User talk:SilkTork/Archive2/Archive 5

Langbaurgh East
Hi, as you are looking at Wapentakes at the moment, can you have a look at Langbaurgh East which has recently been PROded to see if it can be salvaged. Keith D (talk) 23:17, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Article needs a clean up, and perhaps merging into Langbaurgh Wapentake, but the material doesn't need deleting. I've de-prodded it, and as it is now sourced, removed the unreferenced tag. SilkTork  ✔Tea time  23:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * OK thanks. Looks as another user has added some details since the PROD. Keith D (talk) 23:42, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I need help
I need help to control my editing (and Bmusician is not helping).-- Deathlaser :  Chat 16:37, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Can you give me some more information? SilkTork  ✔Tea time  21:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

AD/HD, predominately inattentive type renamed to ADD
Why was this page renamed to ADD? I looked for but couldn't find the page history and talk page of the original. "Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Predominantly Inattentive Type" is the name for this subtype of AD/HD, as defined in the DSM-IV. "ADD" is an outdated term from the DSM-III and is no longer used. Thanks. Ofus (talk) 21:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The article history and talkpage remain the same. I changed the title under WP:Common name and the reason is given in the second sentence of the article: "The term was formally changed in 1994 in the new Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM-IV) to "ADHD predominantly inattentive" (ADHD-PI or ADHD-I), though the term attention deficit disorder is still widely used." We are a general encyclopedia so we give articles the titles that most users expect to find under the principle of least astonishment and quick identification. Readers already knowledgeable with the subject will have no problems recognising they are in the right place, but readers looking for information on "attention deficit disorder" may be confused on seeing an article called "ADHD predominantly inattentive". SilkTork  ✔Tea time  21:25, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Checkuser?
Are you available to do a checkuser right now? -  Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 10:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. SilkTork  ✔Tea time  10:58, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I don't have anything to run this one against, but User:2rniddj‎ is a brand new account, has created many different templates (which new users shouldn't be able to do) and then edited a ton of pages and then just disappeared.  The templates were without consensus (cause it was a BIG change) and I have attempted to talk with the user to no avail.  Something seems fishy and I hear ducks. -  Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 11:01, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see a reason for a Checkuser on that account, unless you suspect it may be a blocked user. While I can see that you don't agree with the thinking behind the edits, I don't actually see that they are against policy. The user appears to feel that as regards organising TV stations in Carolina they should not not be split into North and South. Has there been some prior history of a dispute over such a division? SilkTork  ✔Tea time  11:11, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I do suspect it may be a blocked user. We have had many users who have been blocked from editing due to their edits to TV station pages.  The reason we have the stations organized by state is it is for users from, say North Carolina, or another state to see which stations from a particular network are located in their state.  It is a MOS the folks at WP:TVS came up with to make things less confusing for users.  Our MOS rules are on part with the general MOS rules.


 * There hasn't been a dispute, but we have had users who have created similar templates for other areas. One moment and I will find that user. -  Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 11:15, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * All this users (User:ProdConn9095) edits are exactly similar to User:2rniddj‎'s. Creation of a wide-area template without discussion, adding it to the pages and then the user disappears. -  Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 11:18, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

