called "the rest of Wikipedia". --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it's called your mates at the drama boards. Try to wake up Sarek. Malleus Fatuorum 21:42, 15 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Sarek: Why did you block Malleus Fatuorum? I did not see an explanation, other than the generic block template. I am also confused as to why you blocked him, then unblocked with a surly message and withdrew from the situation. My first thought was that your block was a mistake, but I did not see an apology, so I suspect not. Could you not be bothered with the howling complaints? If not, know that they are to be expected, and if you can't tolerate them, then it would be best to avoid blocking in future (or make greater use of the +canteditowntalk function until the blockee calms down enough to hold a rational conversation—though I prefer to just remove any comments that prefer vulgarities, shouting, or other drivel). Anyhow, I'll stop guessing and give you a chance to answer. AGK   00:02, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The answer was embedded in the "generic" block template. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:07, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed that. If the block was sound then why lift it? AGK   21:27, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I was fairly sure that someone else was going to lift it regardless of whether it was sound or not, and I wasn't in the mood to have my judgment overruled that day, so I decided to beat them to it. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:50, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

FYI
Hi, I sure could use your help. I sent an email to explain, thanks, -- Crohnie Gal Talk  19:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks really appreciated, -- Crohnie Gal Talk  22:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * And I thank you for saving me the trouble of the SPI I was preparing! Those edit summaries and "article onslaughts" were too obvious.  Cheers :>  Doc   talk  22:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer to save the SPI checks for the ones I'm _not_ sure about. This case was sufficiently obvious.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yea it was yet she tried to make it look like she was all so innocent and the bullies were getting her. She was driving me nuts because of the errors she was putting into the articles.  She makes so many mistakes it really hard to take when she tries to rewrite a whole article with tid bits here and there.  Thanks again Sarek, -- Crohnie Gal  Talk  22:46, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * TYTYTY, you are awesome as usual! Namaste...DocOfSoc (talk) 00:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
that talk page has been dead for a while now, and I've seen things added and deleted with no rhyme or reason a a while now —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ears4life (talk • contribs) 04:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Eniskink
I assume you're keeping an eye on this editor as a possible SRQ sock? Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * BTW, since she's been consistently socking, does the clock on her 1 year ban reset each time a new sock is discovered and blocked? Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's high time to start a permanent site ban discussion at AN or AN/I. She's even socking at Wikipedia Review as "anklet with the pom-pom" when she's got "NotASpamBot" already: and she's of course stalking and trashing editors (and WP) left and right.  As far as her ever editing here again, she claims (as "awtp-p"), "The only way for Wikipedia to ever been "clean" again is for it to be obliterated in its current form and "reborn". It's current nature is corrupted and unredeemable. No amount of ethnic cleansing is going to change it back to where it (may have) started."  I guess WP:AGF has gone completely out the window.  I can't imagine why the year ban should have to be reset since the last time: she should be permanently banned for the continuing socking, and a new community discussion would most likely lead to this, IMO.  Jus' sayin'.   Doc   talk  08:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * edit conflict My finely honed sense is saying "it is time to block"  sigh. Your humble fan ;-) DocOfSoc (talk) 08:57, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Question
May I e-mail you about a problem I'm having, about which I need advice? Thanks in advance. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:28, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you can ask... :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:35, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Lidz
But please remove the slanderous comments from the Franz Lidz page BEFORE you block the page. Dromeaz (talk) 19:45, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * See WP:WRONGVERSION. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

It is time to block/ban AJona1992
From AJona1992, a threat and a refusal for mentorship by myself or anyone else (in violation of the terms of his AN/I) (via Facebook). Reposted with his permission (as noted in the text).


 * I am done with being "friends" to those ppl on wikipedia. I don't need back-up cheerleaders in my life. I am done talking to you and this will be the last time that I do as you can tell i began ignoring you last night after what you said to me. I can care less if you show this message to Wikipedia and use it against me IDC. I don't leave peacefully and I will block you from ever contacting me and will report you to facebook lolz I will think of something HAHA! The adopt-a-user, DYK, and the copy-edit bullshit can all kiss my ass becuz its useless and stupid. I was sincere to you but after all this IDC anymore I am leaving forever and I dont want any of you people to bother me after this, life goes on and I dont care what any of you guys think "oh hes hurting my feelings" plz man up already I am not the "baddest" guy and it makes me laugh to see all of you just talk shit hahaha. Anyways good bye forever I dont need any more stress from all of you anyways. PEACE OUT

Best, R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 16:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That does it. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 16:54, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support infinite ban, note wording. Not indefinite, and not block. I think he's exhausted the community's patience. Block and note at ANI, imo. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 17:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support infinite ban R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 17:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not going to act on the grounds of something posted elsewhere. I got banned from RedState because I trash-talked them on DailyKos, even though I continued to be civil on RS. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:07, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, then I suspect the numerous incidents of incivility, and such here are more than sufficient:
 * Special:PermanentLink/389018621
 * User talk:Jeffro77
 * User talk:AJona1992
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors
 * Special:PermanentLink/389027566


 * Need more? R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 17:23, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I don't. However, as the mantra goes, "Preventive, not punitive". If he comes back and continues the behavior, there's more than enough grounds to block. However, if he has really left, there's no need to block.
 * If you're looking for a community ban, which I admit looks like a good idea at this point, you'll need to take it to WP:AN to make it formal.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree there's no need for a block if he has really gone. But he's out of last chances, so if he comes back and puts another foot wrong then I'd say it would be indef block time. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:37, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, that's fine too... or (per the AN/I requirement) imposing the rest of his unmentored 3 months as a block, so he cannot come back during that time frame (assuming he decides to). (added: 17:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC) --->) Otherwise, the alternative is to block him the moment he comes back per the terms of the AN/I? R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 17:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, good point. Blanking his talkpage after you told him not to remove the mentorship notice is an on-wiki declaration that he's no longer bound by the previous agreement, so reinstating.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:50, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, he was never blocked, so there's nothing to reinstate. Reviewing the discussion, it seems like civility blocks would start at 48 hours, but with all the warnings he's gotten recently, it would be fair to start at a week.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:00, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I only blanked it because he took me off but then again IDC and good job to you for blocking me lolz. AJona1992 (talk) 17:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support ban, I would take it to WP:AN but I been involved with this editor too much, me revert warring with him a month back caused my RFA to sink (I knew a crat would discount the spelling and dramamongor votes but not the revert warring thus I blanked the page before it became a dramafest I couldn't handle). I knew that mentorship wouldn't work out. Secret account 18:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

