User talk:Sean.hoyland/Archive 15

Thanks for your explanation
Thank you for taking the time to explain on Talk:Emmaus Nicopolis. For whatsoever it is worth, I spent my years trying to work on ARBPIA articles and too am very burnt out by the rancor and inability to compromise on ARBPIA that I find on both sides of the issue as well. Obviously, you and I will tend to have different POVs and prefer different formulations were we to have complete editorial control, but we don't, and I, for one, appreciate the opportunity to discuss the issues as adults. Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 15:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Being burnt out by ARBPIA has its benefits. I think I've bought almost 200 books since I stopped editing so much, about 150 of which I've actually found time to read in peace.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 17:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * [[file:face-grin.svg|28px]]. -- Avi (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Your Comment on the Emmaus Nicopolis Talk-Page
Sean, I noticed your comment on the E-N Talk-Page, where you wrote: "If there is a requirement to show the full extent of the status, the way to start doing that is to describe it as the 'Israeli-occupied West Bank'. It's an occupation administered by the Israeli military. Doing what is 'only fitting and right' according to Wikipedia policy would mean describing the status as RS describe it rather than using non-specific language that hides rather than provides information, and obscures rather than clarifies. Further details with respect to Oslo II could be added or not, but describing an occupation as 'rule' is not how to write an encyclopedia article in my view."

I think that by writing, "Israeli occupied West Bank," in the article in question would be an even worse option than the current edit, since it puts WP in a position of taking sides in the political issue. Some feel that Israel's de facto hold or annexation of the country is legal, since it was obtained through war, just as Jordan secured territory through war in 1948. Now it is Israel, and as custodians of the land, it is Israel's right to decide legal matters touching the land and its inhabitants. Israel, by the way, inherited the land tenure laws from the British, who, in turn, inherited them from the Ottoman Turks. What was legally done back then is legally being done today.Davidbena (talk) 22:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What you are trying to do is inconsistent with Wikipedia's rules. It's also wrong, as in right and wrong, in my view. There's a duty of care towards readers to ensure they are not mislead and misinformed. In fact, the Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use explicitly prohibits engaging in false statements. You don't appear to be conscious of how extreme, fringe and misinformed your views are and how far they deviate from the state of affairs according to reliable sources, which is the only thing that matters here. You will fail in your efforts, people will not allow it, and you will waste a part of your life doing so, time you will never get back. If you push, people may push back harder, and could get the very opposite of what you want. The experienced editors who can choose whether or not to push back have Wikipedia's rules on their side and a vast array of reliable sources that they can deploy at anytime. You have virtually nothing but a belief system. If I were an Israel supporter with an indifference to reality-as-defined-by-reliable-sources and an aversion to the language used by reliable sources to describe the state of affairs in the West Bank, I would just leave it at 'West Bank' and be relieved that that was the only piece of information there.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 06:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll add something else for interest. For reasons I've never really understood and certainly don't care about, Israel supporters on Wikipedia have invariably treated me as some kind of pro-Palestinian activist. In fact, my personal views are mainstream and pretty consistent with those of the international community. But the important thing is, when I edit in the ARBPIA topic area (and other controversial areas) it is not me editing, it's me trying to simulate as best I can what I think a disinterested smart bot would do, a smart bot that is constrained by Wikipedia's rules, has access to the set of reliable sources pertinent to a question and a complete indifference to the beliefs of the pesky human editors. Of course it's impossible to successfully pretend to be a bot but you can see that this approach means that I just reject everything you say. I just don't care because you are not a reliable source.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 06:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Not that it's a false statement to say that Emmaus Nicopolis is in Israel, I have already agreed to let "West Bank" stand. As for the rest of your arguments, I take your view as reflecting that of many, here on WP, but do not entertain the notion that those who disagree with that view cannot present their own reliable sources. Most Israelis do not agree with the leftist media's view and take on this issue. Davidbena (talk) 13:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * So, present your high quality reliable sources at the West Bank article, sources that explain that the West Bank or specific spatial subsets of the West Bank are 'in Israel' and watch what happens. I predict that it will not end well. You are making a grave tactical error if you under-estimate the knowledge and integrity of many Wikipedia editors, their familiarity with sources, history, international law, the positions of various governments and international organizations and the views and tactics of Israel supporters on Wikipedia for over a decade. Do you think you are the first person to try to do what you are doing? Do you think you will have more success than the hundreds of people who have tried to do what you are doing and failed because the rules ensure failure for this kind of effort? Where are all the others who have gone before you? They are not here anymore. Experienced editors and admins have limited patience. Bear that in mind. Nobody who understands the constraints imposed by Wikipedia's rules is going to understand the purpose of an argument that starts with the string "Most Israelis do not agree with..." unless the subject being considered is the views of the Israeli public.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 14:37, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sean, you are forgetting one thing. There is already a consensus to keep the wording "West Bank." I have agreed to keep it too. No amount of reliable sources that I could show them on that Talk-Page will change their opinion, especially when the world at large is mostly against Israel. What I can do is ameliorate what I feel is wrong or overtly biased towards Israel's view of this issue. By the way, I never "under-estimate the knowledge and integrity of many Wikipedia editors, their familiarity with sources, history, international law, etc.", but I have shown in my previous posts, and I think quite consummately, how international law and opinions towards Israel swiftly change, and are largely dependent upon the whims and fancies of men. I have no doubt in my mind that Israel is in the right in what concerns its hold of the country. Be well.Davidbena (talk) 15:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * You have no doubt in your mind and I have nothing but doubt in my mind, which suits me fine. To paraphrase the fictional Nathan Zuckerman "getting [things] right is not what living is all about anyway. It’s getting them wrong that is living, getting them wrong and wrong and wrong and then, on careful reconsideration, getting them wrong again. That’s how we know we are alive: we’re wrong".  Sean.hoyland  - talk 15:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Muah
As much as an Arab Muslim male can legally love another man in my current location, I love you Sean. Sickest man you are.  nableezy  - 07:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I was simply welcoming an editor on behalf of WikiProject Countering systemic bias and WikiProject Promoting existential nihilism and immature behavior.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 09:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Palestine
I want to clarify once and for all the problem of the entities called “Palestine” They are two different entities -the first ‘State of Palestine” proclaimed on 15 November 1988 by the Palestinian National Council (PNC) in Algiers, in fact a government in exile which do not control the territory rededicated. The state of Palestine has a president but instead of government has the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization lead by a chairman, in present the same person as the president and a Parliament called Palestinian National Council. -the second is in fact Palestinian National Authority which renamed itself the State of Palestine on 6 January 2013. The PNA has a president, a government led by a prime minister and a Parliament named Palestinian Legislative Council. So constitutionally speaking, the only links between these two entities are the name and the person of the president. Bogdan Uleia (talk)

