User talk:Sitush/Archive 9

I did open an SPI case against Titodutta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/TitoduttaBrahmanAdvaita (talk) 17:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I take offense to that. I should have been the main guy and Tito the Sockpuppet. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 17:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my orange bar notification thing is playing up again - sometimes I see it, sometimes I do not. I'll take a look at the case that BA has linked & pass any comments that I see fit. Obviously, I am not involved in the SPI process in any capacity other than as a normal contributor here. I am slightly surprised that I have not been named: there was a spell last year when I was reported by all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons, and it all came to nought. - Sitush (talk) 17:38, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't being serious there. This is a first for me, so you can understand a bit of excitement at my end. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 17:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I realised that ;) Wait until you get reported at WP:ANI: my first couple of times there had me crapping myself really, really excited even though I knew I was in the right. Meanwhile, BA can hopefully still provide the discussion link that I requested. Indeed, they may already have done so. - Sitush (talk) 17:49, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello, Sitush, if you know any checkuser, can you ask to do the investigation as quickly as possible please? It will be really helpful. I have lots of pending works! -- Tito Dutta  ✉  17:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I just keep playing the scenario in which I turn out to be Tito's Sockpuppet again and again in my head. If I was actually Tito, this would be the most elaborate and dexterously planned con on Wikipedia ever. So Tito, as CK, would intentionally insert OR in the Varna (Hinduism) page, so as to get involved in an edit conflict with you, so that you would always believe I and Tito were different (one of us was an experienced editor and the other an amateur). Then Tito would add 1500 edits before using me in a conflict. Finally, he would actively engage in a schizophrenic conversation for over 50 posts before finally using me (CK) in an edit war. Amazing stuff!! CorrectKnowledge (talk) 18:03, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * CorrectKnowledge, just curious, where do you live? I live in Kolkata, India. Ignore it if it is too personal! -- Tito Dutta  ✉  18:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Far from Kolkata, so no worries. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 18:03, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * x 2. is a CU but I don't see any great urgency here and I'll be miffed if it turns out that my gut instinct regarding your two is wrong. Just carry on doing your stuff and don't sweat the report. A recent ("successful") SPI filed by me took the best part of a week to sort out because of the horrendous backlogs - we need more admins, although I'm pretty sure Jimbo was repored saying yesterday that we do not! The basis of the SPI report looks like a slip of the pen/memory lapse situation to me, rather than a Freudian slip. Nonetheless, I can sort of see why BA might have concerns if hey haven't really dug around your histories and so it is made in good faith. - Sitush (talk) 18:06, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I refer both of you to the big red sign at top right of this page ;) - Sitush (talk) 18:09, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I realize Tito has a lot more at stake here and I shouldn't be enjoying this. But, I agree with Sitush, BA had good reasons to file that report. Not only was there a slip (Freudian or not), we seemed to be cooperating exceedingly well on the BG article, almost too well for two different persons. Just look at our other conversations on the same page. And finally, BA would have noticed, both of us are on friendly terms with Sitush. :) CorrectKnowledge (talk) 18:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, your page always has the funnest stuff on it. FWIW: I agree we need more admins. Have you considered an RFA run yourself? Kevin Gorman (talk) 18:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's real fun when people post here telling me that I am the product of a relationship involving my mother and a dog etc! RfA was mooted a few months ago. The news report that I saw is here. - Sitush (talk) 18:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Caste system in India
I can't make sense of that lead at all. How do you square this circle? "The Jātis were grouped by the Brahminical texts under the four well-known caste categories ... various contemporary scholars have argued that the caste system was constructed by the British colonial regime." Maybe there's some background I'm missing, but the lead seems to me to be bordering on the incomprehensible. Malleus Fatuorum 20:30, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't know about the others, but "constructed by the British colonial regime" is definitely a misinterpretation of Nick Dirks. Dirks says that castes existed before the British but that, and I'm probably paraphrasing him poorly, the system became solidified during colonial rule. The text quoted by Malleus above seems to imply that the system did not exist at all prior to the arrival of the British. --regentspark (comment) 20:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I used the phrase "complete mess" but we agree. As you have noted on the talk page, it is a touchy subject. Apostle appears to have an interest in sociology, perhaps even a professional one. They've done quite a lot of decent stuff regarding detail in the thing and they've found their way through a few talk page scraps, so I've pretty much let it drift for a while and just kept a watching brief over the talk page. The problem is now one of internal contradictions, lack of clarity, bloatedness, overly-technical language/buzzwords etc. Basically, it has grown like Topsy and it needs some input from people who have competence in seeing the big picture. In a sense, knowledge of the detail does not matter too much right now: if the big picture throws issues, such as those you mention, then the talk page should be hit. I just need to find some time because I am getting pulled in all sorts of directions at the moment. As to your query, well, there are numerous theories of origin because the entire concept of caste is itself a moving target. Some see it as being a socio-religious structure that can be traced to the ancient mythological texts that were composed and promoted by the groups that became known as brahmins; others see it as a more or less equally ancient stratification based on occupation, almost like a primitive division of labour (upper class, middle class, working class etc); some see it as basically an administrative construct, often ascribed to the Raj period when we Brits started counting people and courting favours etc (a theory particularly beloved by the Hindu nationalists, such as the BJP and RSS); and yet others see it as a more modern socio-occupational structure. Then there are those who see it as familial groupings, supporting the practise of endogamy for one reason or another. Issues such as sanskritisation arise and, of course, the entire concept has its own current contradiction because the Indian constitution made caste illegal in 1947 and yet the government even today relies on caste as a means of - for example - deploying its positive discrimination/social engineering policies. - Sitush (talk) 20:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is, as you suggest, a mess, so I suppose the article reflects that confusion quite accurately in being incomprehensible and contradictory. Malleus Fatuorum 21:03, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The phrase "damned by faint praise" springs to mind! You are, of course, correct. And, honestly, this is one of those articles where input from people who lack knowledge would be a positive. We never have had that chat regarding how the heck I got involved in this stuff but it will happen and, believe me, it is bizarre. I knew little then and many will say that I still know little .... but the Wikipedia construct should at least bring some sort of order to things. It may well be the wrong construct and the WMF actions are certainly not making life any easier, but there we go. - Sitush (talk) 23:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope we will have that discussion one day; before I met you I'd imagined that you were an Indian yourself, rather than a Caucasian basketball player, judging by your height. But as you know, I'm on a very short leash here, only tolerated, not welcomed. Malleus Fatuorum 23:28, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Your leash is very long as far as I am concerned, and you are very welcome on this page. In the unlikely event that the community should think otherwise, you would still be more than welcome in my world. I have a life outside Wikipedia and would count you among those whose presence would bring light to it. And, yes, I played pro basketball ... but pro basketball in the UK back then was, well, amateur/semi-pro (expenses + £10, basically ... on a good night). I had a game against the Globetrotters in Edinburgh (woo-hoo) and I played agains Alton Byrd, who as a shortarse was phenomenally awkward to deal with, but hey, I was pretty crap then and am far more so now. In fact, there are days when I can barely get down the stairs due to the amount of metal in my body/broken bones etc. Beer helps! - Sitush (talk) 23:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I said above that "your leash is very long". Have you ever come across the concept of "infinity + 1"? That is pretty much how long it is. It would take a lot to piss me off. - Sitush (talk) 23:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have, and the even stranger idea that 99.999 recurring equals 1. I had a conversation with a mathematician some time ago, who was rather surprised at my naivety in believing that there was only one infinity; I had to make my excuses and leave. Malleus Fatuorum 23:49, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You, being an informed chap, will be aware of the claimed oxymoronic nature of "military intelligence" ... "conversation with a mathematician"? - Sitush (talk) 03:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Braj Kumar Nehru
I have improved and formatted the article Braj Kumar Nehru & also included some images from the JFK presidential archives. However, the link to the Indian Ambassador to the United Kingdom (category) doesn't seem to be working. Not sure how to make that happen. Do you mind taking a quick look and keying in a few words in its talk page. Any further inputs would be appreciated (not in a hurry) -Ambar wiki (talk) 18:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I just managed to fix this issue myself. However, could you take a quick look at the latest Kashmiri Pandit article draft in my Sandbox [Ambar:Kashmiri Pandit]. Also see if you could do a quick review of [Ambar:Kaul] -Ambar wiki (talk) 02:36, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not fully sure, but most probably Sitush is on a very brief (1–2 day(s)) wikibreak! -- Tito Dutta  ✉  02:41, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