AJona, so, did you change your mind and want to be mentored and can remain civil? "I only blanked it because" doesnt coincide with your Facebook messages (plural) or with the edit summary I left you when I re-added the mentor userbox. Please clarify. I'm willing to work with you, but you have to understand, as I stated at the beginning, I do not tolerate incivility for any reason. R OBERT M FROM LI TALK/CNTRB 19:44, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Look Robert I am sorry for what I said I didn't mean any of it at all, my life is just way too stressful and I think its time for me to leave Wikipedia. I only came here to say sorry but not to come back. I see there's an AN/I so do what you have to do, don't save me because I just can't deal with being here anymore. I just didn't want to hurt Rob's feelings because we bonded and I felt I could trust him but Wikipedia is too much for me right now, I rather leave then for others to think wrong of me because of what I did to them. AJona1992 (talk) 20:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks Jona. I'm unblocking you in chat and such... though I wont contact you (you can take the initiative and contact me if you so desire). And my talk page will be open to you. Hope things improve for you. -Robert R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 20:33, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

ANI
No sense waiting, I've started a thread.
 * And that's supposed to reduce drama? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:09, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Geting the bad block undone quickly will minimize the drama that already began when you unwisely used the button.--Cube lurker (talk) 20:11, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, so the longer I leave it be, the more drama you plan to cause. Got it. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:12, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well we're clear, you think I'm a drama monger and I think you're an abusive admin. Looks like we've exhausted this forum.--Cube lurker (talk) 20:15, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

On the Census, the term is "Asian", not "Asian American".
On the Census, the term is "Asian", not "Asian American".

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2009_1YR_G00_DP5&-context=adp&-ds_name=&-tree_id=309&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false&-format= —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Universe Is Cool (talk • contribs) 20:06, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

User_talk:147.144.44.209
Hi Sarek, this is Factocop. Obviously I can not log in and write this message as I am blocked from editing and I am still waiting to receive a verdict from the ArbCom but will this user be added to The_Maiden_City sockpuppet investigation? Obviously this user is neither me, Factocop nor The_Maiden_City but I guarantee you that if you were to request a CU, this user would probably be found guilty of sockpuppetry. I was blocked from editing and even contributing to the investigation as the case was opened and closed over a weekend so I am assuming that this innocent user will also be blocked from editing, accused of sockpuppetry and then blocked indefinitely? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.114.44.200 (talk) 16:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Blocks
Your block of Treasury Tag is a bad block. This follows on the heels of your bad blocks of Malleus Fatuorum and GiacomoReturned were also bad blocks. In view of this poor judgement, you should give some serious thought to relinguishing your adminstrator tools. Regards, Patrick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.195 (talk • contribs) 12:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)


 * FYI. – xeno talk 14:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, just remembered I should have posted a notice. Nev1 (talk) 14:53, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I've unblocked TreasuryTag. Sorry, but this was clearly a bad call, and a call which you should not have made (see my ANI comment). I think you should bring more of these types of potential blocks to ANI, to allow others to comment and if necessary act. Rd232 talk 17:04, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh dear.
So I come home from a hard day at the office to find that you have yet again caused everyone hassle regarding me. After countless badgering warnings* on my talkpage, and two blocks of me within the space of a day, both of which were overturned, you decided to come back for one more try. Can we now take it that you have a longstanding dispute with me and are this inappropriately placed to block me in future?

* I have carefully avoided using the word "harassment" because I am fully aware of WP:HA and am trying to assume good faith, but you should be aware of quite how close a thing it was.

╟─TreasuryTag► First Secretary of State ─╢ 19:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Interesting view of "overturned" you have, when I reversed the first block myself when you agreed to stop edit warring. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:54, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Simply as a point of order, when I unblocked you I [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&user=Xeno&page=User:TreasuryTag&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_review_log=1 made it clear] it was not an overturning of the block, but a reduction in the length. – xeno talk 19:55, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh Xeno, I have fond memories of our [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:TreasuryTag&diff=387326818&oldid=387326631 terminology disputes] – so to please you both, I will provide a redrafted version of my original message; you may choose which to accept. Sarek, I would ideally like a response to the substance in addition to any snarky or pedantic remarks you may have. ╟─TreasuryTag► duumvirate ─╢ 20:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)


 * So I come home from a hard day at the office to find that you have yet again caused everyone hassle regarding me. After countless badgering warnings on my talkpage, and two blocks of me within the space of a day, neither of which stood for more than 1% of its length as originally set, you decided to come back for one more try. Can we now take it that you have a longstanding dispute with me and are this inappropriately placed to block me in future? ╟─TreasuryTag► duumvirate ─╢ 20:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:BEAR. Really TT, just be intelligent and walk away – you're not going to like the answers, and you won't like the next steps. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 20:04, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you could outline what "next steps" you'd consider taking in response to my message(s) to Sarek above? ╟─TreasuryTag► Speaker ─╢ 20:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it will be SarekOfVulcan who doesn't like the next step. Malleus Fatuorum 20:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I would say that attempting to needle the admin into perhaps additional action – which is clearly what this is about – will have a bad ending. TT, you know the frickin rules around here, so don't play that what you did was somehow ok, or that you didn't know.  Just move on ffs. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 20:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * For Freyja's Sake? :-)--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It is my position that what I have done in this thread is entirely reasonable in all the circumstances: I asked an administrator not to block me any more, given the fact that they have a clear conflict of interest and were responsible for three blocks which – now let me think of a euphemism which will satisfy everyone – did not live out their full tenure for one reason or another. You are, of course, free to disagree; you are even free to disagree to the extent of suggesting that such a course of action is a blockable offence. But I suspect that you'd have trouble gaining popular support for such a notion. ╟─TreasuryTag► Lord Speaker ─╢ 20:29, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * (And for what it's worth, I'm not clear how your use of "for fuck's sake" in talkpage comment and edit-summary is in any way consistent with your position that my use of phrases such as "POV crap" constituted blockable incivility...) ╟─TreasuryTag► Lord Speaker ─╢ 20:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, I just used the word "frickin" before that...what makes you think ffs had anything to do with "fuck" based on that? ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 23:07, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * So lame. You know as well as I do what 'ffs' almost exclusively stands for. When you use an abbreviation, you assume that the other person will interpret it like a normal human being. ╟─TreasuryTag► secretariat ─╢ 05:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Inappropriate edit
Sarek, I'm honestly not sure of what to make of [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FIncidents&action=historysubmit&diff=392079123&oldid=392078720 this edit.] One of the issues that you are being accused of is inappropriately blocking TT despite having a hostile history with one another. If that allegation is true (and I'm not saying that it is or isn't) then your blocking of him was IMO inappropriate. Even if it wasn't true, if it might be construed as true, then your blocking might be deemed as questionable. So in a thread that is challenging your ability to be objectivity, you close it yourself in your own favor? Why would you do that? I might have been able to buy it a little better if there was some acknowledgement/repentence, but the edit really has me scratching my head. You do realize that was inappropriate? It would be like closing an AFD as Keep on an article you wrote. Just so you know, I'm raising the issue here, rather than the ANI report because I am trying to understand and trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here... but this edit really rubs me the wrong way.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 21:46, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I set out my reasoning there in some more detail . If you think it needs to be discussed in more detail, feel free to copy it here and respond.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

