User talk:SatyrTN/Archive 9

I hear you requested..
User:SatyrTN/Genre (magazine) and User:SatyrTN/David Atlanta. Have fun!  Kwsn  (Ni!)  22:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks!!! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 23:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Why Hello There!
I always see your name on my watchlist edits and stuff. I see we've got a bit in common! Just wanted to formally say hi! :) --Dan Leveille 23:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've become obsessed with Wikipedia. It's so much fun, haha. I'm not sure how much snow is in Berlin right now. I'm at RIT currently, majoring in web development. Over here we have like 3 inches. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danlev (talk • contribs) 23:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Coding
Do you code javascript? --  ALLSTAR  echo  18:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Often - whatcha need? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you familiar with the javascript used to do things on WP such as Twinkle and adding Google search and Yahoo search to the left side of the page over there? See my monobook.js for all the neat little thingies I'm using.


 * Now, what I am wanting is to install something where all I have to do is click a status to change this instead of having to always manually go to User:Allstarecho/Status and manually changing it to in/out/busy. I imagine it's along the lines of how Twinkle anti-vandal reverts/rollbacks articles and such. -  ALLSTAR  echo  20:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Something you wanna/don't wanna do? -- ALLSTAR  echo 05:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeh. Hm. I could probably do it, but it would take me such a long time to figure out.  It's not just JavaScript, it's also using all the bits that Wikipedia has on their standard page.  If I were you, I'd either contact the people that wrote the tools you're currently using, or put a note on WP:BOTREQ and see who has the expertise to do that.  I'm probably not the best one for that, sorry :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello, please could you help me?
Hello, I hope you are well. My name is Pi and i am an adoptee of Dev920, i asked her a query about bots and she advised me to ask you about it. I've been looking into making a bot as i have a few ideas of automated functions i'd like done. I have (i think) good enough programming experience to make the thing but despite reading the articles on bots i am still a little confused about the rules, however i would love the experience and it's something i've wanted to do for a while. Before i request bot approval am i allowed to either use the software to make edits simply to test the code or idealy let it loose to think for itself, provided it was confined to my own userspace? I haven't been able to find this out from the wikipedia pages and wondered if you could help. :)

Good luck with your RFA too :D

Thanks in advance xxx Pi 17:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeh - I saw your post on Dev's page. First, and this should be clarified in the Bot pages, a bot is *NOT* allowed to make any *edits* in any namespace without prior approval from WP:RFBA.  That's pretty much sacrosanct policy.


 * Now, with that out of the way, what language(s) do you write in? Most bot owners fall into two categories (and this is just my opinion) - the first are people who download the code and modify/use it for whatever they're working on; the second are people who make bots for the challenge/joy/whatever of coding them. Do you feel like either of those?  And lastly, are you aware of API?


 * Thanks - I'm cruising along with the RfA and learning a lot, so that's good :) We'll see how it turns out! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

FLC
I still don't see things taking a month. I monitor this closely for WP:CHIDISCUSS.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 19:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Michael Cornelius
- thanks, I couldn't find an actual reference anywhere. Good work! Neil  ☎  12:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

LGBT organizations in Mississippi
I only created the category as a replacement for a misspelled category that already existed. I actually agree that subcategories by state aren't warranted right now — the parent category just isn't large enough. Bearcat (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Since I'm the one that created the cat, I'm the kind of person to create miscellaneous cats willy-nilly and did you not replace the cat with Category:LGBT organizations in the United States on purpose? One or the other should be on those 2 articles, should it not? -- ALLSTAR  echo 18:30, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Didn't notice you making the cat: - - or I would have asked you about it, sorry! :)  I didn't put them in  the "lgbt orgs" cat because Outoberfest is a music event, not an organization and Equality Mississippi was already in Category:LGBT rights organizations and Category:LGBT political advocacy groups in the United States.  If you think Equality MS should be in the "lgbt orgs" cat, by all means go for it - I just thought it was kinda overkill - just my opinion :)

Bunny Roger
Thanks for expanding Bunny Roger, I think it's the only time I've seen someone nom for deletion, then make the article better! :) Gareth E Kegg (talk) 12:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

That Icelandic rock star
And I actually got blocked for reverting on that article. :-( Jeffpw 15:40, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfairly, IMHO. I read through the timeline and think you were reverting vandalism.  I'm glad it only lasted a few minutes, but that's extremely annoying! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  15:47, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Err, a few minutes? I was blocked for over 2 hours. The...hmmmm...well meaning admin forgot to remove the autoblock after finally unblocking me. nasty, that, and at the moment I am not feeling like making many more positive contributions here. Jeffpw 15:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Augh! That long!?  I was reading it well after, so didn't notice the timestamps.  Grr!  Go take a walk, hon - or is it time for a cocktail where you are? I'll take care of sending the newsletter out.  Btw, I've acquiesced. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  15:52, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Alas, cocktail time for me is little more than a glass of warm milk. I watched The Wizard Of oz to feel better, and now have to interview someone for the book I am writing. Good job running, and I have waved a pink flag on the page for you. Jeffpw 16:00, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Awww - thanks for the support :) Have a cocktail on me, then! What book are you writing?  I've got laundry to take care of. Blech. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  16:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been working for the last 7 months on the biography of James Robert Baker, with the cooperation of family and friends of his. I've interviewed many really interesting people, like Dennis Cooper, The Angry Samoans Glen Meadmore, David Trinidad and Larry Kramer, among others. It's been fun, but difficult. Have fun with your laundry. Jeffpw 16:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi - I just wanted to answer your request for clarification. Although, with a week's hindsight, it all seems like a waste of vital energy now. :) I objected to "openly" because I don't believe that Jonsi refers to himself with this word. My evidence for this is the Sigur Ros FAQ (which I believe was written by Jonsi and his bandmates), in which he simply calls himself "gay".  Yes, there are plenty of sources (some even linked on the band's website) that refer to him otherwise, (e.g. "openly gay") but I believe that the Manual of Style overrules these other sources, since they aren't his own words.  Obviously, Jonsi is gay, obviously he's open about it, and obviously (I hope!) you realize that I want people to know that he's gay.  I've spent a great deal of time adding "gay" back into the article after anonymous editors removed this word, or replaced it with the essentialist and (IMHO problematic) term "a homosexual".

Those are the grounds, from a Wiki-rules standpoint, on which I objected to "openly gay" vs. gay. Now, on a personal standpoint, I object to the term "openly" because, like some other editors have noted, it suggests that being gay is shameful and something to hide. As a gay man, I object to the use of the term "openly" because I believe it is heteronormative. This is clearly a matter of debate, and I was very surprised that there are gay people who didn't agree with me! I'm guilty of assuming that this logic was self-evident, and I apologize if I didn't make this clearer earlier.