User:ProdConn9095's edits seem fine - the templates and redirects are still in place. And that account has not edited since November 2009, over two years before User:2rniddj‎ started editing so even if they were the same person, they would not be doing anything against our guidelines. If you feel that User:2rniddj‎'s edits are not in line with consensus then you could leave them a message. If they don't respond, then you can take steps to restore the templates to consensus and leave another message saying that is what you have done, also suggesting that the user gets in touch before making any more edits. I don't see a need for Checkuser in this instance. SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  16:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Honky Tonk Heroes
Thanks for working in the review, I'll do my best to assess your concerns.-- <font color="#E62020" size="2.5px">GD <font color="#273BE2" size="2.5px">uwen  <font color="cyan" size="0.5px">Tell me!  20:25, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll pop along shortly to have a look. Am suddenly busy in real life, so Wiki time is reduced, and the priority is the ArbCom stuff when I do get time here. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  13:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, take your time. We'll take care of everything at some point anyway. I'll start working on Jailhouse Rock.-- <font color="#E62020" size="2.5px">GD <font color="#273BE2" size="2.5px">uwen  <font color="cyan" size="0.5px">Tell me!  17:56, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree. With a little work I see the article reaching GA status, and I don't see the matter hanging on too long, it's just a question of getting round to it. I'm looking today at a couple of other GA reviews I've taken on, so people have something to work on, then I'm coming back to yours. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  09:50, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's fine, maybe we can get back to Waylon Jennings on another occasion. I think that we'll finish with Honky Tonk Heroes and Jailhouse Rock soon anyway. I understand that reviewing an article sometimes might take longer, but we'll get there.-- <font color="#E62020" size="2.5px">GD <font color="#273BE2" size="2.5px">uwen  <font color="cyan" size="0.5px">Tell me!  19:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I am normally slow, but I have been particularly slow on the three GA reviews I still have left as my real life situation has been rather busy recently and when I do get to Wikipedia I have to prioritise ArbCom stuff, and then with the time I have left I find I want to do minor edits, or some distracting stuff - like closing contentious AfDs! I feel especially bad about the Get Carter! review because I haven't even finished it! <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  19:50, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

RSLP
Hello again, If you are still interested in the Research Support Libraries Programme I have found and added some information to the Ronald Milne article.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 20:20, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks Felix. I am a bit of a grasshopper when it comes to articles and topics. I have now hopped off to other topics, but I will be hopping back to libraries at some point. Thanks for all your help. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  16:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Amendment request
Hi SilkTork, I've responded to your question at Arbitration/Requests/Amendment. Prioryman (talk) 09:01, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I see it now. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  16:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Mass editing
"The principle here being that if a series of edits look like they were made without due attention, that we treat them as being made without due attention"

This is where my thoughts have been going, there are two points of interest with respect to "made without due attention" vs "look like they were made without due attention". Take for example a set of 5000 articles with the word "Encyclopedia" of which 500 need changing to "Encyclopædia" and 4500 should be left alone. An editor who changes 505 (all the correct and 5 wrong ones) will look like he has an error rate of 1%, and is inattentive. In fact the error rate is 0.1%.

Secondly - and this is something I have never understood - while (even a very attentive) manual editor is likely to save a number of errors, and go back and self revert, whereas an inattentive editor will just miss the errors altogether, going back and reverting oneself is cited time and again as either proof of inattention, or fully automated edits.

Rich Farmbrough, 00:40, 8 May 2012 (UTC).


 * Yes, good points. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  15:29, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

British Library
Hi!

This is just to let you know that I've just recently started as the Wikipedian in Residence at the British Library, building off the 2011 British Library project which you participated in. I'll be working here full-time for the next six months; I'm still meeting people here to discuss projects that they're interested in working on, but if you've any suggestions, please do let me know!

We've currently got two events in the calendar:


 * World War I Editathon, 16 June - organised jointly with JISC
 * GLAM-WIKI 2012, 14-15 September - conference hosted by WMUK and the British Library

and I'm in the process of restarting the individual collaborations program - there's currently one article with a specialist looking for a Wikipedian, and hopefully I'll be adding more over the next few days.

(I'm planning to use the old participants list for any future messages - if you'd rather not be contacted, please leave a note there.) Thanks, Andrew Gray (talk) 11:27, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

