User talk:Seraphim System/Archive 9

DYK for Alepotrypa cave
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Please comment on Talk:Dawenkou culture
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RE ANI
Re this comment, it is not as bad as you state (and this would not be the first or second problem in those edits) - as Palestinians all identify as part of the Arab nation (and there are also internal divisions) - the Analog for the US Senator would be changing from American to North American, or from French to European.Icewhiz (talk) 19:00, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:RS or it didn't happen. Chuck Schumer identifies as Jewish, so why are you pretending that most editors would not object if a new editor started adding Jewish to the lede of articles of American Jews. I have literally seen them object, it ended with an indef (though there were other problems with that editor also). 24 edits is not very many, and I generally don't support quick indefs outside COI/new article recreation type situations, but giving new editors the impression that these types of edits are "ok" and it is like changing French to European is not helpful. Seraphim System ( talk ) 03:23, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * And not just Arabs but interloping Arabs. Which is a borderline racial sterotype that means "meddling Arabs". Please stop trying to compare this to changing American to North American. This idea that denying Palestinian identity or existence, which is what this is, is equally represented in WP:RS and thus a legitimate edit in this topic area is similar to what often gets new accounts indeff'd — I don't generally support this outside COI/AfC or get involved, but I assume that more experienced editors have seen this behavior before and seem to know what they doing when they bring the accounts to ANI — particularly for edits involving the alt-right or World War II or other far right ideologies. I don't really understand why there seems to be another standard here. Seraphim System ( talk ) 03:36, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I was not defending this editor (heck - I placed a DS alert on his talk page) - but referring to a very narrow aspect here (and not in ANI). "Interloping" (as well as a few other points) is indeed much more problematic than Palestinain->Arab (which also has some problems - what I was trying to say was that this was not the worst aspect here). As for identifying Jews in America (which is the opposite move - identifying a sub group from the whole) - many Jews (as well as other minorities) are very wary when they are caĺled out as such instead of being referred as "normal Americans" (particularly when some elements try to do so, e.g. Triple parentheses).Icewhiz (talk) 03:49, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * A triple parentheses is definitely not ok but I actually don't see the problem with identifying Americans Jews as Jewish in the lede, a lot of normal Americans are multicultural ...when Haaretz dropped American and identified me as Turkish and not Turkish-American and I was kind of annoyed, but as long as it is Jewish-American, I don't think it should be a problem (but other editors may have different views). The new editor in question at this point should probably be made aware of WP:WESTBANK [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beit_Yatir&diff=prev&oldid=837847883] but it looks like they have not edited since the ANI report was filed. Seraphim System ( talk ) 04:11, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Judicial Watch
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Please comment on Talk:Antisemitism in the Labour Party
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Please comment on Talk:Abortion and the Catholic Church
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Newspapers.com
Hello Seraphim System, I sent you an email about ten days ago in regards to your Newspapers.com account. I'm unable to proceed until I receive a response from you. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 19:46, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * My newspapers.com account is still active, I thought it had been renewed already? I am waiting to hear back about newspaperarchive.com — that archive starts earlier and there have been some occasions where I have wanted to check it to improve new articles about early American history. I was approved months ago but I don't think I ever received a login. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 22:47, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Whops! Feel free to ignore then, for some reason I have your account on my list of accounts to process. Hmmm. I'll ping about the Newspaperarchive.com issue. . --Cameron11598 (Talk) 19:00, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear that - Iazyges processes the applications for Newspaperarchive.com, and can hopefully help you with that issue. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:22, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Anatolia
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Please comment on Talk:John R. Bolton
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Louis Farrakhan
I've asked the other editor to add in better links instead of blanking the section if they have issues. Louis' views on this are well known and so the section should not be blanked if you do not like the source. Find better sources instead and work together is all I asked. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you — what confused me is that black separatism seem to be being being treated as derogatory. I agree that pulling a quote from a speech is not super precise, but I think RT is enough to add a quote about a "land of our own" to a section about black separatism, as long as there is nothing derogatory. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 19:38, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Their issues seem to be your sourcing, so please try and work on the RS references. Thanks C. W. Gilmore (talk) 19:47, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Your both closer together on this issue than you know, but are coming at it from very different starting points. If possible, can you both work this out on the TP? C. W. Gilmore (talk) 19:50, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * RT has come up at RS/n but there is no consensus that it is not WP:RS and this is a video, so in my view it's pretty easy to verify that the words are coming out of Farrakhan's mouth. I will be pretty busy today re TP discussion, so I may miss it unless I'm pinged. Seraphim System ( talk ) 19:59, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Louis is a controversial figure with many followers and detractors. It is essential that everything on this article be verified with at least 2 good quality sources or it will get ripped apart by one of those groups or the other.  I know it's a lot to ask, but I hope you understand the reasons why it is needed on this part of this page.  Please try to continue to improve the source on this section to save us all headaches in the future, thanks C. W. Gilmore (talk) 20:19, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Dana Loesch
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AA2 advisory
...Just wanted to let you know about this. The stuff about the map may be understood by some editors as genocide denial due to what RSs have said about the term Eastern Anatolia. This has been explained on the talk page. Étienne Dolet (talk) 04:49, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The RS are all here, including the one cited in the article: User:Seraphim_System/map, they are all very high quality — I have no idea what you are talking about re may be understood by some editors as genocide denial due to what RSs have said about the term Eastern Anatolia — I have been looking for sources to support your POV since you haven't posted any (after multiple requests) and I can't find any. I'm sorry, but that is more than I am required to do by any policy. Are you saying using the term Eastern Anatolia is genocide denial? Please post WP:RS for this to help me update the map, or drop it. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 05:09, 6 May 2018 (UTC)