Now, I may be incorrect that "openly gay" is heteronormative, but I still think that the MOS compels us to use Jonsi's own description. If the FAQ isn't Jonsi's own words, then I have no case at all. I also want to concede that my block was justified on the grounds of 3RR. However, I really, really hope that you no longer think that my edits were vandalism, because I've spent so much time on Wikipedia fixing vandalism, that this accusation does sting a bit. I also want to say that I *desperately* wanted someone to engage with me on the MOS#Identity claim, because while I fully acknowledge that I may be interpreting this rule incorrectly, no one (to date) has ever discussed this with me. I'm still unfamiliar with the many rules of Wikipedia and please understand that, from my perspective it seems that, for every rule, there's another rule that can be used to argue the opposite perspective. And it may be that I just don't understand the rules! But, for the life of me, I find it so hard to get people to explain these rules...they just throw out a link to them in an argument and don't explain how they apply. It comes off as if they're just trying to stifle debate, and consequently I've left Wikipedia feeling very awful on more than one occasion.

Sorry for carrying on so long. Ultimately, this does seem very petty, but I felt (and still do) that I was working, in good faith, to a) discuss the changes to everyone's satisfaction and b) to improve the article in accordance with best practices. Best wishes - X3210 (talk) 03:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, X3210! Has it been a week already?  A block (or two?) later, an WP:RfA labeling *me* as WP:ABF and saying I labeled *you* as a WP:V - isn't that enough acronyms for one evening? :) :)
 * Wait - You're gay, too? Hmph - and here I was assuming *you* were removing the word out of heteronormativity! Ok - live and learn time :)
 * You're right - WP:ID (MOS#Identity) says we can't describe Jonsi as something he doesn't describe to himself. We seem to start to disagree at the word "openly", which (in my opinion) is an adjective modifying "gay", not "Jonsi".  In other words, "How gay is he?" "He's openly gay".  I don't know about WP:ID coming in to play here.  I mean, we both agree that Jonsi describes himself as gay, so that's no problem.  Would we disagree about the word "flamboyantly"? Probably not, because neither Jonsi nor any of the articles about Jonsi use that word.
 * I guess I don't believe WP:ID comes into play here mostly because almost no one uses the word "openly" about themselves. I just say "I'm gay", not "I'm openly gay" - even though I have rainbows plastered everywhere.  But the word does become important when it comes to public figures, in my opinion, because not all gay public figures are open about it.  One wouldn't use the word "openly" to refer to Senator Craig, for instance, but would use it to refer to Ellen.
 * So back to your question (I'm a bit rambly tonight)... The reason no one engaged with you on WP:ID is because we didn't see it applying to the specific word.
 * And on tangential topics, I'm sorry I used the word "vandal" to describe you. My very first interaction with you was when you inexplicably (I thought, at the time) removed the word "openly".  I'm having the same issue with an IP on Jay Brannan at the moment, though the IP is removing the whole sentence about him being gay.  I see people removing "gay" all the time, which is almost always vandalism, so that was the label I picked when describing you. As I look back on the edit history, I see you were trying to engage in discussion and I was still using the vandalism stick, and for that I truly apologize. Fighting vandalism takes up so much time, it leaves one unable to better the encyclopedia and bitter about that, so again, my apologies.
 * Please do write back and let me know if I've rambled too much or if I've explained why I think WP:ID doesn't apply - and why I thing the word "openly" does apply. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh my goodness - I hope that stupid argument doesn't spoil your chance to be an admin. You've been here so long and made so many contributions.  ARGH.  I feel like hiding my head in the sand now!  Is there anything I can do to help?  I'll be happy to make a comment somewhere on your behalf, or if you think I should never mention it again, I'll do that too!!  *Bangs head on desk*


 * I do see your logic in the application of MOS#Identity, although that point of view is not the way I would immediately see it...either way it doesn't matter much. Gah.  Please let me know if there's anything I can help you get your adminship.  X3210 (talk) 03:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah - don't worry about it! this "support" statement pretty much summed up what I was feeling.  And a couple people were spooked - that's fine.  I did call you a vandal, after all :) Oh, and as two side notes, feel free to comment on the RfA if you want - but I'm not canvassing you!  And two, take a look at Sun Ra and Little Richard some time.  One's an artist that one might be able to describe as gay, though certainly not "open", the other's an artist that one could have called openly gay, but not any more.  In fact, poor LR's article has been stripped of almost all mention of his sexuality. Blech. Anyway, it's just a word.  BTW, if we haven't scared you off too terribly badly, have a look around WP:LGBT? We're always looking for experienced (and thoughtful) editors - and I promise we don't all bite =D -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you awake?
Well are you????? Jeffpw (talk) 14:51, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

List of production battery electric vehicles/Table
No, it's not a subpages. We can't have subpages in articlespace. It looks incomplete (but maybe I'm jut misreading). Page format variations (we have two list of popes in FLs) are normally marked with parentheses. Circeus (talk) 16:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

IWGP World Tag Team Championship
Thank you for your comments on this article's Featured List nomination. I believe that I have addressed your concerns. If you have a minute, would you be able to look over the article and check? Thanks again. GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

School
Pack your bags, looks like you're getting ready to go to school! -- ALLSTAR  echo 16:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, Mr. Administrator!



 * Awww - thanks :) I **LOVE** that picture!  That's worthy of FisherQueen! :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)



Help is on the way, dear
What kinds of medications may help OCD?

The majority of the drugs that help OCD are classified as antidepressants. It is important to note that depression results from the disability produced by OCD. Doctors can treat both the OCD and depression with the same medication.

There are also a number of disorders that are possibly related to OCD, such as compulsive gambling and sexual behaviors, trichotillomania, body dysmorphic disorder, compulsive eating, nail biting and compulsive spending. There is evidence that the medications and behavior therapies discussed in this pamphlet will help some of these patients. But more research is needed in this area to give firm recommendations.


 * You're just trying to get me to run to wiktionary to look up all those polysyllabic words! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Protection stuff
I wasn't even aware there was a new admin school. It seems a little, well, outdated. A typical protection time is more like 5 days to a week, increasing to 2 if if gets worse. Office actions refer to WP:OFFICE, and it use to be User:Danny's job, but I have no idea who does it now or if there's been any Office Actions in the past couple months. An Office Action is just someone from the office (probably someone from the WMF now) protecting a page because someone called in about an article and the article violated a policy (usually BLP or COI), so they usually usually stub and protect it. The protection summary will always say "office action" or something similar or link to WP:OFFICE. We just don't touch those ones. Indefinite move protection is common, and by indefinite I just mean without an expiry date set.