ANI discussion.
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. a_man_alone (talk) 08:04, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I left a note regarding discussion on the ANI page. Namaste...DocOfSoc (talk) 09:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

-_-
I know, I'm the one who made the redirect three years ago, but "Redirect to direct" does not represent, sum up or identify with that policy at all. Feed back  ☎ 22:57, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

your moves of IOOF building pages
I noticed and reversed [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Independent_Order_of_Odd_Fellows_%28IOOF%29_Hall_No._148&diff=prev&oldid=392635110 your move of one Odd Fellows building article]. Your move seems to be perhaps a childish-like, wp:POINTY disruptive-of-wikipedia-to-make-a-point rejection of my request that you use the Requested Move service, which I asked and you acknowledged at Talk:Wupperman Block/I.O.O.F. Hall, after another editor reversed another move you made. Please open a Requested move if you wish to further discuss the best name for this article about a building in Washington state. It's striking that you should invoke some rule about avoiding use of slashes in article names, in the Wupperman case, and then plunge for a name using a slash in a new move. --doncram (talk) 18:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Doncram, this is exactly the type of behavior I was discussing in the mediation thread regarding both of you involved there... use of "wiggle words" in sentences doesnt hide the meaning implied or incivility ("Your move seems to be perhaps a childish-like"). You could have started this with the "Please open..." sentence and simply finished with a revised end sentence along the lines of "I don't understand why you invoked a rule about avoiding use of slashes in article names, in the Wupperman case, and then select a name using a slash in a new move." <--- civil, to the point, AGF and requests both rationale and discussion all in two sentences. Even assuming (and I'm not getting into this one) that SoV's action(s) were WP:POINTY or disruptive, it's nice to try to rise above retaliatory language as a response. Sure, we are all guilty of failing in that regard from time to time (myself included, and just recently if I am correct), but recent history shows some are guilty of it more than just "from time to time". Best, Robert R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 19:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit warring with Doncram at the Masonic buildings page
Sarek... I notice that you are letting Doncram drag you into an edit war over the inclusion of Washington Hall at the List of Masonic Buildings article. I know how easy it is for that to happen... but resist the temptation. Let's see if we can build a firm consensus at the talk page. Blueboar (talk) 15:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * On a completely different matter... but same article... would you opine on how to list the Canary Islands in the chart format? I don't think either Orlady or I really care heavily where it should go... we just need other opinions so we know what the consensus is. Blueboar (talk) 16:01, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure I have a good answer on that one. Your compromise of "Atlantic Islands" sounds reasonable, and would probably be my preference, but including them as part of Spain is also defensible.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Garside
I'd like to know how these various words that Mr. Garside takes exception to -- specifically, "dubious" and "run-in" can be construed in any way as "libellous." As the article in question demomonstrates quite persuasively, Mr. Garside has admitted to both lying and cheating -- which is why the word "dubious" is, indeed, fitting. He was also quite confrontation and defensive in his interview with Mr LIdz, which justifies "run-in." The story has been posted on SI's website for eight years, without correction or alteration. This is a bold-faced attempt by Mr. Garside to rewrite -- or, more properly, erase history. Which Wikipedia is allowing him to do by repeatedly allowing his deletions to stand while the story is under review -- this time for several more weeks. My suggestion is to let the reference and link stand -- as it had, according the to the entry's history, for most of the year -- while Mr. Garside offers persuasive proof that he has been libelled or even misconstrued. To date he has not. --Moradini922 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moradini922 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Moving ANI to subpages
Where are the objective rules, that delineate how long the page should be before it is moved. This is much shorter than other pages, that have not been moved in recent past. It cuts down on conversation to move an active discussion. It will be moved soon enough to archives, and we need objective criteria to cut down on people hiding issues in less-easy-to-see pages. Subjective criteria invite that gamesmanship.--Epeefleche (talk) 05:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where it's been spelled out, if anywhere. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a problem. We are quite good at denoting what size is appropriate for various things -- DYK article, time to split article, etc.  There is no reason to leave it up to subjective views.  It encourages gamesmanship.  IMHO, of course -- but I think it is rather self-evident.--Epeefleche (talk) 05:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you can take it up on AN/I, where I'm sure someone can point you to the exact location it's been discussed before. In any case, moving 46K of discussion out of a 200K page is probably a good thing....--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:38, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I would be fine with it being moved, if it were consistent. Rich F's string was far, far longer without being moved for a substantial period of time.  The problem is system-gaming.  And if it is not clear even to experienced ANI editors such as you what the limit is, then we can presume that the editors moving material are doing so without even knowing the rule that they are supposedly enforcing.  If it exists at all, which is not clear.  So one of two problems -- we have a rule that is not properly set forth so editors can easily see it, or we don't have a rule (where we should).  I would not quibble about the size, btw -- it is the unequal application of a maybe-existent rule that is troubling me most.  Editors of course game the system in others ways as well to hide criticisms they dislike -- we've both seen this done with editors "rolling up" material so it cannot be seen in a search, or easily seen by viewers (without clicking on what may or may not interest them), under the guise of it being a tangent, or "more heat than light". --Epeefleche (talk) 05:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ANI subpages seem to just cause the thread to peter out without resolution. – xeno talk 18:56, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point. Agree.--Epeefleche (talk) 10:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Elks
Sarek: I am a Past Exalted Ruler of the USA BPOE. I have left a message on Doncram's page and an explanation on the Talk:Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks page regarding the Canadian Elks. They are a different organization, official name Elks of Canada. They were inspired by, but not affiliated with, the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks. They need their own article, which I am not qualified or otherwise have time to write at the moment. Thank you for reverting. I'll keep an eye on it as well. Hope this explanation can help you. Regards, --Manway (talk) 19:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Is "Exalted Ruler" a state-level office, like the Masonic "Grand Master"? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. It's the leader of a local lodge. The head of the whole organization is the "Grand Exalted Ruler." --Manway (talk) 19:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Thanks again. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Unblock request of Factocop
Hello SarekOfVulcan. , whom you have blocked, is requesting to be unblocked. The request for unblock is on hold while waiting for a comment from you. A good deal of what the user has put in the unblock request is irrelevant, and much of it comes under WP:NOTTHEM, but the amount of recent reverting is very small to be called "edit warring", and there does seem to be some case for regarding you as an involved admin, even though I don't agree with Factocop's particular expression of that fact. Regards, JamesBWatson (talk) 19:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Factocop has been edit warring over Irish names for places in Northern Ireland for some time. In this case, he opened a discussion on the talk page, which was all well and good -- but rejected all the discussion that he didn't agree with, and kept reverting. I don't see myself as particularly involved in this case, except that I've been keeping an eye on various Irish articles for a while. I'm not particularly likely to come down on either side -- I backed his efforts to remove the Irish translation of City of Derry Airport. Are there any other points you'd like me to clarify? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:13, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, that's perfectly clear. I will go back and decline the unblock request. Thanks. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:17, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi. There has been another unblock request. I intend to undo the block because, by undoing that editor's edit [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=County_Londonderry&diff=392039976&oldid=392039056 here] for content-related reasons, you were involved in the dispute as an editor and should not have blocked this user yourself. I'd appreciate your comment on the user's talk page at your earliest convenience. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:41, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Bogus warning
I made a single revert. That's in no way edit warring. Yworo (talk) 02:24, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_A._Heinlein&action=history] disagrees. It shows multiple reverts, as well as multiple edits that were revert-like. I guess sometimes it's hard to keep track of, especially in the middle of a content dispute that should have been taken to the talk page. I suspect that's easy to fix though by going back to the talk page to discuss or by involving some uninvolved editors to help work on consensus. Best, R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 03:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh, in case you were unaware, a series of unbroken edits are counted as one edit for the purposes of 3RR. I make individual edits so other editors can individually revert an edit they disagree with. Yworo (talk) 03:24, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe you may be mistaking edit warring with 3RR. They can be quite different in various scenarios. But again, more importantly is what is really happening is adding info, removing info, adding info, removing info... numerous times. Of course, I know it wasnt your intent to bypass 3RR by using incremental edits, but with the article in such a contentious state, and an unresolved conversation on the talk page, how do you think such actions would be perceived by outsiders? Best, R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 03:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? The warning is specifically for 3RR, intended to be given after the third revert. Also, an "unresolved conversation" doesn't trump WP:V. When one editor removes tagged uncited material, WP:V explicitly requires the editor restoring it to provide the needed citations. Also, the conversation on the talk page didn't start until after the series of edits. Yworo (talk) 03:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I think the confusion comes from you reading it differently?Special:PermanentLink/393902290. No worries there. But it seems to be the standard edit warring (with mention of 3RR) message. Like all the templated messages, some parts may not specifically apply. But let's not split hairs on it. :-) Let's assume it entirely is for edit warring? R OBERT M FROM LI  TALK/CNTRB 03:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm counting the edit war as starting October 23. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, sorry, reverting the insertion of personal opinion without citation and warning the editor to provide citations is not edit warring. Yworo (talk) 15:36, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Factocop and Brandywell Stadium
Could you inform Factocop not to say that an edit is vandalism when it is clearly a content dispute when using edit summary. Good idea that the page is now protected.VirtualRevolution (talk) 11:59, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Also the page is not protected you didn't do it correctly. VirtualRevolution (talk) 12:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Sarek, I think VirtualRevolution is snatching at straws here. A small error in my terminology. nothing more. seriously...its a bit petty. He/she is very welcome to join the discussion. Anyway...I know I asked you this before but following your block of NorthernCounties for edit-warring on said page, as he did not seek consensus for change, you failed to 'undo' his revision. Why not? I ask this because I thought it was standard for the blocking admin to do so and because you agreed to the change yourself. I am suggesting that a pp be put on the page but only after you revert back to the version prior to NorthernCounties revision.Factocop (talk) 12:23, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Calling an edit vandalism is not a small error in terminology. VirtualRevolution (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

