User talk:Shuki/Archive3

Kiryat Gat
I'd have no objection to going back to the stable version of the Kiryat Gat article, where each of the observers is mentioned and adequate references are provided. The undue weight came about because some editors believed the events were of dubious provenance. But it would be ridiculous indeed not to mention the internationally recognised legal position and what happened to the inhabitants. PalestineRemembered 07:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the current KGat version is acceptable and especially since the city was formed in 1955 and not in 1948 on top of the previous village, there is absolutely no need for a Faluja subsection in the KGat article beyond the short mention. Faluja deserves it's own article. --Shuki 20:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Over at House demolitions you've supported redirect/merge of two articles, one of 35K and another of either 9K or 17K. And yet here, you're suggesting splitting an article of only 6.5K. Would you care to explain this puzzling inconsistency? PalestineRemembered 21:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Size rarely affects my judgement of whether to merge or split an article. What is important is if an entity is worthy of having a seperate article, even a stub to start, rather than being lumped into another article. Articles about house demolitions, checkpoints, and other local issues don't have to be taken out of context of general articles. --Shuki 22:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

netzarim
i left you a reply here: User_talk:Jaakobou.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  16:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * i replied again. (link).  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  19:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Claims of OR
You have to stop reverting so many edits claiming OR when they are not. My contribution to List of newspapers in Israel adding Yisrael HaYom was based on an article in Haaretz. Number  5  7  11:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Anarchists Against the Wall
Shuki, that section has four references in it, yet you claim it doesn't cite references. I would suggest adding fact tags to specific statements, or leaving it alone. Murderbike 19:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was mentioning the following section. I'll fix. Thanks. --Shuki 19:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

That makes more sense. Cheers! Murderbike 19:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of Chinese apartheid AfD
Following your recent participation in Articles for deletion/Allegations of French apartheid, you may be interested to know that a related article, Allegations of Chinese apartheid, is currently being discussed on AfD. Comments can be left at Articles for deletion/Allegations of Chinese apartheid. -- ChrisO 16:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

HaKibbutz Dati
In case you want to comment, I have done an RM to Religious Kibbutz Movement as a move over redirect was blocked. Number  5  7  08:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone was kind enough to do the move without the need for debate. Seeing as the article has been renamed, what do you think about renaming Category:Kibbutz Dati to Category:Religious Kibbutz Movement? Number   5  7  14:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Too fast for me. The cat should be renamed as well. Thanks for handling it. --Shuki 20:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries. The CfD page is here. Number   5  7  08:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Population statistics for Israeli West Bank Outposts
How can I improve the article???? Axxn 08:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Category:Jews in Ottoman and British Palestine
Hi Shuki. I was going through this category the other day, and noticed that a lot of Rabbis (such as Meir ben Judah Leib Poppers) do not appear to have been sorted properly. However, as I have no idea which bit of some of the long names one is supposed to sort by, I was wondering if you could do it as you seem to do quite a lot of work on Rabbis. Whilst I am not expecting you to change your vote, I wonder if you could clarify how my page moves were OR. Thanks, Number   5  7  11:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not so sure about the convention about rabbis. The OR was in your insisting that when you were in Israel, that was your experience (the names of the holidays). I don't see a reason to change my vote now anyways. I like your work but I really think the nomination could have waited longer, sorry if it does not succeed, and if it does I'll wish you a b'hatzlacha nonetheless. I really think it is just too soon and I am sorry if WP hands out adminship like this to others. There should be a much longer 'aging' process. --Shuki 18:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, no worries. Do you know who would know about Rabbis? Being pedantic, that kind of thing bugs me :) Number   5  7  20:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Try IZAK. He's one of the more intense Judaism contributors. --Shuki 20:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Yasser Arafat peer review
Greetings Shuki, I have dropped in to ask of you to review the Yasser Arafat article. Scartol and I have been working on the article endlessly to expand, verify and reference, copyedit and to keep an NPOV. We thought it would be a good idea to get members of the Israel wiki:project with a history of hard work and NPOV editing to overview it to make sure the article is fair. Any points that you want to bring up can be discussed here: WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Yasser Arafat --Al Ameer son 21:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoops
Crossposted, just in case you took my page off your watchlist already: Actually, after a second look at your inquiry, I can only suppose I read it wrong the first time, and I apologize for that. I'll have to admit, though, that nearly every other time someone has used the term "motive" in regard to something I did, it's been a pretty obvious jab at me. I jumped too quickly to conclusions this time. -- RG2 00:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

