User talk:Simon Burchell/Archive 1

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~&#126;); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- Firsfron of Ronchester 09:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Flickr images
An account holder, Mr. Che, (rosemania on flickr) has licensed his museum collection images freely so that they can be used on Commons and WP. I have used 2 of them on Sican Culture--the gold cup and funerary mask. I have also notified Mr. Che of my use of these images. I am willing to place some of his flickr image's from Mexico's Natl museum on Commons so that everyone (on all WP language web sites) can use them. Mr. Che took some pictures here from Mexico's national museum: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/sets/72157594473726635/ If you wish, please give me a link to some pictures and a note on its identity. ie:
 * http// image X : Olmec god/statue
 * http// image Y : Aztec statue of ...X

Just let me know if there are any images which are useful. If you are knowledgeable on Mesoamerican art, you may know what they are. I don't upload objects which I cannot identify. I have to go now as its almost midnight here. I am only trying to help out, nothing more. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 06:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks useful
Thanks for the link - I've had a quick look at the photos and they look very useful - I've visited the museum in question several times and recognise many of the artifacts. I'll post links and identifications where possible, over the coming week or two. Simon Burchell (talk) 23:35, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

First batch
Olmec Head (Head 2) from San Lorenzo, Veracruz.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354090774/in/set-72157594473726635/

Olmec - Foreground: Monument 52 (seated were-jaguar) from San Lorenzo, Veracruz. Background: Olmec Head (Head 6) from San Lorenzo, Veracruz.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354090837/in/set-72157594473726635/

Aztec - Statue of Coatlicue, the earth goddess, from Mexico City.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354091619/in/set-72157594473726635/

Simon Burchell (talk) 18:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Dear Simon. I'll upload the first batch of images on WikiCommons you mentioned and wait for the flickr review bot to approve them. Once it is approved, I'll send them to you. Pls. let me know if there are any more images which you would like to upload in the next week or two--as you suggested. I have the distinct impression that there are not many Mesoamerican objects on Commons....although I stand to be mistaken. Cheers, --Leoboudv (talk) 23:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are the first 2 approved images. Image:Olmec Head from San Lorenzo, Veracruz.jpg and Image:Aztec statue of Coatlicue, the earth goddess.jpg There is a short delay with this image because I cropped them and they will have to be reviewed by an Admin individually. --Leoboudv (talk) 06:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are the remaining ones which was reviewed by a person on Commons. I include a third picture from Rosemania's Met Museum collection on Mesoamerica: Image:Seated Olmec Jaguar from San Lorenzo, Veracruz.jpg, Image:Olmec head from San Lorenzo, Veracruz2006.jpg and Image:Mayan stela from Mexico2005.jpg By the way, is Mesoamerican history a hobby for you like Ancient Egypt is for me or are you a specialist in this field? Just curious, --Leoboudv (talk) 10:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Second Batch
Aztec - The so-called Calendar Stone, from Mexico City.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354091461/in/set-72157594473726635/

Teotihuacán Reconstruction of the facade of the Temple of the Feathered Serpent
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354092483/in/set-72157594473726635/

Olmeca-Xicalanca (Central Mexican/Maya) - Late Classic period. Reconstruction of murals from Cacaxtla in Tlaxcala.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354092111/in/set-72157594473726635/

Leoboudv - I'm not a specialist in the field, but a general interest in archaeology crystalised into a specific interest in Mesoamerica while spending some years living in the region, so it's a hobby...

Simon Burchell (talk) 16:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Query

 * Is this image Maya or Olmec I wonder: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354092111/in/set-72157594473726635/ I just want to place it in the right catalogue --Leoboudv (talk) 06:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, the number of images from the Mexico museum is very low: Its almost laughable sadly at 19. My impression is that this is an important museum...but there aren't many contributors here. One hopes our few images will help. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 06:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

re. query
The Museo Nacional de Antopología is a very impressive museum with an extensive archaeological collection - it is very sad that there aren't more photos - I haven't been there for a few years so I can't remember their policy on photography, I think it's probably no flash photography, and it's not brilliantly lit, which might explain the lack of good quality images online.
 * It is actually Olmeca-Xicalanca, which should not be confused with the Olmec culture, which is a different culture entirely. The Olmeca-Xicalanca are from a much later time period (the Classic). While Cacaxtla is not a Maya site, it received very strong Maya influences in the Late Classic Period and the mural in the photo depicts a Maya eagle-warrior (possibly a forerunner of the later Aztec eagle warriors), with a mixed Central Mexican/Maya style of painting. You could place it in the Maya catalogue if nowhere else seems appropriate but it wouldn't be exactly right - still, Cacaxtla is sometimes mentioned in passing in books on the Maya, because Maya artists are usually considered to have painted the murals in this non-Maya site.

Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 08:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Third Batch
Coiled rattlesnake. Aztec. Not sure where this one was found but is very similar to an Aztec sculpture in the British Museum.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354092159/in/set-72157594473726635/

Aztec. Macuilxochitl (Xochipilli) - Aztec god of song, dance and music.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354092243/in/set-72157594473726635/

Aztec. Coatlicue (at left) and Xiuhtecuhtli-Huitzilopochtli (at right). Both from Coxcatlán, Tehuacan in Puebla state. Coatlicue is the earth-Mother goddess and goddess of the cycle of life and death. Xiuhtecuhtli-Huitzilopochtli is a god of fire and volcanoes.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354091704/in/set-72157594473726635/

Reconstructions of Tenochtitlan, capital of the Aztecs - the centre of modern Mexico City.
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosemania/354092027/in/set-72157594473726635/

Simon Burchell (talk) 18:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

2nd batch
Dear Simon, That museum certainly allows photography. I have seen flickr images from this museum which are dated to as late as 2008. But since they are licensed as 'all rights reserved' or 'No Commercial' or 'No Derivates', they cannot be placed on WikiCommons. By the way, here is the second batch of images:
 * Image:Olmeca-Xicalana murals from Cacaxtla.jpg
 * Image:Facade of the Temple of the Feathered Serpent (Teotihuacán).jpg and
 * Image:Aztec Calendar Stone2006.jpg I cropped out the lady in 1 of the images. I would upload your third batch in a few hours. Regards, from Canada. --Leoboudv (talk) 20:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Here are the Commons images for the third batch: Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 06:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Aztec coiled rattlesnake2006.jpg
 * Image:Aztec Macuilxochitl (Xochipilli).jpg
 * Image:Aztec gods- Coatlique (left) and Xiuhtecuhtli-Huitzilopochtli (right).jpg and
 * Image:Reconstruction of Tenochtitlan2006.jpg