How can you tell if it was a content dispute given that the blocked user only joined the discussion to say that they would not discuss the issue? Either way its no big deal. I am sure you have been guilty of greater sins and got away with it in the past...feel free to discuss the topic at hand.Factocop (talk) 12:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Sarek, I notice that you have protected the Brandywell WP. Why did you not revert back to original content before doing so? You couldnt find the time to reply to my comments from 12:23 yet you found the time to protect the page. This means that the issue will drag on for another month.Factocop (talk) 14:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --Lerdthenerd (talk) 15:20, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Sarek, I am not sure why you didnt respond to any of the questions posted on this page nor the the questions posted on the admins page. Probably something to do with not having a leg to stand on but I have encountered you on a number of discussions, you have been petty in your warnings and blocking and yet it seems that admins are above the law in this case. Absolute joke. Stay away from any discussions I am involved in as you are a poor admin. complete hypocracy.Factocop (talk) 09:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Doncram RFC/U
I have endorsed. Not sure if I should add any additional comments. Blueboar (talk) 18:57, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * God... where do I begin?... the problem is that this something that spans multiple pages over the course of several months. It is difficult to provide diffs. Blueboar (talk) 19:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You know... given the history between Doncram and myself, if I get overly involve in this, Doncram is going to try to twist it so it focuses on my behavior instead of his. I am sorry to put the work load on you, but other than endorsing your comments, I think I should take a back seat.  If the evidence and comments comes from someone other than me, he might begin to understand that it is his behavior that is the issue, not mine. Blueboar (talk) 19:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok. Thanks. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:27, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * In addition to the articles you mention at the RFC/U already, you can probably find more than enough evidence of his tendency towards WP:OWN, and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT at List of Masonic buildings, and at Canton Viaduct, where he is consistently reluctant to accept that any viewpoint but his own has merit, and is quick to revert any change to "his" work, and engages in edit waring to keep his version of the article in place (as I know well).
 * You might want to look back through the archives of the list article... there was a dispute last summer between Doncram and myself over the best citation for the fact that the buildigns were listed on the NRHP and MSJapan tried to informally mediate it. As long as he thought MSJ might support his view of things Doncram was willing to participate ... but when MSJ began to seem more inclined towards my viewpoint, Doncram turned somewhat hostile and refused to listen further. Blueboar (talk) 19:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * But really, experience suggests that it'll get twisted either way. If the RFC fails to be certified, he could use that as "well, there's not really a problem". Considering that he's already claiming that the mediation is all about your behavior, not his, I don't think you can make things any worse. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Just curious, Sarek, are you endorsing? And, just out of curiosity, do you by any chance know User:Spock of Vulcan, who I've seen show up on my watch list a few times? John Carter (talk) 21:22, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If I can find a set of diffs that go directly toward resolving an issue, instead of just stating my side, I'll use them to endorse. And no, I haven't run into Spock lately, somehow. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Navah Perlman
Hello Sarek, nice meeting you. I noticed you reverted my wikilinking edits.

Since you are an advanced clarinetist, (not clarinetist,) I am a bit puzzled. Do you mind enlightening me about the pianist thing, why should it be wikilinked as concert pianist, instead of we have concert pianist here in Wikipedia? As you know, we also have pianist too, which you didn't use.:-) You used pianist instead.

Equal wise, why should violonists be wikilinked as violonists instead of we have violonists?

What is your rationale behind this revert Sarek, I would like to know.:-) Because I felt really sad; I thought I did a good edit.

Also, when you say: People might want to know what the soloist is. Please remember, there are millions of readers out there which might not be familiar with some of the musical terms including some of the musical instruments.
 * Perlman performed as a soloist...

And art for instance.
 * When she ...switched her major from music to art, to me, it is highly relevant to wikilink it; don't you think so? Because, it is not just a common word and it's connected to the subject.

