User talk:Simonapro/Archive1

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~&#126;); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- KHM03 (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
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 * PS - I see that you've been here for a few months but were never properly welcomed...so, welcome! KHM03 (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Just perform whatever edit at English translations of the Bible you deem fit. Be WP:BOLD in updating pages, people can just revert you if they don't like it. But your suggestion seems reasonable, so I don't see why there should be an objection. Arbor 19:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

That has already been answered on the page. Read the page.

I will challange your warning. I will delete this and leave it up to moderators to view it to see if I was in the right or wrong here. I have given you links and shown quotes. You obviously reject wiki policy on how to create an archive and have blantantly ignored the fact that Viriditas called me a troll as per my link and quote.

Incivility
You have been blocked for 24 hours for repeatedly removing warnings from your talk page and being incivil in general. What I have told you is fact; while Viriditas should not have called you a troll, that does not give you the right to make accusations about them. And, as I have said before, Viriditas is within his right to remove personal attacks and completely irrelevant discussion from an article talk page. Please consider these points and try to be more civil should you choose to return when your block expires. --InShaneee 23:15, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

About your block. Very unfair and unwarrented. I thought you would know that editing a discussion page is censorship and is not archiving.

How to Archive a Discussion Page
You seem to have some misunderstanding of wiki procedure for archiving a discussion page that has lead you to make accusations of editors 'attacking' others for claiming that they are 'censoring' a discussion page. The claim is actually valid and is not an attack. The wiki procedure for archiving is not deleting another editor's post on the discussion page but involves a procedure which can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_archive_a_talk_page Again, the claim that someone is censoring a discussion page is valid if someone is deleting another editor's post and leaving their own behind without using proper archiving procedure. Please see the archive link for detail on how to archive. Simonapro 23:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)]

On the topic of personal attacks.

My claim is that Viritidas is censoring the discussion page. It is as simple as that. He also called me a troll. I never called him names. You will have to backup that claim. In the meantime I will also be forwarding this complaint to a higher up to see how they will deal with it. If I was to delete pieces of your discussion page and claim I was archiving I am sure you wouldn't be smiling, let alone appreciate a 24 ban for saying it was wrong. Simonapro 23:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)]
 * I apologize for calling you a troll, however your repeated removal of signatures from the talk page was disruptive and trollish. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 00:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * BTW, since you are having problems with your sig, I assume that you have something wrong with your preferences. You may want to edit My preferences > User profile and check your settings.  On this end, it appears that you have an extra bracket on the left side of your sig, which is probably coming from the "Nickname" field in your prefs. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:23, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not accept your apology because it is not sincere. You have called my work on the forum the work of a troll and in your latest post you condone calling me a troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway#Ownership_of_Overgrow.com_web_site_in_dispute. My claim is accurate. Your have not archived the discussion page you have been actively deleting my work. You have attacked me and then claimed that I have attacked you when I did no such thing. You have ignored all reasonable requests and censored the page to ignore my comments. I have now been banned for 24 hours from posting because the person above believes that I should have absolutely no cause to complain about you deleting my work. It is an outrage and getting very serious. My rights on Wiki are being totally violated by both of you.
 * I'm sorry you feel that way. The archive I made of your talk page is here, for the purposes of linking to all the comments you removed.  And yes, I described you as a troll, based on your habit of repeatedly removing signatures    when you were asked to stop. As far as I know, you were blocked for violating WP:CIV.  Perhaps you could use your free time to construct a good argument (as well as find reliable sources) to include content about Overgrow.  I've tried to help you, but I'm afraid I've failed.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You know very well I am not talking about any archive here but on the article in question which has now been locked and you still claim to be making an archive by deleting stuff even though I have shown you that is now how to make a wiki archive. I know I was blocked for WP:CIV because I disagree with that person that you are archiving. You are deleting work not archiving.
 * Then, we are talking about two different things. I was talking about the archive, here, on your talk page. See: .  I "archived" your talk page via a diff link, not by creating an actual talk page.  The refactoring of Talk:Heaven's Stairway was never referred to as "archiving".  You are confusing the two.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 06:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. You have no explaination for deleting content on Talk:Heaven's Stairway nor is there any explaination for deleting content on Talk:Heaven's Stairway. You dealt with objections by deleting them.
 * We disagree. The distinction is essential.  The "explanation" for deleting content on the article talk page was posted: off-topic or personal attacks have no place on the article talk page. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 08:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You dealt with objections on Talk:Heaven's Stairway by deleting them. Then you called me a troll. You also deleted the dispute tag calling it a "drive-by dispute tag" -> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heaven%27s_Stairway&action=history Anybody who assumed good faith would have looked into the matter by simply contacting TOG on icmag and asking them about the history of Overgrow.
 * I want you to understand that this conflict has nothing to do with what I believe. For all you know, I could believe 100% in Overgrow's version of the dispute.  In any case, what you or I believe is inconsequential; we need to make sure the article conforms to Wikipedia policies.  Now, with that said, I would like to see some mention of the dispute on the main article, but at this point, I don't know how we can do that.  One way we could do it is to  attribute the claim to a real person, or a reliable source like a media outlet.  If you can prove that there is a documented connection between the current site owners and the old site, then I don't see why we can't just mention that there is a dispute, and leave it at that, directing users in the external link section.  You've also brought up the possibility that the article should be split off from Heaven's Stairway, and you may have a case for doing just that, but you will run into the same, if not similar problems.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 10:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Now that you want the dispute mentioned on the article that changes many things. What problem do you have with the model I proposed. It set outs the facts of the dispute from each side. I still believe that Overgrow.com should not be merged with Heaven's Stairway because the Overgrow.com article deserved its own full page. It is a much bigger topic than any one seed bank.
 * Please make a note: Did I say that I didn't want the dispute mentioned? No. You simply conflated a policy issue with a personal preference, and you chose to make this a personal conflict rather than an issue regarding reliable sources.  Now that this is cleared up, hopefully, we can move on.  Both sides should certainly be represented (as per NPOV) as long as we use credible sources. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 03:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