Talkpages also?
Regarding this revert. Does the 3/500 restriction apply to talkpages as well? Could you show me where it says so? Debresser (talk) 08:39, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can apply to talk pages, see WP:ARBPIA3 "prohibited from editing any page". However, I've noticed that in practice people are generally rather tolerant when it comes to talk page postings by accounts/IPs that don't meet the requirements as long as they aren't posting trash or blatantly POV pushing. So the rule is being used with discretion at the moment.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 09:33, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Blocking talkpages for IP users is a rather extreme measure. In this case, however, I agree it was justified. Debresser (talk) 14:23, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

church of the Holy Sepulchre
This reference shows that the church of the Holy Sepulchre is considered minor basilica, cathedral and sanctuary of Israel, by the Roman Catholic Church, please consider reverse your action. Basilica of the Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem, Israel www.gcatholic.org/churches/asia/0124.htm https://www.google.co.ve/search?client=opera&q=libros&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=cfSYVtWfL8OD2AHlwLqICg#q=Basilica+of+the+Holy+Sepulchre%2C+Jerusalem%2C+Israel+www.gcatholic.org%2Fchurches%2Fasia%2F0124.htm --Warairarepano&#38;Guaicaipuro (talk) 15:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The source is wrong. Locations across the Green Line cannot be described as 'in Israel' in Wikipedia. That would be a straightforward WP:NPOV policy violation. If you would like further information about the status of Jerusalem see Old City (Jerusalem), East Jerusalem and Positions on Jerusalem.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 16:05, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