SPI and etc!
Thanks! It is a relief, it is a relief. I am amazed to see work in Russian Wikipedia on this issue, I have posted in Bhagavad Gita talk, will you please comment? -- Tito Dutta  ✉  17:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Pranab Mukherjee
Hey Sitush I need your feedback on the Pranab Mukherjee article. I did substantial work on it and hopefully it is of encyclopedia quality now. Please take a look and suggest further changes before I submit it to an assessment. I wont pretend its of good article status but hopefully its good enough to get something better than its current C grade. Cliniic (talk) 17:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

just editing to let you know the article has been rated to B class regards! Cliniic (talk) 10:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Map changes
Hi. Thanks for your guidance. Shikarpur, Gujarat - You helped me to create this page. Now, one user named wantsallanger has changed the map, by inserting State map, instead of India map. I am of the contention that, in respect of IVC sites, India map is more appropriate, because, it will easily show the distribution of the IVC. Interestingly, that particular user has changed more than 170 maps from India to respective states on 23rd July 2012 itself! I have put a message on his talk page. But, such en-mass changing of maps from contry to state, may not be appropriate without considering the background in which the particular map is inserted in first place, to respective article? that user has changed more than 250 maps in last one week or so! will it be ok for any user to change en-mass the maps? Can you guide! Thank you.Rayabhari (talk) 11:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that you should raise the issue at WT:INB. You cannot possibly deal with discussions concerning the same general issue on 250 separate articles & so some views from the India project might be useful. If you do raise the issue there, I'd suggest that you also let wantsallanger know so that they can join in if they wish. - Sitush (talk) 12:01, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

TOI
I remember through some past discussion (can't remember which) that you don't have any good impression about TOI. And i sort of agree with you on that. (Did i then say i don't agree with you? Can't remember that either.) Although some articles in it might be reliable and not undue and hence worth using as source, it does not apply to the whole publication. Ofcourse no one is perfect. But recently in few AfDs people have thrown on my face TOI's article stating how media cares to write about subjects and thus they pass GNG. All trivial articles like someone went on honeymoon somewhere, someone fell down and broke their ankle, someone is learning to cook, etc. Also another such case can be found here where one TOI's trivial article is questioned. But i wonder if you had done something on this issue in some official forum. And if yes, what was the result? §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 07:37, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally, I feel TOI, of late, has lost its "stature" or whatever due to various issues and goof-ups. I don't think the reliability of the TOI sources are in question. Triviality is a different matter and is subject to opinion; turns out there are many people who do care about many of the things some of us consider trivial. For instance, I do not care in the least bit what the Duchess of Cambridge's sister wears, but apparently there are people who do. NDTV yesterday carried a two minute long piece (in primetime) on Justin Bieber's visit to Australia, and I don't care what the chap does and where he goes. Entertainment news caters to a different readership, and it may be so that we don't appreciate it. Sitush, can you throw some light on how sources like The Daily Star and The Sun are considered on WP? Some Englishmen I know consider them to carry largely trivial news.  Lynch 7  08:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally speaking, I've never found the Toiletpaper of India to be readable. Sometime last year they ran a front page promotional headline about a college and didn't disclose that they were monetarily involved in it. However, for a lot of things, especially those not written by "Staff correspondents", they could be used. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  08:11, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt very much that the Daily Star, The Sun, the Daily Mail, The Mirror or The Daily Express would usually qualify as reliable sources except for stuff about themselves. These UK papers all sensationalise and have dubious editorial practices etc that make them far too suspect. Do we use The National Enquirer much, I wonder? I don't care what Justin "The Duchess" Bieber wears when he visits Cambridge either ... and it certainly is not encyclopedic. Not even if he tweets it ;) - Sitush (talk) 08:18, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ofcourse triviality is a point of opinion. And it can be taken care through reaching consensus. If many editors believe it to be trivial, it should not go in encyclopedic articles. That would be the way to handle whether a certain content should be present in the article or not. But do trivial mentions in newspapers denote subject's notability? Especially when the article talks nothing else. Eg: Here the actress fainted!, This article says the subject misses home-made food and is hence learning to cook. In this next one they report that the actress will be seen in Bengali attire but don't even care to mention where and how and when. Editors have commented in AfDs that even if these reports seems trivial, when a newspaper; largest read English newspaper of India, one of the oldest newspaper; cares to report such trivial things, the subject must be considered as notable. I cannot say anything there on how TOI does note such genuinely trivial things as news as it sound like my personal opinion. But if many editors have similar opinions on TOI, which are established at some common forum maybe through some RfC or whatever fancy way you guys suggest, it might hold some water. Its impractical to get everyone weigh in every AfD or discussion. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 10:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Alas, I fear that we are losing that larger battle. Wikipedia is dumbing down, is moving a long way from being encyclopedic and is instead becoming a compendia of gossip, passing mentions, hype and fan cruft. It seems to be an inexorable process and I for one am thinking of just walking away from the whole thing. - Sitush (talk) 11:03, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * But we should voice this concern somewhere else also. Maybe the first time we won't be heard. But it might gather more similar thinking editors. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 12:38, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * We need to fight that inexorable dumbing down, and start helping readers to dumb up. Only today (don't you just love TFA day?) I was involved in a discussion in which the phrase "river navigation" was first of all suspected of being grammatically incorrect, and then of being jargon. Needless to say it's still there in the article though, and it's going to stay. Malleus Fatuorum 20:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey! You want to quit? I will give you another reason. WP:CHEAP says redirects are cheap. (I wasn't aware of this essay before.) Thus almost every article under AfD can be redirected. Even after all editors voted delete, closing admin has decided to redirect, well... because they are cheap and they could be searchable terms! §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 11:16, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Which discussion was it? I tend not to follow AfD stuff, even when I report something, so I've no idea what you are referring to. Yes, redirects are cheap but they are not always appropriate ... and the "D" in AfD is "discussion", not "deletion". Who ever closes has to judge consensus, which is based on policy arguments rather than a vote. - Sitush (talk) 11:33, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No! Nothing in particular of your interest. These were all trivial song articles. See this if interested. Was just sharing some frustration. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 12:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Rodiya
I saw your edits on the article, was wondering what do you think about the sexploitation picture in the article. These were taken of native women (always bare breasted) by colonial photographers and sold for cash as soft porn but now they are finding themselves in Wikipedia articles, only on "lower caste" articles, never the "higher caste". Thanks Kanatonian (talk) 16:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that "sexploitation" might be pushing it a bit. I have no idea if these things were once sold as soft porn. I do know that this form of (un)dress was normal attire and that there is a very good reason why you do not see such things in higher caste articles - see, for example, Upper cloth controversy. There have been various discussions regarding what type of image is suitable for such articles - including at WT:INB - and these historic images seem to be accepted. Montages of modern folk are much more contentious, per User:Sitush/Common. - Sitush (talk) 16:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Maratha
A number of Maratha warriors, including Shivaji's father Shahaji served the various Muslim kingdoms of the day. Shivaji's mother Jijabai was the daughter of Lakhuji Jadhav, a nobleman from Sindkhed Raja. The Maratha clans and their subdivisions were also involved in fighting amongst themselves, until Jijabai started a trend towards greater Maratha unity. They also took up various other professions like writers, poets, landowners, ministers, etc.