You deleted the mention of the dispute from the article. You dealt with objections to this on the discussion page by deleting the objections. There is no personal conflict nor has there ever been. Viriditas did the deletions and objected to the sources. I complained that Viriditas was deleting the objections relating to this. You said I was attacking you and called me a troll. You also deleted the dispute tag put there by user 23:56, 20 April 2006 Polotet (no opinion on content dispute, but while it runs let's keep a dispute tag on) and you called it a "drive-by dispute tag" -> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heaven%27s_Stairway&action=history On the topic of sources, Anybody who assumed good faith would have looked into the matter by simply contacting TOG on icmag and asking them about the history of Overgrow. Did you do that?
 * Please try to discuss the issue of Heaven's Stairway without mentioning my name. The issues you bring up in your above response have been addressed already. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 01:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

(1)"I would like to see some mention of the dispute on the main article" - Viriditas. Please explain. Why would you like to see some mention of the dispute in the main article. (2)Anybody who assumed good faith would have looked into the matter by simply contacting TOG on icmag and asking them about the history of Overgrow. Did you do that? Simonapro 08:35, 26 April 2006 (UTC)]

Heaven's Stairway
Tom go across to Heaven's Stairway and have a good look at the discussion page while it is still there. Basically this can be solved by anybody who assumes good faith and looks into the matter by simply contacting TOG on icmag and asking them about the history of Overgrow. That is what I want objectors to see. Have a nice day. Simonapro 09:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)]
 * hey, will you accept me as a mediator in the case of Heaven's Stairway? If so, or if not, please discuss it here for the moment: User talk:Irishpunktom/Heaven's Stairway - Thanks! --Irishpunktom\talk 09:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Does that mean you will not be engaging in the Mediation process? --Irishpunktom\talk 10:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey I have no problem with any discussion about any topic anywhere on wiki. As for the one Heaven's Stairway it would be possible to have a discussion if Viritidas did not keep deleting discussions there. I hope you have some luck actually being allowed to voice an opinion there without it being deleted :) I will certainly look at anything you write. Simonapro 17:26, 25 April 2006 (UTC)]
 * You were asked about participating in mediation. You were not asked about an opinion about me. Please try to discuss the issue of Heaven's Stairway without mentioning my name.  You've expressed interest in sourcing the dispute and splitting the article.  There's no need to discuss "me" when it comes to those issues.&mdash;Viriditas | Talk 01:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

You haven't answered those issues here so I have placed those issues on Heaven's Stairway Simonapro 10:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)]

Avoid duplicate links on a page
Regarding this recent edit, please see WP:CONTEXT: "there's hardly ever a reason to link the same term twice in the same section." &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 02:42, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I have reported this as Wikipedia:Harassment WP:HA. See "Wikistalking". Simonapro 11:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)]


 * What he's trying to tell you is wikipedia policy about linking, and you should take his advice. And no, I don't consider trying to teach another user correct writing style 'stalking', but rather 'kindness'. --InShaneee 16:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

WP:HA

That is wiki policy. He has called me a troll twice. I am also reporting InShanee for aiding Viritidas in this. Simonapro 16:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)]


