User talk:Saucy/Archive 6




 * The following discussions are closed. Please do not modify them. Please leave messages on my current talk page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Edits
Hello, Sorry I forgot to state the reason I was removing those 2 sections. I was trying to clean up the page issues, as there are messages at the top of the page stating that the first 2 sections don't have references, etc. And that section wouldn't be able to have references since it is from over 30 years ago she was born, before there was internet.. so to remove that can also be a good idea, right? Will that help to remove the issues that are listed at the top? 182.253.154.92 (talk) 08:35, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Since you have a lot of experience, would you be able to help clean up the issues listed on the top of the page? 182.253.154.92 (talk) 08:37, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * After reviewing the article, the subject does not seem to be notable so I put it up for deletion. Still, feel free to do cleanup on it. Thanks for bringing this up Datbubblegumdoe[talk – contribs] 09:12, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2018
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Empty edit requests
Just a food for thought, leaving empty edit request on the talk page unnecessarily clutters up the page and then it get archived with no information worth saving. I remove the request with an edit summary "Empty request" and the notify the requester using this template Empty edit request. No way am I telling you how to do things, just wanted to point out an alternative. P.S. If you use Twinkle the template will automatically add the pagename where you removed the request from. Happy editing, -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 04:49, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 October 2018
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The Signpost: 28 October 2018
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The Signpost: 31 January 2019
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The Signpost: 28 February 2019
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Supremacism
The short description of racial ideology is too specific to account for a much broader behaviour. The group-based definition leaves out bullying and prejudice against specific individuals who have lower social status. Also, the word 'superior'. Superior at what exactly? Prejudiced individuals tend to think that their lives have more value or are more important than the targets of their prejudice. Soperthink (talk) 06:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 March 2019
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The Signpost: 30 April 2019
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Mixedish
I guess there's no need to take action since it has been several days. The offender did do this and I'm not sure how to restore your signature. I noticed the big red offensive username I decided it was unlikely that was acceptable. My theory was correct.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  19:41, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Asking for Page Protection
To request page protection, I've been told twice now to "place" my request at "Wikipedia:Requests for page protection,” but what does that mean to place it there. Wikipedia:Requests for page protection" is a general informational page. Does Wiki really want users changing its help pages? By the way, I have also been instructed to "place" the request in the code of the page itself (the one that's being vandalized). Which is it and can I get clear directions about how to request protection? Scottedwardcole (talk) 15:25, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


 * It's not a help page, only the top part is instructional. Place it in the "Current requests for increase in protection level" section (which I see you have already done). Saucy[talk – contribs] 19:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Saucy supporting vandalism?
Why did user "Saucy" revert a page back to its vandalized/incorrect state while another user was currently seeking protection from that particular form of vandalism? Why is Saucy placing outdated information on a user page (when already being made aware the information is inaccurate/outdated)? Scottedwardcole (talk) 15:35, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


 * I only reverted it once, when I was unaware of the conflict in that article. Saucy[talk – contribs] 19:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 May 2019
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Edit request
When you have a moment, would you mind helping with a lede request for Mark Stevens? Thanks! 98.207.1.47 (talk) 01:53, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Why?
?? Thanks. — howcheng  {chat} 15:57, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, I didn't see that you reverted yourself also. Carry on! — howcheng  {chat} 16:07, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was an accidental rollback Saucy[talk – contribs] 21:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Democratic debates–previously deleted
Hi, for some reason you weren't notified about this, but I've tagged your redirect "Democratic debates" for deletion-this title was discussed back in a previous election cycle and felt to be too vague to be a valid redirect. You can take a look at the discussion but I think this is still valid given the number of "Democrat" or "Democratic" parties worldwide, not to mention the number of topics that could be considered to be a "democratic debate". Blythwood (talk) 09:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

The June 2019 Signpost is out!
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Nice work on all the vandalism fighting
Keep it up. Reyk YO! 08:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks 👍 Saucy[talk – contribs] 09:02, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Saucy
Thanks saucy I just like fucking around and you ruined it Chinghanshangun (talk) 07:53, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 July 2019
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The Signpost: 30 August 2019
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The Signpost: 30 September 2019
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The Signpost: 31 October 2019
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The Signpost: 29 November 2019
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Team Trees logo
Hey, there. I noticed you uploaded the logo of Team Trees ([this). I'm just wondering how you were able to get that logo. The official logo is this, which I found on the website (https://teamtrees.org/images/logo-teamtrees-full.svg). I think it should replace yours, as this is the official logo. [[User:Melofors|Melo]] fors 01:33, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * A PNG version of the current logo was actually the original logo used when the page was first created. It seems to have come from their Twitter account. I then changed it to the logo used on their website since it was available in SVG format. But since this logo appeared small on the page, I decided to recreate the original logo in SVG format, which I did by laying paths from the logo on their website onto the PNG logo. Saucy[talk – contribs] 04:33, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. What are your opinions on the website logo I sent being used on the article? They are both official logos, so I’m conflicted as to which one should be used in the article. <b style="padding:1px;background:black;color:#0fb">Melo</b><b style="padding:1px;background:#0fb;color:black;">fors</b> 04:41, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Personally I prefer the current logo a little bit more, since it's bigger and easier to see, but I don't really care that much about which one is used. Saucy[talk – contribs] 04:47, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!
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Best wishes, CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 05:42, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 December 2019
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The Signpost: 27 January 2020
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Orphaned non-free image File:Dashlane logo.svg
Thanks for uploading File:Dashlane logo.svg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Matt Maeson