The page about excessively long semiprotected articles is here. It lists them by date protected from oldest to newest. Usually what you do when looking to unprotect a page is first look through the page history to see if it's worth it to unprotect (if it's semiprotected and still getting lots of vandalism, then it's usually not worth it). Check the protection reason, because another thing you've got to watch out for is OTRS (Open Ticket Request System). It's like a level under office kind of, and it has restricted access on meta. I don't have access to OTRS, so usually when I come across something like that I just ask the protecting admin if the issues been cleared up, and if it has they usually unprotect it themselves. If you're seeing protection summaries like "random annon vandalism" or "mass vandalism", don't worry about it. Protection summaries are sometimes exaggerated.

The best way to learn is to just jump right in. WP:RFPP sometimes has a couple pages that need looking at. You might want to add User:Steel359/protection.js to your monobook.js too. It's got some quick pre-loaded responses for RFPP, and a couple pre-set values for actual protection pages, and can help remove protection tags when unprotecting (unless they're the really old ones). Good luck and congratulations on becoming an admin! -Royalguard11 (T·R!) 01:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Adminship
Congratulations, you are now an administrator! Now is the time to visit the New admin school and, if you haven't already, to look through the Administrators' how-to guide and Administrators' reading list. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me, or at the Administrators' noticeboard. Warofdreams talk 17:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Congratulations Satyr! WOO HOO! XD Raystorm   (¿Sí?)  17:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well done! Apologies for what I felt (in retrospect) may have been an unfounded argument in the neutral section in your RFA, which I later changed to a support. Well done once again. All the best, &mdash; Rudget speak.work 17:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, and no hard feelings whatsoever! I was surprised and pleased that you took the time to review it! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Allstar, hon... Thank you so much for the accolades! You may, however, be ... overdoing it... Just a thought =D -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, just so happy for you... -- ALLSTAR  echo 04:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * NP! :) I'm happy for me too! =D -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Good luck with the adminship - rather you than me. The WP Opera/Wagner Project has benefited greatly from your BOT expertise, and hope that we may be able to make use of it again before too long - if you're not too busy adminning, that is! Best. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, GT - and feel free to hit me up about WP:Opera/Wagner - no problem :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * My congratulations too. Good luck, and don't hesitate to come calling should you need some advice in your early mop days! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:38, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Canogratulations. I didn't see the RfA until now, but I'm glad it succeeded. Thanks for contributing to the project, and thanks for picking up the old mop-and-bucket. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 21:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * And my congratulations also. I couldn't be happier, as you deserve it. [Although why anyone would want all that extra work....]  You have my unqualified support. Peace and love brother. — Becksguy (talk) 21:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the dark side! Well done and good luck. &mdash;Moondyne 23:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Congrats mate - and good luck ;-) ... WjBscribe 02:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ditto, congrats! Benjiboi 03:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Let's see if those stalkers come after my sisters, brothers, etc, NOW! =D -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

And just to add to the pile... No, seriously, congrats, and enjoy your Sadie days of mop-wielding! As we Aussies say, "Onya, mate!" ;) •97198 talk  14:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Conga rats, as we rasseffers say! -- Orange Mike  |  Talk  14:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow. Did you know there's only four Google hits for "rasseffer"? =D -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Congrats, congrats, congratulations, Satyr, on your becoming an admin! I know you'll do a good job! :) Aleta (talk) 05:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! I'm so happy to see that you got your adminship! X3210 (talk) 09:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Removing image specs
Removing image sizes from List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: W-Z hovers "Reference" row in table and produces an empty space under "Y" section. Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11, Microsoft Windows XP SP2, screen resolution 1280x960. See examples. Visor (talk) 19:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * 1. But WP:MOS says: However, the image subject or image properties may call for a specific image width to enhance the readability or layout of an article. 2. Revision which candidated to WP:FL had specified image sizes. Visor (talk) 22:06, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, maybe majority of people don't seem to have a problem in this particular case and I can easily setup preferences or just skip this issue, but it is not a solution for unlogged users with the same screen resolution as me. I don't think they would like to register, login and setup preferences to see hovered columns. In examples given by you, this problem just doesn't exist in my case—everything is visible and there are no empty gaps. In my opinion, we can't switch columns, because some contect will be still invisible, and what about other lists? Maybe just leave it :) Visor (talk) 23:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, seems you are right—It's just my prefs issue. I've done some tests when I was unlogged and the problems were still there, but after I have cleared the browser cache, everything is OK (no gaps, no hovering). Sorry for wasting your time. Visor (talk) 23:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:LOTD
You are the nominator of a WP:FL that was promoted in the last month. I am inviting you to participate in nominations and voting in a List of the Day experiment I am conducting at WP:LOTD.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 23:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Steve Gunderson (actor)
Can you have a look on that page and person ? Does that person really exist or is it a good fake ?(because of open gay politician Steven Gunderson) ? Some of the links in lemma Steve Gunard (actor) are broken ? 212.95.108.44 (talk) 15:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC) (german User:GLGermann) 212.95.108.44 (talk) 15:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not sure, it the actions of User:Tuffy genders are correct ? 212.95.108.44 (talk) 16:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the IMDb and a google search, Gunderson the actor does exist, ditto the cat killer movie you linked below. Jeffpw (talk) 16:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep - "Steve Gunderson" shows up as the gay Republican congressman, as well as an actor, and even one or two others. They're not the same person, and they exist.  I'll take a look at the links on the actor's page. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't you think "gay republican" is about the clearest example of oxymoron you have ever come across? :-S Jeffpw (talk) 16:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * IMO, just another form of Surrealism... -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Log Cabin Republicans is an apt term, in my eyes. It reminds me of Lincoln logs, which in turn reminds me of Lincoln, our first gay President. Jeffpw (talk) 17:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Just FYI, I cleaned out the dead links and made a disambig page Steve Gunderson name. -- ALLSTAR  echo 16:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Topsy and Bunker: The Cat Killers
And does this film really exist, where the actor Steve Gunderson should play ? Or is it a good gay fake ? 212.95.108.44 (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm having a harder time with this one. It's listed at IMDB and about 15-20 other websites, but none of them can be considered reliable sources.  On sites that aren't copies of here or IMDB, the movie is listed in conjunction with either Gunderson, Kathy Najimy, or Paul Robertson, almost always in bios (like "Najimy, the star of "Sister Act" and "Topsy and Bunker"...)  Only on Robertson's personal site is there much information - . It's also a "Surrealist film".  No one has it for sale.  IMDB actually links back here.  Truthfully, even if it's real, it's a candidate for Afd - no assertion of notability, no reliable sources.  I'm going to post over at WP:FILM and see if anyone can shed any light. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the fact that virtually the entire plot summary has been lifted from IMDb. Jeffpw (talk) 16:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This might help. Benjiboi 20:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Matthew Waterhouse's sexuality
I actually thought that it was well know among Doctor Who fans that he is gay. He's been politically active in the LGBT community. Here are some references   --Pinkkeith (talk) 18:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Stunning
Perhaps if I told LGBT "Studies" that James Arthur Williams and "Midnight in the Garden in Good and Evil" was a story about gay Japanese fish, the LGBT tag would be OK? Stunning! Jacksinterweb (talk) 06:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hunh?!? Yes, I know what Midnight is about.  But a random reader might not know anything at all about the book, movie, etc (shame on them!).  So at the very least the article should say *something* about his being gay - at the moment there's not a mention of it at all. And it would be terribly nice if there was a reference to that effect? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 07:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I ran across the article doing work on another project, and made the mistake of being bold and tagging it LGBT. Pardon a newcomer for not getting the precise standards of this project, where fake fish are gay, but a gay man who kills his gay lover is not (because previous editors fail to state that they're gay).    Tell me what was thought process on random readers running across Japanese gay fish orgies?  Jacksinterweb (talk) 07:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Jack, hon, I'm *glad* you tagged it. But have you read the article?  The article states nothing about he or his lover being gay.  It says Hansford was his "assistant", but that's it.  So now it has the "source me" tag and someone will come along and add some references and clean it up.  Continue to be bold :) And I'm totally lost about the Japanese fish - what in the world are you talking about?!? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 07:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * A hoax article about Japanese fish whose name in english translated into "pole smoker" Said fish would have gay orgies and kill any gay fish that turned straight.  Nineteen cops were killed in a gay riot over the cops calling Kyoto gays by the fish name.  This got tagged LGBT, no sources, no Google hits.  Check LGBT Discussion page.  The article was AfD'd eventually.  Jacksinterweb (talk) 07:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * PS I actually thought the fish article was funny, and the LGBT tagging made it funnier ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksinterweb (talk • contribs) 08:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh *That* one! I didn't read the whole article :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It was hilarious but because of the cultural disconnect we needed someone to confirm it was nonsense although references to an "anal licking society" was a clue. Benjiboi 20:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Let me also note that while I did tag the article with the project, I immediately posted a query about it on the project's talk page and then prodded it. It went to AfD pretty quickly after the author of the page colntested the prod. So it didn't exactly sit around as an accepted article in the project. Aleta (talk) 02:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Reviews-News coverage Naresh Sonee & Brhmaand Pujan
.