I could make the same argument with the Symphony Orchestra.:-) Cheers. Fusion is the future (talk) 22:35, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello Sarek, I noticed you undid your edits. I am very impressed and delighted with your common sense and sincere honesty. I sure know, that I can trust an administrator who has these prominent qualities whose judgments are based on. Thank you and thank you. Cheers Fusion is the future (talk) 15:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Claims of vandalism
Is Factocop going to continue to call peoples edits vandalism when they are not and are you going to say anything about it as you seem to be quick to come to my page to tell me incorrectly that I could face a block. Mo ainm ~Talk  18:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Mo, you considered my edits labelled 'test' as vandalism. 3 words, Pot, Kettle and Black spring to mind.

Sarek, also here is NorthernCounties describing my edits as vandalism when they are quite clearly not. I think this warrants a blocking now...dont you? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ANorthernCounties&action=historysubmit&diff=394414364&oldid=394413781.Factocop (talk) 09:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It was WP:POINTy, but your tests to a live article were, indeed, vandalism. Cut it out, both of you or you both will get a block.  Seriously. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 09:20, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for clarifying my edits on the template of Freemasonry2 ..

I am very grateful to you ....

Regards

Badr my talk ! 18:28, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you aswell. Can you suggest what form of WP:DR I should pursue. I wjust want some sunjective and neutral to come and look at the argument.Factocop (talk) 15:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Irving et al
Thank you. It certainly was not my intent, and I have tried to be careful about that to the point of raising concerns in private emails. But it is very difficult to discuss the COI pattern outside the co-workers-not-socks claims. It is hard to convey that this individual lists himself as a officer of an organization on the internet, with a publicly available email that is "very similar" to the signon that has been editing an autobiography and a number of other articles closely related to his job function. Many thanks, Racepacket (talk) 15:08, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sarek, I am trying to deescalate this situation. Have learned by example some COI practices better learned by study, but have been diligent in keeping voice neutral, relying on published sources.  With respect to Racepacket need some advice.  Sense he is moving on, but I now getting a little scared.  He has accused the Irving editors of being co-workers (they are not; same IP, it's been checked) and indicates above he is now going out by private e-mails on the issue.  He has gone to the Board of Trustees at Cornell; the students are getting agitated by his actions, etc.  By the way, several people use "Cmagha" in a variety of settings.  Reference to the Tain Bo Cuilagne.  The Seven Sons of Magha, who marched with Maev and Aillil on their trek to retrieve the Brown Bull of Cooley. The cairn, as in Cairn Magha, was thought to be Clontygora cairn, north of Newry.Cmagha (talk) 22:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Factocop
Given the discussion at Sockpuppet investigations/The Maiden City/Archive, how did Factocop manage to get unblocked the previous time? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * He was apparently confirmed as not being TMC. I'm not privy to the evidence he presented. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I was accused by countless parties of sock puppetry and as Sarek will confirm, I fought the accusations vigorously. I was blocked for the best part of a month, while other users made snide comments and cheap digs. Thankfully after an investigation, I was released. Although I am still awaiting quite a few apologies. Dont think ill get them though.Factocop (talk) 17:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

If the checkuser said no, then I reckon that's the way it is. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * CU confirmed that Factocop was Pilgrimsquest and also Blue is better, that is known and a fact they might not have been Maiden City but they certainly were the other 2 and possibly the IP's also. Mo ainm  ~Talk  20:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APilgrimsquest&action=historysubmit&diff=387334675&oldid=387334246 Pilgrimsquest] and User talk:Dame edna uk, you are probably thinking of Mo, both abusive sockpuppets used by Factocop by his own admission. O Fenian (talk) 20:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well acording to the report "Factocop and Blue is better are Confirmed with regards to each other." So thats 3 that are confirmed bu CU  Mo ainm  ~Talk  20:59, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * What he doesn't mention is that by "I fought the accusations vigorously" he means he evaded the block multiple times and continued edit warring using sockpuppets, even evading the block hours before it was lifted. Factocop is a proven abusive sockpuppeteer by his own admission. O Fenian (talk) 20:51, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * So why is he still being allowed to edit? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a great question that I would love to know the answer to also. Mo ainm  ~Talk  21:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * is all the answer I have for you, so please go argue somewhere else. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. Presumably the admins will judge Factocop on his own merit at this point and in future. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:06, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I vigorously denied being either 'The Maiden City' or 'Blue is better', right from the very start, from the very first comment of sock puppetry, and I deny it now still. O'Fenian, you would do well to remember that tHe CU is not the only part of a sock puppet investigation. I felt very harshly done by when I was blocked for sockpuppetry, without even been able to fight the accusations as the investigation was open and closed over a wkd. That is the last I will say on the matter.Factocop (talk) 09:37, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Could you explain please
[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NorthernCounties&diff=prev&oldid=394620561 What do you mean here?] Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I blocked NC for 24 hours because I confused them with you. Then I left it because I had warned him about messing with talkpage blanking before, and it didn't seem fair to have Factocop under one set of rules and NC under another. If another admin wants to reverse it, I have no objection.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what do you mean you confused them with me? Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:32, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought at first that NC had been the other party warned by Bwilkins. By the time I left the block notification, I was aware of that mistake, but felt it was still proper given the past day or two's history on Factocop's talk page. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:35, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I am completly lost who did Bwilkins warn? And what has it got to do with me. I have looked on his page and don't see my name.  Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * See . (Oh, and sorry for repeatedly miscapitalizing your username, I'll try to get it right going forward.) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I see says the blind man, thanks, now I have to ask him what the hell he is on about also because I haven't a clue. Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Just so you are aware I haven't recieved an official warning as I have not and I quote Bwilkins [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bwilkins&curid=10875351&diff=394752426&oldid=394752264 "you have not violated, just fricking be careful around those 2 people is all I'm saying – don't get sucked in"]. Mo ainm ~Talk  09:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh no – it's still official. It says do not do any of those things – I merely say that you have not yet done them, and don't.  Please read – that's all I've asked for you to do. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 09:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * So it is an official general warning to all editors who have not violated any policy, is this a new way of doing things here? Mo ainm  ~Talk  09:26, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the standard welcome greetings also tell people what not to do. FFS, don't fricking do any of the things, you're already not, but just don't – is this that much of a challenge for you?  This is not an attack on you, it's that you're knee-fricking-deep in the shyte, you don't want to slip.  God, is this that tough to read? ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 09:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes it effin is when you have a trigger happy admin that was out to block me yesterday for nothing but blocked the wrong person. Mo ainm  ~Talk  09:31, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Can we drop the histrionics all round please. MA was incorrectly singled out. That could easily be acknowledged and we can all move on. Whats the big deal? RashersTierney (talk) 09:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree Rashers, appears admins don't like to admit they made an error. Mo ainm  ~Talk  10:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Did I block you? Noooooo.  Are you actions on my talkpage getting you close?  Yeeesss.  Do I want to?  Nooooo.  Do I consider you one of the good editors?  Yesssss.  Do you want me to change my perspective?   (insert your answer rhetorically here)  ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 10:36, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Right i'll take a chill pill and log out for a while, but this all stemed from a comment when Sarek blocked NC thinking they were me, leading on from the warning you gave me which I though was another mistake, can you not see were I am coming from? If offened by my colorful language then I'll apologise but as I was echoing the "type" of comments you were making using F word and claiming English not a strong point then I doubt you were/are offended. *Offers hands to shake and move on* Mo ainm  ~Talk  10:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