 * You never linked to any instance of him calling you a troll, and anyway, you are completely misunderstanding that policy. There is a huge difference between harrassing someone and correcting their mistakes to make this a better encyclopedia. And anyway, if anyone is in violation of this policy, it's you for your repeated threats to report people here and there for the most banal things. Try to calm down and work with other editors rather than against them. --InShaneee 16:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I have done my best is that is all I can do. Viritidas has violated two out of three parts of the WP:HA policy in a nutshell. The second time he called me a troll is on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway In short it is my right to be able to use wikipedia without being harrassed (wikistalked) or called a troll twice, the second time after the user apologised for calling me troll (as per above). Simonapro 16:42, 2 May 2006 (UTC)]


 * He is not calling you a troll in that diff, he is saying that if you continue to violate policy, your activity will be construed as trolling, which is true. Now stop accusing him of harrassing or stalking you, as that's not what he's doing, and further accusations to that effect will be taken as personal attacks. In the comment above, he is stating a very clear policy that I believe you weren't aware of before and one that must be followed. If I were in your shoes, I'd be thanking him for pointing it out to you politely. And I'm sorry, but 'your best' is not acceptable. Wikipedia users are expected to be respectful at ALL times, not just when they can. --InShaneee 16:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Current_requests Simonapro 17:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)]

Turns out on the arbitration request that InShanee knows Viritidas. I think it would have been better for all concerned if a neutral moderator had been involved. Simonapro 20:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)]

Arbitration
InShanee. Without insulting me or claiming that I am attacking you, can you kindly, in good faith, explain your statement "...has done nothing but troll (primarily on Talk:Heaven's Stairway, reverting anyone he disagrees with, and insulting and threatening anyone who attempts to open a diolouge with him (this being the latest result of that)." with references to other articles where I have done this and where I have threatened or insulted anyone else on another article. Could you also explain why asking for arbitration is insulting and threatening? Simonapro 21:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)]
 * Because for one, I feel fairly confident that it's completely without merit, and two, if you would read some wikipedia policies, you would see that arbitration should only be used as the last step in a long mediation process. --InShaneee 16:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Record of my arbitration Statement:
In the process of this dispute I have been called a troll twice by Viriditas. Once at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway#Ownership_of_Overgrow.com_web_site_in_dispute and the second time again after he apologised the first time at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway. However I would not be here if it was not for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Simonapro at the bottom where even though a dipute is going on Viritidas is now wikistalking me on another article. See lower section on mytalk page "Avoid duplicate links on a page".

InShaneee has already banned me for 24 hours for editing my own talk page. He also says that I have no right to stop Viritidas from editing a discussion page and removing my posts on the discussion. He also says that I have no right to accuse Viriditas of stalking me. I believe that InShaneee is wrong. I have a right not be called a troll (I acknowledge that eventually InShanee agreed this was wrong the first time, but thinks the second one is good faith). I also have a right not to be called a troll by InShanee. I have never had problems like this in the past with anyone. I am working with the mediator on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway to move things forward for a better article. Being 'Civil' does not mean enduring repeated attacks and harrasement. I am working on other articles with other contributors and have NEVER experienced these kind of major distruptions to my overall enjoyment of wikipedia. :)

I also have a right not to be wikistalked. I also have a right to point out that my discussions should not be edited from a discussion page. I believe I am allowed to state my case without been banned for doing so. I just want the attacks and harrasement to stop. User:InShaneee has not been helpful and I believe neither parties are now acting in good faith. Good faith would be to recognize that you are already in a dispute and not to start another dispute with the same person over another wiki article. Banning me was not helpful and is one of the many reasons why I have had to come here. I have been told by Inshanne that even Requests for arbitration are considered attacks (insulting and threatening). I don't believe I should be abused and cornered and told to keep shut about it. I believe that my reason for coming here should be taken in 'good faith' and not as some kind of a ploy. I also shouldn't have to come here and do this. The bottom line is that I want the attacks and harrasement to stop. Thank you for your time. Simonapro 16:33, 3 May 2006 (UTC)]
 * Hi. I wanted to reply to your allegation of "Wikistalking".  According to my contribution history, I have been editing Cannabis (drug) since July 17, 2005 with a total of 42 edits to the article and two edits to the talk page.     Since this article has been on my watchlist for almost a year, and since I did nothing but comment on an edit you made to this article that showed up on my watchlist, I fail to see how my actions translate as "wikistalking".  As far as I can tell, you've only been editing the article since March of this year, with a total of ten edits.   If, however, I had followed you to an article that I had no prior history of editing, and if I had made a comment or an edit in regards to you, you might have a point, but that is not the case. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:41, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Tilde
Please remember to sign all of your posts on talk pages. Typing four tildes after your comment ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) will insert a signature showing your username and a date/time stamp, which is very helpful. Ardenn 00:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)