Hello, Saucy. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Matt Maeson".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Lapablo (talk) 10:32, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 March 2020
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MfD nomination of User:Saucy/sandbox/Kyle Kulinski
User:Saucy/sandbox/Kyle Kulinski, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Kyle Kulinski and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of User:Saucy/sandbox/Kyle Kulinski during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:52, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 March 2020
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Rvv
What do you mean by 'rvv' ? You reversed my edits why? --Saalberg af traam (talk) 08:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)


 * "Rvv" stands for "revert vandalism". I was also reverting someone else at the same time. The reason I reverted your edit as well is because it was not constructive: you switched the correct forms of a/an with the incorrect forms. Saucy[talk – contribs] 08:33, 13 April 2020 (UTC)


 * But that was not vandalism. It was a mistake. --Saalberg af traam (talk) 08:37, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2020
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Tech News: 2020-19
<section begin="technews-2020-W19"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Some wikis will be on read-only for a few minutes on 5 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.
 * Some wikis will be on read-only for a few minutes on 7 May. This will also affect CentralAuth. This can for example affect global renames, password changes, changing or confirming your email address and logging in to new wikis. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.

Changes later this week
 * You can get a notification when someone links to a page you created. You can soon turn these notifications off for individual pages.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 5 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 6 May. It will be on all wikis from 7 May (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W19"/> 16:59, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!
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From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-20
<section begin="technews-2020-W20"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Everyone can now import photos from Flickr to Commons with the UploadWizard. Before this only autopatrollers on Commons could import photos from Flickr.

Problems
 * Commons will be on read-only for a few minutes on 12 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.
 * Several wikis including Wikidata will be on read-only for a few minutes on 19 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. English Wikipedia will be on read-only for a few minutes on 21 May 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 12 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 13 May. It will be on all wikis from 14 May (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg JavaScript scripts and gadgets can no longer check multiple keys at once via  or  . You can use   or   to check one at a time instead.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W20"/> 20:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-21
<section begin="technews-2020-W21"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * If you forget your password you can ask for a new one to be sent to your email address. You need to know your email address or your username. You can choose that you need to enter both your email address and your username. This is a preference. This is to get fewer password reset emails someone else asked for. This is now available on all Wikimedia wikis.

Problems
 * There is a bug that creates problems for iPhone users with iOS 13 and Safari. If you use an iPhone to read or edit Wikipedia and see bugs on the mobile site you can report them.
 * Several wikis including Wikidata will be on read-only for a few minutes on 19 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. English Wikipedia will be on read-only for a few minutes on 21 May 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.

Changes later this week
 * The Wikipedia app for Android can let users add depicts on Commons. The beta version used computer-aided tagging. This was removed to get more specific depicts.
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Future changes
 * Graphs will be rendered in the reader's browser. This will use Javascript. Graphs will hopefully work better for everyone who uses Javascript. It will not work for users who don't use Javascript. This will not affect diagrams in image files.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Some CSS for the skins has been simplified. This affects ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,   and  . They will have to remove  . You will have to update your gadgets, scripts or user styles. This is so we can use HTML5.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Some CSS for the Vector skin has been changed. This affects ,  ,  ,   and  . They can no longer use  . You might need to update your gadgets, scripts or user styles. See how.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W21"/> 17:19, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-22
<section begin="technews-2020-W22"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * The visual editor will now work in the Modern skin. The changes that needed to happen for this to work could cause problems for some scripts or gadgets.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from May 26. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from May 27. It will be on all wikis from May 28 (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W22"/> 14:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 May 2020
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Tech News: 2020-23
<section begin="technews-2020-W23"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new beta version of the Wikimedia Commons app for Android. It has a new zoom function when you look at images. It can also suggest places when you upload geotagged photos.

Problems
 * There was a problem with the Commons database on 27 May. Commons could not be edited for eight minutes. Because of this problem the database was moved. This caused another short read-only time on 29 May.
 * The Vector skin had a problem where you couldn't add links to the article in other languages. You couldn't see the section if there were no links to other languages already. It also removed content translation links and links to language settings. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * You can get a notification when someone links to a page you created. You can turn these notifications off for individual pages. You can soon turn them off also in the notifications you get.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 2 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 3 June. It will be on all wikis from 4 June (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W23"/> 22:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-24
<section begin="technews-2020-W24"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Some articles have tables that can be sorted in different ways. For example a list of countries can be sorted alphabetically but you can click on the size column to sort them by size. If you clicked on the column a second time it would sort the countries from the bottom to the top instead. A third click will now take you back to the original sorting.
 * Self-closed tags now work as in the HTML5 specifications. This means you should stop using some of them.  is an example of a self-closed tag that won't work.   can be self-closed. Pages with tags that should not be self-closed have been listed in a tracking category since 2016. They will be listed in Special:LintErrors/self-closed-tag. This doesn't affect   or.
 * There is a banner called . It is for example used by the Wikivoyages, Wikimedia Russia and the Catalan, Basque, Galician and Turkish Wikipedias. It will now been seen by mobile visitors too. Before this it was only seen on desktop. The wikis should update instructions on   so that editors know to test and style for mobile too.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can now edit MassMessage descriptions through the API. This is useful for tools and gadgets.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 9 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 10 June. It will be on all wikis from 11 June (calendar).