3RR report note
Thanks for the friendly advice. However, I've no idea how I did it as I didn't go anywhere near the edited bit. To save me doing it again, can you tell me what I did? Many thanks Monstrelet (talk) 19:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. I see what I did now – thought I was on the current page but must remember in future to refresh to ensure it is the current one.  Feel a bit of an idiot.  Thanks again Monstrelet (talk) 07:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...
Not sure you're actually correct about that, Twinkle makes the nomination process extremely rapid... ╟─TreasuryTag► Woolsack ─╢ 17:57, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Unregistered user
Thank you Sarek --NorthernCounties (talk) 21:55, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Unblock request of LemonMonday
Hello SarekOfVulcan. , whom you have blocked, is requesting to be unblocked. The request for unblock is on hold while waiting for a comment from you. Regards,  Sandstein   22:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

moors
Hello,

For months now User:ITSENJOYABLEhis/her alliasUser talk:SISPCM have been disrupting many pages together for many months now including the moors and the pattern and behavior of these "2 users" have been noticed and question many times. Still after several warnings from admins. This disruption and removal of content is still going on just like yesterday when SISPCM revert my edit of another vandal on the moors page about black Africans. I don't know what to do with him at this point. This has been going on for way too long and he has been warned too many timesBotsystem (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

LemonMonday
LM has raised an RFC that needs an eye kept on it[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force/Specific_Examples&diff=395334378&oldid=394219656]. I'm going to be away and have notify yourself, TFOWR and Jehochman of this. I have also notified LM of the issues with the RFC and agree that he has the right to raise one properly. However the manner in which this one is raised contravenes LMs unblocks. If he doesn't fix the obvious issues with the RFC per WP:POINT and WP:AGF within a reasonable period of time I'm looking fora review of that unblock-- Cailil  talk 15:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

personal attack?
Would this comment constitute a personal attack? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACarlingford_Lough&action=historysubmit&diff=395530460&oldid=395513417.Factocop (talk) 12:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * In my view no. Someone would need to have a deep set lack of confidence in their intelligence to find that slightly offence or in any way an attack. --NorthernCounties (talk) 12:46, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * In my view. telling someone to go back in their box is hardly offensive. Someone would need to have a deep set lack of confidence in their intelligence to find that slightly offence or in any way an attack.Factocop (talk) 12:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Box is not related to intelligence... Intelligence insult could only be inferred from "stupid" --NorthernCounties (talk) 13:39, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * well done! But just in case you were unsure of the definition, here it is – http://www.thefreedictionary.com/box. Calling someone stupid is an insult, whether you regard it as one, or not, nobody really cares.Factocop (talk) 14:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Sarek if you deem what I said as a personal attack I will strike the comment, I was just pointing out that Factocop is trying to put words in my mouth when he is aware that is not my position. Mo ainm ~Talk  16:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Sarek, just scrap it. I was just trying to make a point. Its petty comments like this that I have been reported for in the past by Mo and his Merry men, and yet they feel the need to make comments of a similar nature without any sort of punishment. I am happy to forget it, if Mo is, but I am fed up of over sensitivity over the smallest of comments.Factocop (talk) 17:07, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Ahem ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 17:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Feel free. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:34, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Would you tend to this user please
Hi, As you can see here in my history, would you mind taking the time to block the troll [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Crohnie&action=history here]? I am deleting the message that is rudely put on my talk page. This is obviously the same stalking troll doing the usual nasty postings. It's editing as vandal only account with three edits that are just vandal edits. Thanks in advance, -- Crohnie Gal Talk  16:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Disagree with speedy decline
SemEval-1 is what? [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SemEval-1&action=historysubmit&diff=395576027&oldid=395574694 It doesn't say.] — Timneu22 · &#32; talk 17:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That link in the first line gives clear context: a workshop hosted by a notable college. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:43, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No. It's up to the author to include that in the article; and since when are workshops notable? — Timneu22 · &#32; talk 17:46, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't say it was notable. Just said there was sufficient context to identify the subject of the article. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it's at AfD now anyway. I still don't know what the topic is. ;) — Timneu22 · &#32; talk 17:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Notification
As you participated in the [#De_facto_community_ban.3F ban discussion] of SkagitRiverQueen, you are being notified of this Proposal to amend ban on SRQ imposed at ANI: from 1 year to indef. Ncmvocalist (talk) 07:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

edit-warring
This has got to be edit-warring. Mo had removed Northern Ireland from the infobox knowing full well that it needed to be discussed first. He completed ignored questions I had posted in the discussion channel, and has just gone on to make the change on his own merit. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carlingford_Lough&action=historysubmit&diff=395715948&oldid=394694234.Factocop (talk) 11:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Now O_Fenian, has just made the same edit without discussion – http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carlingford_Lough&action=historysubmit&diff=395720280&oldid=395719352. Just another case of tag teaming and edit-warring without consensus. Typical.Please step in hereFactocop (talk) 11:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The inconsistency of Factocop's stance is quite breathtaking, consdering he just made [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Belfast&action=historysubmit&diff=395722031&oldid=395513531 this edit] which must fit his definition of "edit-warring without consensus". Look at the similarity:
 * An IP made an edit to Belfast. I reverted it. Factocop reverted me.
 * Mo aim made an edit to Carlingford Lough. Factocop reverted it. I reverted Factocop.
 * Swap the names, and the situation is identical! O Fenian (talk) 11:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

O_Fenian, what you were doing was edit-warring and tag-teaming to make a contentious edit knowing full well the implications. My change was rather less contentious and part of me thought you would support the change given that you keep telling me that Northern Ireland is not a country but a region of the United Kingdom which is a country. So wouldnt it make sense to list Belfast in terms of size in relation to the other cities in the UK and the country it is in?Factocop (talk) 11:34, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Factocop if you didnt like his edit you should have obeyed BRD and went to the talkpage not contiuned to revert him (at least you both stopped for now)--Lerdthenerd (talk) 11:37, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Factocop if I am edit warring then so are you by definition on the Belfast article, I have just shown the situations are identical. You cannot have your cake and eat it. O Fenian (talk) 11:41, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Well given that I dont know the user that made the previous edit, thats hardly tag teaming. I am pretty sure you are familar with Mo and Virtual Revolution. What was wrong with my edit on the Belfast page? I thought you would support the change given that you keep telling me that Northern Ireland is not a country but a region of the United Kingdom which is a country. So wouldnt it make sense to list Belfast in terms of size in relation to the other cities in the UK and the country it is in?Factocop (talk) 11:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