Do u have any doubt that Shahaji served various Muslim kingdoms like Bijapuri Sultanate and Ahmadnagar as already in the reference or Jijabai was not married to Shahaji or she was not daughter of Lakhuji Jadhav? What is the problem with these sources? 180.241.225.31 (talk) 07:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Wrong venue - this needs to be at the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 07:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

UBC Faculty of Medicine
Last year you PRODded this, and I deleted it. It has now been re-created, and I have restored the history of the previous version - see User talk:JohnCD - and am letting you know in case you want to consider AfD. JohnCD (talk) 10:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I'll give them a bit of time to fettle it per WP:N etc. - Sitush (talk) 10:23, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Flag committee
If you don't get your way in one article, best is to create a POV fork! I think the flag article just ought to be stripped of its FA status and crap allowed to be added, then at least we might not have this going on in different places. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  06:00, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * this what I expected from the User:SpacemanSpiff, you know you have no knowledge of what research is about. You are wasting my time and creating more obstacles on my way. --Dilpreet Singh (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If you consider WP:CONSENSUS to be an obstacle to what you wish to do then perhaps Wikipedia is not the place for you. It is one of the fundamental concepts here because it ties in with our collaborative ethos. - Sitush (talk) 11:36, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not saying the WP:CONSENSUSis an obstacle --Dilpreet Singh (talk) 12:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, umpteen people - including some who are completely uninvolved - have told you that your arguments are contrary to a substantial and very recently ascertained consensus. There is therefore little to be gained by trying to overcome what ever it is that you consider to be an obstacle. I refer you once more to WP:IDHT - if you keep this up then you may find yourself in a rather more frustrating position than merely being on the "wrong side" of consensus. It is already very evident that you have quite substantial problems with English language comprehension. These may be affecting your understanding both of our policies and (incorrectly) of the sources that you have given. I am sorry but there is not much I can do about that. Nor is there much I can do about your apparent support for a revisionist fringe theory, except to say that you are entitled to your opinion but not necessarily to state in in an article. - Sitush (talk) 12:51, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit dispute
Hey Situesh I am currently involved in an edit dispute on the Pranab Mukherjee talk page. can you please look into it when you have the time? Here is the relevant section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pranab_Mukherjee#Controversy. The user agreed that sources he presented were not reliable but now is presenting a Sunday Times article by Ram Jethmalani. Cliniic (talk) 15:08, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that a GA review has begun, so it is best that I let the reviewer do their stuff. To be honest, if it was me who was reviewing the thing then I would fail it right now on the grounds of stability. You are rushing at this thing, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 16:31, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh I did not nominate it for a review. It was someone else. btw can you please look into the edit dispute?? Cliniic (talk) 16:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, sorry, I assumed that it was you who nominated. I've read the talk page section but am not willing to get involved until the reviewer has completed their stuff. Chopping and changing while a review is in progress makes life very difficult because the article is a moving target. Hopefully, the reviewer will speedily decline - they certainly should, IMO. - Sitush (talk) 16:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I am not requesting you to edit but just look into the controversy talk page. do you think any of the alleged "controversies" are notable enough to merit their own section? I dont think so. I had a discussion about this once with Lynch7 and he agreed, pointing out the L.K Advani article where he integrated the controversies into the main body. Also do you think Ram Jethmalani is a reliable source? not that what was written in the article supported some of the statements he made. I dont know why the user put it up..maybe he is arguing that the alleged controversies are notable to merit their own section?? Cliniic (talk) 16:52, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

btw the Rajiv Gandhi article is also a complete mess. many parts of the article cites a book that claims Sonia Gandhi is a KGB agent. Is that WP:RS?? I would have made the changes long ago but I dont feel comfortable taking on the issue. its very daunting. Also the article places many section which should be under the domestic and foreign policy section in the controversies section? Do you agree that is POV pushing? If people insist they be seen as controversies they inevitably will be seen as such. Cliniic (talk) 16:56, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am aware of the potential issues. The reviewer has said that they are going to fail the nomination & so I'll take a look at the detail later. The article needs quite a lot of work aside from the content dispute issue. - Sitush (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