Future changes
 * A temporary fix helped wikis make their main pages more mobile friendly. This was in 2012. It has not been recommended since 2017. It will not work after 13 July. Wikis should use TemplateStyles instead. 118 wikis need to fix this. You can read more and see if your wiki is affected.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W24"/> 21:12, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-25
<section begin="technews-2020-W25"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Toolforge hosts several tools created by the Wikimedia community like edit counters or enhanced editors. It is changing the domain from tools.wmflabs.org to toolforge.org. The routing scheme is moving from tools.wmflabs.org/toolname to toolname.toolforge.org. You can read the details. Tools that use OAuth will have to be updated to keep working. You can ask for help.

Problems
 * There is a Wikidata item link in the sidebar on many pages. This disappeared for a couple of days for users who have the Monobook skin. This was because of a bug. It has now been fixed.
 * Editing, logging in and logging out didn't work properly for a short period of time last week. It was soon fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 16 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 17 June. It will be on all wikis from 18 June (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Pywikibot is a Python library to automate work on wikis. It will not support Python 2 after the new version in July. Support for Python 3.4 and MediaWiki below 1.19 will also be dropped. You should migrate to Python 3. You can ask for help.
 * The selectors  and   will no longer work in the Vector skin. This can affect gadgets and user scripts.    should be replaced by  .   should be replaced by.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W25"/> 21:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-26
<section begin="technews-2020-W26"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * There are some new tools to make it easier for newcomers to start editing. They are available on some wikis. These wikis had a problem with the visual editor for a short period of time last week. This was because of a bug in the new tools. It was soon fixed.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Some user scripts and gadgets stopped working because of a change to CSS selectors.  should be replaced with   to fix this.

Changes later this week
 * The developers are working on a new interface to solve edit conflicts on talk pages. This will be released on 24 June. You can give feedback.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 23 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 24 June. It will be on all wikis from 25 June (calendar).

Future changes
 * A temporary fix helped wikis make their main pages more mobile friendly. This was in 2012. It has not been recommended since 2017. It will not work after 13 July. Wikis should use TemplateStyles instead. 91 wikis still need to fix this. You can read more and see if your wiki is affected.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W26"/> 18:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 June 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:53, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-27
<section begin="technews-2020-W27"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Everyone was logged out. This was because a few users saw the wikis as if they were logged in to someone else's account. The problem should be fixed now.
 * Some readers didn't see new edits to pages. If the page had been recently changed they saw an older version of the page instead. This only affected readers who were logged out. It lasted for ten days. It has been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 30 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 1 July. It will be on all wikis from 1 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg The Modern and Monobook skins use the ID  for the go button. This is   for Vector. To have the same ID for all skins it will change to   in Monobook and Modern too. This will affect gadgets and user scripts. It will happen on 23 July. They should be updated to use  . You can read more and see a list of affected scripts.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W27"/> 16:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-28
<section begin="technews-2020-W28"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * The Score extension has been disabled for now. This is because of a security issue. It will work again as soon as the security issue has been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 7 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 8 July. It will be on all wikis from 9 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * Abstract Wikipedia is a new Wikimedia project. It will collect language-independent information that can be easily read in different languages. It builds on Wikidata. The name is preliminary. You can read more.
 * The iOS Wikipedia app developers are thinking about new experimental tools. If you use an iPhone you can help them by answering the survey.
 * Some rules for user signatures will soon be enforced. Lint errors and invalid HTML will no longer be allowed in user signatures. Nested substitution will not be allowed. A link to your user page, user talk page or user contributions will be required. You can check if your signature works with the new rules. This is because the signatures can cause problems for tools or other text on the page.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W28"/> 20:18, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-29
<section begin="technews-2020-W29"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Users can thank others for their edits. Checkusers can now see user data related to that action. This can help identify sock puppets who harass others using thanks.

Problems
 * Everyone was logged out a couple of weeks ago to fix a security problem. The problem was not entirely fixed. Because of this everyone was logged out once again last week.

Changes later this week
 * Wikis that are not for one specific language can translate pages. Sometimes parts of translations are outdated or missing. Outdated translations are marked with a pink background . Missing translations will also be marked in the future. This markup can sometimes break things. It can soon be disabled by using  on the source page.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 14 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 15 July. It will be on all wikis from 16 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Wikimedia code review plans to use GitLab. It would be hosted on Wikimedia servers.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W29"/> 16:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-30
<section begin="technews-2020-W30"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * A temporary fix helped wikis make their main pages more mobile friendly. This was in 2012. It has not been recommended since 2017. The mobile main page special casing stopped working 14 July. 60 wikis now have main pages that don't work well on mobile. You can see which ones, how to fix it and how to get help in Phabricator. This is the same problem that was reported in Tech News 2020/24 and 2020/26.

Problems
 * There is a problem with the interlanguage links. The interlanguage links are the links that help you find a specific page in a different language. The sorting is broken. The developers are working on a solution.
 * Some users keep getting the notifications for the same event. Some of these are old events.
 * Some users have trouble logging in. This is probably a browser cookie problem. The developers are working on understanding the problem. If you have trouble logging in you can see the details on Phabricator.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 21 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 22 July. It will be on all wikis from 23 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * There is a  link. This will disappear. That is because web browsers today can create a printable version or show how it will look in print anyway.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W30"/> 19:11, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-31
<section begin="technews-2020-W31"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The Starter kit is now available for wiki communities. This page lists technical resources, tools, and recommendations. These are essential to operate a wiki project. This is mostly useful for smaller wikis where the community has limited experience with this.
 * The first features of the Desktop Improvements project are available for logged-in users on all wikis. In order to use them, uncheck ' in your local or global preferences in section '. More improvements are planned. Feedback is welcome.
 * Octicons-tools.svg On multiple wikis, a UTCLiveClock gadget is available. For wikis that import the gadget directly from mediawiki.org, end users can now choose a different timezone to show instead of UTC.

