User talk:SimonTrew

Machine translation etc

 * I didn;t know you translated Chinese. Do you ever look in at WP:PNT, I can't remember ever seeing you there? Si Trew (talk) 06:17, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I rarely go there, but I quite like the new translation tool that you can enable in the "Beta" section, I think I have talked to you about doing this not so long ago, if there are any problems at RfD relating to Chinese words, I'm the one to go to. Remember that. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 06:21, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ohh, a lot of peopole really do not like the new translation tool, or rather, the results of it when monolingual people assume that the results are just wonderful: interesting discussion on WT:PNT about that. Of course as someone who knows his way around a language it is probably quite handy but I always find it easier just to edit everything longhand (but not much comes up in French and even less in Hungarian, I will do a Spanish one on request but only if it is really a straight-facts article, geo articles etc, because any kind of subtlety or expert opinion with RS etc I would be out of my depth translating that kind of thing). I must remember that about the Chinese, yes, thanks. And in return, if you have any problems with people talking bollox then you know who is the best at that, yours faithfully Si Trew (talk) 06:27, 7 October 2016 (UTC) I presume I'm allowed to personally attack myself? :)
 * One thing over in the discussion at WT:PNT (I was kinda pinged for my comments as I guess I am just about regular enough obviously it depends what turns up whether I do any work from there) is that I said that quite often I just do the "scaffolding" and let other people then fill in the meat of the text. (That's abbreviating my own rationale enormously). I don't just do that but I do tend to find that some editors are scared of all the templates etc and categorising, translating any wikilinks, translating the titles of sources, generally Wikifying the text even if I don't do much on the translation of the text, I tend to find then other editors once the "scaffolding" is in place are often quite eager to translate the text. One of the criticisms of the translation tool is that, at least on the English Wikipedia, it produces absolutely diabolical Wikimarkup with loads of span tags and things like that. I've not used it but have seen its results. For you if you're using it to translate into Chinese I can understand, because you know what you're doing, that you could find it useful as machine assisted translation etc, the danger lies with people who do not know what they're doing. I'm sure your views over at WT:PNT would be greatly appreciated. I just always find it easier to edit in the boring old text editor and do it all manually I just prefer to see the source character-for-character, but that is just me, and it would be a poorer Wikipedia if editors all did it my way. Si Trew (talk) 06:43, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I do actually have to consult the Google Translator quite frequently as I am more fluent in English, but everyone knows translating full sentences with it is a bad idea, so if I come across a word or phrase that I am not familiar with, I would have to consult it, its no big deal, really, though, as I am quite familiar with Chinese grammar. What I hate (no, don't report me for this) is that all the language versions of Wikipedia have different policies, all language versions should follow the same policies and guidelines as the English Wikipedia. Over on zh.wp, if notability issues are not resolved within 30 days, the article will automatically be AfDed. (I got a message about that a day ago).- Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 06:55, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The danger seems to lie mostly in that when you say "everyone knows", yes, everyone who has ever made any serious effort at translation knows about things like false friends and all that jazz, but some editors who were using this to import articles into EN:WP were entirely monolingual, usually not in English but in the source language and had no idea what gobledegook was coming out the back end, and the EN:WP consensus seems to be that WMF were rather encouraging the idea that this amazing new tool will magically translate everything perfectly into The King's English. Si Trew (talk) 07:42, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I just found another bug with the translation tool, it retains the categories such as Category:Commons category with local link same as on Wikidata once I have submitted it, see . But hey, I would still recommend it as I still have faith in it. People importing articles the way you describe it is certainly a bad idea IMO, I have found several examples during my time at NPP, and lots of them just copy articles from foreign wikis (WP:A2) (zhwiki does not have that criterion, which brings me back to the point that I wish all language editions followed the same policies as enwiki). - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 08:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if you find it useful I ain't gonna stop you. I amjust way to old-fashioned for all this newfangled technology: I still have to get up and walk three feet to the telly when I want to change channel. Or would that be ? I am wondering how the tool deals with things like needing to convert units, because it would be quite hard to automate sensibly. Does it kinda prompt if it sees something that looks like it is a measure? I can't really try out the tool for myself well at the moment because my keyboard bust as usual (my bad habit of smoking roll-up cigarettes and dropping the remains in the keyboard means I tend to get through one in about two months) so I have to get another, in the meantime I am on a little laptop - a very little laptop - so I don't really have the screen real estate to be able to do that kind of editing meaningfully. I can tie the lappy up to the main screen but that won't help cos its poor little graphics driver won't go higher than about 1024x768 anyway. It's usually just used to serve for internet telly but has been pressed into action. I should get some money today so that I can go and get another keyboard. All of 600 forints about $2 at the second hand shop but I am a bit strapped for cash at the moment, unexpected expenses from a death in the family. Si Trew (talk) 09:07, 7 == Should I not nominate more RfD's then? ==

Considering that it will "take you a while" to undo the nominations, I probably would be better off leaving that alone for the time being, I mean, you could've rolled back had I not nominated the last two. Sorry about that. --- Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 09:16, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Go ahead Champ I'm jsut clearing up me mess. Sorry about that... "personal" was a call about a new job as it happens, but me mum died recently went to UK for funeral on Monday so I tend to be more attentive on answering the phone than  I usually would be, sorry to have left this in the middle. I'm withdrawing most as changed me mind but a few are worthy of RfD I think. Sorry for the mess. Si Trew (talk) 09:19, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Some flowers for you

 * My condolences too. It is good to see people using personal experience to enrich content discussions on Wikipedia and get to know other editors as people. Deryck C. 14:16, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Tavix
...is admin now! Requests for adminship/Tavix. Also, non-sysops are generally allowed to perform "administrative" decisions, as long as one doesn't enact a decision that one doesn't have the technical permissions to perform (e.g. delete, move over redirect). Deryck C. 14:12, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

remembrance

 * My condolences too, Simon. I can't fully understand what you're going through, of course, but my own "mum" hasn't been doing too well lately, and that's been hard enough for me. Please take care of yourself. --BDD (talk) 21:21, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Mine as well, Simon. Take care. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Condolences

 * I don't know if this was coincidence but I was fiddling around with some of the variations of redirects of Forget-me-Not and so on a few days ago. I did it under IP as I was just making minor edits and hadn't the will to battle RfD.
 * I have been going for a lot of job interviews and have had two job offers, I won't mention companies here but I start on Monday. So, four days to fix all the articles and redirects here at SiTrePedia as I won't have much time after. Thanks to you all for your messages, they mean a lot to me. Si Trew (talk) 21:10, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

RfD note
Sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences. (Also wished to drop a courtesy note about this, just in case you might be interested.) 71.163.180.2 (talk) 19:22, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Nigerians in Uruguay
Hi, SimonTrew. Am I as the proponent of the elimination allowed to vote? I see that the creator of the redirect has voted, so I guess I would also be allowed? Please let me know. Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 14:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are allowed, I was going to add to the RfD that, anyone can just overwrite the redirect with the article content, then it will just be closed at RfD as a procedural close (as no longer a redirect). WP:JUSTDOIT, in other words. Si Trew (talk) 14:57, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help, SimonTrew. I am the proponent, so I don't want to appear as if I am passionately determined to kill the redirect, so I'll just allow the process to run its course. But I have taken not of your suggestion and keep it in mind for a future case ( I am still learning — been here for ten years, but have not done much in terms of 'admin' edits). Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 15:37, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

The Challenge Series
The Challenge Series is a current drive on English Wikipedia to encourage article improvements and creations globally through a series of 50,000/10,000/1000 Challenges for different regions, countries and topics. All Wikipedia editors in good standing are invited to participate.


 * Use   to invite others using this template.
 * Sent to users at Northamerica1000/Mailing list using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:16, 19 November 2016 (UTC).

