User talk:Sergecross73/Archive 106

Third party source needed for Set Me Free?
By Third Party Source what specifically is needed as a third party source for Set Me Free? Connor Marini (talk) 15:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)


 * A website not connected to the content you're trying to add. For example, if a website like IGN or Gamespot wrote about the fan project stuff. We require that because otherwise the list would be overly long with unimportant examples. WP:VG/S is a good list of examples that will or won't work. Sergecross73   msg me  15:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah ok. Connor Marini (talk) 18:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Infoboxes external links
As Ss112 said here, I have removed the music video links from the infoboxes of other albums, but is an album trailer considered promotional too? ／talk 03:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm technically not aware of an official stance on this, but an album trailer's primary (only?) function is to promote an albums, so probably? Sergecross73   msg me  03:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, will remove it too. ／talk 03:45, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Is the Billboard Japan Top Album Sales not suitable to include in the chart table? Can that only be used as a ref. for a separate sales table? ／talk 13:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not 100% sure. I don't see it at WP:GOODCHART or WP:BADCHART. Usually anything from Billboard is okay unless certain scenarios arise, as seen in the chart at WP:BILLBOARDCHARTS. It's not there either though. You could always ask about it at WT:CHARTS too. Sergecross73   msg me  18:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If I may, Lunar-akaunto the TAS chart is a component chart. If an album hasn't entered the Hot Albums chart, but ranks on any of the component Album charts, then the entry can be included in the table. If the album enters the Hot Albums ranking then none of the component charts should be included. You can use it in a sales table or to support prose in a Commercial performance section. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 19:12, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I don't spend a ton of time with charts stuff. I usually just add one or two to help demonstrate notability, and then let others take it from there. Sergecross73   msg me  19:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you both. I have removed it as well, as you specified. If you don't mind, could you please take a look and check if the chart formatting is okay now? ／talk 10:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Just saw that you have fixed what I'd missed. Thank you for that. ／talk 07:39, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Calling a song a lead single
Hi Serge. Ik there's been plenty of discussion on the topic before, but I'd like some extra clarification if you don't mind. A song was released in Dec 2023 as a digital single. It was a standalone single as it was not stated to be part of any album at the time. Six months later, the artist who released said single announces an upcoming album and the standalone single is included on the tracklist. Is it accurate to write in the lede of the song article that it was released as the lead single from the upcoming album? I feel that this is misleading and incorrect as 1) there was no connection between the two until now and 2) two of the new songs on the album will be released as singles in support of it, one of which has been referred to in reliable secondary news sources as the album's actual lead single. Ik what the lead single WP article says, but it still doesn't feel right to me given the context surrounding this song. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 20:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm going to answer because I once had this doubt too. See, a single is a single; it's self-evident that it was released before an album and certainly, in many cases, does not have any connection with any upcoming albums by the artist. I think the readers would easily understand what you are trying to say even when the lead says from the album because it is listed as a single, don't you think? ／talk 03:11, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, totally forgot about this, will chime in tomorrow. Sergecross73   msg me  03:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * - I agree with your sentiment. I wouldn't call it a "lead single" if, during its initial release, there was zero connection between it and its future album. Lead singles are meant to promote the album, but you can't promote what's non-existent. There's a lot of Wikipedia editors who often see things in black and white and wouldn't understand that nuance though, so I could see getting pushback on it from others, and I'm having a bit of trouble articulating it beyond this... Sergecross73   msg me  18:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your thoughts. Something similar to what I asked about occurred back in 2020 with "Dynamite (BTS song)". We added a single line at the end of the lead indicating it was a standalone single later included on an album. I've taken the same approach on the article of the song that prompted my question to you. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 19:17, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry, I misread your original question. I thought you were saying whether to remove "from the album", as in, "…is a song by artist from the album…" sentence. Sorry for that. It is definitely not appropriate to say it is a lead single from the album if there was no announcement stating the same by the artist. But wait, from this, I have a doubt for myself: when i think about it again, shouldn't from the album mention be only and only used for songs that were released as promotional singles from the album? I have seen some articles that don't use this in the lead but use it in the infobox instead. Isn't that incorrect in itself? ／talk 10:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

For instance, I was referring to Nobody (OneRepublic song). Isn't this incorrect? The song is probably from Kaiju soundtrack, but I removed it at the time because at the time the full track listing was not out. Someone's now added from the album because it was also included in their new album, but at the time of the release, as you said too, there was no connection between the two until now. What do you think about this? ／talk 07:42, 26 June 2024 (UTC) Just found this Template:Infobox song. Since I never created a song article myself, I didn't read this but I thought Template:Infobox song would be similar to Template:Infobox album? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. ／talk 03:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Sega development divisions
How can we organize the pages for the Japanese Sega development divisions?: there are pages for the CS1 (RGG Studio), CS2 (Sonic Team), Fave R&D (Sega AM1, AM2) (and defunct studios like Sega Sports R&D, United Game Artists which have entangled up the former studio names, especially during the 2000s, especially with Hitmaker and Sega Rosso being under the Fave AM1/R&D1 page) However, CS1 & CS2 use their brand names on Wikipedia rather than their official division names (since those names are used whenever Sega is making a Sonic or Like a Dragon/Yakuza game). However on the games that are outside of those brand names, the Sega name is solely used instead. The Japanese Wikipedia has a lot of articles detailing Sega's development studios prior to the Sega Sammy formation (from 2000 to 2004) such as: Amusement Vision, Smilebit, the 2000 incarnation of Sega-AM2, Hitmaker, Sega Rosso and Sega WOW (including Overworks and WOW Entertainment) respectively. If there's any solutions to this, please let me know so we can figure things out. Thanks! VenezuelanSpongeBobFan2004 (talk) 05:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I'd recommend starting a discussion at Talk: Sega and then notifying WT:VG for input, if you wish to pursue this. That said...we have a pretty active group of editors working on Sega related things. I'd be a bit surprised if this was the correct path to take and no one else thought of it before. It's probably the way it is currently for a reason.
 * Semi-related - please stop changing the development field on individual games until you get a WP:CONSENSUS to move forward on this proposal. Sergecross73   msg me  13:22, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Discussions
It might be a slog, but if you do get some free time, would you be able to read over this discussion? Definitely not now, but do you think the argument put up for moving the article has any significance, or is it any valid for later? Now, I do not ask you this, expecting you to be involved in the discussion itself, or that if you do speak about it, I'll go there again. No. But i only ask you this since you have experience in discussions and for a third opinion. Also, if replying or discussing with every person involved is WP:BLUDGEONING, how do we actually discuss? Do we just make our points and move on without actively replying to all the other posters? or does this only apply to the original poster? ／talk 14:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)


 * In my experience, it can be hard to change a consensus when you've got 2 very viable options like this. Considering both are used, both are mentioned prominently in the intro, and either are searchable through WP:REDIRECTs existing, I wouldn't worry about it too much. There appears to be little room for confusion by the reader.
 * As far as bludgeoning goes, some back and forth is completely fine, encouraged even. It usually just a problem when its a lot of responses that are clearly are bogging down the discussion and getting the way of others expressing themselves. Often its an issue if its repetitive and relatively apparent that its not persuading anyone. I personally didn't think it moved into bludgeoning territory in the discussion you linked to. Sergecross73   msg me  13:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Uh-huh, I agree that there's definitely no room for confusion by the readers, but i only jumped in because i thought what the original poster said had some significance and because i did not agree with the reasons for oppose by others. But anyhow, thank you for taking the time to look at it despite it being so long. ／talk 16:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

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