In India, though there are countless lengthy articles, reviews & news in newspapers on Naresh Sonee or his Sacred Scripture Brhmaand Pujan , Among those one of the  largest  circulating    National Hindi Newspaper Punjab Kesari  reviews on Wednesday 29, December, 1999, On it’s page 6 writes- Below review is translated from Hindi to  English -

BRHMAAND PUJAN BOOK REVIEW -The Creator ‘Brhmaand’ which means the Universe, It’s  tiny child earth and all microscopic  people on it, including each and every living or non beings on it, To know them, should  not only be  the intention or aim of  human or mankind. However, If you need to reach ‘Some Thing’ or you need /seek some thing from ‘Some One’. The seeker has  to truly think and be familiar  with the write way ‘Exact Knowledge’ and experience to find /reach/approach  that ‘Some One’. To know ‘Some One’ and to reach or be familiar with ‘Some One’ are two different things. In such issues, Human are still innocent and ignorant. They are not shown the right way due to their ego clashes of religions. They can’t concentrate or find the right way to reach/approach  the ‘One God’. Who is ‘Some One’. Proper, true way and means including ‘transparently true prayers and outspoken encounters’ are required to reach that ‘One Almighty’ and that what Naresh Sonee Sohum Sutra has succeeded to show the  ‘unwise human’  through his Brhmaand Pujan –{Universal Prayer}. And so the desperate seekers who need to get wise or want to reach God or want some thing from Him should certainly read Brhmaand Pujan. On reading the same, one get totally mesmerizing ly involved and engrossed in Godly thoughts, thereafter becoming tensionless, fearless and happy indeed. The author has taken an oath to use and distribute the income from this book for helping  needy poor.

Punjab Kesari is a National Indian Hindi News Paper. It claims to sustain to spread and distribute the largest circulation of newspapers in India. It’s Official Internet site is http://www.punjabkesari.com/
 * On google search – Punjab Kesari News Paper hits
 * http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=punjab+kesari+news+paper&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Soon, shortly I will be adding more newspapers reviews/articles-Alan Sun- --203.194.104.23 (talk) 07:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Keep my pages.
Respected Editor, Keep my page Please keep my page Naresh Sonee & Brhmaand Pujan. Within couple of days I am going to submit / add a brief translation in English of 8 to 10 Indian (non English) Hindi newspapers reviews & news covering 'newspapers names,date of publication, a brief translated summary of these matter published on Naresh Sonee & Brhmaand Pujan. If you wish I can also create a URL templete covering such photo scanned copies of such 'news & reviews'. Kindly extent your co operation to hold & keep my page & do the needful. -Alan Sun---203.194.97.1 (talk) 18:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Certainly, I will try to convince you. Hold down for couple of days more. I will receive news & reviews on Naresh Sone & Brhmaand Pujan till then by my email.Sorry to keep you holding. Till then kindly keep my page on hold. -Alan Sun---203.194.97.1 (talk) 18:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Re Nominate Naresh sonee page and KEEP it alive please
Dear Anarchia, Zetawoof, Double Blue, SatyaTN, Meanwhile, I have already added two newspaper translated reveiws on Naresh Sonee page as per your instruction. In day or two I will be adding more. Your goodself were the Editors who were looking after my page. I have also requested Graeme, Kindly when ever your good selves feel free or have time, you'll feel free to edit Naresh Sonee  &  Brhmaand Pujan pages. I again request you'll to edit, improve & beautiyfy the same more.I can also email or post here scanned copies of newspaers of India. If there still exist some doubt in you in my integrity. or for my Guru Naresh Sonee. Please also see that the page sustain / exist for good global noble reasons and reactions. I am not here to spread hatred in world. Regarding the lines you object 'contraversial poet' - 'aroused reaction' on my page etc. Some editor must have changed my original script. Genuinely I have nothing to do with all that. If you check my first day page,of Dec 2007. My original lines says-

Naresh Sonee Sohum Sutra is an Indian poet-author born on 11th February 1958 in Phagwara- Punjab. He is a commerce college drop out. At the age of four he and his three sisters along with his parents shifted their base to Mumbai. His father was a small time ‘wrist watch parts’ business man. Naresh Sonee enjoyed an in built quality of scribbling rhymes since the age of eleven. He writes in his country language Hindi as well as English. -'

Some editors must had done changes of words, sentences for the sake of improvement. such change and added contraversial line 'aroused reaction etc... were not put by me.If you can check with your tools, check it out.I am innocent. Those are not my line. Any way I will re put to original line. But 'You all Dear' please also guide how can one keep constant tract on it done pages reading, verfying them time & again. You too will agree, It is not possible for me to guard my page every hour. if some new editor add such line innocently or ignorantly to improve the compostion. What can I do? Pls help me all of you. In due course I also fear that rigid religious or LGBT group/individual can also jump / interfere with my page to play mischief in editing in the name of improving or cleaning up. So guide me the right way as you all are all expert. Save rescue me please. Sincere Request-Alan Sun---203.192.228.98 (talk) 09:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

A List
Seriously unimpressed. Adding gay and lesbian is utterly redundant, grr.

