User talk:Shirulashem/Archives/2009/April

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVII (March 2009)
The March 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Let me return it to you also then :)
http://www.vosizneias.com/29814/2009/04/02/jerusalem-mirrer-rosh-yeshiva-if-you-see-someone-with-internet-in-his-house-you-must-rebuke-him/ ;). As for me, I think I'm going to focus on other issues first. --Piz d&#39;Es-Cha (talk) 07:50, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Best wishes for a Chag Kasher V'Sameach
We haven't crossed paths too frequently in the recent past, but it was my pleasure to revert the vandlaism. Best wishes to you, Klal Yisrael and all of Wikipedia for a Chag Kasher V'Sameach. Alansohn (talk) 00:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Israel article
Thanks for your note. The article itself was an FA article; in my view the de-listing was mostly based on politics rather than writing. That would still leave it as at least an A class article. Jayjg (talk) 03:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

User page help
Hey, can you help me set up my home page because I have been having problems trying to set it up? Keri Marie Davis (talk) 12:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure! When you are on your talk page, on the top tabs, the left-most tab should say "user" and be red. Click on that tab and it will bring you to the page to edit your user page. You can start with as little or as much as you want. You can go to this page to get more detailed info on what you can include on your page. You might want to start by putting in some userboxes. Good luck! Let me know if you have any other questions.  shirulashem     (talk)   18:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, How can I put in the userboxes? Because I really don't know how to. Keri Marie Davis (talk) 14:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * First take a look at the userbox gallery and find one that you like. Then take a look at this page for instructions on how to group them. Let me know if you want me to start it off for you.  shirulashem     (talk)   16:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I think I would appreciate it if you could start it off for me please. Thanks.  Keri Marie Davis (talk) 18:07, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Done.  shirulashem     (talk)   20:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, Thank you so much!! Keri Marie Davis (talk) 14:15, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Question
Your tag "Die Benutzer iz a Litvisher Yid" seems to indicate to me you're a Chabad Yid without saying it in so many words. Would this be an accurate/fair conclusion? Impressive wiki resume! Thanks, warshytalk 15:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Chabad? No. I'm litvish as opposed to chassidish. Chabad is chassidish. See this article. חג כשר ושמח!  shirulashem     (talk)   20:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, the article does mention Chabad as being from Lithuanian origin, and other modern Chabad controversies in Lithuania too. Thanks for the clarification. חג כשר ושמח to you too. I immediately assumed Chabad because they are known to use modern technology (such as internet and IT) for their proselytist/missionary goals. I had never encountered a Litvak Yeshiva bocher that was so advanced in technology as you seem to be. To what Litvak Yeshiva/Rabbi court do you belong? Are there many people like you in that Yeshiva, or in other Litvak Yeshivos that use internet and wiki technology as you do? Do they use it for religious purposes too? (Such, as for example, to comepete with Chabad?). If I look/sound too curious in an invasive/nagging manner with so many questions, I apologize. It is not my intention to be invasive or nagging. I am just a curious student of historical and actual/current social and cultural trends in Judaism. Are you in Israel or in the US? Nice meeting you here, have a nice Pesach break.warshytalk 14:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm in the US. In the Orthodox world, "Litvish" typically means misnaged (non-Hasidic Orthodox). Also, at least in the US, Litvaks typically don't have a specific "court" as you asked about, like the Hasidim who have a rebbe. As far as internet, I don't know how many yeshiva bochurim use it. I'm well out of yeshiva, so I wouldn't even be able to make an educated guess.  shirulashem     (talk)   16:39, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Somehow your reply to my questions escaped me, and I did not see it until now, by chance, because of other general edits you just did to the page. Thanks a lot for your reply and for your explanations. I won't push the envelope anymore. As I said, I am still very impressed with your wiki resume/credentials, and I will only say it was nice to make your quick acquaintance here. We may be seeing each other around here again sometime, so "nitraeh besmachot" (I haven't gotten around to configuring my keyboard for Hebrew yet).--warshytalk 15:34, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Durban Review Conference - "Government Boycotts"
You wrote:

''FYI, I think you did a very good job making these edits on the Durban Review Conference article. It cleared things up nicely.  shirulashem     (talk)   12:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)''

Thanks. I figured this design would provide more clarity. I've been putting a lot of work into this article over the past few days to keep it comprehensive and up-to-date. I'm glad my efforts are appreciated. (Hyperionsteel (talk) 22:12, 21 April 2009 (UTC))