WP London in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject London for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 05:13, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Oops
I didn't mean to vandalize your page. Errant iPad button push. Asher196 (talk) 00:02, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Category:Film making
Category:Film making, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.  Mbinebri  talk &larr; 17:56, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Lordy - that was way back in 2007. Anyway, left my comment. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  19:56, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Chancellor (education)
A rather long time ago, you effected a complex merger at Chancellor (education). The resulting article is rather unsatisfactory as respects the United States (and probably some other countries). I see at Talk:Chancellor (education) that you had some residual concerns after you accomplished the merger. Could you please return there to discuss options? --Orlady (talk) 19:02, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I left a comment. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  20:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Structuration
Structuration has been nominated for Good article reassessment.  Spinning Spark  09:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * There have been comments that the GA review was procedurally problematic; however, we only discourage reviews by significant contributors, and you were not a contributor. That the review was not up to normal GA standards is, I think, simply the result of your inexperience with the GA criteria, rather than any attempt to gain prestige for your student or college. However, to avoid any appearance of impropriety, it might be good practise as a supervisor of a significant article contributor to allow GA reviews to be done by an independent reviewer. As regards grading the student, it would be up to you as the supervisor to judge the finished work by your university's standards, not by ours. A supervisor wanting to award a grade purely on a GA listing would need to be advised that listings can be somewhat random depending on the experience and views of the reviewer. If you have any questions about or assistance with the GA process, let me know on my talkpage page, and I'll do what I can. Regards <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  14:19, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, I did not intend to be the GA reviewer. My inexperience locked me into it; I only intended to leave comments for the reviewer.  Now I know.  However, I only knew that this was a student, but it was not one of my students and not my college.  Once into it, my only intention was to encourage students, in general, to become editors. Meclee (talk) 12:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Cool. If you need any assistance in future, just let me know. You can leave a talkback template if that is your choice, though I prefer text. If you wish a copy on your own talkpage (as I often do) then doing a copy and paste requires less effort than typing out the template. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  19:32, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:RollingRock301 Logo.JPG
 Thanks for uploading File:RollingRock301 Logo.JPG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 08:45, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Your comment on my appeal
Hi SilkTork, I'd like to correct a point you made here on my appeal. The controversy you referred to had nothing to do with the ARBCC sanctions, where there is not and has not been any controversy whatsoever. The issue in that discussion related to the ARBSCI restrictions, specifically an editor's attempts to go after me for supposed violations. It makes no sense to oppose a lifting of the ARBCC sanctions on the grounds of "controversy" if there has not been any controversy. I'd be grateful if you could reconsider this. Prioryman (talk) 07:22, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

File:Greg koch, chris and me.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Greg koch, chris and me.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Deleted the file. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  09:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