allright thanks Sitush! Cliniic (talk) 17:00, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse
My sources are not dubious. I do not have a habit of writing inaccurate things on wikipedia, and my sources include the telegraph and websites that are trustworthy. Now I admit my link to the telgraph didn't work properly, sadly I am new at this posting links but TBH most of my links are not hard to find. There hundreds of news articles about her paying for the guy to have the life saving surgery you just have to type in the article amy winehouse saves man's life and you will find it.. At least one of my sources takes you to the article the one for the list of charities and her being a soft touch. --Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 20:36, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The entire section was very poorly written, and the burden is on you to source things correctly. Treat it as a learning experience. - Sitush (talk) 20:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea how to source things correctly can you tell me how or at least tell me where I can learn. Also can you maybe tell me what was wrong with how it was written. Was it my punctuation and grammar or did I make it too personal, sorry to ask but I would like to know as it one of the first things I have written on wikipedia. --Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 17:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Pallava article
Please have a look at Pallava dynasty. This alteration by Lifebonzza is a small example - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pallava_dynasty&diff=503346879&oldid=503328871 Compare it with what i wrote and how Lifebonzza used the same sources (numismatics society, Gangoly, Alī Jāvīd and Tabassum Javeed) to misquote (am putting ref as REF to make references visible):

ORIGINAL (what i wrote) : The Pallavas gained prominence after the eclipse of the Satavahana dynasty, whom the Pallavas served as feudatories. REF: The journal of the Numismatic Society of India, Volume 51, p.109. REF: Alī Jāvīd and Tabassum Javeed. (2008). World heritage monuments and related edifices in India, p.107 http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=54XBlIF9LFgC&pg=PA107&dq=pallava+feudatory+satavahana&hl=en&ei=GdG3TvPDEITtrQfDuNjDAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAQ#v=snippet&q=feudatories&f=false The Sangam literature epic Manimekhalai describes that the first Pallava king, Ilam Thiraiyan (or younger Thiraiyan), was born of a liaison between a Naga princess named Pilli Valai (Pilivalai) and a Chola king named Killi (Killivalavan). Ilam Tiriyan was lost in a ship-wreck and found washed ashore with a twig (pallava) of the Tondai creeper, Cephalandra indica, coiled around his ankle. Hence he derived the name Tondai-man from the Tondai creeper. He became an independent ruler and the territory ruled by him came to be known as Tondaimandalam, or 'Realm of the Tondai'.REF name="Gangoly"

ALTERED VERSION (content changed by Lifebonzza yet retaining my sources which imply or state no such thing as Lifebonzza writes) :

In the inscriptions of the medieval Telugu Cholas, descended from the Sangam Chola emperor Karikala Chola who ruled in 180, the monarch's subordinate king Trinetra Pallava lost his third eye for refusing to carry out orders to construct the floodbanks of the Kaveri River. An ancient Chola-Nāka alliance at Nainativu and succeeding Pallava-Naka liaisons marked the dynasty's formative years. Of this lineage, Ilandiraiyan, a younger contemporary of King Karikala Chola became an independent ruler of Tondaimandalam around 200, stretching his Tondaiyar-Thiraiyar domain passed the Tirumala Venkateswara Temple, Tirupati whose construction he consecrated. REF Centering their authority in Tondai Nadu, Ilandiraiyan's descendants gained prominence as one Pallava line ruling Kanchi from 220. REF The journal of the Numismatic Society of India, Volume 51, p.109 REF Alī Jāvīd and Tabassum Javeed. (2008). World heritage monuments and related edifices in India, p.107 http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=54XBlIF9LFgC&pg=PA107&dq=pallava+feudatory+satavahana&hl=en&ei=GdG3TvPDEITtrQfDuNjDAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAQ#v=snippet&q=feudatories&f=false

There are too many misquotes like this. He reverted my corrections. What do you suggest?

--&#61; No &#124;&#124;&#124; Illusion &#61; (talk) 14:23, 26 July 2012 (UTC)Mayasutra


 * You do not appear to have tried to discuss the issue on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 14:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Quite clearly there is no point discussing stuff on talk page. Please take a look at past edits of Lifebonzza in other articles to see what i mean. Also, personally, not interested in arguing this out with Lifebonza. Just bringing this to your notice. Leave it to you and admin how you wish to handle this. Regards.--&#61; No &#124;&#124;&#124; Illusion &#61; (talk) 14:39, 26 July 2012 (UTC)Mayasutra


 * If you have not tried to discuss then I am mystified as to how you can be so sure that it is pointless. While there is nothing wrong with bringing issues to the attention of others, simply dumping stuff on them is not really in accord with our ethos of collaboration. I've opened a thread and I've notified the other contributor of it. What you do is up to you. - Sitush (talk) 14:42, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Very sorry Sitush had no idea of dumping stuff on others. Just that i find the user's past edits following a certain pattern. Anyways, thanks for notifying him. Regards.--&#61; No &#124;&#124;&#124; Illusion &#61; (talk) 15:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)Mayasutra

Bene Israel
Hello, Sitush. RE: David Cheulkar's being a Bene Israel -

I am ethnically Marathi-speaking (Maharashtrian, denizen of Maharastra state in India): while I was born a Hindu, I knew numerous Bene-Israel families while growing up in Mumbai - though I'm currently in the USA. (My cousin is married to a Bene-Israel named Sholom Shahpurkar.) The Bene Israel community of Indian Jews supposedly emigrated to coastal Maharashtra two millenia or more ago, and adopted Marathi as their mother-tongue ,Marathi surnames and Indian dress (though they still used Hebrew first names and retained their religious customs).

Cheulkar is a Maharashtrian surname. When used in surnames, the Marathi suffix "-kar", means "-from the place", equivalent to "-sky/-ski" in Eastern Europe/Russia. (Hence "Mumbaikar", "hailing from Mumbai". The last names of the Maharashtrian-Indian cricketers Sunil Gavaskar and Sachin Tendulkar have similar origins.) Cheul, also spelled "Chaul" (phonetically, "Chowl", with the "ch" being pronounced like "ts") is a town that is the remnant of a 16th century city founded by the Portuguese that lies 40 miles south of Bombay/Mumbai (the capital of Maharashtra) on India's west coast.