About Israeli wikipedias or Israeli vandals
BDSing a country becuase of wikipedians? Jee... Anyway, what I wanted to say is, most of the Israelis that edit Wikipedia, regardless of the langage are usually to the right-side of the political spectrum. I have no explaination, but this is how it is. Because I am in the center I managed to survive the early battle days as an Israeli Wikipedian "seeking the defend his nation". In the mind of an Israeli, Jerusalem is the captial of Israel. It is de-facto. It was the center of Judaism for nearly 3,000 years. So "now those damn pro-Palestinians are poisening Wikipedia with Palestinian propaganda?! NO WAY". The same happenes with Russians who support the annexation of Crimea or Ukranians who oppose it. There's a strong degree of "nation defend" in those edits. Now I know some Israeli editors in Wikipedia and some of them are to the right-side and they are great Wikipedians but there's nothing to do, showing someone things that look like what his country's enemies are saying all time will, in many cases, trigger his sense of national defense, regardless of his own opinion. I hate the West Bank, I detest the settlers, I wish the settlements were never built but sometimes there's a bias and I have the urge to try and fix it. Sometimes people make WP:SYNTHy, unsourced consensuses based on a democratic RfC to say that a paper in the UN is a state just like every other state on earth and when they are presented with over 45 sources, including 10 sources from people with high degrees in international law who are not neccessaraly Israeli, they will make a campaign to ban you from Wikipedia. But Israeli editors can change. I learned it when I had a terrible week, being accused of NOTTHERE while clearly needing to learn to a very important test and I realised that being a combantant doesn't pay off. If you present Israeli editors with this fact, you explain them that not everyone is neccesarily an Anti-Israeli and tell them that this is not they way to make the English Wikipedia less biased, they will either listen or give up Wikipedia. So don't judge an entire country due to some IPs. (If you want to boycott, that's your loss, but oh please let's not start a conversation about BDS)--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:10, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this, I appreciate it. It's such a nice change to receive a message like this. Well, to clarify one point first on the influence of Wikipedians, I did say "in part", and I suppose my main point was the irony of the unintended consequences of advocacy in that I inadvertently educated myself about the occupation far more than I actually wanted to, and it was this that changed my views. It's not that I was uninformed either. I grew up listening to British Army stories about Palestine in 1947-48, the civil war, the Cyprus internment camps, the refugees coming in on ships etc, I've lived in and traveled around the region quite a bit, including making an unplanned visit to a Palestinian refugee camp, I've known and worked with plenty of Palestinians, I read decent newspapers and follow the news. But I have zero interest in politics and an almost pathological intolerance for all forms nationalism, religion, violence, anything divisive, combined with incurable cynicism. It's just that editing in ARBPIA makes you pay attention to a specific conflict in a specific place and the more people push the more attention you have to pay. I'm not interested in judging countries. Almost every country has a lot of blood in its hands if you spend the time to get to know the country and it's history. I know it's a very skewed sample of the Israel supporter political spectrum we have here at Wikipedia, and it's heartening to know that you also find that inexplicable. The irony is that in the real world I've never met an Israeli I haven't liked (which must surely be a statistical blip because to a first approximation I find everyone annoying) and oddly I've never met an Israeli on the right wing of the spectrum. ARBPIA or perhaps Wikipedia in general is a peculiar place.


 * On the content issues, I'll never really understand the Jerusalem issue or why anyone has an urge to defend their country from criticism (and in the real world I'm surrounded by nationalism) or why people think history matters other than as a way to avoid repeating mistakes. I think I've spent almost as much time living and working in countries other than the one my passport says is apparently my country. Whatever socialization I received there, and it was very extensive I'm sure, I've tried to brutally excise as far as possible and now have no allegiance to any country, any religion, any culture or any political system. I've returned to a kind of simple, barely clothed, tribal lifestyle, albeit surrounded by security people, on my little bit of private land covered by huge tropical trees that I grew myself from seeds, my own Magic Garden, with access to state-of-the-art technology, deep in the heart of a military dictatorship. I don't even get why people are proud of their national or ethnic identity. I'm sure I used to be able to understand these things but with age and travel it seems to have been obliterated by the sheer complexity of the real world. If someone asks me where I'm from nowadays I'm always tempted to just say 'No, we're not doing that'. I'm with Ben Katchor who once said "national or ethnic identity (like patriotism) is for people who are afraid of being judged for what they are making of their own life and want to ride, in a mob, on the coattails of their supposedly venerable ancestors." On the other hand, I love culture clashes. They make the world much more hilarious and interesting.