Utterly good-faith contribution
You say in this RfD discussion "Frank Mitchell Cricket gets me Frank Herbert Mitchell, and various others who are not this person" ... but the redirect is to Frank Herbert Mitchell; he is this person. You say "Keep as harmless", but I explained in the nom exactly what harm it was doing. Would you care to rethink your contribution? --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:20, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've looked at it again, but will let my thoughts stand. I've said so on the R page. Si Trew (talk) 10:09, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry for butting in here. Not sure what the issue is here,but I think you are talking about search. I personally have almost completely stopped using Wikipedia search, and rely instead on google (which sometimes needs an addtional wikipedia search term in order to find pages on wikipedia). In my experience getting to  pages such a particular wp:wikiproject can be done much faster outside of wikipedia. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:46, 20 November 2016 (UTC)please ping me
 * I do the same for project-space searches, since our search excludes project spaces by default. But since our search engine is for readers, I think that's more of a feature than a bug. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:05, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Discussion at Requests for adminship/Godsy
You are invited to join the discussion at Requests for adminship/Godsy. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 22:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Just passing by
Thank you for your work on the Eubot redirects, much appreciated. But I think its better to have a list or group of lists, by the way, you may want to also look at User:Anomie/Neelix_list/6. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 07:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You're probably right, User:Champion, but as suggested at WP:CSD, someone has to kinda take the plunge and list some at RfD in batches first to see what comes of doing that, so I thought I'd make a start. Perhaps we should start a thread at WT:RFD cross-reffing to that. Si Trew (talk) 04:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but it would be great to keep a log of all them somewhere, like the list of N***** redirects, but, the "Articles created" tool on the Toolserver is down, I don't know another way we can do that. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 05:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, what I've been doing is using User Contributions and clicking on the "created by" option. That seems pretty much to get the same list, though no doubt it is not perfect. i.e. this. We should probably put in a bot request, and be careful to formulate it so that the links are to the redirects as well as to the targets, this time. (In fact, having the links like at the top of each RfD nom would be the best, I think there is a template variant of that created specifically for the Neelix redirects, but can't remember what it's called.) Si Trew (talk) 05:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have been browsing that list, but it may be worth asking someone who was invloved here to create a list like that one, btw, I've just nominated a few. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 05:55, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello SimonTrew. Sorry to bother you, but I just want to be reassured that this IP that has been signing off with your name (see here and the edit summaries referencing your username) is really indeed you. Thank-you.--Nev&eacute;–selbert 19:40, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your concern. Yes, it's me. I use the IP address sometimes when mobile editing so that I don't get the extras like twinkle, which make it rather cluttered and slow. I believe it's within WP policy to do that providing there's no attempt to sock. It should be a leased from a Budapest ISP if you do a who is: not sure whom without checking myself, landlord supplies it pro bono. Si Trew (talk) 19:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Ta Tanka I Yotank
Hello SimonTrew. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Ta Tanka I Yotank, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: I don't think this is snow-delete enough to qualify for X1 - the form at the target (Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotȟake in Standard Lakota) is different, but this form is in use, e.g. here. Consider RfD. Thank you. JohnCD (talk) 14:12, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Manassê et al.
I finished the merge, however haphazardly it got done. You can see my summary at Talk:Manasses (given name). So discussions at RfD might even make sense now. I'm still updating the list of people, but that shouldn't interfere with any redirect discussions. — Gorthian (talk) 23:07, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Meliana Trump
This is just a friendly reminder that when you close an RFD discussion, you also need to remove the RFD tag from the redirect. I'm assuming it just slipped your mind, but I went ahead and did it for you this time. Cheers, -- Tavix ( talk ) 18:14, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, User:Tavix,yes, just forgot. Doing them from a tablet is a struggle. Si Trew (talk) 18:24, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I know the feeling. I've closed a few discussions from my phone and it's always a pain. -- Tavix ( talk ) 18:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Eubotics
I have been looking at some of the Eubot redirects, as you have seen, and User:Athomeinkobe did respond to my ping about your help with Japanese names but you never replied. I now think I do get digraphs and diacritics mixed up. The reason, btw, that I pinged you earlier was that I thought you may be interested in the comments that I replied to User:Tavix on my talk page. Meanwhile, I have uncovered two of the longest standing hoaxes in the history of the 'Pedia. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 05:24, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Nicely done. I've forgotten what the Japanese ones were about. Si Trew (talk) 05:28, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * What are you doing praising me for forgetting the Japanese redirects, I am specifically looking at Chinese transliterations created by Eubot and here is another one for you

Eubotics refers to the process of creating redirects, often en masse from incorrect transliterations. The term originates from User:Eubot who has created thousands of redirects from incorrect transliterations in 2008. The process has often been compared to Neelixism.. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 05:36, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Praise for the hoaxes. The Eubot ones are in a sense worse than the Neelix ones as often there is a lot of follow-up for each one (when they are not simply knocking off the diacritical marks, but have been redirected from a redirect that is itself in another category: the Eubot ones didn't transfer the categories over, so often they become meaningless if they were e.g. in the first place.) Si Trew (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It all began when I was just casually searching for redirects to nominated at RfD and consensus emerged that that particular one was better sent to AfD as it was previously an article. I felt like that it was a bad idea for when it was converted into a redirect for otherwise the hoax would have been picked up earlier. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 05:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I suppose it's confirmation bias but a lot of AfDs seem to be closed as "convert to redirect" to mean "it should be deleted but we won't be able to get consensus for that, so let's at least delete the text and maybe RfD will then delete the redirect". Si Trew (talk) 06:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Incidentally the redirects to Dreamfall: The Longest Journey are a reasonable idea of what each nontrivial (i.e. "keep") Eubot redirect entails. Seventeen redirects to that target, variously created for various reasons, and one ends up with some being sensible and some being nonsense, and has to go through them to find out which. Is Dreamfall OS or Watilla sensible? Who knows. But if I don't go through the non-Eubot ones I will probably be accused of just concentrating on Eubot as some kind of personal attack. (That's what people essentially say when you mark something as "Neelix", i.e. leave little poor Neelix alone, even though to write out "Created by User:Neelix" would be a perfectly neutral comment.) Si Trew (talk) 06:15, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * (ec)Oh, I'm not worried about AfD's closed as redirect at all, provided that the relevant content is covered at the target, but this particular one was boldly redirected without discussion. No intention for any personal attack here, but did the editor even check for sources or check the target? This is certainly a hoax, and could've been picked up within days had the redirection not taken place. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 06:18, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, as you see from Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_December_10, the redirects get left behind long after the original damage has been repaired. I rather like the essay at WP:COSTLY (and it's the Usual Suspects in the history!) although I think it could do with tidying up a bit, the point about the maintenance burden is well made. Si Trew (talk) 07:27, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

qui vive
a l'heure: Cesar Guillaume de La Luzerne Si Trew (talk) 02:22, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings
Happy Holidays text.png Hello SimonTrew: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, North America1000 15:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

and to you. Haven't seen you much at WP:RFD lately, your name was called only yesterday as a "expert on food topics", which I took to mean a euphemism for a fat glutton, but it would be good if you added your views there from time to time. Become more expert on food topics (particularly of the poultry and pastry variety) this Christmas Day. Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 15:40, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, I look like Fabio. The holiday season is many things; a time for peace, reflection and holiday cheer, a time for families, and also a time for conspicuous, crazy consumption, such as eating and shopping. North America1000 16:05, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
Happy Holidays text.png Hello SimonTrew: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers,  Class 455 ( Merry Christmas! ) 17:41, 18 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Eubotics continued
I'm just hoping we never get to see (e.g) Cärnafon, Bör War, or Pürperal fever. Eubot is almost as annoying as those undocumented location-type templates which allow editors to post links to DAB pages containing multiple counties, railway stations, or townships, and to walk away whistling merrily. Narky Blert (talk) 23:11, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Progress
Just a friendly note that please do not nominate any more Eubot redirects for the time being for I am currently devising a set of lists, I don't know how long this is going to take but I'll let you know. Thanks. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 08:45, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas


Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. --Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 19:07, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

All done
I have done with the lists of the Eubot redirects, the list of lists along with some notes are located at User:Champion/Eubot list. Thank you, hopefully you will find it easier with the lists. If there are any problems other than those that I've outlined, please do take the effort to address them on that page. I'm fine without a CSD criterion, but I'm not sure how long it is going to take. Hopefully it will be all done a year from now. Again, thank you. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:53, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And thank you, User:Champion. I've not actually touched WP this week (except for a couple of very minor rephrasing edits at an article) as I have been rather busy at work, so you had a clear run! I!ve not looked at your lists yet, so I won't comment on them here. Si Trew (talk) 02:11, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I just felt like that an actual list was not coming anytime soon, so I thought that I'll start on one, note that my lists do not include those edited by someone else, but hey, let's just get these done first and not worry about the fixed double redirects, there are like 90,000 redirects altogether, a little less than the Neelix ones, but it will get 'em goin', don't ya think? -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 02:28, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Very much. Those lists are very handy, especially having both the link and the target. It!s good to exclude any that have had edits. (As a second pass we could include just those that have bot edits, but I think back in 2008 it was common not to "tag" bot edits). Si Trew (talk) 02:32, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to filter page creations that have subsequently been retargeted by double-redirect fixing bots, but I'm not overly worried, at least as this stage, PS, you did not edit the lists and the progression, I have done that. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 02:35, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I hadn't even looked at the instructions. I was rather hoping we can automate kinda a bot run to mark out those that are done. i.e. it's a simple difference of what was on the list before to what would be on it now. Seems like makework to do it manually. The problem is partly the ones that can be safely kept, I guess I should remove them from the lsit but then regenerating any such list will just put them back again. It is better to just make a dummy edit (add a space) at the R, to show it's been looked at, but that is also work... Si Trew (talk) 03:59, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Relax
At RfD you seem to be getting very stressed about things and in danger of saying something you regret later. It's not worth it. Take a deep breath, maybe take a little bit of time away from Wikipedia and so something that clams you down (take a walk, paint a picture, play some sport, shoot up some bad guys in a computer game, whatever) and come back when you're feeling refreshed. There is no deadline, the redirects will all still be there when you get back. You've been doing a phenomenal amount of work at RfD, but it's far better if you pace yourself and don't get burnt out. Thryduulf (talk) 22:03, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * There are 65 nominatioons on today's Rfd, 73 on yesterday's, most of the Eubot redirects. That's probably too many already for people to give proper scrutiny to, particularly at this time of year when many folk will have limited Wikipedia time (I doubt I'll be on anywhere near as much as normal for about a week starting on Wednesday for example). Thryduulf (talk) 22:10, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes old bean, and you're right. I did realise that meself. As long as you're happy that I keep listing these, that's fine. They take time to get through and it is not particularly pleasant when you get kinda "you're a stupid fuckwit" banded back at you, when I am not a stupid fuckwit. When I cock up, I admit to it, when I say I didn't do my research, I admit to it, when I change my mind, I admit to it, Champ and I have 130,000 of these to get through, and I did a thousand yesterday. With a clear run I can get half of them done by New Year's Day, but then I have to go back to work. I do a lot on the night shift where i have nothing else to do but have to be on call, so please don't tell others that. Champ and I work quite well together that way cos he is in Australia somewhere so we don't know each other at all except through RfD but he kinda hands over the baton to me and me back to him, with the time difference. List 18 is pretty much done now. They didn't beat us with Neelix and they won't beat us with Eubot, we'll be OK. Si Trew (talk) 22:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


 * That was written before the edit conflict. Now ,as to the 78 yesterday and 65 today. A word in your shell-like, Thryduulf, but acutally (and I keep the Eubotometer ticking away, if all else fails I have a piece of paper in front of me with the stats written on) about and just roughly speaking 90% or so of the Eubot redirects are OK and don't need touching in any way. They are simple which are, in fact, an R from title without diacritics. It's the roughly 10% that aren't and 10% of about 130,000 is er, well, about three and sixpence or something. It's a lot, anyway. I will bombard RfD because I think that is easier for all of us if we get it done and dusted fairly quickly, but I can understand you saying go easy. Don't worry about me, and thank you for checking external sources when I slip up (I usually do, but I do forget sometimes, and I am not going to mention every source etc but I usually do what I consider a reasonable [[WP:BEFORE} as you slapped me for that, er, before) and it will be OK as long as RfD allows the flood. With the Neelix redirects again Champ and I took the most of em, and they said it couldn'!t be done, but was not just done, but done properly. I ain't taking any shortcuts.

I still think your proopsal for grouping into sets is a load of bollox, but I hope you had a happy Christmas, have a great 2017, and please continue to be a thorn in my side at Wikipedia. I only see you really at RfD, but occasionally I see you work elswehere too. I don't know what to say but thank you for making the world better, one bit at a time. I was deliberately swearing and cussing to see what would come of it. (I don't do it very much in real life, either.) The double entendre on "Cunety" seems to have been ducked, and there was another one really bad pun about the unbecoming of the Magi, which apparently nobody got. You gotta have puns, it's Christmas! Or is that just very British to have bad puns in Christmas crackers? Si Trew (talk) 22:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Flaming
Thanks for your pointer to the discussion about the "flambéed" redirect. I've contributed. --Macrakis (talk) 20:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * My pleasure, . To put you in the picture, there are about 130,000 redirects created by a bot, User:Eubot about eight years ago, mostly harmless but some that are rather weird. They were all created without discussion or approval as . Most, about 90%, are just fine, but about 10% are a bit iffy, and those are the ones I bring to RfD. So no problem at all that you say "keep", but pretty much anthing I bring to RfD off of those is going to be a delete, for if not I just quietly keep them and so on. There's lists at e.g. User:Champion/Eubot_list_16 if you're interested (they number 1 through 18, at five thousand Rs a throw, but I have done most of 18). Si Trew (talk) 20:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

WP:Articles for deletion/List of Norwegian television series
Just letting you know. Peridon (talk) 19:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

User talk: Eubot and Twinkle
I reverted the last 500 edits on that page, removing between 300k and 400k bytes, and reducing the number of sections from the 600s to the 100s. Almost all of those edits were automated Twinkle edits for the redirect deletion. Is that okay? HotdogPi 16:54, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year, SimonTrew!


Happy New Year! SimonTrew, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

 Class 455 ( talk  | stand clear of the doors!)''' 18:33, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year SimonTrew!


Happy New Year! SimonTrew, Have a prosperous, productive and wonderful New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

--Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 12:27, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