We don't dispute that David was Jewish: insisting on a citation that he was Bene-Israeli, given the evidence of his last name (apart from the fact that he spoke Marathi flawlessly and without a non-native accent, though that might also be attributed to his long years of residence in Mumbai), is like insisting on a citation for proof that Abraham Lincoln had English ancestors, given the existence of Lincolnshire county and Lincoln, England. Prakash Nadkarni (talk) July 26,2012. —Preceding undated comment added 15:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Please read User:Sitush/Common and WP:V - the same principle applies here. I know at least three people called Cohen, by the way, who are not Jewish even though many would consider it a Jewish name. - Sitush (talk) 16:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

RS?
Is this website Oneindia.in considered as RS? It doesn't feel so. Also the subject article is from some UNI source. What news agency is that? §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 14:54, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've had some doubts about it and I have on occasion found it to be mirroring stuff from here. Alas, I never kept notes of those instances. UNI = United News of India. - Sitush (talk) 14:59, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Bhagavad Gita (Peer Review)
I have listed the Bhagavad Gita article for peer review here. Your suggestions would be extremely helpful. So take a look at it when you find the time. Thanks. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 17:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

List of Gurjars
Whoa! You flooded my watchlist. Thanks for contributing to this unnoticed list and cleaning it up periodically. Btw don't you think an edit notice will be helpful to stop non-notable additions? -- S M S  Talk 19:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not in my experience. I ended up creating User:Sitush/Common and referring people to it ... but even this has had little effect. - Sitush (talk) 19:25, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Autobiography of a Yogi
Hello Sitush - we just had major vandalism occur on this page and I undid the whole edit - you had cleaned it up and he completely changed the whole page - I thought it was best to let you know right away. Thanks RedRose13 Red Rose 13 (talk) 04:06, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that you both need to discuss the matter at Talk:Autobiography of a Yogi. Although the changes were considerable, I would also advise you to be very careful in using the word "vandalism": it has a specific meaning here and you can quickly get into trouble if you mis-use it. Take a look at our page on the subject. I'll try to keep an eye on things but will most likely be away again this weekend. - Sitush (talk) 13:56, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, just thought you should know that as soon as you left, TatSat reverted back 3 years according to Nested Variables post - NV reverted it.Red Rose 13 (talk) 04:10, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Sitush - FYI Tat Sat crested an incident on Administrator Notice Board []. Please take a look NestedVariable (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Good Morning Sitush - Hope you had an enjoyable weekend felling the trees. Please join us on the Dispute page - Your neutral editing and view are invaluable. Also, please see this conversation on Mr. Stradivarius page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mr._Stradivarius - Did you see that I posted that someone deleted the photograph of Yogananda that Megog had found for me? I didn't know that I had to watch the media commons area as well and someone put a notice there on 7/8 and deleted it on 7/17. I just answered the source questions - didn't realize that they were not answered. Red Rose 13 (talk) 17:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Please see this discussion on Mr Stradivarius you were discussed there as well and thought you should know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mr._Stradivarius#Your_help_at_Autobiography_of_a_Yogi_dispute Red Rose 13 (talk) 21:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Done, and added a comment at DRN. - Sitush (talk) 11:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello all, I have been following the discussion about the image in the infobox and would like to make the following suggestion: The infobox image of Yogananda does not necessarily have to be the image on the cover of the original book or the SRF version. However, the Indian postal authorities released a stamp in 1977 which has the same image as the one on the cover of the SRF edition. I have not seen the original 1946 edition but have the SRF edition, which has been printed several times. My edition was reprinted in 2005 and on page 577 the image of the stamp is reproduced, with his name and years of birth and death. Could we not have an image of the stamp in the infobox and stop bickering about copyright issues, real or imaginary i.e. compromise with this alternative solution? Have a look at the stamp here:http://www.indianpost.com/viewstamp.php/Color/Orange/PARAMAHANSA%20YOGANAND --Zananiri (talk) 21:45, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Sudhan
You made a lot of changes to this page, citing COI, I am not sure what you object to can you be specific

Thanks

Trueblood (talk) 20:07, 21 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I've just scanned the article history as far back as February. Maybe my concentration wandered but, although I can see a lot of edits by me, I can see nothing relating to COI concerns. Can you give me a diff please. - Sitush (talk) 16:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I had placed the references for the Sudhan history, about two years back, I dont know who has been editing, but I have visited this site for some time and see it completely messed up. Before making changes you are kindly asked to place your objections for each issue on the talk page for discussion prior to deleting references.

Trueblood (talk) 20:21, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution IRC office hours.
Hello there. As you expressed interest in hearing updates to my research in the dispute resolution survey that was done a few months ago, I just wanted to let you know that I am hosting an IRC office hours session this coming Saturday, 28th July at 19:00 UTC (approximately 12 hours from now). This will be located in the IRC channel - if you have not participated in an IRC discussion before you can connect to IRC here.

Regards, User:Szhang (WMF) (talk) 07:06, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

 * Hello Sitush, I have added my thoughts about the image in the infobox on the 'Autobiography of a Yogi' article page on your own page above with the same heading. I was going to copy this on the mediation page itself but perhaps you could consider this as a compromise solution, if you think it is viable. I notice the link I inserted does not seem to work. Perhaps you know what has gone wrong there! --Zananiri (talk) 22:15, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Modern postage stamps are most likely copyrighted images. There is no need for compromise here: the dispute is bloody ridiculous and seems to be driven by ideologies/conflicts of interest, myself and Mr Stradivarius aside. The reasons why it has ended up as a mediation proposal are beyond me, nor am I looking right now as I have more important things to catch up on. - Sitush (talk) 20:43, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Nair Article Edit
hi Sitush, I HAVE CHECKED THEIR WIKIPEDIA PROFILES AND THEIR PERSONAL WEBSITES ,MOREOVER IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE ,PLEASE CHECK THE WEBSITE www.nairs.in..thank you  05:28, 30 July 2012 (UTC)anandjayakrishnank

Paravar Page
Dear Sitush,

This is Raj,I am new user from India.I wish to speak regarding the edit works of you in the paravar page. The "Velir" term has been removed despite providing the apt source.The article says "Ilanji Vel,Son of Mapparavan",here "Vel" means Velir,Velir is a Cheiftain position and Vel is the possessor of the position.I think you are not a tamil native,hence I would like to help you in this.

Actually,lot of tamil works speak about the history of paravars in a good manner.Unfortunately,those who were proficient in tamil language are not good at history,and those who know both lack in english skill and those who are good at the three are not into the work of constructive editing.I am really worried about the caste warring at wiki.To be frank and true,I wish to help you in the constructive editing of caste pages.Being a south Indian,a tamil native,interested in history and a better language,i hope...I would like to join you in the constructive editing of few caste pages like paravar,mukkulathor,nadar,vanniyar,pallar etc,as i know the history from tamil literature and works.May be they cant be a source to be supported with english wiki,but i can support you with few correct translations of certain tamil works.