List of massacres during the Second Intifada
Talk:List of massacres during the Second Intifada Looking for outside input into a long-term controversy over the naming and scope of this list. As you participated in the afd, please help us out. Thanks. &lt;&lt;-armon-&gt;&gt; 11:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Shlomo Aviner
Links to attack sites and so are not allowed. You must know that you violated BLP? Lobojo (talk) 20:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Surely you know that some factual controversial information in the article is referenced to that site which has documents scanned to prove it. Surely you know that the other video link is also a reference to another controverisal claim. Surely you know that the first paragraph of BLP recommends unilaterally removing material, but later on there is a paragraph about criticism. Anyway, I myself removed one link that was not a debate but rather some seperate video clips of Rabbi Aviner and lengthy rebuttal by another Rabbi. Please take your reservations to the discussion page. --Shuki (talk) 21:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

IDF Chief Military Rabbis
Hi Shuki: In looking at the IDF's Military Rabbinate article, only Chief Military Rabbi Shlomo Goren has an article. Articles are still needed for rabbis:


 * Mordechai Peron (1968-1977),
 * Gad Navon (1977-2000),
 * Israel Weiss (2000-2006),
 * Avichai Rontzki (2006- ).

Happy Chanukah! Thanks, IZAK (talk) 14:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Category
I thought of creating the English version of he:קטגוריה:יישובים עבריים שנחרבו במלחמת העצמאות, and then i saw that you already started doing something like it.