GA Review
Just like to say a very big thank you for the thorough GA review! -- Lemonade51 (talk) 14:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Good luck with tidying it up and further developing it. Will you take it up to FA level? <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  14:38, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hope to. I will most likely take the article to WP:GOCE in the coming weeks to get it fine tuned. Then another crack at peer review and nominate it if all goes smoothly. Any idea how I should go about citations; something you touched upon the review? -- Lemonade51 (talk) 14:47, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The FA reviewers like consistency in reviews. Criteria 2(a) says: Because of that "consistently formatted" phrase, a number of reviewers want all the citations to be exactly the same - that is, if cite 1 has author, publication, date, page number, then all the other citations need to be author, publication, date, page number, and if any citations are found to be author, page number, publication, date then they will ask for it to be changed. There are editors who enjoy or don't mind doing such meticulous formatting, and it might be useful to find one. You could try User:Jenks24 or User:Nikkimaria - they are two people I know who are interesting in citation formatting of FA articles - if they are not willing or able to do it themselves, they might suggest someone. You have more short format citations than full format, so you may decide to go with that, as that would be easiest. Most Wikipedians find the full format more useful and reader friendly than the short format, and I am a supporter of full format so that is what I would urge, but the decision has to be those who are going to do the work. Some Wikipedians, I think, find the shorter method easier for editing purposes if there are a lot of different sources, as it reduces the amount of text in the article in editing mode. So it's a balance between the needs of the editor and the needs of the reader. My feeling is we should always put the reader before the editor. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  15:06, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/John F. Ashton
Thank you for taking the time to close this lengthy AfD debate. I agree with your comments and your assessment of the consensus. Cunard (talk) 23:08, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  23:17, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * As per WP:N, "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." It is the nutshell that identifies that we look for "sufficiently significant attention".  Unscintillating (talk) 23:38, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  23:47, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see a single piece of objective evidence at the AfD that impeaches any of the 70 sources as being what WP:GNG defines as "trivial coverage". As is typical in such arguments, there is no quantitative definition of how the known sources fall short of what would have been "sufficiently" significant attention.  I do see quantitative evidence (such as "2.5 pages") of individual sources with , that there is much more than minimally significant coverage.  WP:GNG is commonly understood as requiring two "good" sources the length of a newspaper article, which is a benchmark that is far surpassed.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:43, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * However, it might not be a bad thing to move the article to JJBs user page for a while. I think it would make things go more smoothly if the close was changed to "Userfy".  Unscintillating (talk) 00:43, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I find it highly proceedurally-irregular that more than a week after the AfD was closed it was reverted to a different result without any notice (amounting to a speedy deletion), not to mention that less than two thirds was ruled to be a consensus. I think a fresh AfD would have been more appropriate, because of the substantial work and research put into article since the original close, which could easily have given rise to much clearer arguments than was possible before the original close. You did not acknowlege that sources had been found directly refuting a large fraction of the specific arguments that had been put forward as a basis for deletion, and under the circumstances I would have at least expected temporary preservation in the incubator. I also fail to understand why you found reconfirmation of votes worthy of positive comment (since I don't see how future AfDs will benefit from your obliging all sides to keep redundantly and persistently reiterating their positions). So this is me courteously asking you to take another look at whether deletion is appropriate at this moment given the process? Cesiumfrog (talk) 01:00, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand your concern. What happened was I went to AfD to close some old discussions. This AfD was listed as the oldest one, so I put a closing notice on it and began to close it in the normal way. As part of my closing process I read the article and the article talkpage, and checked the article history; as I did that I became aware that it had been previously closed, and that the closer had then undone their close as they felt they were unable to commit to writing a closing rationale for their "no consensus" decision. Like yourself, I did then pause to consider the implications of that, and felt that in essence the closer had returned the AfD to the pool, and it was as if that close had not happened. If I hadn't checked the talkpage and the article history, I would not have been aware of the previous close. The circumstances are, however, interesting, and it would be appropriate to test if the procedure was acceptable by taking it to DRV, and I would support that. The article had changed since the AfD, and the discussion had not covered those changes, which included information from the New Scientist article. In the circumstances a relisting for seven days might have been more appropriate, and it would have been more helpful if the original closer had done that. By the time I became aware of it, I had already spent over an hour on the review, and I think that would have influenced my decision to continue and finish the close. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  09:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Well, this was rather a surprise for my letting WP go for 2 hours. Never thought of that eventuality, that would allow an article with 70 independent sources to be deleted. Yes, please userfy to me, with full history of course, if that is the right outcome. I am disappointed that you didn't mention that there were eighteen reviews of four books other than the anthology, which were incompletely rebutted; only a couple comments mentioned them, and all referred only to the chocolate book and not to the other three reviewed books. These reviews were asserted to satisfy WP:AUTHOR and were not rebutted at any time by any of the delete !voters I can find (I only found 13 such !voters). Also after close it came out that Ashton was a Chartered Chemist after all (CFRACI), which probably settles the question of PROF#C3. Based on this data I would of course appreciate your making any clarifications necessary for the record. JJB 01:20, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have userfied to User:John J. Bulten/John F. Ashton with the full history. When you feel the article is ready to be moved back into mainspace it's just a case of removing the code from around the categories, and then doing a page move - full editing history will remain with the page. It would make sense to ask an admin to look over the article before making the move so that the article isn't speedy deleted as a recreation of a deleted article. Sometimes people will voluntarily take a newly recreated article to AfD in order to test out consensus, but that is up to you.