Problems
 * Octicons-tools.svg The deployment train for MediaWiki has been blocked this week.
 * Translation Notification Bot was sending the same message multiple times to every translator. This has been fixed.
 * Some users were receiving the same notification multiple times. This has been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from July 28. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from July 29. It will be on all wikis from JUly 30 (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W31"/> 13:53, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 2 August 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:25, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-32
<section begin="technews-2020-W32"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * All queries to the Wikidata Query Service failed between 17:50 and 17:59 UTC on Thursday 23 July. Some queries failed during a longer period.
 * Interlanguage links were ordered incorrectly for the past few weeks. This problem was also mentioned in Tech News two weeks ago. The problem is now fixed.
 * There is a problem with the global preferences for the "" option. Developers are working on fixing it.
 * A bug in the Wikibase extension had disabled the "move" and "create" types of protection in the main (Gallery) namespace on Wikimedia Commons. New protections could not be added, and existing protections were not enforced, allowing some page moves and page creations that should not have been possible. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * The video player will change to be simpler and more modern. This week, the current beta feature will become the video player for everyone on most non-Wikipedia wikis. The old player will be removed.
 * Users'  and   pages will now also be loaded on the mobile site. You can read documentation for how to avoid applying styles to the mobile skin.
 * Octicons-tools.svg In the MonoBook skin, the  identifier is now  . This may affect CSS and JS gadgets. Migration instructions can be found in T255953. This was previously mentioned in issue 27.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Bot operators can use Pywikibot to regularly archive discussions. The behavior when the bot uses  to prevent large archives was changed.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from August 4. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from August 5. It will be on all wikis from August 6 (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W32"/> 15:43, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-33
<section begin="technews-2020-W33"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * FileImporter and FileExporter became standard features on all Wikis during the first week of August. They help you transfer files from local wikis to Wikimedia Commons with the original file information and history intact.

Problems
 * The mobile skin displays a message at the bottom of the page about who edited last. This message showed raw wikitext. This has now been fixed. Some messages in Structured Discussions and content translation may still appear as raw wikitext. Developers are working on it.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from August 11. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from August 12. It will be on all wikis from August 13 (calendar).

Future changes
 * All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on September 1. This is planned between 13:30 and 15:30 UTC. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W33"/> 16:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-34
<section begin="technews-2020-W34"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * If you revert an edit using the undo link your edit is marked with an  tag. This will now only happen if you don't change anything in the edit window before publishing the undo. This is to keep users from marking edits as undos when they actually do something else.
 * The new OOUI version will not work with Internet Explorer 8. This means the wikis will look strange and not work well in Internet Explorer 8. This was reported in Tech/News/2020/17. This is because keeping the wikis working with very old browsers creates other problems.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 18 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 19 August. It will be on all wikis from 20 August (calendar).

Future changes
 * All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on September 1. This is planned between 13:30 and 15:30 UTC. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis next week. This is a reminder. You can help by translating the announcement message.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W34"/> 20:41, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-35
<section begin="technews-2020-W35"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 25 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 26 August. It will be on all wikis from 27 August (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W35"/> 17:59, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:33, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-36
<section begin="technews-2020-W36"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * This is a reminder. All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on September 1. This is planned between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC. Please check on the details on the announcement message.

Changes later this week
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W36"/> 20:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-37
<section begin="technews-2020-W37"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * Normally pages can be moved to a title that has no existing page yet or to a page that has only one revision, which is a redirect to the page to be moved. A new user right allows editors to move pages over one-revision pages that redirect to anywhere.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 8 September. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 9 September. It will be on all wikis from 10 September (calendar).
 * Octicons-tools.svg All MediaWiki API modules will now use  instead of  . This was inconsistent before.

Future changes
 * The Wikipedia Android app team might work on patrolling tools in the future. You can let them know what tools would be useful for you or for less experienced patrollers. See the page on mediawiki.org.
 * OTRS will be updated to a new version. This will probably take around two days. OTRS agents will not have access to the system during these days. Emails that come in during the update will be delivered when the update is done. The plan is to start around 08:00 UTC on 14 September. This could change.
 * The Wikipedia Android app will send push notifications if users want them. This could help you see for example when someone wrote on your talk page or your edit was reverted. This will need Google Play Services to work. It will also be possible to get the app without Google Play Services but push notifications will not work. Google Play Services is also used to make the app work for Android 4.4 users.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Wikimedia code review could move to GitLab. It would be hosted on Wikimedia servers. You can take part in the consultation.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Dropdown menus in the Vector skin use a  class. This will not work in the future. Scripts can use   instead.   and   will also not work. Some scripts need to be updated. You can read more in Phabricator.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W37"/> 15:59, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-38
<section begin="technews-2020-W38"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * The Wikipedia apps briefly showed pages without CSS last week. This meant they looked wrong. It was quickly fixed but cached pages without CSS were shown for a few hours.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 15 September. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 16 September. It will be on all wikis from 17 September (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W38"/> 16:18, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-39
<section begin="technews-2020-W39"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new tag for reverted edits. For example you can see it in the recent changes feed or in the article history. It is added to edits when they have been undone, rollbacked or manually reverted to an older version of the page.