Await your reply in talk page.

Raj. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.88.0 (talk) 15:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Replied to identical msg at Talk:Paravar. - Sitush (talk) 05:18, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Query
Thanx for guidance sir,But how would i know from which website i use material for wikipedia and i will provided with licence to use them.Zeeyanketu (talk) 05:13, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Your source was acceptable but the way that you included the info was not. You need to write content using your own words, not by copying the words used in a newspaper. Some of the blue links in the notice that I placed on your talk page explain this. I would fix this particular problem myself but do not have much time today, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 05:17, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You can see User:SpacemanSpiff/CopyingFAQ for info on how to incorporate text from a source. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  05:20, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok sir,its difficult for me to understand the guidelines by reading because of my lack of good english and time, then if any video link about editing would be anywhere ,plz send me the link whenever you are free or can i remove my warnings myself from my talkpage ,Thanx.Zeeyanketu (talk) 05:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Afghanistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan#Afghan_nation-state

hey its me again Sitush. Just saw the Afghanistan page..seems blatant POV pushing by the banned user ABDEVILLIERS0007 managed to avoid being reverted yet! Any suggestions? The tone and content of his edits seem out of place in an otherwise encyclopediac entry. Cliniic (talk) 17:38, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I am keeping well away from that one, sorry. My experience of Afghan geography-related articles is zero and the arbitrators, in their wisdom (?), have recently imposed some nasty sanctions regarding the subject matter. Hopefully, someone else will pick up the slack. - Sitush (talk) 05:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

oh it was nothing related to geography. just plain pov pushing regarding the contents of the history section "Hotaki dynasty and the Durrani Empire".Cliniic (talk) 10:08, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

btw I think this guy "ARIHANT SUB" is a sock puppet for ABDEVILLIERS0007. He is currently involved in the 2002 Gujarat violence page! can you please look in it? Cliniic (talk) 10:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

August 2012
Hello, I'm Sitush. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Varghese Payapilly Palakkappilly, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks, Sitush (talk) 08:42, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello, I have given the source. It was due to some confusion regarding the sources. It is resolved now. Thanks PalakkappillyAchayan 10:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Improvement of article proposed for deletion
Hi. GM Benoy K Behl article was proposed for deletion (reason Advertisement, Self-promotion, Spam, Non Notable) ; I found that Benoy K Behl is a photographer who has taken more than 35000 photo and made several documentaries on Indian history, art, sculpture and written two or more books, and I tried to improve the article with citations (mainly from online newspaper editions). Can you have a look at it (particularly as it is article about a living person) and the tag proposed for deletion - can it be removed? thank you.Rayabhari (talk) 10:49, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Urgently need your help.
Hi, hope this finds you well. I would like to turn your attention to, and seek your help in serving what I believe would be justice in the Kerala article.

User:Ashley_thomas80 had tried to change the section name titled "Kerala in religious traditions" to "Kerala and Hindu Mythology" or something to that effect a couple of times in the past but was reverted by Admins. He has now caught hold of user User:Drmies who is working hand-in-glove with him whilst completely ignorant of the topic under debate. I would like to keep to myself as to what feelings motivate User:Drmies to do so.

Now coming to the point, for several months, the order in the aforementioned section was "chronological". I am not against the section being renamed as it has been. ButI thought the chronology issue was thrashed out months back between myself and a few other users - South Indian, non-South Indian Indian, American etc. We arrived, I thought then, at a consensus that the order could be chronological. The mention of the Malaya Mountains in the Matsya Purana was put first; the Mahabali legend second; and the Parasurama story third. That is the order that they occur in according all traditions in Hinduism.

Ashley (for reasons I believe know) wants to see the Parasurama legend mentioned first. Please kindly visit the revision history of the article and also read what I had written up on this in the Talk page for the same at - [].

I would still re-list what I believe are wrong with the section :-

1) As I mentioned already, the order should be chronological.

2) There are vague/weasel wordings like The oldest of the surviving Puranas, the Matsya Purana, has a mention of Malaya Mountains of Kerala while it sets the story of Matsya

3) There is a rather illogical statement (more a geoscientific one) made by a conventional historian like Sreedhara Menon, that parts of Kerala were actually under the sea according to scholars, when any such thing is far from the truth according to modern science. In ANY event why should such a statement be included in a section devoted purely to mythology/legends/traditions?

Ashley has made a blasphemous comment that the Parasurama legend is more linked with Kerala than the Mahabali one. But to any non-Mallu/non-Keralite, can Kerala be without Onam, Onam without Mahabali, or Kerala without Mahabali. OTOH, I can vouch for that 90% of non-Mallus and non-Keralites would be totally ignorant of the Parasurama story. And then Drmies speaks of "consensus" when the only two people who have commented and are against me in this are AT and himself the latter being completely ignorant of the substance.

I hope I make sense to you and that you find my reasoning right. In any event I think the Mahabali story would be put before the Parasurama one at least. Please step in and help me here. SumerianPrince (talk) 18:20, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Cite book template

 * Thank you; I will use the conversion template in my next edits. Cite book / cite web templates were not appearing for last two-three days(whether is it global or only for my PC, I am not sure); Totady it is appearing, and without the template, it takes lot of time to put the sourses in appropriate format! Your guidance were of immense help. I also picked up citing style from one of your "good articale". The review by you for Benoy K. Behl was very supportive for me to continue such edits!thank you.Rayabhari (talk) 05:26, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Gavali, Udupi - Prehistoric rock art
I have created the above article and improving. The citation available is very scarce, although the topic looks important, considering the geographical area where this prehistoric rock art found. Please have a glance and react. Thankyou. I will also try to get a photograph of the rock art, which I will take myself shortly.Rayabhari (talk) 16:46, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