Your userbox
Congratulations on making such a nice userbox. I removed it from the page Category:Orthodox Jewish Wikipedians, because Orthodox Judaism is less than Haredi Judaism, as you can see in these articles. Your userbox was a little too "black" there, if you understand my meaning. Debresser (talk) 00:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, should it be in Category:Wikipedian Mitnagdim? Debresser (talk) 00:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliment. Yes, it should definitely be in Category:Wikipedian Mitnagdim, and I've now put it there. I didn't even realize it existed. ישר כח.  shirulashem     (talk)   12:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Have a look at Category:Wikipedian Mitnagdim... And check your userbox again to see how it should have been fixed (I admit, it is very technical). Debresser (talk) 12:48, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Both categories apply. I don't think it's accurate that "Orthodox Judaism is less than Haredi Judaism". Orthodox Judaism is the broad category under which comes Haredi, Modern Orthodox, etc. See the opening sentence of Haredi Judaism: "Haredi Judaism is the most theologically conservative form of Orthodox Judaism." Thus, for example, Rav Elazar Shach, z"l was both a Litvak/Misnagged and, of course, Orthodox. The reason you need both categories is because they are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to be Orthodox and not a misnagged (e.g., Chassidim) and, although we don't acknowledge it in the frum world, it's technically possible to be a misnagged and not Orthodox, (e.g., Conservative Jews who consider themselves descendants of the misnagged philosophy). I'm curious if you disagree.  shirulashem     (talk)   14:24, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I definitely do. Disagree, that is. Chassidim and Mitnagdim both are ultra-orthodox, while Orthodox Jews are "just" orthodox. I see now that Wikipedia doesn't make that disctinction. That's fine with me, in theory. But I personally wouldn't want to be called by the name of "orthodox" alone. Debresser (talk) 15:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, I maintain that you are mistaken. Forgive me for being persistent, but I want to make sure there's no misinformation out there. And don't take just my word for it. Ask your rov. Or, take a look at some sources:, , , Chabad, , , Union of Orthodox Rabbis (a.k.a. Agudath Harabbonim, not to be confused with the OU). And if you don't want to believe them, take a look at what your own Chabad's website states in response to the FAQ Is Chabad "Ultra-Orthodox?":
 * {| class="wikitable" border="1"


 * Chabad is referred to as an "Orthodox" Jewish movement because it adheres to Jewish practice and observance within the guidelines of Talmudic law and its codifiers. The prefix “ultra” is commonly used by media broadcasters, but it has no practical meaning. It is used to marginalize a group or to portray them as extremists battling with extremists of other religions. (http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/776104/jewish/Chabad-FAQs.htm#UltraOrthodox)
 * } shirulashem     (talk)   16:09, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If the word "ultra-orthodox" has a negative sound to it, either in the subjective perspective of some or even generally accepted, then use the word "haredi" instead.
 * Maybe haredi is the same as Orthodox. From what you write here it would certainly seem so. In theory. But I remember my first rov, who is American, telling me - this was in Holland - that in America many among those who call themselves "orthodox", do not live up to that word. Which is why I have always called myself either "ultra-orthodox" or "haredi" ever since.
 * There is story about the Rebbe. This was in pre-war France. The rebbetzin was asked to fill out a form, and in it she was to state her religious affiliation. She wrote "Jewish" (Juive). When the Rebbe found out about this, he went and changed it to "orthodox jewish". I've seen a copy of this form myself. Debresser (talk) 17:37, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The bottom line is that the template is yours. Although you gave up all rights to it when saving the page, it is commonly accepted to respect other people's right to do whatever they want on their userpages. If I thought the template were "wrong", I'd remove it from the category pages. I myself would prefer to make templates as specific as possible. Therefore I wouldn't add more than the category Wikipedian Mitnagdim.
 * Please note that according to Wikipedia guidelines you should not add the category Category:Jewish Wikipedians e.g., because that is in the parental tree of Wikipedian Mitnagdim. But since Category:Orthodox Jewish Wikipedians is not, I see no reason to make changes to the template. Debresser (talk) 17:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I think I see where the misunderstanding is. Yes, it is true that not all people who call themselves Orthodox are, in fact, 100% shomer torah u'mitzvos. Nonetheless, all organizations, shuls, etc. that are Charedi definitely call themselves Orthodox, not ultra. The reason they don't use the word Charedi is because it's not English. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by not adding Category:Jewish Wikipedians, since I never did that. But, at the end of the day, our little machloikes was all lshem Shomayim anyway so we're all good.  shirulashem     (talk)   18:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it seems we agree that theory and practise might not be the same. About the Category:Jewish Wikipedians, that was just an example of an "wrong" category. Just so that you should know the Wikipedia guideline, with no implication to the present template. Debresser (talk) 20:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Sigh in Swedish..
is actually called "suck". I guess you took it as vandalism by slentrian, so I'm reverting your.. reversion? Sorry about my language, english is only my second language --90.130.212.166 (talk) 00:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC) (flinga on svwp).
 * You're right! Funny. Thanks for pointing it out and sorry for the misunderstanding.  shirulashem     (talk)   00:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's perfectly understandable. ;) (not much of a topic for an article, thouh.. well well) --90.130.212.166 (talk) 00:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Durban Review Conference
If you go to the talk page, you would see that having said content on the page is disputed. I meant to hit undo, but clicked rollback by mistake. I agree that it didnt meet the criteria for vandalism, but it is/may be biased material, which does meet the criteria. Thanks, Ono (talk) 01:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries. It's just one of my pet peeves.  shirulashem     (talk)   12:15, 30 April 2009 (UTC)