On another note, can you create a design for me please? I'm helping organise a carnival for the Amnesty "Love is a Human Right" Campaign, and they want a logo of a heart with raindow feathered wings, sort of like this, but not so grainy. Would it be possible for you to put together three versions - one plain heart with rainbow wings, one with a candle on it somehere, and one with the heart surrounded by Amnesty barbed wire? I figured after the carnival were done we could use them as a WP:LGBT specific icon, like the purple hearts and things we're using now when our members get bashed around. What do you reckon? I'll do anything for you... :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm pretty busy with RL work :( How soon do you need it? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:22, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * They wanted it before Christmas, but the next meeting is January 4th. Take it until then if you need it - money making comes first. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy Holidays
  You got a Christmas card! → → →

Re: Houston Voice
The talk page had this on it:

Hope this helps! <small style="background:#fff;border:#000 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 06:48, November 28, 2007

I have posted indian newspapers reviews on my page
Soon I will add more. Please verify the facts.

From Indian News papers, I have started collecting, adding reviews, articles on Naresh Sonee
Please read the same. I have also submitted on original page Naresh Sonee under Indian News papers reviews. few more Newspapers Original scanned copy in picture jpeg form I have received via email. I am getting translation done by me itself. But if any of your goodself too could help I can post here to you or anywhere you need them. These reviews / new/ articles from....

Paranormal to do list
Could you add "merge" tags to the list of watched entries?

perfectblue (talk) 15:03, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ Done! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Lists of Michigan Wolverines football receiving leaders
Can you now support Lists of Michigan Wolverines football receiving leaders?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 15:42, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Teleny or The Reverse of the Medal
Teleny is notable...It's a novel by Oscar Wilde! I will try to add more references, but do you think the notability tag is really necessary?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * At the moment, the article doesn't say the novel satisfies any of the criteria of notability for books. I think the tag should stay there until the article stated which one and why.  Just my opinion - do as you see fit :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:24, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Number 4 and 5. It was written by Oscar Wilde. Lee Edelman mentions it in passing in Homographesis, an academic book of queer theory.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:28, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure Oscar counts for #5, but if you feel strongly about removing the tag, I'm not going to stop you. Put in some references if possible to ensure it won't go up for AfD. The only reason I put the tag on there is because I was reviewing articles that needed assessing, not anything specifically against the book, its author, or you :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:36, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oscar Wilde was a major author! Anyway I've added Lee Edelman's criticism with the page number.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Reg: Naresh Sonee page
Dear Satya, Kindly omit only sentences or paras which your goodeslf feel voilet wikipedia  codes as  poems LGTB etc or otherwise. I fully respect your watch on such issues. But is it fair to delete the full page? Meanwhile,I request you to give a final touch of editing and be generous & empathy my time or stressed consumed in doing all such research on my characters since years including all pain taking discussion with you. Alan Sun - --Dralansun (talk) 07:05, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Alan, Satyr only deleted the poem from the page. He didn't delete the entire page.  That happened because in the articles for deletion of Naresh Sonee, the vast majority of the editors who commented did not believe that notability of the subject was established.  This is a separate issue from the copyright violation for which Satyr deleted the poem. Aleta (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, did the page get deleted? The only part of it I did anything with was the poem.  The "Articles for Deletion" is what determined to delete the article. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Administrators unite
Wait a minute...you only just became an administrator? Why did I think you'd been one for years already? Bearcat (talk) 01:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL - Thanks, I think? :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Now I'm wowed. March 2004!?!? You've been an administrator *forever*!!! How old are you, anyway!?!? :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Afd
It appears that you are on quite a role adding Female wartime crossdressers to AfD. These may not be of note or interest to you, but there is a field of study in Women's Studies and Queer Studies devoted to this topic and these women. Kingturtle (talk) 16:33, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. It appears that you copy and pasted all those AfDs. They all point to Eliza Allen. Can you please fix them? Thanks. Kingturtle (talk) 16:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I totally understand - and applaud the topic! But these particular articles are all one or two sentences, make no claims of notability, and have few (if any) references.  I love most of the other 31 articles in the category, but these aren't notable.  IMO, anyway :) They're supposed to point to Eliza - it's a group nom - you got in before I had time to put it all together :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, the Afd page looks better now. I see now what you were doing, grouping them all together. cheers, Kingturtle (talk) 16:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you called my attention to these articles, even if you think they should be deleted. I enjoyed looking through them! :) <font color="#32127A">Aleta  <font color="#990066">(Sing) 19:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was surprised at how many articles we had in that cat! I hope at least some of them survive (with refs)... :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Krishna Raghavendra
Could you enlighten me a bit, please? You removed the copyvio tag on Krishna Raghavendra with the comment that it's not a significant copyvio. It seems to me that the last paragraph of the source was lifted word for word, with about three or four additional phrases added. I'm certainly not an expert on copyvio, but the text as it stands today is the same as the text from when it was speedied as a copyvio in 2006. Are you thinking that the additional phrases make it okay, even without a rewrite? (I'm not trying to argue for a reversal here, I'm trying to learn.) Thanks!--Fabrictramp (talk) 21:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, Fabrictramp! I'm not an expert on copyvio either, and I'm a brand new admin, so go easy on me :)  I've just taken a look at the historical copy that was deleted in October, and I think you're probably right - best to err on the side of caution.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem -- I've only been an admin for a couple of months, so I constantly ask questions. :)--Fabrictramp (talk) 22:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Orhaned/ needs expert attention
Hey Satyr, why in the LGBT box o' things-to-do do articles tagged as being orphaned get listed instead as needing expert attention? I've noticed this is consistent with several articles I've looked at. <font color="#32127A">Aleta  <font color="#990066">(Sing) 04:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Um .. because .. they .. I .. hmmm :)
 * Thanks - I've put them in the general Clean Up section. Good catch! :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Heehee, thanks! That makes more sense. <font color="#32127A">Aleta  <font color="#990066">(Sing)  06:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Your edit to Steven Howard
Hi there. Thanks for taking an interest in the above article. Just to clarify Category:LGBT politicians from the United States is not a sub-cat of Category:Gay politicians, or vice-versa. They are both sub-cats of Category:LGBT politicians but are not linked directly. I have therefore reinserted the category you removed. Cheers. -- Lincolnite (talk) 08:09, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, Lincolnite! Within the LGBT project, we try to put people in a) a profession and b) a place.  If they're in a cat that has both, so much the better.  So having Mr Howard in both categories is redundant.  Is there a particular reason for him to be in both? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:07, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