SPI Surprise!
BrahmanAdvaita and ten other accounts were found to be sockpuppets of Thigle. is a longtime offender who has time and again evaded bans and used sockpuppetry to push his POV on articles related to Hinduism and Buddhism. Talk:Advaita_Vedanta is full of discussions initiated by his/her sockpuppets. I find it ironic and maybe a bit projective that BA was accusing you of being partisan and me and Tito of sockpuppetry. Anyway, now that they are gone, we can sneak into the article whatever we want. ;) Cheers. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 12:12, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Any opinions on the "Dopesheet"
Have been able to take a look at [dopesheet] here, & what did you think of it. I did leave another link on the [KP talk page], which gives some examples of what dopesheets @ NDTV are. -Ambar (talk) 11:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been on and off wiki for a few days and am trying to catch up. I've got the feeling that I could be a bit erratic for a while longer. - Sitush (talk) 11:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about this one but still cannot make up my mind. In some ways, they look like fantastic potted biographies etc but I am so, so dubious of perhaps overusing content from an Indian media source that frequently gets things wrong and writes ambiguous text. I think that it needs input from WP:RSN - my gut feeling is that you would get support there even though I am wary. - Sitush (talk) 16:35, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you help me initiate the WP:RSN process & notify me on my talk page (otherwise suggest how to initiate it). Thanks. -Ambar (talk) 06:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

‎Bksatyanarayana
continues to add OR to articles, any suggestions? Thanks Dougweller (talk) 14:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Caste system in India article lead / other sections
Sitush - I was planning to work on the lead and the article this week, per our discussion in July, but it may be mid August or later when I get to it. Primarily because I need a few more days to finish reading some more literature. Secondarily because, unexpectedly, there is a significant dispute and discussion in progress on the article caste; how it gets resolved should, I believe, affect the style and format of the Caste system in India article. The discussion revolves, in essence, about the merits of having and maintaining two separate articles/versions of an article on caste and caste system in India. Most other encyclopedias have one brief article on caste, with significant portion of that article covering caste system in India. Wikipedia has a collection of caste articles, each independent article of that collection going into considerable detail. Is this appropriate? Please review and share your comments, if any, here. If there is an archive of discussion on 'why create a collection of many caste articles and what goes in which article?,' please guide me - I would like to read the past discussions. ApostleVonColorado (talk) 01:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

MirrorLink article, ready for review
Mind taking a look at MirrorLink, an article that I created. A highly notable article for a future standard (technology) in a trans-industry effort to improve connectivity while being safe. Some edits would be apprecited. How can we take this article to a high quality article (A ranking etc) -Ambar (talk) 07:00, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Opinion
Your thoughts are needed at: 1, 2 and 3. &mdash; Vensatry (Ping me)  10:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Review request
Hi. I hope I am not bothering you by repeated requests. I have created Kanakatte, which kindly review and give feedback, when you are free. Thank you.Rayabhari (talk) 13:28, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Change
For a change from fighting over political and religious and social issues why not fight over something else? Take out some time from all these and give your comments at Featured list candidates/59th National Film Awards/archive1. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 18:08, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am struggling to keep on top of my watchlist at the moment, sorry. There are some real life things going on that are consuming huge chunks of my time. - Sitush (talk) 19:46, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No rush! The review will be open for ages. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 21:00, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Kaul draft in my Sandbox
I saw your comments on the quote from Ram Krishen Kaul in the Kaul article. The link is to an english source (wonder why you said its a non english source), but to further clarify the link I have added some comments and provided a copy of his quote on the article talk page. Could you take a look there and provide your comments Kaul Sandbox of Ambar  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ambar wiki (talk •contribs) 06:54, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Have added some introductory material to the main article, all referenced and non-contentious material. For the remaining content in my sandbox, I still wait a review and a discussion in order to reach a consensus on what may be included in the final version of the Kaul article. Also, have planned to include a section in Kaul article related to Kauls in antiquity, specially for their role in preserving and handing over the Rajatrangini to Aurel Stein and actually doing the translation work for him. Look forward to your comments since you have some background on stein yourself. -Ambar (talk) 18:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Hubbashika
Hi. I have created a small article on Hubbashika, the Koraga chieftan. I picked up his name from Koraga article created by you. Can you please have a glance at Hubbashika and give your opinion.Rayabhari (talk) 16:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Pages Edited comparison tool
Hello there. A while back you posted on another user's talk page requesting a tool to compare the lists of pages that contributors had edited. You got a pointer to a very handy tool indeed. However, I can't find your request now, having looked on the talk pages of many of your regular correspondents. Can you direct me to the page/tool? Thanks. JanetteDoe (talk) 17:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ouch! Yes, your memory is correct but mine is faulty. I'll have to dig around myself. I intended to create a link to act as a permanent reminder but, alas, my life has got a bit chaotic recently. Hopefully, I can find it again. I rather think that may have mentioned something to me but my head is all over the place at the moment. I'll let you know ... and feel free to nudge me if I do not. - Sitush (talk) 23:42, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Found it:  JanetteDoe (talk) 23:55, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

List of Aroras
I'd be grateful for your input at this discussion. Thank you, -- Black Falcon (talk) 23:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Message
05:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

BSS
I honestly don't think BSS can be helped to make those sorts of edits. There are prohibitive issues of judgement and language will probably never be overcome. What sort of contributions do you think are within his scope? This editor made 2,000 labour-intensive contribs in 2 months. Pity to waste that sort of energy. Let's try to work something out. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:11, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Moved to my talk. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello and request for advice
Hi Sitush,

I hope everything is going well for you. I'm back writing here again - and so appreciated all your help before my unexpected break. I'm sorry that it was so sudden.

It seems to me that you've addressed the issue of original research before - and I've had the issue come up with a number of articles that I've been editing. One example is Frederick Brook Hitch, reference #1. It seems to me that you've given great direction on this, but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was. How would you handle a situation like this?

Take good care!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:57, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Carole, I hope that what ever caused the interruption is now resolved. The reference that you mention is not going to meet WP:RS. The very first part of that policy says "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published sources," (my emphasis). A word-of-mouth report of or by a local historian simply isn't good enough. Has the info been published in, say, a local newspaper?- Sitush (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, Ok, good - I'll check that out.


 * What do you think about the scenario where there's:
 * A published list of items that an artists worked on (Nathaniel Hitch)
 * Documentation in the Leeds Museums & Galleries. Henry Moore Institute Archive - that provides detail by the artist of the work that was done. (Nathaniel Hitch)?


 * It's great to hear back from you. I hope things are going well for you. Yep, I think I've got a calmer disposition about the work I do here at Wikipedia - and it was good for me to take a break for awhile.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I am a bit confused, Carole. What are you either attempting to verify or doubting? Are you concerned about reliability, original research or synthesis? - Sitush (talk) 20:36, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm concerned about reliability: Are article's subject papers archived on a reputable site which provide more information to a reputable source considered "reliable"?