So by your logic Factocop you were tag teaming O Fenian on the Belfast article. VirtualRevolution (talk) 11:42, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * virrtual has just reverted factocop, facto i suggest you don't run in there and revert him, leave it and discuss with the three users that disagree with you, mmm cake--Lerdthenerd (talk) 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * didnt think I needed to discuss before a change, if VirtualRevolution,Mo and O Fenian can make changes without discussion.Factocop (talk) 11:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Then why are you here? VirtualRevolution (talk) 11:56, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I think Ill let Sarek sort this out as he had already given me a previous warning for editing on the said page without discussion so I would imagine the same would apply to everyone else.Factocop (talk) 12:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I would also like to add per the ANI thread Facto made, the page involved in this edit war is under 1RR, which means you shouldn't even have reverted once, meaning your revert to mo will be sanctioned Facto along with other users involved in this mess--Lerdthenerd (talk) 13:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I was unaware of the 1RR. Just dont think it is right that 3 users can gang up on a topic like they have here.Factocop (talk) 14:24, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The way you did on the Belfast article? Mo ainm  ~Talk  14:28, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Pauline Alderman
Hello Sarek, do you mind giving a feedback for my new article Pauline Alderman? I do not have a photo of her though, well not yet. Thanks. Fusion is the future (talk) 11:18, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sarek, I hope you didn't forget me.:-) Fusion is the future (talk) 15:49, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like it's getting there. You have a few things italicized that shouldn't be, like Julliard's original name, and some things that should be italicized that aren't, like "Orlando...", but it's pretty good. I'd look for a couple of newspaper articles to improve the sourcing, if you can find them, and try to get a source for each paragraph, if you can. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I greatly appreciate your input. I already corrected the Juilliard's original name. (Removed the italic script after your advice.) I guess I learned one more thing today which propably is, that each paragraph should get at least one source? Cheers. Fusion is the future (talk) 18:11, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not mandatory, but it's good practice. See Citing sources for details. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Humour thought
Howdy Sarek. I wonder if you'd consider giving Factocop a nerve pinch, from time to time. GoodDay (talk) 16:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi both, I just wanted to ensure you got a comment that was meant for you both, but Factocop reverted. ( Which I didn't mess with – As we know whats happened in the past)

"Personally, Sarek and Goodday I think BWilkens would protest a removal of a block he extended. And from watching this from my watchlist, the conversation seems to go in circles. With editors and admins a like feeling offended. I think the best plan would be for to leave this block to run its course for a short while and then in a day or two (without arguement); Factocop may be in a better position to contest the block and have it removed. (I further don't believe that continuing to mention "You have my sympathy" shall achieve anything.) " --NorthernCounties (talk) 17:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

about your templating
Please consider wp:Templar "Don't template the regulars". An excerpt:

These templates serve to explain the various rules to new editors. When novice editors break rules, it is quite possible (if we assume good faith, which we must) that they are unaware of it, and educating them is helpful. On the other hand, most editors who have been around for a while are aware of these rules. If you believe that they have broken (or are about to break) one, it is frequently the result of some disagreement over the interpretation of the rule, or temporarily heated tempers. In such situations, sticking to "did you know we had a rule against this" mentality tends to be counterproductive in resolving the issue, as it can be construed as being patronising and uncivil.

About the Talk page formatting issues at Talk:El Zaribah Shrine Auditorium, please note that i opened a Talk page discussion section on the topic and have tried to discuss it there. I notice you have not, with your choosing to revert and communicate only by edit summaries. I appreciate that Blueboar had the decency to reply in the Talk page formatting section, and, by an edit further above, seems to accept the normal formatting that my edits restored. I don't happen to think your contributions in this have been helpful so far, and I do find your templating me as the last sentence in the quote above suggests. --doncram (talk) 02:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Have you read Do Template the Regulars?? ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 13:18, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
For the block. I'm in class and am supposed to be pretending to take notes, so you've made my day easier. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. Wonder how long before he cycles his IP and starts again... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Dunno. Makes me reconsider applying for a banhammer, though (probably shouldn't).  Ian.thomson (talk) 15:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, he figured out how to reset his modem, and continues to evade his block by reinserting his WP:POINT-y crap. I can haz page protection, please?  Ian.thomson (talk) 17:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Mick MacNee
I thought you would find this of interest Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.  RGTraynor  18:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

McCain
You just restored known forgeries, and you're complaining at Rd for misapplying BLPN? *boggle* --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, well the content has been there for some long time, and after looking at it, I was supporting the stable content and attempting to get the two users back to discussion. Forgeries, is cited forgeries, discussion was my objective, there is nothing boggle about that, it is wiki way. Off2riorob (talk) 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Blanked it, gone
[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Off2riorob&curid=20562883&diff=396200178&oldid=396199434]. FYI. Seems to be a common occurrence over there. Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 21:35, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps if you look up instead of at your own navel you will see where it is gone. Off2riorob (talk) 21:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I see, gone from your talk page. ;) -- Cirt (talk) 21:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Best is if you keep your eyes on your navel and away from my talkpage, you are not involved in this issue at all. Off2riorob (talk) 21:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * O2RR likes a pretty talk page. Topics I've raised on his talk page have been moved to mine in exactly the same way.  Nomoskedasticity (talk) 21:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes,, I have noticed this disturbing behavior pattern, as well. -- Cirt (talk) 21:44, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That is correct, I shift shit from my talkpage on sight, if you wanna talk about it, host it on your talkpage, is my position. Off2riorob (talk) 21:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Triton and others
I see that you have declined Triton's unblock review and have locked Triton's talk page. Where was the discussion authorizing you to remove Triton's access to the user talk page? Considering your prior involvement in this area, I would recommend that you return Triton's access to the talk page.