User talk page
You know that deleting the user talk page will make the history unavailable, right? Still want it deleted? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah - I should have read the above first. :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:59, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they've been deleted already. But thanks for your interest in helping out. :) <tt>—msikma (user, talk)</tt> 16:03, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: Speedy Deletion of TOME redirects
In regard to TOME (computer game) and TOME (game): to address your stated point, creation of redirects doesn't imply that such action was well-founded. If anything, in hindsight, I would view the former as inappropriate for a speedy (capitalization issue) rather than the latter. I'm not terribly bothered should both be rejected for speedy deletion, though. D. Brodale (talk) 21:03, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Would you take a look at the merge issue at Mississippi State Sports Hall of Fame and close it? It's been open since October 13. While only 2 people have commented, myself and an anon IP, they are both agreements with the merge. 2 months is long enough. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 03:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Merges don't need admin assistance - just merge the information into the new article and make the old one a redirect - easy as falling off a Christmas tree! :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedeh Speedeh
How is The Patch Bay not eligible for speedying? When I speedied it, it had one link that didn't work (which still doesn't work), and the two others point towards itself. I consider that chain notability; the only references the article has are the subject matter it is discussing. Doesn't really assert notability, in my opinion. Anyway, I was wondering if you could kindly tell me your reasoning, as I'm still a bit new to speedying and I might've missed something. I'll also drop a note on the talk page, explaining what the article needs; if the creator doesn't respond in a few days I'll AFD it. Cheers, Master of Puppets Care to share?  04:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, Master of Puppets! Well, I'm new at being an admin, so we're on the same page ;)
 * My main reason for not speedy deleting it was because new admins are told "If in doubt, Keep". And I was in doubt.
 * The subject of the article looks like an actual organization. There are only links to it's own site, true. And it doesn't quite assert notability, but almost?  And there are parts that read like advertising, but that's not a reason to delete.
 * So, since I wasn't quite sure, and since it *could* be notable and worthy of an article, it's not speedy-able. If I were you, I'd prod it.  If the creator (or someone else) doesn't add anything to the article that satisfies notability, it'll be deleted in five days. Or AfD it - a discussion with other editors might decide it's totally spam and delete it within a day :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I know you're a new admin, I voted for you :D.
 * And the reason I haven't put it up at AFD is because I don't want to WP:BITE the user; (s)he still is fairly new, after all. Also, they have made quite a few constructive edits, so I don't think they'll just vanish; I want to give them a chance. I did put a note on the talk page of that article to help them find problem areas, and also told them that I'd put it up for deletion if no action was taken for a few days. I hope that eases this. Sound like a good plan? Cheers, Master of Puppets Care to share?  05:06, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ROTFL! Well thanks for the !vote :)  I thought I'd seen that name before... Hope I continue to live up to the duties required of me :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh, most people have their hand on the emergency button when they see my name. You can figure out, haha. Not my fault, I just like music. <tt>:(</tt> Master of Puppets Care to share?  05:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Here comes Santa Claus
NORAD and the U.S. Air Force tracks Santa! As I write this, he's in India, making his way through the Himalayas! Yay! -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 15:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

USAA
Hello - you unprotected USAA on December 10, and it looks like the trolls are back. Can you re-protect the page? This user has the same M.O. as the previous users disrupting the article. --Matt (talk) 20:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, Matt! Semi-protecting the page will prevent anonymous IPs from editing the article.  I only see two IP edits since I've unprotected, so I assume you're referring to edits by a registered user. If there is a content dispute between users, there are many steps that should be taken before locking the article.  I've left a notice on one editor's page asking them to be WP:CIVIL, and I'll watch the article. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:04, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking into it. There's a long back story behind the USAA page (Requests for comment/Robertjkoenig, Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Robertjkoenig, ) and I thought semi-protection also blocked new editors. But thanks for the notes, and I appreciate your actions. Cheers! --Matt (talk) 21:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right that it also blocks new editors. They simply need to wait four days, I believe. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:17, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Atomic Scientists' Association
Your right. I later thought that it was too generic to redirect to British Atomic Scientists Association and that maybe I was over redirecting, but looking at it now, it should be a redirect unless a more generic page emerges.--Jorfer (talk) 18:02, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible project helper
I think Fromgermany is German and friendly to LGBT issues, they may be interested in the project and a resource for interpreting if nothing else. Benjiboi 19:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you invited them to join? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

"speedy not eligible"
Can you explain what you meant here? I'm not sure what eligibility you're referring to. --Cheeser1 (talk) 01:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, Cheeser1! Danny Stevens had a db-bio tag on it, which says "Speedy Delete under criteria A7, the article is a bout a person and does not indicate importance or significance."
 * However, the article has been around for a year and half and says Stevens is the lead singer of "The Audition (band)", which is notable. And in fact it was nominated for speedy back when it was created.
 * So given all that, the article is not eligible for speedy delete.
 * Hope that helps! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Why was Log Cabin Village deleted???
Hello! I understand that blatant advertising is not tolerated...but the intention of the Log Cabin Village page was not to advertise. We are a non-for-profit living history museum...and I was merely trying to flesh out the links on the "Fort Worth" wikipedia entry (you'll see Log Cabin Village linked under "Parks District") I did use info from our web site...but only because it's the easiest and most readable comprehensive history of the site we have (we've been around over 40 years).

How is Log Cabin Village's entry any different than other museums' entries? (i.e., , ) Please explain and I'll make the necessary adjustments.

Rena Lawrence, Museum Educator--Log Cabin Village Renalawrence (talk) 17:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, Rena!


 * Well, there are a couple of different issues at play here. First, the article was deleted mostly because the text (or a significant portion of it) came from the museum's website, logcabinvillage.org.  That means the site-owner has the copyright to the text.  All the content on Wikipedia, however, is released to the public domain - so any text added here has to already be public domain.


 * The second issue is Wikipedia's guideline on conflict of interest. As you are part of the museum, you have a conflict of interest when writing anything on the museum.  The guidelines say that, in the interest of a neutral point of view, you should not edit the article.


 * The third issue is advertising. I realize the museum is educational, but Wikipedia has a policy about advertising - basically that it's not allowed. :)


 * And the fourth issue is notability. As you might imagine, not every museum is encyclopedic.  I'm not able to judge whether or not Log Cabin Village is notable, but the article was questioned on that basis (as well as all of the above).  You might want to read more about Wikipedia's notability guidelines.