I think that the solution in the Hebrew Wikipedia is better. Putting them all together is humanistic, but separate categories can be useful. What do you think? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Web2Sport
I've cleaned up the article - it's now about the football club itself (Hapoel Kiryat Shalom F.C.), which I believe is the more notable topic. пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  23:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Shuki (talk) 23:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Shluhot carrots.jpg
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Hi
No, Shuki I'm not trying to intimidate any one. Sorry about my strong reaction, it's just that I was extremely bothered by your repeated deletion of my reference to the legality of Nokdim (Zionist settlemnets) in the West Bank and the removal of the "Iranian threat" section of Jpost. It seemed to me that your edits were politically and religiously based. And then I was also bothered by the fact that you still deleted my entry even when, in a bid to make it more neutral, I incorporated the Zionist point of view. And why is the term Zionist OR? Don't you consider yourself a Zionist?George Al-Shami (talk) 00:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am deleting your mention of 'occupied' and 'illegal' because they are vague and indirect terms used on the vast majority of settlements. Gilo, on the other hand, actually has direct media references to a claim of confiscation. In fact, the mention of UN resolution declaring settlements illegal does not seem to be hold when the land is bought privately by Jews and settled or does it? And unless a specific settlement is discussed in depthby the media, I don't think it is accurate to use the blanket 'illegal' term. Nokdim isn't the place for that discussion. Many others have discussed this forever over on Israeli settlement, and certainly, you and me are not going to settle any disagreements over WP consensus on our own. And about Zionist, it is a broad term that many in Israel do not accept anymore. There is absolutely no way to call a settlement zionist unless I suppose it can be proven that this is in village charter or something. I can imagine a few that would specifically disagree with that term, but that is my OR so it's not going to help to put it in an article. --Shuki (talk) 21:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Haaretz
Hi. Would you take a look at some of the recent edits concerning the editorial view of Haaretz and the discussion concerning the sources at Talk:Haaretz. Since you've made a fairly large number of edits to the article, I'd appreciate your views on the matter. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 20:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:IsraelDiscountBank.jpg
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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:IsraelDiscountBank2.jpg
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Your notice on J.J. Goldberg page
Hello. You placed a notice on the J.J. Goldberg page that I recently added. I noticed that he redlinked on an article, so I added a page for him - there are three fairly prominent J. Goldberg's who are all authors so I thought it worth having them all in WP to prevent confusion. Rather than trying to write a biography for him, I included a portion of his biography page at the Newspaper he is an editor for (The Forward in NYC) and left a citation to that page. Can you explain why you have a problem with that? If you can flesh out his biography or have any other info to add to his page, please do so. Thank you, Jgui (talk) 22:17, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello again. You haven't responded so I've had to guess at what your concern is. I assume you didn't see the citation (it was at the bottom of the block quote) so I moved it to the top with the source. This mini bio is coming from his masthead page at his employer (The Forward); it is accurately cited; it is not copyrighted and is available under fair use. It is intended as a placeholder until someone has the time to collect info from multiple sources; I also added a us-writer-stub tag to make this clear and to attract other editors - I certainly encourage you to add any info you have. NB: this is the first page I have added, so perhaps there is some rule against citing a bio; if so please let me know what specific issue you have. Thank you, Jgui (talk) 09:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no free use of the bio. At the bottom of the page is the standard "Copyright © 2007 Forward Association, inc". Besides, it might be seen as simply avoiding rules of WP:BLP by 'merely citing' (an elegant copy&paste). This is not a quote being cited but a chunk of an alternate article. And I don't buy the placeholder reason; either it's a complete bio, left as a stub, or written properly in the first place. --Shuki (talk) 23:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Shuki, I don't understand your apparent hostility. And I don't think I said I was 'merely citing' - those are your words not mine. Are you interested in writing a bio for him - if so please feel free to do so. Let me reiterate my reason for creating this page: there are three publishing J. Goldberg's and this can (and does) lead to confusion - the other two have WP pages but this one did not. If you don't like what I've added to the page, then please modify it in any way you wish. Please let me know what your goal is. Do you disagree that he should have a WP page? Are you trying to get the page removed? Or are you simply noting that the page should be improved when someone has the time? If the latter, then I think we are agreed, otherwise we should discuss this further. Thank you, Jgui (talk) 14:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hostility? I've actualy been holding back. My goal is to improve WP and trying to keep a minimal standard of writing. The onus is not on me to write articles for you, there's actually another page where you can request this. But if you try to write an article, you can't just put up anything you want and then expect others to improve it. I do not disagree that Jonathan should have a page, if an editor of a significant newspaper deserves an article than fine with me. If I wanted to get the page removed, there are accepted ways. I could have put up a couple of other warnings that would have got the attention of experienced admins who would have decided to delete or not on the spot. We can invite others to the discussion as well. Again, there is no such thing on WP as copy&pasting material and waiting for someone else to do the work. I have no interest of writing anything about Jonathan. The way I see it, the whole copy&paste section should either be done properly or deleted until you can improve it. There's no point in copy&pasting material to WP that already exists someone else, especially if it is a violation of copyright. --Shuki (talk) 19:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Elkana - mixed?
Shuki, What percentage on secular families would make a yishuv mixed? 1%? 5%? 30%? I believe the percentage in Elkana is maybe 3-4%. I grew up in Elkana. My parents still live there. Happy138 (talk) 22:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would assume that if it isn't entirely and explicitly 'secular' (Migdalim) or entirely religious (Revava), than it is mixed. If non-religious people can move in, than it is mixed. Maybe a better term could be found to describe 'no filtering committee'. The thing started when a discussion arose about the need to add sub-cats to 'Israeli settlement'. Some users argue that it is a poor division. --Shuki (talk) 19:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Your opinon on this
Greetings, there is a discussion about project tagging on the WP:Palestine page here. --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hebrew naming conventions
Hi, some recent discussions have been taking place at WP:HE, and I thought I'd notify you that the page is still active, and I think we are very close to reaching a final guideline. Please comment there if you wish. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Tel HaShomer
Please see my comments on the issue. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Nahal Charedi
This page is a mistake, it should be a redirect to Netzah Yehuda Battalion. Ok if I make that change? --Historian2 (talk) 07:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, it will save some bureacracy too. --Shuki (talk) 23:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Methuen youth hockey.jpg)
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Micky Rosenfeld
I do not understand your logic for voting to delete this article. Have you done a google search? Have you done a google news search? This man is mentioned in Israeli and world newspapers nearly every single day. How on earth does that qualify him as being non notable? Please explain. Stanley011 (talk) 06:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Pro-Israel
I have tagged the article for deletion, but I can't manage to put it on the Afd list. Could you try? thanks. -- Nudve (talk) 04:28, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Benji Hillman
Wow, I didn't know there was an article on him! One of my soldiers in prison was a soldier of Hillman's, who was in the prison when Hillman died. He cried a lot and wasn't allowed to go to the burial ceremony, so the name Hillman will stick with me for a long time. Unfortunately, that doesn't make him notable for Wikipedia. Thanks for notifying WP:ISRAEL of this deletion. Won't you vote on the AfD yourself? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:17, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes NN on WP, but there are some articles which emotionally I can't suggest delete, I think it's obvious anyway. The foundation is also probably NN. --Shuki (talk) 19:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Beit shean valley.jpg
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Jinsafut
See Talk:Jinsafut for your recent addition of verifiability tags in the article. Cheers! --Al Ameer son (talk) 22:20, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

