User talk:ShafferKM

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Fiddle  Faddle  17:03, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

When is a page going to be created on Louise C. Murdock and her interior architecture and architecture work at the turn of the twentieth century?

Your submission at Articles for creation: Louise Caldwell Murdock (March 26)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Timtrent was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Fiddle  Faddle  16:58, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Louise Caldwell Murdock has been accepted
 Louise Caldwell Murdock, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Stub-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Worldbruce (talk) 23:41, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
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Louise Caldwell Murdock
Thank you for your contribution of article Louise Caldwell Murdock. I hope you will continue to expand and improve it. A few notes: Worldbruce (talk) 01:13, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Most readers won't know what Queensware is. You don't need to write another article, but a brief description in parentheses would be helpful.
 * By the "Twentieth Club" did you mean the Twentieth Century Club? Can you elaborate on what kind of club it was and why it was important?
 * The infobox mentions the Murdock Theater as one of her buildings, but wasn't that built well after her death - unless there was another by that name? She did work on one of the Crawford Theaters, either the original or the "New" one, both now gone.

John Carl Warnecke
I appreciate what you are trying to do with the article John Carl Warnecke. But adding his father's name (and a bare URL as a citation) to the lead paragraph violates the Wikipedia guidelines on writing the lead, specifically the "accessible overview" and "relative emphasis" guidelines. Adding the Marin City Housing Development project needs to be done carefully, as Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate list of facts. Warnecke did many projects. Which of these are notable? Notability is established under Wikipedia guidelines by having a neutral, published third source say that the project is notable. A newspaper announcement that Warnecke is designing a project does not suffice; what's needed is a source that says "this completed Warnecke project is a notable work". If you can find that source, by all means re-add the project to the list of notable works and provide the citation. - Tim1965 (talk) 23:38, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I read your edit summary about why you believe Carl Warnecke's studying at the Ecoles des Beaux-Arts is important to his son's architectural career, and why you think Carl Warnecke's participation in the firm of Miller & Warnecke is important to his son's career. But none of those sources say that.  Furthermore, if those sources did say that, then such a statement should go into the main body of the article -- and not go into the lead.  Per WP:LEAD, the lead paragraph(s) is for very broad reviews of what is below.  Even if you were correct about the two claims, the lead would not be the appropriate place to mention this.  Instead, it looks as if you are pushing information about Carl I. Warnecke -- which belongs in its own article about this architect (assuming he is notable enough to warrant one).  I know you personally feel that Warnecke working with Aaron Green is enough to make the Marin project notable, but does the citation say so?  No. That makes your claim violate Wikipedia's ban on original research. It is not appropriate to edit war about this. - Tim1965 (talk) 01:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I am not following why an encyclopedia should only mention notable buildings and not all buildings that the architect did that have had an impact on the landscape? The Marin City Housing development would be one of these and leaving it out makes Wikipedia seem like it does a selective history. Also, can I reference print books to cite how the Bauhaus movement grew out of rejection of the Beaux-Arts style (the references to his father, working with his father)This is common knowledge among architectural graduates.ShafferKM (talk) 14:42, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Because Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate list. Architects do hundred of buildings; some, like I.M. Pei or McKim White, do thousands. Most of them are not worth mentioning, but some are. All of the buildings currently in the article are mentioned by published, neutral sources as being notable examples of Warnecke's work. You think the Marin project is important; heck, maybe I agree with you. But what we think is not the rule; the rule in Wikipedia is no personal assessments; only claims supported by published, neutral soruces. So to include the work, a source saying "Warnecke's Marin project is notable" is important. Notability can come in a number of ways. Maybe it is good/poor design. Maybe it is good/poor siting. Maybe it is a good/poor contextual fit. Some published source must say "Warnecke's Marin project was notable because..." I'm not sure what that point of talking generally about the Bauhaus movement is. What does it have to do with Warnecke?  I think we'd still need a source that says "John Carl Warnecke reacted negatively to the Beaux-Arts movement and designed Bauhaus".  We can't automatically assume that because Bauhaus emerged as a reaction to Beaux-Arts that Warnecke did the same. (Maybe he just liked Bauhaus? Maybe he wanted to suck up to his peers who also liked Bauhaus? We need something specific to Warnecke, and can't make our own inferences.) There are articles about Bauhaus on Wikipedia; general statements go there. We need claims backed by sources specific to Warnecke. - Tim1965 (talk) 15:28, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I will stop trying to correct this page and use my print books(I was treating as a factual encyclopedia entry, not a discrimative list of facts), but there is a mistake that should be fixed - his father was an architect in Oakland, California, not San Francisco.ShafferKM (talk) 21:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I see that. But even the PCAD University of Washington entry for Carl Warneck lists Draftsman, San Francisco Board of Architects Exposition Company; Draftsman, Bakewell and Brown, San Francisco; designer, John J. Donovan, Oakland; Miller and Warnecke, Oakland; Warnecke and Warnecke, San Francisco. It seems he worked in both places, with his office 34 years in Oakland and his work or office 23 years in San Francisco.  Much as my family in Oakland and the Bay Area hate it, lots of media conflate Oakland and San Francisco... - Tim1965 (talk) 23:51, 21 May 2015 (UTC)