 * The Palestine is state-ish-sort-of-thing issue is difficult. I can understand the urge to clarify, add details and qualifiers, I also have that urge for precision, but I also have a 'meh, what does it matter anyway' urge. I think the Jerusalem lead issue showed that it is possible to solve issues like that in Wikipedia, but it takes an awful lot of effort, a lot of source sampling and a very broad sampling of Wikipedians in the RfC.


 * I agree that editors can change and get better, but it's surprisingly hard for people to let go, and just focus on Wikipedia as an encyclopedia constructed by people dutifully sampling RS and following rules without really caring about how that reflects on things they may cherish. The spontaneous self-assembling public lynchings seem to be deeply embedded in Wikipedia culture. I always try to remind myself that we are all just somewhat dopey primates and we shouldn't expect too much.


 * The good thing about BDS is that they don't do any auditing. If they did, I'm sure I would get asked 'Why do you have all of these Rutu Modan books?' Yeah, my support for BDS amounts to not buying settlement products and occasionally gently teasing young Israeli woman selling cosmetics who stop my wife and I in shopping malls and try to sell us Dead Sea products. After that we go off and buy products produced by the delightful reality of human trafficking and modern slavery in our part of the world. I'm making a huge difference. I can't support cultural botcotts though. Culture's too important.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 08:10, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Don't buy dead sea products. Those sellers are liers and they are hated all over Israel. I always tell my mom when we go to the Dead Sea "Mom! you can buy the same dead sea products in Tel Avi in 50% of the price!"
 * And the thing about Jerusalem, it is a very very fundemental thing. It is one of the reasons why Jews came to Israel was Jerusalem. Our national anthem has Jerusalem in it. Our national Emblem has the Menorah from Jerusalem. When we learn about the bible in torah studies for 10 years in school we reach the story about Jerusalem. We have the Jerusalem day and we have school trips to Jerusalem. Now as far as I hate far-right wing Israelis and overall fear fascism will takeover Israel in the future, I really don't think all this obsession with Jerusalem is ultra-nationalist.. Not at all. But think what a person who grew up in such an environment will think when he will first see people who take all of this ethos on Jerusalem and throw it into the trash can (or just say that Jerusalem shouldn't part of Israel).
 * I had a transition in my mind in the last 3 years (I am 17 by the way). When I was younger I didn't really knew or cared about Jerusalem. When I grew up, I thought "well, we annexed Jerusalem, so it's part of Israel" and I oppsed the splitting of Jerusalem but now, I do. I do want to split Jerusalem into two cities, Jerusalem and al-Quds. This transition was very hard for me, becuase although I live in a leftist society, I wasn't exposed to leftist ideas too much, I am really in the center of the politics. The problem is not that I refused to face historical facts and pragmatist ideas to reach the conclusion Jerusalem should be splitted, I didn't even know the historical facts and that's the problem with Israelis when it comes to politics, they don't always know the historical facts. Now I don't say pro-Palestinians do, they mostly just repeat the same propaganda, but at least they have arguments. So don't be too harsh with Israelis. Just revert them and don't think about it. If you really want, you can send them to me.