AfD and withdrawal by you.
SimonTrew, you nominated Västra Frölunda IF (disambiguation) for deletion and then attempted to withdraw the nomination by blanking the AfD page. Whatever your reason is, you cannot remove AfD tags from the pages and blank AfD discussion template. Kindly read WP:WDAFD and follow the steps there should you wish to withdraw the nomination. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  05:45, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have deleted the AfD page which was clearly created in error. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ivanvector. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  13:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Welcome back
See you've been on and off wikibreak again, to be honest, even I am not that active now, and I have not dealt with the Eubot redirects for quite a while now, probably since you were on wikibreak, for that matter. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:19, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll get back to them, I don!t even remember where they are. I saw you added a couple the other day. The missus is back on her six-month tour of Europe (for work: the view from her Czech hotel window is... er... the same as from any other business hotel window i.e. an oblique view of a lot of other hotel windows) so I have a bit more time in the evenings for luxuries such as Wikipedia. Si Trew (talk) 19:33, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Propagation error
Following on from the comments at Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 April 5 regarding Propagation error (or Error propagation, one should redirect to the other I think; also Propogation error and Error propogation would be a useful misspelling redirects) the title should not be red. In addition to the use in computing we were talking about (I can't find a relevant article) we have several other articles/sections that may be relevant so a dab page somewhere is probably justified. I don't pretend to understand all of these articles though: Most of those are way over my head currently (I'm unfit and I've walked the best part of 10 mi today so I'm exhausted), and I suspect over my head when I'm fully functioning so I don't want to be responsible for trying to fit them to a disambg. Thryduulf (talk) 20:16, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propagation of uncertainty "or Propagation of error" in statistics
 * backward propagation of errors or backpropagation, a method for training artificial neural networks
 * Approximation error "In the mathematical field of numerical analysis, the numerical stability of an algorithm in numerical analysis indicates how the error is propagated by the algorithm."
 * Error analysis (mathematics) "Error analysis deals with the propagation of the numerical errors in x {\displaystyle \scriptstyle x} \scriptstyle x and y {\displaystyle \scriptstyle y} \scriptstyle y (around mean values x ¯ {\displaystyle \scriptstyle {\bar {x}}} \scriptstyle\bar{x} and y ¯ {\displaystyle \scriptstyle {\bar {y}}} \scriptstyle\bar{y}) to error in z {\displaystyle \scriptstyle z} \scriptstyle z (around a mean z ¯ {\displaystyle \scriptstyle {\bar {z}}} \scriptstyle\bar{z})."
 * Numerical analysis
 * ps: please reply here to keep the conversation together. Thryduulf (talk) 20:17, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good idea, to make a DAB, but we already have a DAB and Error (disambiguation) might be alright, if expanded.
 * I'm usually quite a good speller, but when I get something like this it makes me second-guess and I think "well, is it 'propogation' and I have been spelling it wrong all these years?' and then think of examples such as propaganda, proportion, and so on, to see which fits best. Of course, I could just look in a dictionary, but I am not the only pattern-matching human in the world so I imagine if I make a mistake (or rather, don't but then hypercorrect it) then other readers could do the same thing. Deliberately on these things I don't tend to look at unreliable sources such as Wikipedia for e.g. propagator, which would be the sensible thing to do but if not careful one ends up going down the rabbit hole (should we have propagater and propogater, for example?)
 * It's a pity that "error" was chosen in stats and engineering to mean e.g. engineering tolerance or "uncertainty" as stated, and not the common-sense use of meaning "fault". Perhaps it was an ill-chosen word, but we're stuck with it.
 * Si Trew (talk) 05:29, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, yes, -> Propagation of uncertainty, which you implied but I thought they may have been two separate articles. I suppose I was talking about garbage in, garbage out, in a way, would that be a reasonable thing to add to the DAB? The second (and last) sentence of the lede says "The principle also applies more generally to all analysis and logic, in that arguments are unsound if their premises are flawed" which is a reasonable statement to make in a lede (it has relevant links which I've omitted here) and presumably one can end up at  -> formal fallacy or whatnot, but that might be straying too far. I suppose the distinction of a logical fallacy against a GIGO one is that for GIGO, the construction is perfectly sound but the inputs are weird; for a logical fallacy, the construction is unsound regardless of the inputs. Si Trew (talk) 06:13, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * By the way I hope you enjoyed your walk. I used to walk a lot too, when I lived somewhere more rural, but now it's just too easy to jump on a tram or bus. It's odd because one's kinda universe shrinks when one lives in somewhere urban, two miles to walk is nothing if you live in the countryside, that's half an hour, nothing, but if you live in town then two hundred yards to the bus stop seems a long way. I should get out to the little place I own in the countrysidethat sounds posh, doesn't it. Well, it's all mod cons now, we have an inside toilet more often, really, it will be beautiful there this time of year, the cherries will be all in bloom. I wouldn't say I was lazy but I concreted over my window-boxes. Si Trew (talk) 06:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * There's also and  to the Propagation of uncertainty target, and propogation of error created back in 2006 which gives us precedent for the misspelling, and was not marked as  but I'll do that now. Si Trew (talk) 06:40, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just said it at RfD and somehing I tend to call these things: chinese whispers. I am not sure how WP:WORLDWIDE that is, apparently in the US it is called "telephone", but I think we should put it on the DAB somehow, because that game is exactly all about propagation errors. The lede says "It is often invoked as a metaphor for cumulative error", with a reference Cumulative error is probably nearest to what I was describing, but that just R's to Propagation of uncertainty again, which doesn't really cover it very well as it leaps into algebra where there are no errors in the sense I mean, i.e. all the numbers have infinite precision and are just called X or Y with that assumption. Perhaps we ask over at WP:Wikiproject Mathematics or something, but this is more of an engineering thing, the mathematical articles tend to assume an abstract, Platonic world where everything is perfect rather than the engineering world where everything is not-very-perfect, with a known amount of imperfection. Si Trew (talk) 09:35, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Involved because you raised it. Still can't find it.
 * I have been in court four times for various things, lost one, won one, lost three. At every occasion the judge gave me the opinion straight and clear. I cannot for the life of me understand why ANI, or you as the proposer, or whatever the ANI result was, cannot do the same. There is not currently as it says a dicussion at ..., there is not. I cannot find it. I remember contributing to it, have no idea what the verdict was. Don't care really, I do this voluntarily. And I do it bloody well User:Champion. Charity is not something one is supposed to boast about.

Si Trew (talk) 00:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * In case you're interested, the discussion referred to above now lives at Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive951. It is possible for the ani-notice template to link to the thread it refers to (using the thread= parameter) but it seems most users are either disinclined to offer courtesy to editors with whom they disagree, or more likely are ignorant of the switch's existence. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:54, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably, User:Ivanvector. It came a bit out of the blue to me from an editor who listed all of these eubot ones. Have pot, have kettle. Good work there to find them, and I know it mucks up RfD, but I thooight we were trying to make the encyclopaedia better. Si Trew (talk) 15:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * As I said on ANI, it is the clean hands doctrine. A dirty dog will get no food from the courts, as Albert Haddock put it (in Misleading Cases). Si Trew (talk) 16:06, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The Negotiable Cow is probably the most famous=, but we don't seem to have that. "Was the cow crossed?" No, your honour, it was an open cow. Si Trew (talk) 16:09, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually we do have The Negotiable Cow but not Negotiable Cow... hmmm.. hesitate to create it. Si Trew (talk) 16:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

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Re Cavaliers-Warriors rivalry
That's basketball not military history... ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 04:06, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Please slow down and do basic WP:BEFORE
You are overloading WP:RFD with far too many discussions where you have not done even the most cursory checks regarding your nominations. You've nominated around 50 redirects on today's page alone, some 1-2 minutes apart. It's taking me on average 5 minutes per nomination, sometimes more, to research these redirects and it seems that few other people have the time to engage. This is not reasonable or sustainable. If you do not voluntarily slow down, to say no more than 20 nominations per calendar day, each with evidence of having conducted WP:BEFORE prior to nomination I will have to seek a formal topic ban (and the comments at your recent foray at ANI suggest I am not the only one with issues).

