User talk:Sciologos

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello, Sciologos, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for Talk:Xenu. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! -- Cirt (talk) 12:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
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Your tone
Your tone is getting a bit harsh at Talk:Xenu,. Please comment on content, not contributors. If you cannot back up your claims with independent reliable secondary sources, and instead repeatedly propose to violate site policies such as WP:NOR and WP:SYNTH, then the discussion at Talk:Xenu is unlikely to be productive and is instead disruptive in nature. Please read over the applicable remedies at WP:COFS and WP:ARBSCI regarding behavior within this topic area. Thanks. -- Cirt (talk) 18:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration Enforcement
Please see WP:AE, specifically, Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. Thanks. -- Cirt (talk) 00:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Please note that failure to respond to this accusation may result in adverse inferences being drawn from your silence. Stifle (talk) 07:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration sanction

 * Whereas:
 * WP:ARBSCI remedy 5.1 vests in uninvolved administrators the power to topic-ban users who is focused primarily on Scientology or Scientologists and clearly engaged in promoting an identifiable agenda, and
 * You have edited only Talk:Xenu and an SPI case, and have the agenda of having "scientific support for the OT III story" written up on Wikipedia,
 * Now, therefore,
 * You are topic-banned from Xenu and related pages for three months
 * Violation of this topic ban will result in a block of up to one month for a first infraction (up to one year thereafter) and the topic-ban being reset, as well as the possibility of further sanctions.
 * This sanction may be appealed to me, to WP:AE, or to WP:A/R. Stifle (talk) 09:24, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

2nd Arbitration Enforcement
Please see Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. Thanks. -- Cirt (talk) 16:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

May 2010
You have been blocked from editing, for a period of 1 week, for violating the topic ban imposed above, per the AE request at the bottom of this page. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal the block by adding the text  below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first.  Sandstein  17:54, 16 May 2010 (UTC)


 * (Edit-conflict decline) You were topic-banned from editing articles related to the subject Xenu. You were informed of this here on your talk page; it is visible above..  You were informed that you would be blocked if you made edits related to that topic. You made an edit related to that topic.  Therefore, you were blocked.  Since this relates to an Arbitration Enforcement matter, no mere administrator is permitted to unblock you; the page on arbitration enforcement includes instructions on how to appeal a block related to the enforcement of an arbitration decision, but you'd need to show that either (a) you weren't informed of your topic ban, or (b) you didn't violate the topic ban, which will make an appeal difficult.  Since the terms of your topic ban allowed for a block of up to one month, I think that the blocking administrator must have taken into account that you are a new user when she blocked you for only one week.  -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:45, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about my accusations. I see now that my comment had been moved from the bottom to somewhere in the middle in my socket puppet investigation. By the way, I find the socket puppy investigation incredible amuzing to read. I now understand how an innocent man must feel being accused of crimes he did not commit. But I understand your concern and I welcome the investigation. I can assure you however that I have not been this user "Justa" you're talking about. Again, me editing the Xenu page is entirely new for me.Sciologos (talk) 07:19, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Jeez... this environment is not very appealing when it comes to sort out things: Blocks, threats, not being able to respond freely. Too much obstacles everywhere. Therefore I cannot continue here but would like somebody from Wikipedia, e.g. Smitty1337, to go to some FREE forum and OPENLY discuss these rules without restrictions so that I understand them.Sciologos (talk) 07:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Without reading back, I'm going to be general for you. Some articles are regular victims of non neutral additions and have Wikipedia-wide restrictions for editing.  When any editor breaks those restrictions, they are communicated with to let them know.  Often, an incident is registered at the admins noticeboard for incidents.  They are given the chance to comment / apologize / move forward - however, if their actions were particularly poor, and they failed to respond to any attempts at communication, they may be temporarily blocked in an escalating manner (such as a week the first time, a month the next, etc).
 * You do not appear to be WP:BAN in any manner. You (and everyone) has an editing restriction on at least one article, and you are blocked for a mere week because of it.
 * The "you have new messages" is clear and orange on purpose, and it's clearly directed to you. I hope this helps - there's a lot of reading you can do before the end of the week.  I'm sure that you have much to add to this project. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 09:36, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers. Actually, instead of me coming up with examples all the time and learning new rules and cornerstones I think the easiest way would be to ask the other way around:

Question: Is it possible and if possible: How could a neutral article about Xenu, geological findings regarding it, auditing stories from Scientologists and Freezoners, E-meter movements, geological facts against Xenu etc be accomplished in terms of reliable sources, no original research and all the other rules? Feel free to elaborate and be specific if you feel for it.Sciologos (talk) 10:39, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you interested in any other subjects? As far as I know, there aren't any independent sources verifying the claims you've made, so I don't think you're going to get far in that direction, but if you're interested in making the encyclopedia better, there are lots of other things you can do.  List of Irish cheeses has lots of articles that haven't been written yet. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 12:12, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