 * Oh and to sum up, right-wing Israelis call me a traitor. Left-wing Israelis call me a fascist and pro-Palestinians call me a supporter of the occupation. I am non of the three.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 12:50, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I try not to judge people based on their beliefs as no one gets to choose where they were born or what they're taught to believe, but it's hard given that my default position is that everyone is wrong about everything apart from me. It would be sad to see Jerusalem split into two cities. My views on a solution seem to change seemingly at random, two state, one state, financial incentives to promote intermarriage, mandatory and regular temporary exchange of guardianship of children between Israeli and Palestinian families, invasion and occupation of the entire region by the People's Republic of China, many other patently foolish ideas. I guess people are natural born taxonomists everywhere and love labeling everything and everyone. I think at this point I'm supposed to say something like, don't worry, you have your whole life ahead of you. Anyway, I shall take you up on your offer of sending editors your way if they look like they aren't damaged beyond repair.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 16:29, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If you want an interesting position on Jerusalem you can watch this five minutes video made by Shaul Arieli, a prominant Israeli publicist who was an Israeli general in the IDF who always supported negotiations. He later became one of the prominant writers of the Geneva Initiative (2003). I should write an article about him.
 * And in addition to taming Israelis, you can ask for my help/opinion/whatever related to to Israel and Middle East related articles anytime you want. Cheers. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Discussion on your actions at administrators noticeboard
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Careful
Please be careful what you revert. In this revert you also undid some other improvements I made. Debresser (talk) 07:26, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

By the way, read Positions on Jerusalem that the issue is with East Jerusalem. Debresser (talk) 07:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Notification
As one of the editors who participated in the discussion leading up to this Rfc, please see Talk:Jerusalem. Debresser (talk) 10:32, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

IP problem
I have reverted all of the IP's edits, which has resulted in him namecalling and reverting me. I will report him now.  ミーラー強斗武   (StG88ぬ会話) 09:06, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

"articles"
you remember any of the articles written on attacks from a year ago? thinking its time for a re-run of some afds, see if these people understand what sustained means.  nableezy  - 18:14, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Which attacks may I ask?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:16, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles EM Gregory makes on every act of violence by a Palestinian, or more broadly for him by a Muslim. Like the Jerusalem shooting article, but any from a year ago or so where it can be fairly easily established there is no sustained coverage.  nableezy  - 18:22, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * EMG's article creation list is here. I know at least one which I AfD'ed but withdrew because it did have lasting impact (though the point is still not mentioned in the article). There's another, whose main WP:LASTING issue is touched on only briefly in the article (the killing of the Eritrean bystander and the connection with African immigration to Israel). I checked Google News mentions of the latter a few weeks back and most, if not all of the coverage was regarding the latter, IIRC. For the rest, I haven't checked. Kingsindian &#9821; &#9818; 19:27, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I can give you my opinion on the Israeli related incidents, based on my observation.
 * Murder of Eitam and Na'ama Henkin - Kept
 * Lions' Gate stabbings - kept
 * 2015 Gush Etzion Junction shooting - deleted
 * 2015 Tel Aviv synagogue stabbing - deleted
 * Beersheva bus station shooting - kept
 * January 2016 Tel Aviv shooting - kept
 * 2016 Tel Aviv stabbings - not sure
 * 2016 Jerusalem bus bombing - not sure
 * June 2016 Tel Aviv shooting - kept
 * Murder of Hallel Yaffa Ariel - deleted
 * 2016 Jerusalem shooting attack - deleted

<-It would be interesting to see whether WP:LASTING has anything more than a random impact on the outcome of AfD re-runs. WP:NOTNEWS doesn't appear to have a discernable impact on outcomes for these kind of articles, as far as I can tell, so I'm skeptical about WP:LASTING being implemented.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 16:46, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Idk its easy for somebody to say look theres this article 2 WHOLE WEEKS later that shows sustained coverage. A bit more difficult to define sustained that way when its a year later.  nableezy  - 19:26, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

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Your feedback matters: Final reminder to take the global Wikimedia survey
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Hi
I was wondering, what was the user name of that banned sock from Buenos Aires, Argentina? Herut....something? I just see an IP from Buenos Aires now asking editors to do their edits. Huldra (talk) 04:05, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * .  nableezy  - 06:06, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Correcto. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 16:34, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, both of you. I’m not too familiar with his modus operandi, could it be him, here?  Huldra (talk) 20:09, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see that went down the memory hole. In case you wondered; I was "outed" an operative of ISIS! Heh. Oh, and a gypsy! Huldra (talk) 22:11, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Category:Organisations designated as terrorist by Canada has been nominated for discussion
Category:Organisations designated as terrorist by Canada, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. AusLondonder (talk) 04:38, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Alberto Burri Bianco Plastica 1966.jpg
 Thanks for uploading File:Alberto Burri Bianco Plastica 1966.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Your access to AWB may be temporarily removed
Hello Sean.hoyland! This message is to inform you that due to editing inactivity, your access to AutoWikiBrowser may be temporarily removed. If you do not resume editing within the next week, your username will be removed from the CheckPage. This is purely for routine maintenance and is not indicative of wrongdoing on your part. You may regain access at any time by simply requesting it at WP:PERM/AWB. Thank you! &mdash; MusikBot II  talk  22:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