 * It was, essentially, a continuation of it. The annihilation of Armenians, both physically and figuratively, is a continuation of one linear policy. The substitution of Armenia with Eastern Anatolia was not an accident. It was to cover up their tracks and pretend like the Armenians, who were forcefully deported and massacred en masse, never lived on those lands to begin with. As for the sources, they're in the article itself. This has been pointed out to you several times already. Étienne Dolet (talk) 05:26, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you're mistaken, it was coined by the Ottoman government, not the Turkish government, and it was already in use in the 19th century. I've seen numerous pre-genocide sources that use the term. It doesn't bother me if you use Armenian plateau, but hundreds (probably thousands) of RS use the term Eastern Anatolia, so I don't think its fair to say its genocide denial when I have to follow WP:RS. Seraphim System ( talk ) 05:44, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, that's wrong. The fact of the matter is, the term Armenia was banned by the Ottoman government as early as 1880. Please, read this: Eastern_Anatolia_Region and I suggest you take it under consideration. That is all. Étienne Dolet (talk) 05:57, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I am going to try color coding the points and adding it to the legend. That may be the best way to represent different time periods and names on one map without making it illegible. Thanks for the link to the article. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 06:19, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Basketball Federation of Serbia
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Please comment on Talk:List of modern names for biblical place names
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Louis Farrakhan
"edit warring while someone is expanding a section is extremely irritating btw"--sure, but so is introducing really contentious material in a BLP based on RT (seriously, RT???). After that series of edits based on RT and YouTube videos (where a few quotes are easily pulled out of context), I am not convinced that the sources you cite say what you make them say, particularly "rejecting the values of equal rights", which does not automatically follow from the first part of that sentence. I am going to revert, with a ping to and to, and y'all can try to hash this out on the talk page where, I suggest, you try to find accessible sources so they can be judged, and/or you cite extensively from the source material so it's clear you're not synthesizing or orginal-researching. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 14:21, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Obviously you didn't bother to read the source: . The fact that you were too lazy to google the source doesn't make it WP:OR. The worse part of editing here is admins who can't tell the difference between a good faith editor and one who misrepresents sources. I'm on a wikibreak, leave me alone — I got an email about this and logged in because I thought it was something important. Seraphim System ( talk ) 01:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I suggested you find "accessible sources"--this one is now accessible, so great. But to paraphrase that passage as saying "he rejected equal rights" is a misinterpretation: what he rejected, based on that passage, is the request for equal rights, which he deemed useless given white supremacy. You turned that into something that smacks of racism: "he rejected equal rights" means "he rejected the notion that blacks and whites should have equal rights" or something like that. The central tenet of the civil rights movement was basically that everybody have equal rights in a society in which people lived together, and he was a racial separatist. You made him a racist. Have fun on your wikibreak, and as long as you don't misrepresent people in a BLP, you won't be hearing from me again. Drmies (talk) 03:38, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow, I did no such thing. I added that section to balance what is basically an attack article. Did you not notice that his views are only discussed in the criticism section? I added a section about black separatism which should have been expanded, not deleted, and sourced it to very high quality academic sources, which are accessible. I have no POV about this, and I am not restoring the edit because I'm not interested in another POV-battle with "established" editors. As for the sources being accessible, I provided full citations. Sorry, but if "established editors" do not follow the policies themselves, I think it is pretty unrealistic to expect new editors to put up with it for long just because they are new. Many new editors have expert knowledge, etc. For example, I studied the civil rights movements in both undergraduate classes and at the graduate level—and I know what a racial separatist is. You have to set the standard you want others to follow. Good night. Seraphim System ( talk ) 05:23, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There is plenty of information about Louis and Black nationalism but making a large change to an article like this one, is best to be brought up on the TP to gain consensus and work out some of the issues without starting an edit war. Please try this approach to smooth the way for added the information.  Thanks - C. W. Gilmore (talk) 12:00, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's fine, i thought it was uncontroversial and that it would be good to add some balance to an overloaded criticsm section - editors are free to improve/correct it. Im not a layperson re equal rights (14th amendment?) so I may have used it assuming its meaning was clear — I dont think a long discussion is needed to fix it, and I dont think it was defamatory. Other content was removed also - more experienced editors are welcome to make the fixes/clarifications they feel are needed or restore it if they want it in the article. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 20:06, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There is nothing about Louis that is 'uncontroversial'. It took two weeks of negotiations on the TP, just to get 'Black Nationalist' added to the lede of this article.  There are almost as many opinions as there is questionable stories about this man and it makes even the smallest change difficult as working on the KKK  article.C. W. Gilmore (talk) 05:40, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The reverted content was sourced to OUP and ABC-CLIO. Half the article is sourced to ADL and SPLC. Were those the only non-questionable sources available? Two advocacy organizations, one of which is currently being sued for actual defamation? Seraphim System ( talk ) 01:37, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my mistake, one of the quotes is also cited directly to the NOI website and polyconomics.com. Several others seem to be cited to the NOI website directly. So what is wrong with an A/V ref to Farrakhan giving a speech? Nothing. It seems like editors don't like this particular quote. That's fine, but it's not a BLP violation. As for discussing it further, maybe later? I don't like to get into controversial discussions without doing some background reading, and I'm not really prepared for a lengthy discussion about this with subject matter experts. Seraphim System ( talk ) 01:45, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Peter Thiel
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018
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Apologies
I didn't make that clear. He's not your sock. Nobody thinks he is. We're pretty sure we know who he is. I also did misread your comment-- apologies for that too. Your comment came at a... very bad time. --Calthinus (talk) 19:55, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's fine, thanks for clearing that up. I get that I didn't explain it very well, I've always supported recognition — I don't know the Russian historiography in detail and I don't read Russian — we are lucky there were editors with enough familiarity that this seems to have been resolved now. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 03:12, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Anatolia
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Please comment on Talk:Hyperion (tree)
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Julius Evola
Hi Seraphim - could you possibly take a look at/intervene in the Julius Evola article?