Changes later this week
 * The number of times you can do something in a period of time on wiki is limited. This could be the number of edits per minute or the number of users you email in a day. Some users are not affected by all limits because of their user rights. They could soon see the limit even if it does not affect them.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 22 September. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 23 September. It will be on all wikis from 24 September (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W39"/> 21:26, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 September 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:48, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 September 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-40
<section begin="technews-2020-W40"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes Problems
 * Admins can now see links to diffs of deleted revisions on Special:AbuseLog. This uses the interface of Special:Undelete.
 * Editors are automatically added to some user groups. For example editors are added to autoconfirmed users when they have edited enough times and long enough. Abuse filters can hinder users from automatically getting user rights for a period of time. They can also remove rights user have. Wikis can now ask to change how long this period of time is for their wiki in Phabricator. It is currently five days.
 * Last year some abuse filters stopped working because of a new change. If they tried to use variables that were unavailable for that action they would fail. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 29 September. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 30 September. It will be on all wikis from 1 October (calendar).

Future changes
 * You can't see the language links to other language versions from the talk page or history page. They are also not shown when you edit an article. This could change. It is not decided if for example the history page should link to another history page or to the article. You can take part in the discussion in Phabricator.
 * The link colours could change. This is to make the difference between links and other text more clear. You can read more in Phabricator.
 * In your preferences you can choose to get different notifications on the web or by email. You will see  as one of the alternatives later this week. This is because the Android and iOS Wikipedia apps will use push notifications for those who want them. You can see the preferences on the test wiki. The goal is to have push notifications on Android in October and on iOS in early 2021.
 * You can soon put pages on your watchlist for a limited time. This could be useful if you want to watch something for a shorter time but don't want it on your watchlist forever. It now works on mediawiki.org and will come to more wikis later. You can read more and see when it will come to other wikis.
 * You can see what Wikimedians think are the best new technical tools this year. You can also nominate them.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W40"/> 21:23, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-41
<section begin="technews-2020-W41"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new tool where you can see which home wiki users have in discussions on Meta. This can help show which communities are not part of the discussion on wikis where we make decisions that affect many other wikis.
 * You can now thank users for file uploads or for changing the language of a page.

Problems
 * There were many errors with the new MediaWiki version last week. The new version was rolled back. Updates that should have happened last week are late.
 * Everyone was logged out. This was because a user reported being logged in to someone else's account. The problem should be fixed now.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Many pages have JavaScript errors. You can read more and now see a list of user scripts with errors.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 6 October. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 7 October. It will be on all wikis from 8 October (calendar).
 * Letters immediately after a link are shown as part of the link. For example the entire word in  is linked. On Arabic wikis this works at both the start and end of a word. Previously on Arabic wikis numbers and other non-letter Unicode characters were shown as part of the link at the start of a word but not at the end. Now only Latin and Arabic letters will extend links on Arabic wikis.

Future changes
 * You will be able to read but not to edit the wikis for up to an hour on 27 October around 14:00 (UTC). It will probably be shorter than an hour.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W41"/> 16:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Agnostic Atheism
Saucy, how is the Agnostic Atheism piece not encyclopedic at all? First off the term "Agnostic Atheism" does not even appear in the Britannica Encyclopedia. Secondly, I quoted from the Stanford Encyclopedia.

So tell me how it is not encyclopedic. I also wonder if you are doing the reverting for Hunter, since he has already reverted it twice, and now is having others do it for him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madjess (talk • contribs) 04:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * What I meant by unencyclopedic is that it did not use a neutral, encyclopedic writing style or tone. It reads more like an argumentative essay than a Wikipedia article.


 * Furthermore, the entire point you were trying to make is not encyclopedic in general. Wikipedia is descriptivist, not prescriptivist. In other words, the point of Wikipedia is to describe how things are, not how they should be. Many people in the real world identify as agnostic atheist, you shouldn't argue that it doesn't actually exist just because it doesn't make sense. Many things don't make sense yet continue to exist.


 * If you really want to make such a fundamental change to the article, you should get a consensus on its talk page first. Saucy[talk – contribs] 04:47, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Agnostic Atheism
Saucy, that is your opinion only. I have cited professors from Stanford University, Harvard University, and a book and URL's from Oxford.

Before I started editing, I found out that there were many problems with this piece. Please refer to the talk page on "Agnostic Atheism."


 * Isn't that just those professors' opinions too? A large number of people (those who identify as agnostic atheist) clearly don't agree with their opinions. Saucy[talk – contribs] 06:33, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Also, Wikinights left a message on your talk page a few hours ago and I would like to see your response Saucy[talk – contribs] 06:48, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Agnostic Atheism
Saucy, if you research the piece thoroughly and check my sources, you will find quotes from Professors such as Paul Draper, Professor of Philosophy/Religious studies at Purdue University, who then quotes another person. And if you click on that source, you will find other sources.

Agnostic Atheism
Saucy, I am finished here. Not one University that I have come across uses "Agnostic Atheism" as a valid term. And as far as the Professors opinions, if you would check their sources there is a ton. Plus in one quote the Professor, quoted from another author, (which was included by the quote from the Professor). In addition nearly every single one of the sources are recent. As opposed to the original version of this article which has archaic sources, some not reliable, one done by an Orator, (that is the only thing he is known as), etc.

If you and Wikipedia thinks it's okay to define a term that is not accepted in any scholarly circle, do so. It doesn't matter to me. This only started out as to make a point, but then I got further involved.

There will not be a consensus on this from people who are not Scholars.