You have made a number of blocks recently (LemonBoy, GiacomoReturned, Malleus) that were questionable and overturned quickly. Factocop possibly fits in there, too. You also have some questionable involvement with other blocks (TreasuryTag comes to mind), and Triton). Every admin makes a questionable decision once in a while, but you have quite a few in a short time. What's going on? Gimmetoo (talk) 13:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * His prior unblock appeal was taken to the community, and after two days worth of discussion, was determined by an uninvolved admin with experience in ethnic conflicts to have failed. He then filed another unblock request that boiled down to "THE IRISH ARE OUT TO GET ME!" You're goddamned right I locked his talk page. He had been clearly told that it was a community decision, and that consensus would allow him to appeal in 3 months, but he nevertheless decided to continue posting huge walls of text claiming that it was everyone else's fault. For this reason, I felt that he was abusing the unblock process, and removed his talkpage access. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:09, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And I disagree with your removal of Triton's talk page access. What about the other controversial administrative actions you have performed recently? Gimmetoo (talk) 13:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. What about them? That's far too general a question. If you have specific issues on each action you'd like me to address, I'd be happy to. It might be better to do that at WP:AN or a similar venue, to get a wider variety of opinion. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I was hoping you would show some understanding of the concern, which is not specific to each action, but to the overall pattern. Do you have any comment, here? Gimmetoo (talk) 02:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Both LemonMonday and Factocop were correct blocks overall (without looking at the others). Statistically speaking, when two of the four in your supposed "pattern" do not match, your generalization falls apart. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 09:27, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I did say "Factocop possibly fits in here", but LemonMonday's block was disputed and reversed. See also User talk:SarekOfVulcan/Archive 11. I would appreciate a response from SarekOfVulcan. Gimmetoo (talk) 12:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I told you I'd be happy to comment on any specific issues. "Your blocks suck" is not nearly specific enough. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:35, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You've made a number of bad blocks recently, and bad interactions with other blocks. Do you have any explanation or comment? Gimmetoo (talk) 23:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I see you have not responded to this, yet. I do not see any discussion about removing Triton's talk page access. That's a rather serious step, and I don't think it's justified. First, will you, or won't you, reverse that action and restore Triton's talk page access? Second, will you, or won't you, provide any explanation for your series of questionable blocks? Gimmetoo (talk) 13:08, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The removal of TR's talkpage access in some ways is quite similar to my removal of Factocop's – acting as WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and WP:POINT while trying to get unblocked is an abuse of the process. TR's continued insistence that he was unable to discuss himself on ANI was pure unadulterated BS, Factocop's insistence that his 1RR block was invalid but even still not addressing the reasons for what was his current block are perfect disruption examples.  Let's just emphasize the "I" in WP:RBI ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 13:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Gimmetoo in fairness these are really strange questions coming from an admin (since Gimeetoo is an alt account of Gimmetrow). Have you seen what the position with Factocop turned out to be? And WRT to TR's talk page removals do you, as an admin, stand over the TR's use of the talk space in clear violation of WP:TPG, WP:NOTTHEM and WP:AGF? I'm asking because you suggest TR doesn't deserve his talk page disabled this inferring that his conduct on WP might be acceptable to you – am I wrong in this supposition?-- Cailil  talk 20:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * They are strange questions, especially as they are not really specific questions. They are, in the main, statements followed by queries of the form "what's going on?", "do you have any comment" etc. pablo 22:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

You really do walk into these things, don't you...
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ╟─TreasuryTag► draftsman ─╢ 08:34, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Ksaine
I added some advice to Ksaine's talk page without seeing you'd just warned for (essentially) the same thing. The "24 hours and 10 minutes" thing is probably something he needs to be aware of. However, feel free to remove my additional advice if you feel that we're bombarding him with too much information all at once. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's excessive, but I'd rather have my warning pulled than yours, since it's clearer on the no-gaming aspect of things. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

hullaballoo and dekki, edit war on pornographic articles
yesterday hullaballoo and dekki edit warred on various article about japanese models, i reluctantly* stepped in and reverted HW once with a stern warning and spoke to him via my talk page, i haven't taken it further as its a day old but the edit war was quite wide spread, do we drag HW to ANI or do we wait to see if the war flares up again, since both sides don't want to surrender. *(i don't want to go back to those 'ahem' articles again as there em a bit dirty x_X) --Lerdthenerd (talk) 15:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

NFCC violation at Hitomi Kobayashi
We went through this already, back in July. As admin KWW pointed out then, "But he [Wolfowitz] was not mistaken. Once he challenged the material, it needed to be removed until there was consensus to readd, especially since it's a blatantly obvious NFCC#1 violation. His removal makes it clear that there was not a consensus to restore the material. Anyone could have taken the material to FFD. If somehow a consensus was achieved that this was one of the vanishingly rare exceptions to the general agreement that copyrighted pictures cannot be used to illustrate BLPs, it could be restored. Until that agreement is reached, the image can't be in the article. It was the restoration that was disruptive, not the removal.—Kww(talk) 17:52, 29 July 2010 (UTC) A test case was also run at FFD with a clear and strong consensus for deletion. There was lengthy discussion on the policy talk, without any resulting change in the policy language or enforcement practices.Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 47 Over the last few months, I've reviewed thousands of nonfree images, removing several hundred using virtually identical edit summaries and rationales, and the only significant controversy has come from a small group of users insisting on special treatment for articles about Japanese porn, and who press the same arguments repeatedly despite community rejection. We don't need to rehash a settled issue every time an old NFCC violation turns up. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:01, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Then challenge the fair-use criteria on the image, not on the article.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not the process called for by NFCC policy, nor is it consistent with the established consensus. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note on this, Sarek. WP's tolerance for HW's constant, non-stop edit-warring has caused me to stop contributing here. The "edit-wars" seen above were just demonstrations of HW's standard behavior for the benefit of Requests for comment/Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. The real edit-wars were in the past. About the image, frankly, after a change in "policy" a few years ago, I've accepted their removed without complaint. This image removal was part of a mass-removal of sourced content over numerous articles I've worked on. Purely coincidentally, the removal was going on while I was criticizing HW at the RfC... Dekkappai (talk) 20:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The image has a presumably-valid fair-use criteria for that article, HW. Therefore, it is usable on that article. If you think the fair-use criteria is invalid, the image page is the place to do it. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no valid fair use for that picture to be in the infobox of her BLP representing her when t is quite possible to have a commons valid license, do you mind it I remove it from the article? Off2riorob (talk) 21:01, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I mind. The Image page says it's valid to use there. Challenge it there, then it makes sense to remove it from the article. Until the NFUR is shown to be invalid, there's no reason to remove the link. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, we are advised in BLP to err on the side of caution, carry on as you feel, but usually say, if in doubt, take it out. Off2riorob (talk) 21:33, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That "presumably valid" justification was rejected by a clear and strong consensus several months ago, in the discussions I cited. Why do you believe it's necessary to waste editors' time going through the process ad nauseam? Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:26, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Franz Lidz revision
Dearest Sarek, Would you please explain your objection to my revision? The story referred to is no doubt "rollicking" -- it's quite comical and was rchly written by a journalist who specializes in satire. The use of the word "questionable" would also seem to be beyond question -- the entire point of the story was to question the ethics and claims of Garside, who openly admited to lying and cheating. I'm puzzled by your beef with these two rather benign adjectives -- they accurately convey the gist of the feature story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TruthBTold212 (talk • contribs) 20:30, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * When used here, they're uncited personal opinion relating to a biography of a living person, and are therefore inappropriate. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:05, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by "uncited" -- the citation provided is to the actual published story. In fact, that's what the story – which itself refers to numerous other published accounts -- is about. Are you really saying that the words "rollicking" and "questionable" are personal opinions? If so, what about just: "an account of a bizarre encounter with Robert Garside..." The encounter Mr. Lidz describes in the story is inarguably "bizarre" and not a "personal opinion" by any stretch. That is precisely what makes his story such a fascinating read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TruthBTold212 (talk • contribs) 01:53, 18 November 2010 (UTC)