User talk:Scepia/video games/Wii/infobox/sandbox

Disputed Talk
 Disputed Talk   The Following sections are disputed: Flags When adding your opinions, please use the bold headers "current", "horizontal icons", "vertical icons", "horizontal icons (comnpact)", or "all text", if making a point. Please follow this up as to why you chose your specific choice. If you have a comment or question, use the bold terms "comment" and "question" where applicable. Be sure to define which issue you are referring to.

votes

 * All Icons, with my current edit, it may not be super-effective at size, but it conveys the information neatly and orderly, giving it a good feel, and ultimately, a good vibe. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 06:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * horizontal icons, it has clear divisions and one can easily tell that the flags are separate - not one big choppy mass as with vertical icons. It is already one line less than vertical icons, and it will largely stay that way as new countries are added to the release schedule. Vertical icons will get lengthier and lengthier as more countries are added. Vertical icons is really an inefficient use of space. Scepia 08:32, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Current If you want to use something other than the US flag, then use that ugly NAFTA flag and find somthing similar for SA. TJ Spyke 06:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: That flag, for thousands of workers, represents Satan. I wouldn't use it. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 06:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gonna have to agree on that, this is nothing worldly accepted. While we're at it, we might as well just make flags to represent NA and SA ourselves. Duhman0009 14:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Vertical Icons for me as well As much as I love the look of the all centered Horizontal icon look, we'd probably have the first Wiki page with those, which could lead into an edit war in the future. Duhman0009 06:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * All Icons. That format seems easy to look at and more accurate than the current one. I wonder though, if no agreement can be reached, why not just put something like "See 'Release date and price' table below"? - Rohein 06:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Horizontal Icons. I like the horizontal format. --Thaddius 17:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * NAFTA flag. It's the closest thing that NA has to a unified flag. I know you personally don't like it, Shanesan, but that's just your POV. It's at least as valid as the EU flag is for Europe, and it's a lot better than Wikipedians making up their own flags. It's also easily recognizable, even for readers unfamiliar with NAFTA, simply because it's an amalgamation of the flags of all major North American countries. Hell, it's basically the same as having the US, Mexico, and Canada flags next to each other horizontally, just compressed a bit (and officially recognized by an international standards body, which I assume matters here at least a little bit). TheWarlock 18:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

comments

 * comment, I'd go for "all icons," but that would really clutter things up. I'd go for text, but that wouldn't be as practical.  I'd go for current, but I don't believe the flag of one country can represent an entire continent.  I'd rather try to find some sort of international flag that could represent North America, as well as a flag that could represent South America.  Until then, maybe we could just take the release section out of the infobox; the complete table is about five scrolls down, which isn't a big distance to look, unless humanity has really gotten that lazy.--  the ninth bright shiner   talk 04:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * comment: It's not about being lazy/not, it's about getting the correct info, quickly. Scepia 04:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * comment, Does it really take that much time to scroll down half a page?-- the ninth bright shiner   talk 16:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * comment: I doubt you would choose to scroll down the page if you had the option to not do so. And regardless, people don't magically know where things are located. WP is not some elitist society. Scepia 19:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * comment: No, they don't magically know where stuff is, but there's a table of contents with "Launch" right there at the top.--  the ninth bright shiner   talk 23:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment: I think we should make clear of what these options are. Current means current, All Test means all test, but Vertical and Horizontal pretty much mean All Icons. I think we should just rename All Vertical Icons and All Horizontal Icons. Duhman0009 14:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * comment: I renamed them to current, horiz., vert., horiz (compact) and all text. However, people will have to change their votes to the new names cuz people get mad when I change them. Scepia 18:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Too Much Code
Can we split these into sections instead of tables? My head is spinning. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 05:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The table format allows side-by-side comparisons, and sections would be totally seperate, if you mean like ===This===
 * I understand that, but the code is just killing me. :P — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 05:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The vertical look icons is just plain ugly and would disrupt the infobox. TJ Spyke 06:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Care to give actual comments instead of throwing insults into the wrong header? This section is about the code. Scepia 08:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, time to stop complaining about scrolling difference
I've made a sand box page with a copy of the Wii page, but I used one of my info box: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Duhman0009/draft2

