User talk:Shino Baku/ban

Some people think Shino Baku is user:Lir. Others don't. And some (most?) don't care. It was always thus.

Raised on the wikiEN-l mailing list too
 * by James Duffy
 * by mav (I think
 * by Danny
 * by Eloquence

There is a very strong and growing suspicion among myself, 172 and Montrealais (and a growing number of others) that the multiple banned user Adam/Bridget/Lir/Vera Cruz/Susan Mason/Dietary Fiber is back again *sigh* as user:Shino Baku. Last night Shino engaged in a series of edits and exchanges that people found strikingly similar to Adam. Initially constructive comments were made. Then they became more and more extreme, deliberately misrepresenting other people's views. Ludicrously nonsensical statements were made to provoke people. Patently absurd edits were done and claims made. Most strikingly, in classic Susan Mason style, Shino let a row rage and sort itself out, then just as it was dying, tried to re-ignite it by writing a provocative statement written n the first person singular on a user page. Shino's words were practically identical to what Susan used to say. The only difference in the two sentences was the topic. The rest was word for word what Susan said in identical situations. The moment everyone saw the two lines, it immediately rang a bell and everyone reached the same conclusion and simultaneously entered each other's pages to say what their suspicions were. A review of Shino's edits showed striking similarities to Adam's past identities' edit patterns, both in terms of topics and the sheer volume of sudden entries. When others heard the suspicions, they too said that something had been troubling them about Shino but they had not been able to put their finger on it until the suggestion was made but that now that thought about it Shino's behaviour was eerily reminiscent of how Lir, Vera Cruz, Susan Mason and Dietary Fiber acted and what they said. This user is worth keeping an eye on at an absolute minimum. The last thing wiki needs is yet another Adam family member trolling around the place, day by day getting worse, doing more damage, causing more edit wars and trying to provoke rows (usually on any page 172 has worked on). ÉÍREman 14:51 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

On many different sites Jtdirl|ÉÍREman, Tannin, and I demonstrate that Shino Baku is the banned Lir/Vera, whom I believe was banned somewhere around seven times. 172


 * 172 - I've yet to see a "demonstration" - only accusations. Perhaps you could compile a list of your evidence to, say here, and then link to it where appropriate? That would allow me to judge the evidence for myself, should I ever find myself in contact with Shino Baku. Thanks. Martin 02:33 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)
 * Martin, please don't be lazy. It's much better to look at SB's user contributions and come to your own conclusions rather than to rely on a possibly slanted summary of the evidence from someone else. -- Derek Ross 02:38 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)
 * I was certainly not going to rely on 172's evidence. I just felt that I wished to see it. If it's been "demonstrated" on "many different sites" then it should be easy for 172 to provide such evidence in a compact and easily readable form. If the above statement is hyperbole then 172 should retract it. Either way, I'm happy. Martin 12:16 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)
 * Two reasons that Shino might not be Lir: First, Shino doesn't commit the same habitual typos and spelling quirks in talk pages that Lir does. Second, Shino doesn't seem obsessed with the same topics that Lir was.  Not definitive, but circumstantial. -º¡º

I see more evidence on the 'identity' of Shino Baku has been placed by yet another person on the wiki list, about how some of SB's edits pick up almost to the word from Lir edits, showing a remarkable decree of uniformity of thought. Very interesting. BTW I see Shino on the Communist state debate is displaying one of Susan Mason's most infuriating characteristics. Susan would express an opinion, presumably hoping everyone would disagree with 'her', as most did with most of 'her' work. On a couple of occasions I agreed with her on things, on one occasion disagreeing with Zoe over something Susan had said. Susan then did an about turn and took up the exact opposite stance. I see SB has done a classic SM about turn on Cs. The Lir-ical similarities grow by the hour. Spooky. The irony is that if only Adam would behave himself and stop acting the ejjit, whatever his past he would be more than welcome on wiki. I tried to make peace with SM. I was initially quite impressed by DF's edits (so much so that when some pointed out who s/he was, my response was 'so what? If they are co-operative and helpful this time, let them stay'). But then things slipped back to old ways. And SB has done some good work. If only they would work with people and not constantly stir up fights, there would be no problem irrespective of who they are. But instead they seem to be someone who cant let a sleeping dog lie. Instead they have a bizzarre urge to go over to every sleeping dog and give it an almighty boot up the arse. Then run home, change clothes and think the dog isn't going to notice them the next time around if they pretend to be someone else. It is all such a pity that a person with clear talent cannot devote it to working with wiki not working against people on it. ÉÍREman 03:47 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)

SB = SM = VC. 172, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Now that you bring the idea to my attention, it seems obvious. Tannin

Lir/Vera/Dietary/Susan/Adam is back (I think). It's time to take a good look at Shino Baku. Look at the comments on my talk page: "I don't think China is a communist state, I think its a socialist state."