 * FYI, I (try to) place images on WikiCommons (formally Wikimedia Commons) because they can then be used by all foreign language wiki sites. If an image was just uploaded on English WP, it can ONLY be used on English WP sites--not French, German, Spanish, Chinese, Indonesian etc WP sites. So, Commons images are preferred. If you have your own images that you may want to upload, I suggest you create an account here:  before you click the 'upload file' option to place pictures here. Cheers, --Leoboudv (talk) 02:43, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Leoboudv - I'll bear that in mind! Simon Burchell (talk) 09:28, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Another set of flickr images
Tip: I just found another large set of freely licensed images on flickr by Ms. Jami (licensed as Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 or 'cc by sa 2.0') I just told Admin CJLL and Madman about it here today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CJLL_Wright#Can_you_identify_.26_place_these_images_on_Commons You should look at the web link to the set of images at the beginning of my post. (especially page 6-14 on the flickr page) The first set is only page 2 of her images: *http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamidwyer/sets/72157606952714490/?page=2
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamidwyer/sets/72157606952714490/?page=6 (up to)
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamidwyer/sets/72157606952714490/?page=14 This particular flickr owner has *many* more images from the Mexico museum ( see pages 6 through to 14 of her flickr site ) but I don't have the time to upload them (its too many) and don't know what they are. Perhaps you and Madman would want to cooperate here in identifying them. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 22:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Note Simon: If you have identified some images from rosemania's site, pls feel free to place a link here. I think there are still some more good ones in it. His site only has 26 images from the Mexican nat'l museum so I can certainly deal with them. The separate collection by Jami, however, is just massive. --Leoboudv (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for these links Leoboudv - I'll continue to identify the photos as and when I can. Simon Burchell (talk) 18:16, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment. I'll periodically check here for any images you identified from rosemania's collection...as I am sure there are still some excellent images left there. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:20, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * Hi there Simon, have been meaning to drop you a note of appreciation & admiration for some time now, so consider this a long-overdue "thanks" for your thoughtful and quality expansions to Mesoamerican related articles. Your expansions to those Zapotec sites are particularly welcome, an area that receives only sporadic attention at best on wiki. Always glad to see your name pop up in the watchlists, as a sure sign that welcome improvements are being made. Saludos, --cjllw ʘ  TALK 08:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * ¡Muchísimas gracias! It was certainly a shame to see such an important culture as the Zapotec with comparatively little info. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 08:52, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - and a small request
I have noticed a lot of very good contributions from your side to Mesoamerican articles. Thanks for those! And that's a very impressive track record of visited ruins! Now a small request: I surmise that you are the author of this article about phantom dogs in Mesoamerica? I thought it was very good: Being an expert on the topic wouldn't you like to start an article about Dogs in Mesoamerican folklore and myth? Or possibly expand the general article on Dogs in Mesoamerica? That would be a great addition. BTW: upon reading your study I remembered some things my wife had told me about her grandmothers beliefs (My wife is a Nahua from Morelos). She said that whenever someone mistreated a dog verbally or physically her grandmother would tell them to stop since if they didn't the dogs wouldn't help them cross over the river into the realm of the dead, but instead bite them when they tried to cross. She also said that you should never touch the sleepydust of a dog since if you accidentally got it in your eye you'd be able to see into the realm of the dead (and see the ghosts walkign among the living) which would probably make you lose your mind. Since my wife never read your paper or any other academic papers on pre-columbian aztec belief I am convinced that the belief of the dog as psychopomp has lasted into the twentieth century among the catholic Nahuas of Morelos! (And btw I have also heard many tales of evil, black phantom dogs in the crossroads being told in Morelos)·Maunus· ƛ · 14:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comments Magnus, yes I wrote the article, which is a follow-up to the booklet you linked to.


 * My Guatemalan wife has also told me that the K'iche' Maya say you shouldn't maltreat dogs for pretty much the same reason.


 * I had thought about writing a section on dogs in Mesoamerican folklore/myth but hadn't in order to avoid citing myself. However, I think your request will give me sufficient reason to do so, so I'll write something up.
 * I also have a request for you, I have temporarily enabled email on my Wiki account and I would appreciate it if you could email me so we can continue this conversation about phantom black dogs in Mesoamerica - I am always looking for more info.


 * Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 20:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I've now started work on the new article, as you suggested. Simon Burchell (talk) 18:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've just read it - great job!·Maunus· ƛ · 06:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK nomination
Hi. I've taken the liberty of nominating Dogs in Mesoamerican folklore and myth, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Did you know. Today is the last day for nominating this article and I didn't want it to slip by unnoticed. You can see the hooks I've proposed for the article at Template talk:Did you know, where you can improve it if you see fit. Thanks --Bruce1eetalk 06:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for that! Simon Burchell (talk) 09:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Pages that I intend to work on
(How about Chalcatzingo? (sorry for intruding ·Maunus· ƛ · 17:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)))
 * Tlatelolco (archaeological site)
 * Bilbao (Mesoamerican site)
 * Teopanzolco
 * Templo Mayor
 * Xochicalco
 * El Tepozteco
 * Xochitécatl
 * Tizatlan
 * Hi Magnus, it's no intrusion, comments are always welcome, although I'll shortly move this to my talk page. I've not been to Chalcatzingo (yet) so I don't have any local info but I may be able to find something in my book collection...The article already looks fairly lengthy but I'll see if I can find something new. Simon Burchell (talk) 20:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You should definitely go if you have the chance, its an amazing site.·Maunus· ƛ · 20:55, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try to get there the next time I'm in Morelos (whenever that may be...) Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Dogs in Mesoamerican folklore and myth
Congratulations! --Bruce1eetalk 15:39, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Bruce! Simon Burchell (talk) 16:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Your rollback request
Hello Simon Burchell, I have granted your account rollback in accordance with your request. Please remember that rollback is for reverting vandalism/spam, and that misuse of the tool, either by revert-warring with other users, or simply reverting edits you disagree with, can lead to it being removed. For practice, you may wish to see New admin school/Rollback. Good luck. Acalamari 21:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Simon Burchell (talk) 21:43, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! Acalamari 22:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Nahuatl
I have answered your query on my talk page. Cheers. ·Maunus· ƛ · 16:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Xochitecatl WIP
Hi Simon Pardon for intruding: tecatl doesn't mean place. It means a person (often from a place). E.g. Tepoztecatl (metalperson) is the person from tepoztlan (metal place), aztecatl (aztec) means a person from aztlan, tlaxcaltecatl means a person from tlaxcala etc. Don't trust the nahuatl etymologies in most spanish language sources they are normally folk etymologies based on lacking knowledge about nahuatl grammar. There are exceptions of course- but especially INAH's nahuatl materials are bad. Otherwise your work in progress looks very promising. ·Maunus· ƛ · 14:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Maunus! So Xochitecatl means the person of flowers? Could this be understood as plural i.e. the people of flowers, hence the "lineage of flowers" as mentioned in the INAH guide? Although my Nahuatl is practically non-existant, I always used to get confused with the name of Xochitécatl, for some reason I always used to think it was the name of a person - possibly because at the time I went there, I also went to Tepoztlan and was reading about the god Tepoztecatl... Simon Burchell (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No it can't be plural that would be xochiteca(h). It is a very odd name for a place, it doesn't follow any of the normal rules of forming placenames in nahuatl - I doubt that the name was actually used in precolumbian times - it is probably a colonial invention.·Maunus· ƛ · 17:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Xochitecatl
Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 00:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've redone the history section, removed some confusing material and reordered the rest, so hopefully that's all the problems sorted... Simon Burchell (talk) 10:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