 * As regards the reviews and the CFRACI, such information is useful in building up a profile of a topic in order to establish notability. The various guidelines that we have regarding notability are not bright lines - it is not intended that if a topic meets a criterion that they are automatically notable, nor that if they do not meet any criteria that they are automatically non-notable. The criteria are useful guides. The majority of those in the discussion felt that article did not sufficiently meet the criteria, and it was worth noting that as the article was being developed during the discussion, and that arguments were also being developed, that a number of people had revisited the article and the discussion and re-affirmed their delete !votes - sometimes early delete !votes count for less if new sources or arguments come to light during the discussion, and the !voter hasn't noticed. I felt that there had been a healthy (and civil) discussion of the article, and good points had been raised on both sides, but that on balance the consensus was sufficiently enough in favour of the delete view for deletion to take place. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  09:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I have listed the AfD at Deletion review/Log/2012 May 24. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  09:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your communicativeness, a rare and desirable quality. Though I have strong views about the subject, I have not formed any opinion on the unique process that occurred other than its being WP:ASTONISHing as stated. JJB 14:13, 24 May 2012 (UTC) I guess I will need to ask some ticklish questions about the second close's text here after all, and I apologize that my request for clarifications was clearly too generic.
 * Could you please userfy the full talk history? I'm sorry I neglected to mention this. I had listed 16 more sources there for "posterity", and much other useful discussion there is essential to work that could establish notability more clearly.
 * Done: User talk:John J. Bulten/John F. Ashton <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  20:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In your close, do you see any need to adjust your !votecounts and reasonableness percentage? 31 accounts edited the AFD. Keep (13): Professor marginalia, Phil Bridger, Xxanthippe, Guillaume2303, David Eppstein, Yaksar, Hrafn, Salimfadhley, Dominus Vobisdu, Thine Antique Pen, IRWolfie-, Nomoskedasticity, MrOllie; Delete (9): John J. Bulten, StAnselm, Mormon Man, Unscintillating, Tonyinman, Cesiumfrog, DGG, 202.124.73.201, DrPhen; Abstain or comment (1): Joe Decker; Administrative (8 including duplicates of IP editor): Snotbot, Gene93k, PhantomSteve, SilkTork, Armbrust, 202.124.74.80, 202.127.72.61, 202.127.72.13.
 * You're right. Looking at my figures I was using the five bar gate counting method - four down strokes and a fifth crossing through. I then counted each five bar gate as a 10. I didn't count the non voters for the sake of the counting, so adding the three gates as 10 instead of 5, gives me the extra 15 for the voters. I didn't count Mormon Man's vote. Including his vote makes the figure more like 59% than 64%, but that is not significant enough to make any difference. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  20:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you mention GNG, do you want to mention WP:BASIC, which is an SNG? "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." No rebuttal describing the point at which combination toward notability is achieved (e.g., 70 sources).
 * For "meant", read "met"?
 * Since editors indicate CFRACI status, rather than FRACI status, would have made a difference, and since this was documented after AFD, do you want to mention that? First such comment: Phil Bridger 17:28, 30 April 2012 (UTC). Probably more on deleted talk page.
 * Since DGG referred to "books" rather than a book, do you want to mention the additional 4 reviewed books, or adjust your classification of the "main book"? 5 multiply-reviewed books were sourced, 3 were totally ignored, and the chocolate book had many more reviews than the "main book".
 * I am not trained in diplomacy and do not know the best way to approach this, so I have asked you these points directly, as knowing these answers will help guide my work toward clarifying notability. Clarifying your stance on these "neglected aspects" here would be very gratifying. Thank you for your attention. JJB 18:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have listed discussion at DRV due to the unusual nature of the procedure, and I have offered two reasonable ways forward there. I don't think there is any more benefit to be gained from micro-analysing the AfD discussion here. I think there were good points raised on both sides; however, on balance I felt that the views for deletion were more convincing. I understand that you will have a slightly different interpretation, and I accept that. My feeling at this stage is that your efforts would be better placed at working to improve the article so you can move it back into mainspace. I suspect that with a few more solid sources the article would be able to stand up convincingly as notable. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  20:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I certainly appreciate and agree with the last two sentences, which were very gracious, and I always respect the agreement to disagree as to other points. JJB 20:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. As regards WP:BASIC, yes, I am aware of it - I am one of the significant contributors to WP:BIO. ;-) <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  21:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I have an objection
I object to something in the amendment thread. It's Mathsci's comments that the committee has decided I was definitely proxying for Ferahgo, like this one. From your comments on the proposed decision, I know the committee's view is that I got involved in Wikipedia because of an off-wiki discussion, but that she didn't ask me to. I'm glad the committee isn't going to enshrine Mathsci's view of events in the amended finding of fact. But he's misrepresenting the committee's decision by claiming they already ruled he's right about me. Jclemens already tried to correct him about this here, but Mathsci kept repeating it anyway. My Very Best Wishes commented about how Mathsci's aggression has a chilling effect on any disagreement with him, and that it's continuing even after he was admonished for it. I'm afraid if Mathsci keeps repeating his version of what the committee decided about me for long enough, it might turn into a sort of unofficial amendment even though the committee never agreed with it. Do you know if there's any way to stop this, short of opening another case or review? I don't know what to do about it, so I'll be glad for any advice or help you can offer.-SightWatcher (talk) 21:27, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * 6.1) SightWatcher is indefinitely banned from editing and/or discussing the topic of Race and Intelligence on any page of Wikipedia, including user talk pages, or from participating in any discussion concerning the conduct of editors who have worked in the topic. This editor may however within reason participate in dispute resolution and noticeboard discussions if their own conduct has been mentioned.
 * Under the above remedy I would suggest you limit your comments on this topic to the arena where your conduct has been mentioned. And where your conduct is mentioned, judge carefully if you actually need to respond. In this case I don't think you need respond - your conduct is not under investigation. You are simply being mentioned. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  22:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's discussing my conduct to accuse me of proxying for someone else, and to claim Arbcom ruled I've been doing that even though Arbcom ruled no such thing. When people are saying this, is there really nothing I can do about it?