 * I hope that helps - feel free to write me back if you have any other questions. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Although I respectfully disagree with your points about advertising and notability (we're not trying to advertise and there is no question of our notability), I appreciate your time in answering my query. Thank you! Renalawrence (talk) 19:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedy
Hello, what tag should I use to propose deletions for those articles? I tried looking up those names but I wasn't able to come up with anything really substantial, which is why I put them up for deletion. -- vi5in [talk] 07:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, Vivin! I assume you're talking about Pallathu Raman‎ and M. K. Sanoo.  There are two other ways to try to delete an article - WP:PROD and WP:AFD.  Let me know if you have any questions about either process.  Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Bot frozen?
WikiProject_Paranormal/To_do_list_full appears to have ceased updating again. It's been frozen since the 18th. Cheers for adding the extra features, they make finding areas in need of work much much easier. - perfectblue (talk) 11:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, Perfectblue97. With the new format, the full list is no longer updated on each run.  Instead that page is a transclusion of all the sub-pages.  Those pages are updated on each run, so the info on the full list changes, but the page itself isn't edited.  Hope that makes sense :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Civility and content issues at Talk:Matt Sanchez
Hi Satyr, would you look at Talk:Matt Sanchez and see what you think of the discussions going on there? <font color="#32127A">Aleta <font color="#990066">(Sing)  17:10, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there any particular part of the page, Aleta? Matt has been negative, borderline uncivil, and sometimes just rude since he started "working on" the article.  I have a low tolerance for that kind of discussion, so I don't want to read through the whole page, but I'll be glad to look at a part of it :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Certainly understandable! This is all basically more of what you described.  The particular sections are "Non-LGBT?" and "Adult [...] 4.0" (although, as usual, it's all over the page). <font color="#32127A">Aleta  <font color="#990066">(Sing)  17:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * FYI. There is an RfC on Sanchez and his unique approach to consensus-building. Benjiboi 21:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Is that what it is? ;)  Anyway, thanks for visitingvthat, Satyr.  I'm going to try to stay away from it a little while now.  I'm not sure why I got caught up in it anyway. <font color="#32127A">Aleta  <font color="#990066">(Sing)  21:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, you know how it is with car wrecks. :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally I thinks it is endlessly fascinating, did you see the facial muscle exercising stuff? Hopefully one of his alleged escortees will go on record or he'll otherwise out himself or come to terms that just maybe being gay or bi isn't as evil as all that and just maybe he'll be our next George Michael singing about Freedom and the virtues of tearooms. Of course, that could also just be my coffee kicking in! Benjiboi 22:20, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Outdent. FYI, here's the RfC. Benjiboi 22:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Migvan
Many thanks for indescriminantly removing Migvan from the Wikipedia encyclopedia, without first putting up notice that more information might be required. Migvan is one of four Urban Kibbutzim in Israel - it is significant because Migvan, along with Tamuz (which is still on the Wikipedia site), Bet Israel and Reshit, are special examples of how the communal landscape of Israel is changing. An Urban kibbutz is a unique element of Israeli society, and a new reaction to the economic forces which caused the privatization of several kibbutzim. Please do not claim again, the right to remove valid contributions to Wikipedia made by others - there is a process - utilize it. Many thanks for your cooperation. StevenBirnam [User_Talk:StevenBirnam|StevenBirnam]] 13:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You should not be assuming that SatyrTN is acting in bad faith, indiscriminately removing your favorite articles that you made, or acting outside his "rights" (please refer to this policy). --Cheeser1 (talk) 18:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, StevenBirnam! Just wanted to drop you a note about the article Migvan that I deleted.  You're absolutely right - there are processes for deleting articles.  One of them is the Speedy Deletion process.  If, for example, an article is just spam, or is a copyright violation, or has no context, then it is eligible for "speedy deletion", which adds it to Category:Candidates for speedy deletion.  Any user can add one of the "speedy" banners to an article.  Then an admin comes along and cleans up afterwards, deleting articles that truly do fall into one of the speedy criteria.


 * In the case of Migvan, the article was started yesterday by User:SZAgassi. About half an hour later, User:Martijn Hoekstra added the speedy tag.  Four hours after that, I deleted it.  All of that happened per the process and procedures laid out in WP:SPEEDY.


 * The reason Martijn added the speedy tag is because the article contained two sentences and a link to the kibbutz's website. Nothing about the article asserted any sort of nobility or said why the kibbutz was important or should be contained in an encyclopedia. It said nothing about being one of four urban ones.


 * So next time something happens to an article to which you feel attached, please consider that whatever happened might have been done by someone trying to improve the work. Please do not assume that the editors involved want to hurt you or the article in any way.  We are all working toward the goal of a better encyclopedia.  Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 20:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, SatyrTN. Would like to know why you considered that the article had no redeeming value. I know User:SZAgassi, and talked with him - he thought, as I did, that since there is a list of kibbutzim, any and all kibbutzim should be enteed on the list, and once entered, a story should be told - neither of us are sure what redeeming value must be associated with the fact that an organization was established, and exists (or existed). In light of your comments, I have actually reentered the articla and created a Talk page, hopefully providing enough information for redemption of Migvan and the three other urban kibbutzim. BTW: no offence taken - it's just that there are so many individuals accessing pages, and making changes or erasing pages, with little or no consideration of the contribution being made by the author - in this case, User:SZAgassi did not put spam on the page, nor did he violate any copyright rule - he started to add information regarding an organization which, in the historical and social context, is extremely relevent to Israeli society and communal organizations. Thanks, again for your response, and have a great 2008[User_Talk:StevenBirnam|StevenBirnam]] 16:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No problam, StevenBirnam! Just a quick note before I start a response: You might want to read WP:SIG to tell you a little about your signature and how to put it on the page when you leave a comment (not on articles themselves, but on "talk" pages).


 * SZAgassi didn't put any spam or copyright violation, but when Martijn looked at the article, and when I came by later, there was basically no content on it at all except for the kibbutz's name. You have to agree that a page with nothing on it is pretty useless :) Note that I don't mean the subject was useless, just that the article didn't say anything useful.


 * So your real question is "What makes a subject notable, and how does one decide?" Lucky for you, there's a whole section of Wikipedia about notability: WP:N will take you there.


 * In a nutshell, a subject is considered notable if there are multiple reliable third-party sources about the subject. That means books or newspaper articles (or websites) that discuss the subject and why it's important.


 * Another issue you seem to have run into is speed - you (or rather SZAgassi) started the article, intending to come back and work on it some more. By the time you returned, it had been deleted.  You might consider starting the article within your own userspace where you can work on it at your leisure.  Others may still come along and edit, but probably not.  And they won't delete it unless it really is spam or a copyvio.  Take a look at WP:USER for more information.