Wikipedia is not an accepted source in any scholarly circles. It is not accepted in Middle School, nor High School nor College, nor any research paper, or any dissertation, nor actually anywhere except by people on social media, who think Wikipedia is a better source, than Britannica,  the Oxford Press,  The Stanford Encyclopedia, Harvard University, etc. I never use it as a source. I hadn't edited a Wikipedia in so long, like 15 years ago, I don't even think they show in my history, but my edits still exist today under the subject of "Jean Calas" and the "Qurasyh."

By the way, what do you think those authors most of which have little education that are in the original piece are doing? They are giving their opinion, without the knowledge that a Professor has that has a PhD.

I also did check what Almy stated, "You did not research the Oxford definition or reason out Dawkin's claim that an atheist must be certain that God does not exist. However, you did combine the two source's claims."

First off, you can not research a primary source.: Secondly, I did not use Dawkin's claim in the article, I only used it as one example from the talk page on the term "Agnostic Atheism". Thirdly, Almy stated and I quote: "otherwise your edit was otherwise fine." Since Almy sent me that message, I corrected a number of things.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Madjess (talk • contribs) 09:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

So you who can't even reveal your real name, your credentials, because obviously you have something to hide, (like you are not qualified to do such work), and others like you can have Wikipedia all you like. Since I am a published Author, Scholarly Researcher, and my work has appeared in many places, I've worked as a reporter for the Dallas Morning News, I have been published in Nationwide magazines, and more recently, I am on the Board of Directors for "The Center For Pluralism" in Washington, D.C., where my work gets widely distributed, even all the way to the President, who has used my work in his State of the Union Address, etc.

One last thing before I go, there is a consensus among Universities that the term "Agnostic Atheism" is contradictory, and is taught as such. Just because people here who use pen names, (oh and by the way, if you check my user page, I updated, last week, giving all of my personal information, which you obviously are afraid to do), but I guess people with their PhD's and Post Doctorates, don't count.

I can only say adios, and I will be publishing a piece on this experience, I guess I will have to use you pen name, and state it as such.

I wonder if Encyclopedia Britannica, or any other actual credible Encyclopedia, University, etc. would allow someone to publish their work using a pen name.

Sayonara! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madjess (talk • contribs) 09:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Saucy, as I write an article on this experience, I wanted to share some more thoughts. You claim that a number of users have complained, yet you don't list the source of this information.

Just because there are some people who want to call themselves "Agnostic Atheists" today, does not mean it is an acceptable term, which it is not in any scholarly circle. By the way I am wondering what Adrian J Hunter's credentials are. Are you saying that his credentials at least equal or go beyond the credentials of Professor Paul Draper of Perdue University, which are the following:

"CURRICULUM VITAE Paul Draper 2019

EDUCATION Degrees in Philosophy, University of California, Irvine: Ph.D. 1985, M.A. 1982, and B.A. 1979.

ACADEMIC APPOINTMENTS Purdue University 2006- Professor of Philosophy. 2012-18 Director of Graduate Admissions, Department of Philosophy

Florida International University 2003-06 Director, M.A. in Liberal Studies Program. 2001-06 Professor of Philosophy. 2001-05 Chair, Department of Philosophy. 1997-99 Interim Associate Director, B.A. in Liberal Studies Program 1992-2001 Associate Professor of Philosophy. 1987-92 Assistant Professor of Philosophy. Other Universities 2011-12 Skeptical Theism Fellow, University of Notre Dame. 2010-11 Alvin Plantinga Fellow, University of Notre Dame. 1986-87 Lecturer in Philosophy, University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh. 1985-86 Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Notre Dame.

AREAS OF SPECIALIZATION Philosophy of religion and philosophy of science.

BOARD MEMBERSHIPS Editorial Board, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Editorial Board, Religious Studies. Board of Editorial Consultants, Faith and Philosophy. Editorial Advisory Board, Claremont Journal of Religion. Editorial Board, Science, Religion, and Culture.

AWARDS, FELLOWSHIPS, GRANTS, AND HONORS • Pantheism and Panentheism Project Summer Stipend, 2018. • Skeptical Theism Fellowship, Center for Philosophy of Religion, UND, 2011-2012. • Alvin Plantinga Fellowship, Center for Philosophy of Religion, UND, 2010-2011. • Templeton/American Scientific Affiliation Lecture Series Grant, 2002-2003. • Matriculation Merit Salary Award, Florida International University, 2001. • Excellence in Advising Award, Florida International University, 2000. • Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences (CTNS) Science and Religion Course Award with Carl Craver) for “Science and the Soul,” 2000. • Teaching Incentive Program Salary Award, Florida International University, 1994. • Summer Research Award, Florida International University, 1994. • Summer Research Award, Florida International University, 1991. • Outstanding Achievement and Performance Award, FIU, 1990. • Postdoctoral Research Fellowship, Center for Philosophy of Religion, UND, 1985-86. • U. C. Regents Dissertation Fellowship, 1985. • U. C. Regents Fellowship, 1979-80. • Graduation with Honors (Summa cum Laude), 1979. Phi Beta Kappa (elected in third year), 1978."

In addition Professor Paul Draper, has published and or edited approximately fifty pieces, is continually doing research, but his work is not good enough for Wikipedia? Okay then, it just further confirms where Wikipedia stands in regards to scholarly research.--Madjess (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * You take me out of context. It was me, not Almy. I did not say "otherwise your edit was otherwise fine." The full context is: "though I would have fixed the errors, not reverted, if your edit was otherwise fine," implying that I did not think your edit was otherwise fine.