I know you are attempting to work through the backlog of Eubot redirects, but you are causing far more problems with your actions than you are solving - there is no deadline. If it takes three years to work through the list that's perfectly fine. It's also irrelevant how many redirects you don't nominate - what matters is the time of other contributors you are wasting. Thryduulf (talk) 10:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * What time zone you are in is irrelevant. How many redirect you process and don't nominate is, as noted above, irrelevant. Who else would do it is irrelevant, it's not clear that it needs to be done. What matter is that you are flooding RfD. The time to slow down is now, not in an hour. Thryduulf (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:BEFORE is relevant to all XfD processes, and yes it is your business to check for external uses, etc. You've been asked multiple times by multiple people to do so. It's ANI time I'm afraid. Thryduulf (talk) 10:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Take it then. Take it to ANI. I don't care. Off you go, you bully. I did some work here this morning. You arrive and bully me. Other editors did some work here this morning. Off you go, bully me. You don't own RfD. Si Trew (talk) 10:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Before you do that, have you noticed that with a little words in people's shell-likes, MORE editors have been actively editing on these than before you put your size tens in, you bully? It was quite a friendly place. I have met bullies like you in real life. Go on then, take it to ANI. Si Trew (talk) 10:38, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The time zone I am on is relevant beause I know during the night when the Americans come on I won't be able to flood like I am at the moment. I do actually have a brain in my head. Nobody was around particularly until User:Champion came in, I had the place to myself. User:Ivanvector won't reply until about ten pm my time at the earliest, User:Siuenti is probably already in bed. So I went for it like a formula one driver, or whatever, I got through 5000 on Champion List 11 and I listed about 50 and I am half way through. 50 out of 5000 listed for delete is not fuck all compared to what people did on the WP:X1 concession. That is slow. I bashed the thermometer up from 0 to 5000, cut into sections and I am at the start of section "about 6000". Si Trew (talk) 10:43, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * What matters of "the time of other contributors you are wasting" means "You are wasting my (Thryduulf's)" time. Well go do something else then. There are other admins. User:Tavix just got awarded. He can do it. Nobody asked you to come here and admin at RfD. It was not required. I didn't stand there saying Thryduulf has to riffle through these ones I have sorted'', did I? Si Trew (talk) 10:47, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * DO NOT BULLY ME. IT IS NOT BECOMING OF YOU AS AN ADMIN. Si Trew (talk) 10:48, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * It is not my fault we don't have a WP:X1 concession. That was the agreement of the community. It will be painful. The answer to that is to change the concession, change our opinion. Not have one scapegoat editor who actually gets through the bloody things in a reasonably intelligent way and gets fucking picked on by a bully. That is not fair. Si Trew (talk) 10:53, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I would really rather you stopped with the personal attacks. Thryduulf (talk) 10:56, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Formal notification of ANI thread
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is SiTrew at RfD. Thryduulf (talk) 10:50, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for personally attacking other editors. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may request an unblock by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page:.

I (not ) have blocked you for 31 hours for your ongoing flagrant personal attacks, most recently on Thryduulf's talk page. You know very well this is not acceptable conduct. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Unblock

 * Si, the discussion at ANI is nearing a consensus to impose restrictions on your editing for a period of time. Since your block has now been extended longer than the discussion is likely to remain open, if there's anything else you'd like to add to the discussion, please do so here and I will copy it over, so long as it is free of personal attacks. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:11, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

ANI and eubot flooding
OK. Here is my basic position. There are thirteen lists of User:Eubot redirectd on them. Many of them, as was said yesterday at the ANI by a professional translator, a new to me editor. (who to make it clear I did not magic up like I can magic up User:Plantdrew on botanical subjects or User:Mjroots on railways).) It's too many. We don't have a WP:X1 concession. What am I supposed to do, take each to WP:CSD? Then we would end up in the same boat with the admins at CSD saying I am flooding them. It's too many.

User:Champion made the lists, I am going through them. If you want WP:RFD nonsense such as at an encyclopaedia, have it. I don't.

My WP:BEFORE is to check the internal consistency of our encyopadia. Techinically WP:BEFORE does not apply to redirects anyway, but let's not get hung up on it like User:Thryduulf does. My job, as I see or saw it, is to go through the eubot ones and say "is this greenisholives" or is it "green olives"?". That is all I can do. Si Trew (talk) 06:40, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's my secondary position. Apart from speaking French, English, a bit of Hungarian and some other languages, more than that, I have a kinda "connecting" mind. It just makes connections all the time I wish it didn't sometimes. I just "connect" things all the time. For example right now I just remembered it was E.M. Forster who said "Only Connect" and Victoria Cohen Mitchell has a tv programme. I can do that without checking. I am that good. Si Trew (talk) 06:47, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok I got her name wrong. Alan Coren her father one of the funniest men you will ever read. See. Si Trew (talk) 06:49, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * And as for personal attacks, the thing is that "Simon Trew" is my real name. So, yes, I do start treating it as a personal attack. I am an idiot for using my real name, I suppose, but I don't hide behind a veil. It is my stupidity nine years ago but if I switched names now what good would that do? Nobody's. As we all know, Wikipedia is not the whole world. I don't want "Simon Trew" to become a synonym for "idiot". Si Trew (talk) 08:54, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you know how to get started with something. You just get started. In the time this ANI nonsense has gone on I have painted a new hallway and fixed my house and various other jobs, all for no money. Oh and got meself a new house which is in about the same state as these redirects are. The way to get started is to get started. I am a bit fed up nobody else seems to join in, but you can hardly blame me for flooding. Five or six other editors could join in. The fact I am doing it on my own is some testament to why people don't like to edit at WP. Si Trew (talk) 10:09, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

I've copied the comments above this line to the ANI discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 10:46, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * thanks User:Thryduulf. —I think it would only be fair if you take out my hazardous contributsions you also take out all the  and  or whatnot that I do from Eubot without bringing to RfD.  Can  you please copy that in too, User:Thryduulf? And I am sorry if it felt like a personal attack on you. It was not. I think you were wrong to bring it, absolutely and then go "Right, I've warned you, next time, you're at ANI" and then SMACK I am at ANI. That is not how Wikipedia works. Can you please add those comments at ANI because I can't. Si Trew (talk)
 * I've copied that to ANI but don't have time to respond right now. Thryduulf (talk) 10:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I am just clocking in User:Thryduulf or User:Ivanvector I have been busy up a stepladder and have not since I last wrote looked at WP. Sometimes it is best to stay away and I am going to carry on staying away, but clocking in so you don't think I've absconded. Please copy to the discussion at WP:ANI if you wish. I haven't time to read it right now. Si Trew (talk) 07:49, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I know this is the wrong section but may I please tell you all I suffer very severely from manic depression. It will pass, it always does, and crap like citalopram does not work for me. I asked an australian doctor (in England) he asked me "What comes first, the alcohol or the depression?" I said, honestly, "I don't know Doctor". He said, and this is the wisest advise I ever had, "Never seen one without the other". But for me to get out of the house is a real struggle right now.
 * I tell you what it feels like. I try to. The whole world is scary. Sitting at home on a computer typing Wikipedia is OK, I can do that. I can just about manage to walk a kilometre. The walking is not the hard part. But going into a shop is hard. I have to get to the bank to get a new bank card and it is a thirteen minute bus ride and I have the ticket, kinda Oyster pass. It is very scary. I know Bosniak ter very well and there is a beautiful church there but it will be busy with people. People scare me. They don't mean to but it is scary. I will manage, I will put on my blazer and shirt and I will manage. But all the world is scary to me right now. That is what manic depression feels like. I can do loads of jobs around the house but to travel on a bus is very scary for me right now. It will pass and in two weeks I will be able to get anywhere I want. Keleti railway station would be extremely scary for me right now. It happens every year and it passes. I just have to get through it. If you have a broken leg people will help you across the street, if you have a broken mind because it is hidden, inside your body, people do not notice and you have to put on a brave face or stiff upper lip. I can manage but it is very hard without my wife User:Monkap being here, she is in Amsterdam this week. I can manage but it takes me a long time. That is what manic depression is like.
 * Any small job becomes like ten times harder. When other people, people I know, are around I spring out of it and it is fine and we have fun. When nobody is around it comes back. And one notices things a lot more. Trivial things. A pencil needs sharpened or that screw is the wrong size although it would work with a Birmingham screwdriver i.e. slang for hammer (the implication people from the West Midlands will just bash the bloody thing) and it is all fine. To try to translate "Birmingham screwdriver" into Hungarian is hard, here the hardware shop is called a "csarvabolt" (screw shop) and I always wonder whether they sell anzthing other than screws. (They do of course). That kind of translation is hard. There is no Hungarian it seems for False friend although the essay was written by a Frenchman anyway as des faux amis which I have read. It is not appreciated here. Wikipedia has fucked my mind up with translation. You do not know how difficult it is. Anything you cannot do is easy. Si Trew (talk) 09:53, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you know how many Hungarian translators Wikipedia has right now? I checked at WP:PNT because I do them when they occasionally come up. The number of Hungarian translators now at WP:EN is exactly zero. Or "nulla" in Hungarian. This is how editors drive people away from editing. I have a small study with a bookshelf of about a thousand books to check up on linguistic matters. I have been doing that since I was taught machine translation by the best, dr Harold Somers as part of an extra course I took and learned Spanish and Japanese on a Wednesday afternoon when other people were playing rugby. Konishi-wa, I can actually speak Spanish, Japanese, French, Hungarian, English, Latin and a bit of ancient Greek. Some Italian and Romanian being a Latinate language I get by. I sit here on my desk which is ancient with books and books and books to get WP:RS.
 * I'll put it another way. When the missus and I were doing the living room, that is about five metres square on each side but it is not square because it is an old house. I went round the tops with a spirit level to put in the borders on the tops of the wallpaper which is the first time she has done wallpapering, it is a messy job really. Those are all bang on level. Over twenty five metres around four corners including all the cuts into two windows that ended up 3mm out. Over 25m. That is well above engineering tolerance. That is fucking spot on. If you don't think I can do a job you are talking to the wrong person. Oh, and I repaired the parquet floors and I taught the child how to use a saw and stuff on a black and decker workmate and I fixed new lamps and electrics as a properly qualified electrician while speaking two languages, now shove it up your pipe and smoke it. n a shop here in Budapest I found a copy from 1971 of the Hamlyn Childrens Encyclopaedia guess who has it, my nephew, because it is all full colour pictures of how the world works. Now shove it up your pipe and smoke it. Bye bye. Si Trew (talk) 10:48, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