Compare it with the real Wii page, as you can see, the scroll bar on the right is pretty much identical. Using the clicks my mouse wheel does when turning it, I've counted a difference of 2 clicks (give or take a click). So how can adding more lines in the inbox box not make the article any longer? Simple, the infobox is located to the right of an article, not above it. So considering that we only added 5 lines (for the flags) all that it has resulted in is compress a bit of text to the left. Now I don't know the exact mathematical formula behind this, but adding 5 lines to the right does not means you gain 5 lines in total. No, we're getting like 1 and 1/4 extra lines. Hard to explain, but a picture is worth a 1000 words, so compare the two. Duhman0009 21:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, just no. That is too bulky and the worst of the proposed changes i've seen. I still don't get what the problem is, the current page is fine and will stay the way it is since this "poll" isn't binding. TJ Spyke 21:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * TJ Spyke, it's more than clear that you're letting you Personal POV cloud any possible improvement to this page. I also sense a hint patriotism in you wanting to simply leave the US flag to represent NA and SA.


 * This is in no way bulky since we're not even getting 2 full extra lines. Also, I don't see where the poll isn't binding, if anything, it removes one choice which is that the current version should go. Now, it would only be a matter of choosing which way the infobox should be. Lastly, I've said it to you before and I'll say it again, stop acting like this page belongs to you, because it does not. Your saying is not the final saying. I'm the kind of person that likes to handle things on my own, but if I have to, I'll call for a moderator. Duhman0009 22:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the horizontal icons option is much better - it takes up less space, it won't grow as new release dates are added, and it isn't messed up like the vertical icons with all the icons different sizes (i.e. you can't tell as much that the icons are different sizes on the horizontal lines.) In any case, the current one is inaccurate. TJ, your explanations have been "it's ugly". Instead of voting for a better option, you just criticize ;) Scepia 22:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I love the horizontal one as well, I only fear that it would go against the Wikipedia standards and that other users might start another debate or worst, get into an edit war. Duhman0009 22:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I do see what you mean. I made a mock-up here. We should include lots of hidden notes using  and hope the editors don't change it. Scepia 22:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I love it, it looks great. What I mean by Wikipedia standard is that pretty much every page I know of have Flags or Abbreviations on the left and the dates on the right. You have my vote on this infobox, but I would just like for you to inform yourself first if we would be allowed to have dates on top of flags. Duhman0009 22:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, stupid WP standards x.x I suppose we will just have to keep fighting for what we know is the correct format, eh? I think we should enclose a link to this discussion in a hidden note within the infobox, several times. As in  . Think it would work? Scepia 22:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Can't hurt to try, but you do it :p Duhman0009 22:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wii! I mean... whee..... Alright, it is done. Scepia 23:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks great. Now let's see how long before someone changes it :( Duhman0009 23:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * TJ Spyke changed it. Revert what he did and if he does it again, I'll contact a mod. Duhman0009 00:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I reverted it. I don't think he wants to talk - his edit summary for his change was [quote].[/quote] Scepia 00:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I want to add the point that we don't have a week to decide this. Wii is coming out on the 19th. Scepia 00:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, he reverted it. [quote](1) There is no consenus and 2)It's butt-ugly. Find a better way)[/quote] I'm leaving a comment on his talk page. If you think so, call a mod. Scepia 00:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As he should have. That was not a very good choice as far as all the options are concerned. A consensus is not made by two people. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * He just introduced the plain text style from the CVG discussions. I for one like it, and it doesn't break accessibility (as plain flags would). Is this over yet? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * One person changed it and now it's the gold standard? Talk about a two-person consensus. Not everyone knows what NA and SA and ITL and NZ are. If you're gonna make them confusing, don't put them in the IBX at all. Scepia 03:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "Gold standard"? I never said I'm going to try to force this on the article or anything (ie. TJ Spyke), I'm just saying that I don't disagree with it. I also don't disagree with the layout that you put on there. Personally, I like using little continent pictures as I demonstrated, but I bet I'm the only one. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 15:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, seriously, what is wrong with the horizontal icons? I know you don't mind it, and it has a majority here. TJ says "it's ugly", with no explanation. It seems like perhaps he's lying, when really he just wants the USA flag or nothing (AKA text). Scepia 01:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Accessibility
Please consider changing flagicon (🇺🇸) to flag (🇺🇸 USA). Identifying the countries with flags alone renders the infobox illegible for visually impaired users who depend on speech synthesis software to navigate Wikipedia. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 00:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) I will do that. Scepia 00:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks ˉˉanetode╦╩