 * Hope that helps - and feel free to leave me any questions and I'll try to help! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Wing chun magazine
Hiya, a quick heads up: I restored Wing chun magazine to User:Cripken08/Wing chun magazine after the user came to me asking why I deleted it the second time (since he recreated it with '.') Anyway, he said he could work on it to bring it up to WP:WEB so I figured, "why not?" :P Anyway, I figured I'd toss something your way in case you were interested. Cheers =) -- slakr \ talk / 07:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the note! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 07:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Female Wartime Crossdressers
Hi. I got your message, and I'll be happy to start putting in more sources for the articles. I also have no idea what the poster above you on my talk page meant. Maybe s/he was referring to the userbox that mentions that my Chinese Zodiac sign is a dog. Who knows? Asarelah (talk) 17:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC) P.S.- I noticed that you qualify for this service award. Congratuations! You can change it to a book, userbox, or ribbon if you like. Asarelah (talk) 17:29, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Request for undeletion
I appeal to you to review your deletion of Advanced Energy Research Organization. I do not believe your action is justified. __meco (talk) 23:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I responded positively to your post on my talk page. __meco (talk) 07:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry, I missed that
My apologies. Lobojo (talk) 02:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Jeffpw has been gracious enough to point out that I didn't revert myself, so I apologize for that too. I just assumed that you had done so already. Lobojo (talk) 18:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Tom and Jerry: War of the Whiskers
Hi. I note that you deleted the above article as patent nonsense and wonder if you perhaps overlooked the history of the article? It dates back to July of 2006, with nearly a hundred edits, and before today seems to have been a relatively competent (if not particularly exciting) article about a multiplatform videogame. I'm not sure if this was a mistake, but I thought I'd check and see. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 01:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry - didn't review the edit history - my bad. I've restored the article and reverted the vandalism.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I figured it was probably something like that. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Semiprotection: Maine South High School
Hello Satyr TN!

I noticed that some time ago you removed the semiprotection for Maine South High School. I do realize that it had been up for a long time. The page is starting to get hit with some pretty bad vandalism again. Is it possible to restore the semi-protection? Any help/suggestions on this matter would be welcome. Peace! LonelyBeacon (talk) 04:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, LonelyBeacon! I only see four or five vandalism edits, and all from one IP address.  If those continue, the IP should be blocked.  But that doesn't quite qualify for semi-protection.  If it were getting hit once or twice a day from IP addresses, perhaps... Anyway, if you'd like I'll watchlist the page.  Otherwise, just report that IP to WP:AIV if/when they strike again. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Roger that. I already have it watchlisted, but if you'd like to keep an eye on it that would be good.  One more thing:  that particular IP has been warned three times this month, but never more than what looks like a level 1 or level 2 warning.  Especially given that this vandalism is pretty overt, and also pretty vile, is there some way to make sure that at least a level three warning gets put up (I'd be happy to do it, but at the same time, I don't want to make it look like I'm  just making up instances of vandalism to force an opinion).  Again, thanks! LonelyBeacon (talk) 05:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll go ahead and watchlist it. Given the repeats (and I haven't read them to determine the vileness), I'd say the next one should definitely be a level three.  If you don't get to them first, I'll try :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I placed a level three warning based on the IP editor's demonstrated pattern of vandalism. I checked all five edits, they are all sophomoric sexual innuendo and attacks (I agree they are vile), and these are the only edits that anon has made. The next is a level 4 final warning. Also watchlisted. — Becksguy (talk) 19:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * PS - The level 3 warning was generous, as at least one of the earlier warnings should have been a level 3, making the last vandalism deserving of a level 4. — Becksguy (talk) 20:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Paul's Case
Please read the literary criticism and significance section. The subplot is about opera queendom. I've added a reference from Wayne Koestenbaum, there will be more to come from Eve Sedgwick and Eric Haralson I think. I tried to make the summary sound neutral but really it is a key gay pre-text used in Queer Theory...I also didn't tag A Gold Slipper, but Wayne suggests there is also a gay subplot there, as Mr Kann keeps the slipper.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If you can, try to indicate clearly someplace in the article something about LGBT? I read the whole article and my gaydar went off for Paul, but there was nothing that actually said "he's gay" or even "he explores the homosexual culture".  That's why I took off the banner - it seemed like a sub-plot that wasn't very significant.
 * Be a little careful about these - in early Queer Theory especially, there are plenty of works that have a gay sub-plot or gay undertones, but they probably don't fit in "gay literature" per se. Thanks for your work, by the way, on all the QT articles! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I could also add Wayne's suggestion that the term 'case' refers to psychiatry, thus pointing towards homosexuality, again. And he is described as a 'dandy' and as 'suave'. It's pre-Stonewall so Cather wouldn't say, 'he is a gay boy'. However, I think it is fair to think that all the signifiers in the text seem to point to a quondam gay kid. I'll see what Eric and Eve suggest. I didn't tag A Gold Slipper but I think Paul's Case might deserve the LGBT imprimatur.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't comment on whether or not Paul's a gay kid - I haven't read the story. My suggestion, though, is for you (or anyone working on the articles in question) to indicate explicitly in the article why it should have an LGBT cat, tag, and/or banner.  If you just slap the project's banner without any text in the article that indicates why, it looks like someone vandalized it. I'll leave the in-depth Queer Theory to people more knowledgeable :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * - opera queendom, and Cather's own lesbian subjectivity. I'll add more from Eve and Eric, but I must finish Wayne's book first.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW I recommend that you read the story. It's fun to read, and not very time-consuming as well.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Article talk page censoring
Hi - I noticed this redaction from the Talk:Anal sex page of Anal sex. I really don't like the idea of censoring talk pages, even if the comments are WP:OR (which the redacted content obviously is), and even though the subject matter may be controversial, unless it's a serious personal attack or copyvio. And especially since no reason was given. I was going to do an AGF rollback, but decided to check first, as it really isn't time critical since it isn't part of an ongoing discussion. Thoughts? — Becksguy (talk) 20:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I reverted. OR is not a reason to delete material from the talk page.  Copyvio, attack, or even "not contributing to the betterment of the article" can be deleted, but this is germaine to the article, even if OR.  -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that the content was redacted due to OR issues, I think someone didn't like the particular subject matter. I don't either, but if it's germane, so be it. Thanks. — Becksguy (talk) 04:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Newsletter bot decided I was inactive
I am now active again. Dfeuer (talk) 04:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Kewl! Glad to see you on the boards again :)  For future reference, the bot is looking at your user contributions to tell if you're active.  Since you went from May to the end of September without making any, that's when it made you inactive.  Anyway, welcome back! :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Baiting
Who baited who? Read the comment thread. Aatombomb (talk) 06:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: Avispa
It has serious POV issues. It only has a lead and it looks like an ad. I realize it doesn't qualify exactly for CSD but whether or not it's expanded (and that means a substantial rewrite, no?) right now it isn't very encyclopedic. What should be done? -- Menti  fisto  15:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It just seems to me that the whole article is wrong. The user who created it doesn't have a good reputation either and violates copyright frequently... in fact the image in that article is a copyvio... and besides that I think that the music label isn't even notable - no significant entries in google besides this article. -- Menti  fisto  17:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If it's not notable, AfD will decide. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)