 * I'm not very reassured the problem is going to go away now, based on Mathsci's response to you in the edit summary here. trolling is posting stupid things just to provoke a reaction.-SightWatcher (talk) 04:14, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I would strongly advise you to concentrate on building articles, and to cease commenting on other users who were involved in the Race and Intelligence topic. You don't need to make any such comments, and in doing so you are aiding in the creation of a toxic atmosphere and may find yourself being banned from Wikipedia. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  07:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I have quite a bit more damning evidence I've gathered together on this which I have not shared yet - and if an amendment is requested over that issue, I will pass it on. Captain Occam and his proxies have collectively contributed some 1500 edits which are directly related to R/I -- approx 1500 since his R/I topic ban went into effect, and they've been causing crazy over this everywhere they go.  This needs to stop. Professor marginalia (talk) 05:08, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Top of the Pops LPs
Hi,

I noticed that (for I think the second time) you have redirected Top of the Pops volue 18 LP (and I assume Volume 20) to the main Top of the Pops Album Series page, thereby effectively removing the original pages. While I agree that all the individual albums in this series don't need pages, these two do.

The reason is that they both made number 1 on the UK national LP chart. That makes them notable in itself - and, there's a wiki page listing all the UK number 1 albums, with links to the individual pages. Also, the success of these LPs was instrumental in getting the chart rules changed so that budget LPs were no longer permitted, so they have a minor place in recording history. This has been covered in publications like Mojo, the Hit Albums chart books, at least two BBC radio documentaries etc.