please check Israeli support for Iran during the Iran-Iraq war
--Ebudswenson (talk) 22:11, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Shaarei Shomayim Page
Hi Shuki! I'm wondering why most of the information was removed from the Shaarei Shomayim page? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Computermorah (talk • contribs) 20:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it was virtually copy&paste from the synagogue website, or otherwise as if someone personally wrote the history of the establishment. Please read WP:COPYVIO and WP:OR. --Shuki (talk) 21:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Film in Sderot
I think anyone following the situation in Sderot would be interested that a filmaker with a proven track record and funding has a crew there making a movie. Certainly the Forward found it interesting enough to write up, even before her current film was released and began to draw attention.Elan26 (talk) 18:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)Elan26
 * It's only a film. Many movies were filmed during, or as a result of many world events, but there's nothing notable about them. Can you find a similar notable mention of a movie elsewhere? --Shuki (talk) 20:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Almost every American university and most towns have a section on their wikipedia page devoted to films that used them as a set.   These mentions appear during filming, long before release, because people get excited when their town or church or whatever is used in a film.  Check out some individual Manhattan apartment buildings like The Dakota, or The Ansonia, or Harvard or Oberlin College Elan26 (talk) 22:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)Elan26

The return to zion
hi shuli - how are you?

i have translated the article of "The return to zion" from hebrew - and they put it in a different article from "Kibutz galuyot" ("gathering of Israel" - i have just added the link to the Hebrew article to this "Kibutz galuyot" - in English )

The difference is that the gathering of Israel is the promise of returning (and exile)- and the return to zion is just one of the fullfillment of the return (there was also exile and return after the distruction of the second temple) and so many other returns.

this is the root of all Aliya and zionism - as well as a known term by itself, that many books have been wrriten about.

see the link i've provided, in hebrew to the article of "gathering of israel")

thanX!

--Shevashalosh (talk) 05:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

?? --Shevashalosh (talk) 07:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

?? --Shevashalosh (talk) 10:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I hope to get back to you after the holiday. --Shuki (talk) 12:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * when you do that, Discuss this with me there --> Talk:The Return to Zion
 * --Shevashalosh (talk) 14:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I have posted you a new message at Talk:The Return to Zion - please respond there.


 * --Shevashalosh (talk) 13:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ?? --Shevashalosh (talk) 11:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yad Binyamin
Hi Shuki saw your edits on the Yad Binyamin article - I don't undersand why you chopped out almost everything and only left in a gush katif reference...? If you have specific points then please raise them rather than just deleting everything. As I live there, I am also pretty sure that it is not a communal settlement at least as per the WP definition- I haven't joined any cooperative! However, if you can provide a source for this... thanks ces Cestor (talk) 21:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I answered a bit on the article talk page. --Shuki (talk) 22:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

ok, will respond there —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cestor (talk • contribs) 20:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Allegations of Israeli Apartheid?
currently there is a vote going on in removing allegations of an israeli apartheid. i would appreciate your opinion on this matter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Allegations_of_Israeli_apartheid_%288th_nomination%29Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)