reply
Dear User:Tavix or User:Thryduulf or User:Ivanvector

I see I have been blocked. I have not had any time really to edit Wikipedia to make the encyclopaedia better, which is what I thought it was all about, and so I reply to you now. I have not had time to look at the ANI discussion. I am deliberately not looking at it now.

I dispute the idea that I make personal attacks. Tavix is not Tavix' real name. Thryduulf is not Thryduulf's real name. Simon Trew is my real name and I have to put my foot down because an attack against me, on Wikipedia, could be seen by some lawyers as a legal threat. That is not how it is meant, I know, and I was foolish to use my real name, but I must defend my name. These things over "text" come out a lot stronger than they would face to face. I should learn to calm down a bit when arguing over text.

Please excuse me for not contributing to the ANI discussion but I was pretty much busy up a stepladder doing the living room, which now looks beautiful. Last night I was teaching my eight year old well not nephew but I am a Dutch uncle how to saw and screw and do a bit of woodwork.

I do have more things to do in my life than Wikipedia.

But I believe I contribute in many ways:

- I speak French pretty well and can translate French articles. Old Rouen Tramway I did, which has now been moved over to a different title, I think. Many other contributors speak French - I speak Hungarian daily and can translate Hungarian articles. No other EN:WP contributor can do that, as far as I know - I understand Latin and Greek - I can tell all Lombard-street from a China orange

I think you have just lost one of the most intelligent, hardworking and best contributors to Wikipedia over eight years that you have lost him. I have measured maps and had them on A2 paper stuck up on my windows so I can take the coordinates with a straightedge. I have taken pictures of a bachelor griller which I still have and was used just yesterday to make a chicken spit roast. I have edited god knows how many railway diagrams.

In short, I have contributed my time and effort to Wikipedia. But I understand why Wikipedia loses editors, because it is not appreciated.

Simon Trew BSc MIET MVP. Over and out. Si Trew (talk) 09:00, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I have a bookshelf behind me with French, Hungarian and English dictionaries. a fat Collins Robert and the best Hungarian dictionaries money can by. Translation is just not about words but about checking and trying to get the idiom. On 23 June I will be acting as a tour guide to teach Hungarians in Budapest English, voluntarily, for a week. I find it entirely unfair that because some comments seem hard over text, I get banned. You have probably never been in a court of law, a real one not Judge Judy, and had to vigorously defend yourself. I have. Four times. I have also had to do the adding up, after a car accident, and I said to my barrister not barrista "The judge has got it wrong. He has forgotten to carry the hundred". "Thank you Mr. Trew, that will be two thousand ONE HUNDRED and fifty pounds". Insurance case. If you don't think my intelligence is of any use to Wikipedia, then fuck Wikipedia. Over and out. Si Trew (talk) 09:11, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I speak two languages every day that are not even remotely related, English and Hungarian which linguists classify these days as Finno-Ugric. I also speak French, which is not related to either being a Latinate language. I also do deaf sign. I have picked out old Latin from the Church to translate it so a friend could get records from Somerset House. I have been doing this for many many years. I was teaching a colleague what a Gray code was and how it works. And I do it all backwards like a weather forecaster. I am good. If Wikipedia doesn't want to know about polar geometry in plain words instead of mathematics, that is not my problem. Gordon Bethune says in From Worst to First, the first step to solve a problem is to work out whose problem it is. If it is not your problem, you can just walk away. Well, it is not my problem. I walk away. Bye bye Wikipedia. See you, User:Mjroots who helped me do the diagrams for Hitchin junction but we have not done Cadwell crossing yet but helped me with all the WT:RTD. Do you know how tricky those tiles are to do? I can do csempe tiling in my bathroom in one hour. They take hours to do those RTD. Never mind. Not appreciated. I actually have a French map of the Kingdom of Hungary so I can lay up the coords and get second ref, right on my hand in my study. I must have a thousand books or so in this study. But never mind. Bye bye WP. I am not just not going to edit it, I am not going to look at it. Dear Simon, thank you for all your contributions over the years. Love, Wikipedia. Piece of shit. Jimmy Wales might be famous but the arseholes like me at the back end who actually do the work get no recognition. That is what charity was supposed to mean, I thought: you don't brag about it. I do a song and dance act with beggars in the Budapest Metro to have a bit of fun. I contribute quite a lot to charity, but one is not supposed to say so. Just yesterday I was saying to a chap we were sitting on a park bench your beard (like mine) in English that is called a salt and pepper beard i.e. brown and white. I am that good. I do not understand why everyone in the world thinks I am an arsehole. Jerome K. Jerome said "the world is less colourful now". I try to bring a bit of colour to it. I may get it wrong but I don't do it out of malice. Si Trew (talk) 09:30, 9 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Remember? I'd hate to know you among the missed, too many already. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I will link to this post from the ANI if nobody has done so yet (I've not looked yet). Hopefully it will spur someone uninvolved into actually closing the discussion - you deserve a resolution. I do not want to see you leave Wikipedia, but I would like you to focus your energies on working collaboratively. Thryduulf (talk) 10:11, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Gerda Arendt I didnt even know that was on there, but yes that list says "great right hand man". That is exactly what I am. I support my wife like that, I support my csalad family like that, I am like Prince Philip if you see what I mean I am always one step behind but looking after. I find Wikipedia's treatment of me frankly disgusting. I really do. I want no part in this project any more. Please admin User:Thryduulf delete my account. Delete it, and all the contributions I have made over the years. They must run to the hundreds of thousands but I don't tally that way because it is not important to me. Making the encyclopaedia was the aim, I thought, "imagine a world where everyone could get access to any information they wanted, at any time from any place". We are not there yet, but I tried to make the encyclopaedia better. Si Trew (talk) 10:58, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Deleting an account is not possible. If you want you can request vanishing, see Courtesy vanishing, but I hope you do not. Thryduulf (talk) 11:06, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can be. I am not vanishing anything, I am varnishing. I made a nice table and it needs a coat of laquer. I have to go to the festegbolt and get a tin of sadolin. Really, this is getting ridiculous, User:Thryduulf. To be clear: I have no personal attacks against anyone. How could I have? I have never met any of you in person. How could I attack you personally? I argue vigorously, that is for sure, but it is kinda impossible for me to make a personal attack. I have supported I think User:Ivanvector and User:Steel1983 who I think changed nick after getting admin, I have argued vigorously in favour of them becoming admins. I argue very vigorously. I am an engineer. That is what engineers do. You argue, you state your case, and then you see what happens. To give a counterexample I said when we were doing the living room (please excuse swearing because I am doing it on purpose) "This will take about seventeen fucks and three bas meg") (That is essentially equivalent of "fuck me" in Hungarian). That is just part of the job. I very rarely swear in real life. So those swear words dropped on the floor because they were just part of the job. I really don't like being attacked on Wikipedia. If people cannot defend themselves, with a vigorous but polite argument, then they have no reason to be here. Si Trew (talk) 11:13, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * To me, this is called "doing the ups and downs". My mother was as an accountant for J. Lyons & Co and every single week we did the ups and downs that is to say you run up one side of the book and downside the other so that it balances, as a good bookkeeper should. My wife and I do it every weekend run up the ups and downs so we know where we stand. T. S. Eliot I think has it somewhere "Every penny of the cost". If i see a forint on the street I pick it up and put it in the Currency Cat that is our name for the piggy bank. If you have a missing penny, you need to find that penny. It is missing somewhere in your book. Could be a penny could be a thousand pounds how do you know until you get it checked. This is double-entry bookkeeping. That is just how you do it. I do it with pencil and paper not a calculator. That is just my way of doing it because I was taught mental arithmetic not Rembrandt when I went to school. How do you square up a table? You take the diagonals and they should come out even. That is not any numbers involved with that, Pythagorus could tell you that. If it is level across the diags then it is square. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Because I know more than other people? I spent years at night school and learned this. I am not some stupid arse who knows nothing. Our articles on bookmaking are and have always been useless because they use decimal odds.