 * Many of our most experienced editors and administrators are anonymous. Wikipedia does not give experts a pedestal in discussions, see About: "Wikipedia is written largely by amateurs. Those with expert credentials are given no additional weight." Wikinights (talk) 18:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , And that is the problem with Wikipedia, it is written by amateurs who make up their own definitions upon weak research and archaic information, (not in all cases, but definitely this one), because they want to use a term which is no longer acceptable. Which actually deceives the public who use Wikipedia as a source, (which I do not). And no Scholar does either. (Oh and by the way, since you admit you are an amateur, I don't appreciate you or Almy, reverting my edits, when you just admitted you're amateurs, and if Wikipedia does not give any weight to people who have actually worked as editors, (which I have edited a number of books), it just proves that this encyclopedia, is really a piece of junk. And Wikipedia allows misinformation to be used by the general public, because they don't know that it is done by amateurs. In fact when I started telling people on social media this experience and giving them links, they were shocked, they didn't even know all of this which we are currently discussing.--Madjess (talk) 19:05, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

In addition, unless you have taken Journalism, Creative Writing, or any variation of, you are not qualified to make edits. I personally take my work seriously, and I will not put something out to the public that I have no education in. This first book is the 'bible' for all writers, "Shrunk and White:The Elements of Style." It is a quick reference book for all writers. Now for further studies on writing and grammar, this book is more of a textbook and goes into much further detail on proper writing and grammar. --Madjess (talk) 19:54, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * If you think Wikipedia is garbage, then don't use it. No one is forcing you to. But Wikipedia being freely editable by anyone is part of the entire point of Wikipedia. "You are not qualified to make edits" is nonsense on here. I know you think that's a bad thing, and that's fine, that's your own personal opinion. But in my opinion, Wikipedia being freely editable by anyone is actually one of its strengths. If you see something that can be improved, you can just fix it yourself instead of hoping someone else eventually gets around to it. Wikipedia is never going to be completely 100% accurate. It's not some repository for scholarly articles.


 * Wikipedia is community-driven. As you said, "there will not be a consensus on this from people who are not Scholars." If you know other editors won't agree with what you're doing, then don't do it. Saucy[talk – contribs] 01:44, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Saucy, I am not talking about other editors, agreeing with what I am doing. That is irrelevant, unless they are open minded enough to actually fully research what I put out before making any edits. I don't use Wikipedia as a source and never have. I made two initial edits back in 2012, one still appears and one does not, and then I left. If anyone can go in and edit someone else's work without doing in depth research on their edits and take the time to check their sources, then they should not be editing. If they do such in depth research and edit, then the two can discuss. Which I actually started to do with Adrian J Hunter, pointing out the problems with this page and from the page I quote: "This article includes a list of general references, but it remains largely unverified because it lacks sufficient corresponding inline citations. Please help to improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (February 2017) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)."

So people want to complain when this piece has serious deficiencies which I wasted a week trying to fix, and it was not going to be an overnight fix, but the editor Adrian J Hunter would obviously not work with me even though I reached out to him and told him I would work with him on this piece. And continue to make further changes, so the phrase I quoted would no longer exist.

I don't know if I told you previously, but it was not my intent to get this involved, but fell into a trap initially, (due to circumstances I won't get into) and then you tell me that it's a bunch of amateurs that objected who want to obviously use this term, even though I have not found one Philosophy Class at a University, (which I have checked several), and no one offers a Philosophy Course on "Agnostic Atheism." Nor is it accepted within any course I checked at the following University's (which of course took further in depth research), Harvard University, The University of Michigan, and Stanford University, (In addition to checking all the other scholarly work I have already listed).

This is as bad if not worse than social media, a user, (don't recall the pen name), states that I did not research the definition in the Oxford Dictionary. Are you kidding me! The Oxford Dictionary is a primary source, it is not a secondary source. It makes me wonder if some of the people here have actually ever done real research. Because if they had, it would not be published by anyone, and if done in college the way the users I have come across this week do things, would be lucky to get a D at best on their research paper.

So by Adrian J Hunter starting out by saying it is a "Philosophical Position" and his first paragraph has no citation, is just an opinion on his part. Because I have not found it in any Philosophy Book, and I researched all week, (now that doesn't mean it's not somewhere, it just means I haven't found it yet).

Anyway, that is correct I don't use Wikipedia, because it is not accepted in any scholarly circle, it is not accepted at any level of education or school that I know of as a properly cited source, (and I know plenty of educators), so all you amateur editors have done is continue to fuel false narratives across social media, because people are ignorant enough to use Wikipedia. Now if you want further confirmation of this you can contact either Professor Draper at Purdue University or Professor Selim Berker at The University of Harvard. Professor Paul Draper's contact information: Paul Draper, and Professor Selim Berker's contact information:  --Madjess (talk) 03:13, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , I'm sorry for redacting your post above, but posting email addresses like that may lead to them being harvested by webcrawling spambots.
 * I'm not sure why you keep claiming or insinuating that I'm the article's original author, that I had other editors do my bidding, or that I was unwilling to work with you. None of those things are true.
 * You may be interested in Expert editors. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 23:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , actually I believe you deleted them because you know this article is for shit, and you nor anyone else wanted to contact either of them, because their email addresses are already posted publicly. If you don't even realize this, it makes me wonder. So contact these Professors whose careers and credentials are beyond reproach. Then after you do, post here what they stated, verbatim.--Madjess (talk) 20:11, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

I also don't understand why the following message within the article is not taken seriously by some users, (just because a very small number object to improving the article based on current teachings, does not mean that the term is properly used. "This article includes a list of general references, but it remains largely unverified because it lacks sufficient corresponding inline citations. Please help to improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (February 2017) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)" --Madjess (talk) 20:11, 10 October 2020 (UTC)--Madjess (talk) 20:11, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , in addition, referring me to Adrian J. Hunter's talk page, does not impress me at all. If I would have been editing constantly since 2012 when I first set up my account, I would have went beyond whatever awards he has gotten from Wikipedia, because my works have been published, and cited. Whereas like I stated Wikipedia is not an accepted source for any research paper or dissertation, or publication, or at any educational level in any school or University.