TUSC token 256a87da253d167bf6fa6dff2797f25f
I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

DYK for Dos Pilas
A fact from this article appeared in Did You Know on December 28, but the DYK bot failed to send out notices of DYKs on December 28. See Wikipedia talk:Did you know. Presumably someone will generate them soon. I would post the message here right now, but I don't know which template generates that message -- and I don't have time right now to research it. --Orlady (talk) 17:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Great new articles - and a suggestion
Simon, I wanted to thank you for your recent Mesoamerican work -- you are certainly the most active contributor of new information here during the last several months. Keep up the good work. Maybe if I can find some time, I'd love to put together some maps for your recent additions (but don't hold your breath).

Regarding your recent photo File:Takalik Abaj Olmec sculpture 1.JPG, I would suggest cropping out the sides of the photo to better highlight the subject. Cropping sides is particularly important here in Wikipedia because photos are sized based on width (not height). I could do it myself, but thought it would be a bit presumptuous.

And speaking of images, etc., I am do believe that it is important to establish a more-than-default width for many images, particularly those that are discussed in the text. Just an FYI.

Thanks again, Madman (talk) 18:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Madman


 * Feel free to crop the photo to leave just the sculpture, if I don't get to it first.


 * As for the forced image size, I reduced the size on the Takalik Abaj page simply because the article is so short that the images would have overrun leaving a large amount of blank space. I intend to get around to greatly expanding the article when I have finished working on the Dos Pilas article. I also have plenty of new images to upload when I get time (I recently revisited Takalik Abaj) but haven't got around to putting them on Commons or creating a gallery in the article.


 * Thanks for the comments, Simon Burchell (talk) 21:03, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Cropped and re-uploaded. I'll be interested in seeing any other photos you may have.  Thanks, Madman (talk) 22:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I uploaded a photo of Stela 5 yesterday. File:Takalik Abaj Stela 5.JPG. Simon Burchell (talk) 23:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Quiriguá

 * Quite an excellent article. In fact, it is an amazing article -- perhaps the best article ever on a Mesoamerican site.  Thanks for all your hard work.  Madman (talk) 02:01, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, high praise indeed! Thank you! Simon Burchell (talk) 14:06, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the photos
Thanks for the photos, Simon. We have quite an embarrassment of riches here at Wikipedia. Now, if you'll just expand Takalik Abaj the way you did Quiriguá then we'll have room to display them. : ) Thanks, Madman (talk) 02:01, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I keep meaning to go to work on the Takalik Abaj article but then get distracted by something else (Quiriguá for example)...but I will get around to it, sooner rather than later I hope... Simon Burchell (talk) 14:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)