I explain here while I have the chance. If you want to do tic-tac then on your wrist, right hand, is five to four. On the elbow five to two. On the shoulder five to one. Other arm that will be sixes so six to four on wrist left hand, six to two that is to say three to one on elbow, three to one on left shoulder. Top of the head nine to two. on your two shoulders a "burlington" that is to say a Burlington Bertie 100/30 that would be eight and six to the pound in old money. Swindle your fingers that is evens i.e. 1/1 bet but you get your stake back too. So if you place at 1/1 or 2/2 which is the same of course you can add your quid back on the stake. The main problem is nobody tells the horses. I backed a horse at twenty to one and it came in at half past four. That is a mug's game depending on which side of the counter you are sitting on. I always have a bet on 26 December at the King George VI Stakes at Kempton Park as it is the missus' birthday so for a bit of fun. Last time I got it in and got seventy quid on a fiver, 14/1 (plus the stake makes 75). You can imagine where that went. Take her out for a meal. There goes seventy quid! I am not stupid. I very much dislike people thinking I am stupid. I fucking been working since I was twelve years old, I am forty-five. I have been doing this before many editors here had forgotten how to shit in their nappies. Si Trew (talk) 11:37, 9 May 2017 (UTC)


 * User:Thryduulf we really need to sort out the bookmaking not bookkeeping articles one day. They are a right mess. Nobody has pictures of people doing tic-tac. These days they mostly use mobile phones. I can draw diagrams but they are all a bit of a mess because it works, you would understand this, on the old pound ie 240 pennies to the pound. So you can divide that in so many ways, so you can get 100/30 a burlington out of it soggy and dirty, 100/30 because it divides eight shillings and sixpence into the old pound. six to four, for example, is an old english crown, and a half-crown, back to give you a pound. It all works like that. What you should always do is ask the bookmaker to give you the "frac". That is to say the difference. You are never going to bet 5/4 if you can get 11/2. Nobody tells the horses, unfortunately, but you're increasing your chances. You'll never win, mug's game, that is why bookmakers shops are everywhere and I can't afford a light bulb. Not very neutral I know. 5/4 over 11/2 gives you a frac of about 8%. Again, I took my father, God bless him, to the July Course in Newmarket Racecourse for a day out, the whole family. I came out seventy quid ahead again. But after paying for the meal and everything it turned out pretty even. My father bet on the nanny goat that is to say the horserace totalisator board, the Tote, I was down in the cheap seats betting across the rails. Mum had a nice day out too. The National Horse Race Museum is in Newmarket, Suffolk we did not live too far away about six miles. I took him for his birthday which was 26 July it happened to be that the July Stakes fell on that day. It was a grand day out. I have done many things. When you live around there you're forever finding horses on the road or horseshoes on the street. A friend of mine actually is/was a blacksmith who shoed all the horses, and I suppose it is not very Wikipedian to say a horse is about the only animal that you can knock a nail into. I am a fountain of useless knowledge. I think Wikipedia would be worse without me. Si Trew (talk) 12:18, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I have wanted for years to draw diagrams or take pictures of me (obviously someone else would take the pictures) of how to do tic-tac. I also speak, if that is probably the completely wrong word, British Sign Language. I don't know if it would be better as a kinda L. S. Lowry pencil diagram or me grinning and gesticulating. They really are a bunch of crap our bookmaking articles. Most are in decimal odds which is I suppose WP:WORLDWIDE but is not what is used in the UK, so there is a problem to sort that out. The tic-tac only gives examples. The "magic sign" run around your head like a halo is to indicate the money is being sent to the course by Ladbrokes, i.e. that there is enough money from betting shops that it is skewing the odds on course. There used to be a betting levy, from the Horserace Totalisator Board (I am not sure why we don't have that, the Tote or "Nanny goat" in cockney rhyming slang and that also has its own sign to signal that essentially the National Lottery (not quite, but as example) were sending money down to the course. It used to be ten percent tax off-course but Thatcher abolished that one, so now it is as cheap to bet off-course as on-course. It's a mug's game either way because when you balance the books you want to take your profit. Ideally your books should balance at about twenty percent profit in a perfect market by the usual John Milnyard Keynes way, it should balance with 20% out. Nobody tells the horses. But it doesn't matter because if you have it balanced, whichever horse comes in you should get 20%. That is essentially Bayesian probability that you can predict the future from the past with a relative degree of certainty. We have nothing on any of this. We have some crap on the mathematics of gambling but it is crap, really, because it was written by a mathematician. When someone says "there is a 30% chance of rain tomorrow" there isn't. There's a probably 95% chance that there is a 30% chance of rain tomorrow, it is a second derivative. Bookmakers do this in their heads all the time. Our coverage of bookmaking is bloody awful.


 * And if you see a miserable bookmaker you know they have had a good day.:) Si Trew (talk) 17:55, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

topic ban from Redirects for discussion
Per community consensus, you are indefinitely banned from Redirects for discussion and all RfD-related pages, subpages and activities, broadly construed, and from nominating redirects for speedy deletion. This topic ban does not cover refining a redirect to point to a section of the page it already pointed to, nor does it cover other redirect-related edits such as tagging.

At this time, there's no consensus for a community ban or an indefinite block. However, if you disrupt Wikipedia in other areas, or if you violate this topic ban, either or both of these options could follow.