Why do you think I stopped editing? I have better things to do with my time, than edit things that will not be recognized as scholarly research anywhere. Which I have to get back to.--Madjess (talk) 02:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , I was offended when you insulted my and other users' intelligence, level of education, etc. along with disparaging Wikipedia itself. Please don't insult us or Wikipedia itself while we debate (Civility). Since both sides are repeating the same points and no real progress has been made, I will state what will convince me. If you demonstrate that your contributions do not violate the WP:SYNTH policy, your edits will be accepted. You may disagree with our rules, but rules are rules. See Village pump if you want to change our policies. Wikinights (talk) 03:33, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-42
<section begin="technews-2020-W42"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Because of the problems with the MediaWiki version two weeks ago last week's updates are also late.

Changes later this week
 * Live previews didn't show the templates used in the preview if you just edited a section. This has now been fixed. You can also test CSS and JavaScript pages even if you have the live preview enabled. Previously this didn't work well.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 13 October. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 14 October. It will be on all wikis from 15 October (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg A new stable version of Pywikibot is coming soon.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W42"/> 15:23, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-43
<section begin="technews-2020-W43"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * You will be able to read but not to edit the wikis for up to an hour on around 14:00 (UTC). It will probably be shorter than an hour.
 * Octicons-tools.svg In the AbuseFilter extension, the  function will be updated soon so that it does not remove the "space" character. Wikis are advised to wrap all the uses of   with   wherever necessary to keep filters' behavior unchanged. You can use the search function on Special:AbuseFilter to locate its usage.
 * Some gadgets and user-scripts use the HTML div with the ID . This div will be removed soon. Maintainers should replace these uses with either   or  . A list of affected scripts is at the top of T265373.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W43"/> 16:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-44
<section begin="technews-2020-W44"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * You will be able to read but not to edit the wikis for up to an hour on October 27 around 14:00 (UTC). It will probably be shorter than an hour.
 * Last week, links to "diffs" from mobile watchlists and recentchanges were linking to page-revisions instead of diffs. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Future changes
 * Since the introduction of the interface administrators user group in 2018, administrators couldn’t view the deleted history of CSS/JS pages. Now they can.
 * There was a problem with the Change Tags. The software would apply the "" tag to any page actions such as page-protection changes if they came directly after a reverted edit. This has now been fixed for new edits.
 * The Reply tool will be offered as an opt-in Beta Feature on most Wikipedias in November. Another announcement will be made once the date is finalized.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W44"/> 17:37, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 November 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-45
<section begin="technews-2020-W45"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * You can no longer read Wikimedia wikis if your browser uses very old TLS. This is because it is a security problem for everyone. It could lead to downgrade attacks. Since October 29, 2020, users who use old TLS versions will not be able to connect to Wikimedia projects. A list of browser recommendations is available. All modern operating systems and browsers are always able to reach Wikimedia projects.
 * Octicons-tools.svg There is a new automatic tracking category available: Pages with non-numeric formatnum arguments. It collects pages which use the  parser function with invalid (non-numeric) input, e.g.  . Note that   is also invalid input: as described in the documentation, the argument should be unformatted so that it can be reliably and correctly localised. The tracking category will help identify problematic usage and double-formatting. The new tracking category's name can be translated at translatewiki.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from November 3. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from November 4. It will be on all wikis from November 5 (calendar).
 * Administrators and stewards will be able to use a special page (Special:CreateLocalAccount) to force local account creation for a global account. This is useful when account creation is blocked for that user (by a block or a filter).
 * The Reply tool will be offered as an opt-in Beta Feature on most Wikipedias on November 4. This change excludes the English, Russian, and German-language Wikipedias, plus a few smaller Wikipedias with special circumstances. You can read the help page and the troubleshooting guide for more information.

Future changes
 * A discussion has been restarted about using a Unicode minus sign (− U+2212) in the output of  when it is given a negative argument.
 * In the future IP addresses of unregistered users will not be shown for everyone. They will get an alias instead. There will be a new user right or an opt-in function for more vandal fighters to see the IPs of unregistered users. There would be some criteria for who gets the user right or opt-in. There will also be other new tools to help handle vandalism. This is early in the process and the developers are still collecting information from the communities before they suggest solutions.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W45"/> 16:08, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-46
<section begin="technews-2020-W46"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Future changes
 * You can see reference previews. This shows a preview of the footnote when you hover over it. This has been a beta feature. It will move out of beta and be enabled by default. There will be an option not to use it. The developers are looking for small or medium-sized wikis to be the first ones. You can let them know if your wiki is interested.
 * From November 16 the categories will not be sorted in order for a short time. This is because the developers are upgrading to a new version of the internationalisation library. They will use a script to fix the existing categories. This can take a few hours or a few days depending on how big the wiki is. You can read more.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W46"/> 15:49, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussions above are closed. Please do not modify them. Please leave messages on my current talk page. No further edits should be made to this page.