So, I think they are certainly notable and need their own pages. Do you agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MegdalePlace (talk • contribs) 11:02, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Megdale, thanks for getting in touch to discuss this. I can recall buying some of the Top of the Pops albums, and I'm certainly aware that there is a nostalgic cult interest in the series, so even though the main article is unreferenced, it is likely that it can be supported by reliable sources (as required by our notability guidelines such as WP:GNG) if someone was prepared to put in the research needed. That main article - Top of the Pops (record series) - would certainly be the place to detail the greatest commercial successes of the series. If any particular individual album had been written about enough in reliable sources to generate sufficient material for a standalone album, and it had citations back to the sources, it could be split off from the main article per WP:Summary style. So I think the first thing to do is find good quality sources for the main article, and then to build up information on key albums within that main article. When you think you have enough material to split an album out into a standalone article, let me know and I'll take a look to give you further advice. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  17:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

SB/HPB
You say "There are several cases of SmackBot/Helpful Pixie Bot being unblocked inappropriately by Rich Farmbrough, and of other admins reblocking with a comment that he should not be unblocking himself, or that issues are still not resolved."

I should point out that this was brought up in the case and the two examples cited were completely debunked. Maybe you missed that. Rich Farmbrough, 03:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC).


 * Hm? Rich Farmbrough, 12:38, 30 May 2012 (UTC).


 * Yes, I must have missed that. But I certainly have noticed your attempts to draw attention to yourself since the case closed. I was against the principle of site-banning you just because you would make it difficult to make the sanctions work in a positive manner. My feeling was that you would take on board that your behaviour has been a cause for concern, and you would make a serious effort to be collegiate and collaborative. I felt it was wrong to ban someone for what they might do, rather than what they had done. I still feel that way, but I am now more fully understanding of the reasons for proposing a site ban. I guess you are feeling a bit frustrated right now, and you are working through some feelings of injustice. I assume this will not last, and you will settle down. However, be aware that you are pushing a lot of buttons right now, and you could end up with a block. Even in the worse case scenario that the result of the ArbCom case was totally wrong, and you have been seriously misunderstood, and that every single claim against you could be proved to be a mistake, the situation is that you are still active on the site and can still edit here. You can still do the same sorts of edits on the same sorts of articles, except that it will take a bit longer, and you can no longer do admin actions. Consensus has gone against you. Adjust to it, and people will respect and trust you. Rail against it, and people will start to feel you are not suited to the Wikipedian way. It's more in your hands now than it is in mine. I wish you well. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  13:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually that's the best case scenario. And I had hoped that we could, step by step, unpick the tangled web, by process of simple amendments.  But clearly you are right and many of those involved have too many buttons.  Rich Farmbrough, 13:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Heads up
Just thought you'd like to know that it looks like you may have a broken reflist on your clip-board. Nothing major, nothing hard to fix, but if you plan to be doing a lot of pasting, it's a good thing to know. :) -- WikHead (talk) 20:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  21:38, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're more certainly welcome SilkTork... glad to have been helpful. Have yourself a great day, and stay well! :) -- WikHead (talk) 21:47, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

About Brews
I've suggested something on Roger davies' talk page, and posted a link to that also on the clarification page. Because of the large volume of postings there, I wasn't sure that this is all that visible. Basically, this is equivalent to a site ban minus whatever the mentor approves he can do. So, on the one hand, a lot more restrictive, however, on the other hand, Brews himself would prefer this over a topic ban (I've discussed this many times with Brews before). It allows him to work precisely where he can do so without friction. Count Iblis (talk) 16:29, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * It wouldn't be appropriate to have such a discussion on someone's talkpage. Propose it on the clarification page where it can be properly considered and where it forms part of the record. It would be helpful if you do propose it on the clarification page, to explain a bit more about how it would work. In what way would you be mentoring him? Would you be advising him to stay away from certain articles and/or certain editors, and if he doesn't, you'll block him? Unless you are prepared to block, then the mentoring would be unlikely to work. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  17:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that you are not an admin. I wouldn't be able to support you mentoring Brews unless you were able to block him for infringements. <font color="#8D38C9" size="2px">SilkTork  <font color="#347C2C">✔Tea time  17:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * So propose him for Admin. Rich Farmbrough, 13:06, 1 June 2012 (UTC).