Looking at the talk page you seemed to have the most rational point of view out of anyone, and there is a group of editors hell bent on retaining the current form of the article via an unacademic source. I don't really have the experience or clout to deal with it.

VeritasVox (talk) 12:32, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't want to revisit the dispute about the lede immediately, Grayfell and I kind of left off with an agreement that the article could use some work in general. I think the dispute about this one line has gone on long enough — it's not just about removing that one sentence, the LEDE doesn't really summarize the article text. Either the article text should change, or a new lede should be proposed, but I don't think that can happen until the article itself is improved. Seraphim System ( talk ) 13:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Alright, I'll have a think about it. Thanks for your input. VeritasVox (talk) 01:21, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Sean Hannity
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Oleg Vinogradov
Check which pages link here, some of them appear completely unrelated (e.g. to an Estonian rower...) The Rambling Man (talk) 10:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War
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DYK for Oleg Vinogradov
— Maile (talk) 01:42, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Precious
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Trouted
You got hit with trout god damn it stop wasting your food

Reverts on Jammu and Kashmir
Please look into the edits a little more before reverting. You had been unintentionally restoring unsourced changes made by Danish.mehraj26. —Gazoth (talk) 16:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not for reviewers to decide the outcome of content disputes in Arbitration areas - the tone of the edit summaries left a lot to be desired. What I told IP was to discuss on the talk page, he edit warred. This isn't something I can resolve by looking in the edits "a little more". I looked into it enough to see that it needs to be discussed on the article talk page. Seraphim System ( talk ) 16:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The editor is obviously new and would not be aware of the conventions on Wikipedia. You could have looked into the cited source and checked the edit history as suggested by the IP editor, regardless of the tone of edit summary. You also removed an additional reliable source added by the IP editor without looking into it just because the editor was edit warring. —Gazoth (talk) 17:09, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't really do anything if editors are not willing to discuss on the talk page. This goes for both of them - we don't say the official language of "Turkish Kurdistan" is Turkish - even though it technically is. We don't use flags in infoboxes for disputed regions, etc. We have a lot of conventions in controversial areas like that that I don't expect new editors are aware of, but it should be common sense that an official government source is not going to be helpful here - even for a new editor, who is trying to improve the article in good faith. Seraphim System ( talk ) 17:22, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * How exactly would a government source be insufficient for official language of the government of Jammu and Kashmir? It would almost be authoritative. The pre-existing source was a government source too. Turkish Kurdistan is not a good example as it is an informal region rather than a state with its own government. What you're saying would apply to Kashmir, not to the article on the internationally recognized state of India, Jammu and Kashmir. Indian government sources are perfectly usable for insignia on Jammu and Kashmir, just as Pakistani government sources would be usable on Azad Kashmir or Gilgit-Baltistan. —Gazoth (talk) 17:49, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * At the end of the conclusion, this user has no idea about Jammu and Kashmir and her status, language, flag and etc. conferred by the Constitution of India and Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir! He/she repeatedly ignored the apply to read the sources and broke three revert rule just because those edits were made by some IP. pathetic !—2A0A:A540:D0C4:0:B081:C4CC:88D4:5786 (talk) 08:11, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