The comments are eerily reminiscent of the banned contributor, who looked at facts and disagreed with the first person. Also look at the large number of contributions in a short period of time and similar interests. 172

OH. I was just coming to tell you the good news. 172 and I both received the same conclusion separately the moment we saw the above line. It was so eerily reminiscent of Susan et al. And like Susan, Shino has a tendency to have moments of reasonableness followed by hours of provocation. And like Susan he has a tendency to wait until an issue is solved then jump back ten paces and start it all over again. The 'socialist state' crap had long finished in tonight's godawful debate. Even Sirub had abandoned it, and just like the past faces of Adam, Shino jumped in again to open it all up just when it seemed definitively over. Like Susan, this user goes out of his way to make stupid statements, like how 'nation' is the same as 'government' (the sort of political science mistake that wouldn't just get you failed, your professor would put you in front of a firing squad for it.) A couple of times during the debate I tonight I found myself wondering could anyone be this dumb (and apparently getting dumber by the second!). Once the above line appeared on 172's page, I had my answer. It is the latest of the Children of Lir, acting as each of Adam's alter egos has done before. Screwing around, messing with facts, making provocative claims that are so dumb they have to be a put on, chasing up articles 172 has worked on to screw them over. Oh well. I guess Wiki's version of Saddam Hussein is back. ÉÍREman 06:30 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

I find Zoe to be over-eager to censor and delete things. Shino Baku


 * And you, of course, would know, since you've been banned in many incarnations because of your failure to be collegial. -- Zoe

Perhaps U.S. state could be moved to US state? Shino Baku


 * Or perhaps not. -- Zoe


 * Why would we move it, that already redirects here? -º¡º


 * Because Shino Baku is really Lir/cast of thousands, who is always trying to rename things in order to cause the most havoc imagineable. -- Zoe


 * Ok, got it, didn't know. -º¡º

Lir/Vera/Dietary/Susan/Adam is back (I think). It's time to take a good look at Shino Baku. Look at the comments on my talk page: "I don't think China is a communist state, I think its a socialist state."

The comments are eerily reminiscent of the banned contributor, who looked at facts and disagreed in the first person. Also look at the large number of contributions in a short period of time and the similar interests (anarchism's there!). It's also no coincidence that he's targeting this talk page since we are his favortie targets along with Zoe. 172

Hey! Great minds think alike! I see on my talk page that you came to this conclusion independently at around the same time. 172

Doh! Why didn't I think of that? Obvious now that you mention it. Tannin

I am arguing that the term Ccommunist should be replaced by a new expression, as communism is a controversial and connotated topic, and furthermore, differentiation by upper/lower case is not very effective. Shino Baku

I don't think China is a communist state, I think its a socialist state. Shino Baku

Heh heh. It is like a Monty Python sketch. Now Shino as to find a new expression. Yippee. The entire political science world has one expression, Shino on wiki another. I know. Lets abandon two thousand years of academic theories about politics all together and let Shino design the whole thing from scratch!!! And of course capitalisation is not very effective, which is why no-one in the world uses it!!!! So while we are at it, he can redesign the entire english language too. *sigh* It is like trying to teach a cat to water-ski backwards! ÉÍREman 05:47 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

Given the stubborn flat-earth style residence to facts, the tendency to slip back to old arguments even after their proponents of them have admitted they were wrong, Shino's style of argument has striking similarities to Adam. Don't tell me that troll from hell has reared his ugly ego again!!! ÉÍREman 05:47 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

As a new member, how do you know that "Adam" is a troll, given that Adam using his own name hasn't been on wiki for many months, and even his most recent banned version ''Susan Mason/Dietary Fiber" supposedly predated your arrival. But then a lot of members have noted the striking similarities with your contributions, particularly that one on 172's talk page, and the various past Adam creations. Interesting parallels. ÉÍREman 22:42 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

Who said I was a new member? From above -- "Shino's style of argument has striking similarities to Adam. Don't tell me that troll from hell has reared his ugly ego again!!!" Do you think Im blind jtdirl? In any case, Im glad you agree that China is a republic and hopefully this dispute is now resolved. Shino Baku

You did, so you can stop your innocent act and the standard Adam act of twisting comments, which as you should know by now is a dead giveaway. Your first contribution was on the 21st of April. Susan Mason's last one before being banned was on the 13th April, as was Dietary Fiber's. (Both were banned on the 14th) Or as you remembering your past wiki 'lives'? As with all past personas, you've been rumbled.ÉÍREman 23:06 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

Can we stop the Lir sightings paranoia please and grant people the benefit of the doubt? This type of activity has the potential to spin out of control and become McCarthyistic. --mav


 * I debated whether to anonymise Shino's comments and eventually decided to do so. While nothing's been proved, the evidence seemed compelling enough to take this minor step. My apologies to Shino if this is a case of mistaken identity. Martin