So I guess the best way would be to have such an article be based on several third-party scientific investigations accomplished by independent universities or similair having done some serious studies regarding the subject? (Irish cheese smells funny by the way, I prefer the coffee.)Sciologos (talk) 12:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Bwilkins: I think when he said new messages he meant further comments on the article talk page, and not his user talk page. That's what I gathered, at least. And of course, not everybody uses their watchlist; and not everybody remembers to check back on pending discussions. But that aside, I don't see any reason to unblock here. Hopefully Sciologos will adopt a more healthy style of editing when the block expires. AGK   15:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Your offer to base an article on third-party scientific investigations is puzzling to me; I sincerely doubt that there are any peer-reviewed scientific papers, produced outside the Church of Scientology, which say that Xenu exists or existed. Such a paper would certainly have been major news all over the world; I'm certain that I would have read or heard about it.  If you're offering to take a scientific paper about the existence of certain minerals, and then use it to write an article about how that discovery verifies the existence of Xenu, then that would be original research, and not what the encyclopedia can use- we only report what the sources report; we don't draw our own conclusions.  And, in any case, you are restricted from this topic, so you'll have to just have faith that, if such sources become available, someone else will certainly add the information to the relevant article. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm getting the feeling the world at large is not ready to confront and investigate these matters further yet. If Xenu and the auditing procedures are true and work (I'm not saying they are but it could be until the matter has been further investigated thoroughly) it seems to be on a too high gradient level for most people to even think about. Judging by the huge resistence on Wikipedia alone, by just trying to have a very simple conversation and learn all the rules and bringing up some hard fact evidence I make the conclusion this has to evolve in a more proper fashion. Well, you got some geological evidence to ponder together with auditing stories in the thousands, some of them from the most famous artists on earth (artists are usually more open to new things). Happy summer!Sciologos (talk) 16:15, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

A final note:

Sockpuppet investigation:

85.160.13.191 83.189.78.161 90.128.5.227 213.29.115.8

I guess the IP staring with 85 are mine? How come you think IP starting with 90 has anything to do with me? And what about 213?? That's quite a different number from 85. The only Wiki editing I've ever done have been very minor, probably 3-6 years ago and was very small, like a couple of sentences here and there in some articles from what I can remember. I don't think I have had another user account. It might be possible I had an old one from several years ago I used shortly, but if that's the case (I can honestly not remember) I could not remember it. I came up with (ScioLogos) since I wanted to add some suggestions. What is a proxy? I'm using my broadband as a paying customer, that's all. I don't have any "hiding" IPs if that's what you're referring to. I've never edited the Xenu article prior to my recent edits. I can tell you you're making very loose assumptions here.

I also suggest you investigate the user Cirt and his suitability as an editor as he apparently does not support freedom of speech and shows lack of understanding with newcomers on Wikipedia (at least me), but instead tries to shut everything down quickly when arguments become interesting. What is he afraid of? Not very scientific and neutral. I had to learn a lot of rules before faintly understand how Wiki works.

Also, may I rephrase my original intention since I had no idea how Wikipedia works (in all perfect honesty): To add NEUTRAL articles about Xenu, geological evidence, auditing stories etc wihout breaking any cornerstones, rules or similair. I appreciate neutrality since I appreciate truth. Thanx. Sciologos (talk) 10:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The first amendment forbids the United States government from making laws to restrict freedom of speech. Wikipedia is not a government entity, but a privately owned web site; the concept of 'freedom of speech' does not apply to Wikipedia.
 * If there is a peer-reviewed scientific study that says that Xenu exists, cite it here, and we can discuss whether it should be added to an article- the proven existence of Xenu would be a fact, and so would belong in the article, but I don't believe such a study exists. The proven existence of certain minerals only proves the existence of those minerals; if it was in doubt, we could write about those minerals in the articles about them, but unless the peer-reviewed scientific study says that they prove the existence of Xenu, we aren't allowed to draw our own conclusions.
 * 'Auditing stories' are not a fact, and so they do not have any place in an encyclopedia article.
 * Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over? If you don't understand the answers in written English, I don't have any other way to communicate with you.  -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I never said auditing stories were facts, they were quotes, just like e.g. Hubbard and OJ Simpson are allowed to be quoted directly (and not be regarded as facts) in encyclopedia articles on Wikipedia. Well, I've made my points and they are here for everybody to ponder.Sciologos (talk) 11:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Note, Moved your statement on the sockpuppet investigation to that page...since I believe you can't comment there while under ban.Coffeepusher (talk) 17:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Reminder
Per remedy 8 of this arbitration case, please be reminded that you should edit Scientology-related topics only from this account (Sciologos), which excludes editing while logged out. In the event that you edited the topic area while logged out by accident, you should immediately log in and remedy the mistake. Failure to do so may result in an expanded topic ban from the entire Scientology topic area, as the remedy provided. Tim Song (talk) 19:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)