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Editathons
 * There will be a large increase in the number of editathons in June. Please be gentle with new pages that obviously come from good faith participants, especially articles from developing economies and ones about female subjects. Consider using the 'move to draft' tool rather than bluntly tagging articles that may have potential but which cannot yet reside in mainspace.

Paid editing - new policy
 * Now that ACTRIAL is ACREQ, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary. There is a new global WMF policy that requires paid editors to connect to their adverts.

Subject-specific notability guidelines
 * The box at the right contains each of the subject-specific notability guidelines, please review any that are relevant BEFORE nominating an article for deletion.
 * Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves with the new version of the notability guidelines for organisations and companies.

Not English News Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:35, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * A common issue: Pages not in English or poor, unattributed machine translations should not reside in main space even if they are stubs. Please ensure you are familiar with WP:NPPNE. Check in Google for the language and content, tag as required, then move to draft if they do have potential.
 * Development is underway by the WMF on upgrades to the New Pages Feed, in particular ORES features that will help to identify COPYVIOs, and more granular options for selecting articles to review.
 * The next issue of The Signpost has been published. The newspaper is one of the best ways to stay up to date with news and new developments. between our newsletters.

Women in Red June Editathons
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:15, 29 May 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Available Now (May 2018)
Hello Wikimedians! The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for free, full-access, accounts to research and tools as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials on the Library Card platform:
 * Rock's Backpages – Music articles and interviews from the 1950s onwards - 50 accounts
 * Invaluable – Database of more than 50 million auctions and over 500,000 artists - 15 accounts
 * Termsoup – Translation tool

Expansions
 * Fold3 – Available content has more than doubled, now including new military collections from the UK, Australia, and New Zealand.
 * Oxford University Press – The Scholarship collection now includes Electronic Enlightenment
 * Alexander Street Press – Women and Social Movements Library now available
 * Cambridge University Press – Orlando Collection now available

Many other partnerships with accounts available are listed on our partners page, including Baylor University Press, Loeb Classical Library, Cairn, Gale and Bloomsbury.

Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects: sign up today! --The Wikipedia Library Team 18:03, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * You can host and coordinate signups for a Wikipedia Library branch in your own language. Please contact Ocaasi (WMF).
 * This message was delivered via the Global Mass Message tool to The Wikipedia Library Global Delivery List.

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot
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If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please let us know on SuggestBot's talk page. -- SuggestBot (talk) 23:38, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

15:19:27, 15 June 2017 review of submission by TooTallSid
I reread all the suggested Wikipedia pages about article creation. I tuned up my refs and citations. I asked. I understand the respond that I got from worldbruce, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the world of American Zen. This is a small world with an internal reputational system different than that espoused by worldbruce. I reviewed a number of related Zen master Wikipedia pages: They seem to have a comparable level of notability and sources.
 * Dainin Katagiri
 * Shunryū Suzuki
 * Nonin Chowaney
 * James Ishmael Ford
 * Steve Hagen

Is there no place for American Zen in Wikipedia?

16:19:21, 17 June 2017 review of submission by EditorSTW
Hello,

I was wondering why you declined the Save the Water (STW) Wikipedia page submission. If you could provide specific reasons, that would be great!

Suraj

Irish Artist Dylan Walshe
Hey,

Thanks for your feedback. I have added new reference links. They should suffice. The j's again for your time. The Irish Artist is well known internationally, but especially in Ireland.

Thanks

June 2018 GOCE newsletter
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Miguel Cabrera revert
Hello. Yesterday I made an edit to his page where it says....2018 He finished with a .301 batting average, I reverted it to .299 but you didn't accept that. The sources used didn't update his last game and Baseball Reference is reliable and up to the minute with stats. Go to Baseball Reference and it has his 2018 final batting average which is .299. If you agree with me, use Baseball Reference as a source, not the sources that are there now. Also MLB and ESPN also have him at .299. Thank you for your time and have a good week.2601:581:8500:949C:58C:356:57CA:693D (talk) 23:12, 24 June 2018 (UTC) Was done today. Thank you.2601:581:8500:949C:F94A:A139:7F5B:817B (talk) 13:57, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 30
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Dolma, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Raki and Currant ([//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Dolma check to confirm] | [//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Dolma?client=notify fix with Dab solver]).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:19, 30 June 2018 (UTC)