This editing restriction is logged here. Katietalk 13:03, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you User:KrakatoaKatie for actually telling me the decision. I think it is a ridiculous decision, Wikipedia will continue to have tens of thousands of crappy index entries listed by User:Champion and churned through by me. If you want crap like or  on your encyclopaedia, you are welcome to them. I don't. That is about as much use as a snake in an arse-kicking competition. "Wikipedia, the unreliable source". Si Trew (talk) 17:59, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * And you may notice from my edit history I very very rarely make new articles. In fact never except when doing translation. I have on my table in my study, I have taken apart and repaired a very old comptometer adding machine and oiled licked and repaired it with a bit of acetone nail polish remover until it is as good as the day it is made. I would like to add a picture of that and a description onto Wikipedia. But now I cannot really be bothered. I am no Alan Turing but I had to do reverse engineering to work out how it works, in two languages, to get the spare parts and stuff. I am that good. These things sell for about a hundred quid in the UK and mine probably for more because I have it all cleaned and working. I don't need Wikipedia. Wikipedia needs me. Bye bye.
 * I would also like to say thanks that without Wikipedia I would not have found the Telephone Museum, Budapest up the hill. It is a hidden gem. The guy who runs it goes every day with a mop of grey hair (I don't know why he can't use a proper mop) and it is an absolute hidden gem (do we have hidden gem?) I have lived in Budapest four years and did not know of it. They have carted the last working L1V exchange in the world up there, piece by piece, and to hear the sound of the Straugers and all the clockwork makes one's heart skip a beat. It is a hidden gem if ever you are in Budapest. Well worth a visit. Si Trew (talk) 18:13, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, User:Thryduulf, User:Champion, User:Ivanvector. I am not planning on starting to edit anything other than the topic ban, but on a matter of just administration, it still comes up for me that I am blocked from editing anything (hence writing here). Is that lifted now, because admin has not lifted it. I plan to put my feet up and watch telly for the first time in six days but can you look into it, just as a matter of administration, if you have the chance. or User:User:KrakatoaKatie. I don't think I'd be able to take pages from WP:PNT at the moment, for example. It says to me I am blocked from editing anything, not just RfD. Oh I forgot, I supported User:Champion's nomination too. Just as a declaration of interest. Si Trew (talk) 18:21, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Pinging, the admin who actually set the current block. Whether or not to lift the block was not discussed at the ANI thread which led to the topic ban. It's currently set to expire automatically on 18 May (see your block log). If you want to place another unblock request, another administrator not previously involved will take a look. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:34, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "I can call spirits from the briny deep. And so can I, and so can any man, but will they come when you do call them?" Shakespeare, The Tempest. Isn't that right User:Plantdrew who I call on for matters horticultural? Plantdrew might like to know my tulips did very well this year in my old cast iron bathtub, I have put out a few god knows what they might be but then I am a man so lazy that he concretes over his window-boxes. Si Trew (talk) 18:25, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

You were initially blocked for 31 hours (as noted a few sections up). This was extended to 3 weeks by Od Mishehu after review at WP:AN (also noted above, but now archived to Administrators' noticeboard/Archive288), and is due to expire at 20:06 UTC on 18 May. This block is separate from the topic ban KrakatoaKatie notified you of at the start of this section. Katie is the uninvolved administrator who closed the AN/I discussion which led to the topic ban a few minutes before notifying you. One bullet point of the close is/was "The three-week NPA block is endorsed" so your full block will not be lifted automatically. If you want to be unblocked before 18 May you will have to appeal using the template in the usual way, and the reasons you give will be assessed by an uninvolved administrator. Thryduulf (talk) 18:41, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

May 2017
 Your ability to edit this talk page has been revoked as an administrator has identified your talk page edits as inappropriate and/or disruptive. ([ block log] • [ active blocks] • [ global blocks] • [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/autoblock/?user=&project=en.wikipedia.org autoblocks] • contribs • deleted contribs • [ abuse filter log] • [ • change block settings • [ unblock] • [ checkuser] ([ log]))

If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you should read the guide to appealing blocks, then contact administrators by submitting a request to the Unblock Ticket Request System. If the block is a CheckUser or Oversight block, was made by the Arbitration Committee or to enforce an arbitration decision (arbitration enforcement), or is unsuitable for public discussion, you should appeal to the Arbitration Committee. Please note that there could be appeals to the unblock ticket request system that have been declined leading to the post of this notice. Neil N  talk to me 19:28, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea what possessed you to add that totally inappropriate post but you can explain it to Arbcom. I will be emailing them. --Neil N  talk to me 19:33, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no idea which totally inappropriate post you refer to. Please add referemces. like editors do. I have no idea about the inner workingings of ArbCom. I am just a humble editor who gets punished for doing voluntary work. Si Trew (talk) 21:48, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:10, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Three years now, and miss you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:43, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hear hear. Jschnur (talk) 22:55, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Five years now, and still miss you --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:50, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Parc de Versailles (July 3)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SophisticatedSwampert was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Parc de Versailles and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the or on the.
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

SophisticatedSwampert let's talk about that 01:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I have been on a long Wikibreak. I imagine before that, I copy-edited over the French article with intent to translate. Unfortunately there was a lot of argy-bargy about foreign-language redirects that I wanted deleted under WP:RFD and WP:RFD as nonsense; I left not exactly in a huff I left in a minute and a huff but because I know it takes time to calm down. I will translate the article if it still is in EN:WP, or start again. It is an article worth having in EN:WP, whereas most of the foreign-language redirects – created by abot from nonsense aglommerations do not. Goed does not exist, even if a bot says it does. Si Trew (talk) 11:36, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Si Trew ... at RfD
No, I am getting temper tamprums by kiddies thowing toys out out of their pram.I am a grown up who can have a reasoned argument, it seems Wikipedia can't. So, Bye bye. "welcome to Wikepdia, the encyclopaediaai that anyone that has the same views as an admin can edit." Bye bye. Si Trew (talk) 15:18, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

__NOINDEX__

NLT block
I've extended your block to indefinite, given your unambiguous legal threat above. This isn't the first time you've been blocked for this, so you knew what that was going to lead to. Honestly, I should probably revoke talk page access, too, but I dunno, I didn't. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you do stuff like this. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 15:59, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

 You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for abuse of editing privileges. In addition, your ability to edit your talk page has also been revoked. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you should read the guide to appealing blocks, then contact administrators by submitting a request to the Unblock Ticket Request System. Alex ShihTalk 17:12, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Site banned from Wikipedia
You are now indefinitely site banned from making any edits, anywhere on Wikipedia, under any and all circumstances, broadly construed, based on the consensus from this community discussion. This community sanction may not be appealed, and is not subject to standard offer at this moment. Please visit here to read about steps to appeal this community sanction. Alex ShihTalk 04:28, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * We do not place bans with no chance of appeal ever. Please see here for details on how community bans may be appealed. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 04:35, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Wording modified, thanks. Alex ShihTalk 04:44, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:OVERDRAFT
Wikipedia:OVERDRAFT, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:OVERDRAFT and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:OVERDRAFT during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Steel1943 (talk) 00:29, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Wikipedia:OVERDRAFT


Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, introducing inappropriate pages, such as Wikipedia:OVERDRAFT, is not in accordance with our policies. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Under section G3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, the page has been nominated for deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:56, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

FLUYT listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect FLUYT. Since you had some involvement with the FLUYT redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Stgpcm (talk) 09:57, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Parc de Versailles concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Parc de Versailles, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:32, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Draft:Parc de Versailles
Draft:Parc de Versailles, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Parc de Versailles and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Draft:Parc de Versailles during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:05, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Cardinal to word
Template:Cardinal to word has been nominated for merging with Template:Number to word. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. – BrandonXLF   (t@lk)  03:41, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Ivanvector/SimonTrew
User:Ivanvector/SimonTrew, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Ivanvector/SimonTrew and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of User:Ivanvector/SimonTrew during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:47, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

"User:SimonTrew/Ivanvector" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect User:SimonTrew/Ivanvector. Since you had some involvement with the User:SimonTrew/Ivanvector redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:51, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago
miss you, still --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:05, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

"Penides" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Penides&redirect=no Penides] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. 162.83.141.156 (talk) 01:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Category:Hungarian wedding has been nominated for merging
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Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of Heuliez Bus company.svg
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Casablanca Tramway RDT
Template:Casablanca Tramway RDT has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 08:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)