since youre around
what do you think re this and this. There are so many similarities its just seems odd for such an established user to start. But the former picks up right when the latter is topic-banned, and there are several style similarities. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 18:46, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I saw those messages. That's why I'm around. I also looked at the similarities, the article intersections and how the edits interleave in time. I agree, it doesn't look good. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 06:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * this going to be one of those reports I have to spend the time making if I want something done about it or you interested in bettering Wikipedia today? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 16:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Probably not what you want to hear, and apologies, but I think a report prepared by you would be better than mine and more likely to trigger a proper SPI investigation. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 11:09, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * you always were a bit useless. jk jk, hope you been well and hopefully will continue to be well. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 15:38, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * But if you have anything to add, by all means feel free. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 17:12, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm very well thanks and hope you are too. You seem to be well judging from your relentless efforts. One thing I might be able to do is pull the contributions out of the API and sort them by timestamp to illustrate the curious interleaving pattern. I'll have a look tomorrow. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 17:56, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Email sent. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 18:47, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Curious interleaved non-overlapping pattern, no? Looks like Articles_for_deletion/Bassel_al-Araj was the trigger. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 19:16, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the trigger, if Im right, was the topic ban. But we'll see, might just be wrong, stranger things have happened. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 22:25, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Guess not on the whole being wrong part. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 23:04, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sigh...the dishonesty is disheartening. Well done for spotting it. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 03:49, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * And the topic ban wasnt even the trigger. Started with your standard vote stacking pre-ban. Huh. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 14:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That seems worse in a way, although objectively it isn't. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 15:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

On a BadSite somebody brought up another username,. A brief looks seems to line up there as well. Will see if that one comes back. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 18:19, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * ¿BadSite, qué? Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more in the past and in the future. Their apparently unhealthy aversion to various peoples and compulsion to demonize them was strong enough to cross various lines. Having said that this fool needs to be shut down. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 18:31, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, BadSite. I see now. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Sean.hoyland  - talk 19:53, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I legit dont get how some people argue with me over some of these things. Like youre seriously going to say, with your 2875 edits, that Im wrong about the policy here? That I dont know what I am talking about? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 22:47, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Apis florea nest thailand edge view.jpg


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Orphaned non-free image File:Doris Zinkeisen Self portrait.jpg
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Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey?
Hello :) I am writing my MA dissertation on Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict, and I noticed that you have contributed to those pages. My dissertation will look at the process of collaborative knowledge production on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the effect it has on bias in the articles. This will involve understanding the profiles and motivations of editors, contention/controversy and dispute resolution in the talk pages, and bias in the final article. For more information, you can check out my meta-wiki research page or my user page, where I will be posting my findings when I am done. I would greatly appreciate if you could take 5 minutes to fill out this quick survey before 8 August 2021.

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Sarabnas I'm researching Wikipedia Questions? 21:01, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

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Welcome back
I just wanted to drop you a note and say welcome back! Hope your time away from WP was restful :) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b> (talk · he/him) 00:35, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * One other thing, while I am here: would you be able to change your signature to ? Your current signature causes WP:LINT errors; the new version will display the exact same way without the lint. Best,<span id="HouseBlaster:1705876446167:User_talkFTTCLNSean.hoyland" class="FTTCmt"> <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b> (talk · he/him) 22:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the welcome back and the linter tip. I'll have a look. I might go back to a standard signature as an offering to the linter gods. To clarify, I'm not really back in a content editing sense, more like in a constant superposition of observer/editor states. I'm back to look at some interesting technical puzzles. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><font color="#000">Sean.hoyland  - talk 02:54, 22 January 2024 (UTC) --> Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:39, 22 January 2024 (UTC)