 * I guess it could be an original research issue, but I hadn't thought about that.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Still confused here! What is the "reputable website"? I'd guess University of Glasgow History of Art and HATII, online database 2011, as mentioned on Nathaniel Hitch. - Sitush (talk) 20:51, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The website is: Leeds Museums & Galleries. Henry Moore Institute Archive. I should have provided the links: http://www.henry-moore.org/hmi/archive.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:07, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing that you're pretty busy and this got too confusing. No worries, we've worked out most of the issues extremely smoothly. Thanks for trying to sort out what I was getting at!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:11, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, rather busy. I apologise for not responding earlier. - Sitush (talk) 23:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Kudos on Yadav!
Hadn't looked at the article for a bit, and just had to say it's simply staggering how improved the article is from its old casteist-infiltrated version. Thank goodness for General Sanctions to reduce at least some of the burden of protecting it, and I'd imagine that some of the Facebook and Orkut traffic feeding into caused some shrieks of agony. I'd guess further that there are a lot of pre-Intervention versions mirrored on caste fansites in order to avoid having to face the current article (which certainly shouldn't be labelled as "Stub" or "Start" class). Thanks again for the good work you do tackling the sticky subjects with rigid methodology. MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:02, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Not just me. There has been a cast (sic) of thousands. Well, half-a-dozen or thereabouts. The usual non-cabal of which you are familiar - etc - plus some good stuff from . I need to review the thing at some point: there are issues with phrasing and some outstanding verification problems. I also worry that articles such as this become too technical/"can't see the wood for the trees" - hyperlinks are great but there needs to be some element of self-containment otherwise the poor reader will end up with RSI. I see that you are dipping your toe in the waters again and perhaps your break from the topic area might assist in refining the thing. No pressure! - Sitush (talk) 23:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC).

My recent two edits on Kashmiri Pandit personalities
Try and take a look at my recent two edits on Kashmiri pandit personalities P.K. Kaul and Hari Kunzru when you get time. You sound a little occupied right now, so try and see if you can provide inputs in the Kaul draft first, and then perhaps visit the above two links in your own time. -Ambar (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right that things are not great right now. I am hoping to resolve the real life issues within the next week or so but, obviously, it is not fair to keep you or anyone else waiting for an undue amount of time. I really would be grateful if you could hold off but you'll have to WP:AGF and I do understand that this situation is frustrating for you. - Sitush (talk) 23:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Can wait a while and there is no real rush here. Also take a look at Braj Kachru where I added some content and infobox. Am planning to propose this for the WP:GA status soon. There should be a free picture of Kachru somewhere, so help me find it if you have the time (after you are back) .... & dont forget your Karma to help you out in your real life issues. See you back soon.-Ambar (talk) 19:37, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ambar. I've had a quick blast through my watchlist tonight but haven't got to grips with any new developments. I am hoping that I'll have more time next week. I appreciate your continued willingness to collaborate for the greater good. We had a perhaps slightly rocky start but it is clear to me that you have the "right" attitude. You have much to offer this project and it is great to see. - Sitush (talk) 23:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, am sure can work together on a few articles & continue to collaborate. I guess my limited knowledge of the policies on wiki were responsible for the start that we had. That doesn't mean I'm an easy person to work with, not at all :-). To be honest, without your inputs I wouldn't have gotten this far. ... btw, I am still struggling with how to search for free images on the net. Any leads would be much appreciated. -Ambar (talk) 08:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not much good at image stuff, sorry. Fortunately, my interest in history means that when I do want an image then the thing is usually clearly out of copyright etc and generally I stumble across it in a old book or while researching other things. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Devanga
Hi Sitush, what kind of reliable sources do you expect if a quote from Bhagavad Gita will not stand as reference? Could you just put a note on the kind of sources that will be accepted in general! Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpkatwiki (talk • contribs) 11:46, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Please take a look at WP:RS and WP:PRIMARY. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 16:08, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I did refered to the section you mentioned, and in the article what is the problem with referring to Bhagavad Gita? Could you please clarify that? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpkatwiki (talk • contribs) 18:25, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It is a primary source, and an old one at that. We much prefer secondary sources & certainly in this instance. - Sitush (talk) 21:48, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Of course, I agree to the claim about the use of secondary sources. Whatever I have put in the article are secondary sources, which elaborates and analyzes something relying on a primary source as Bhagavad Gita, and the commentaries about that which I have cited properly are of course the secondary sources. Could you please make it more clear to me this fact so that I can improve upon it. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpkatwiki (talk • contribs) 00:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You are referring to this revert by me. Huge chunks were completely unsourced, the phrasing was terrible (almost gibberish, sorry) and the information that was sourced still seems poor to me. I suggest that you open a discussion on the talk page and see if you can obtain consensus regarding your contributions to the article. - Sitush (talk) 16:53, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, I think you are mistaken with the last article. I have only added the reference to Bhagavad Gita, and the commentaries written by the saints which were properly referenced. You can look at my latest edit of the article. If that appears gibberish to you, then I can't help it anymore. Then I must say, the entire Bhagavd Gita commentaries written by them are gibberish as per your evaluation. If you can help me point out the problem referring to the latest edit of mine, then I can improve upon it. Kindly point it out. Thanks. --Rpkatwiki (talk) 18:07, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Why are you adding verses from the Gita? It is completely out of scope. Correct Knowledge  «৳alk»  18:12, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I added the verses because it could point as a quick reference, and its explanation. The main idea was to convey the fact that the name of the saint Devala is mentioned in that particular verse. How do I convey this fact to the public? --Rpkatwiki (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * That fact can be conveyed in just one sentence. If readers want to verify what you've written, they'll check the references. Quoting verses from the Bhagavad Gita with their translation is completely out of scope of an article related to caste. Correct Knowledge  «৳alk»  19:13, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much Sitush for pointing out the irrelevance of adding such quotes in this article. --Rpkatwiki (talk) 19:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Abhay Sopori, in time
I've been considering to propose the Abhay Sopori article for WP:GA status. Have created the article and added some contents. The picture is still missing and the article could use a few improvements. However, would like to nominate this for GA. How do I start ? Also, do leave your comments on its talk page and let me know what you think should be the quality rating of the article in its current form. This would give me an idea of how much we need to work on it in order to improve it further. -Ambar (talk) 11:25, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but this article is far too new and too sketchy to qualify as a GA, in my opinion. has provided you with the necessary link to guidance on your own talk page. - Sitush (talk) 16:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

BSS
Thanks for the eyes. Take a look at the review at his page. I just want him to remove the content, not copyedit it. Perhaps I wasn't clear. My guess is that he will not accept going through is edits and removing content. He will either give up after a short time, or go astray somehow. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Seen it, and it is not looking good. I'll be away over the weekend but on my return I'll try to sample any edits made between now and then. Hopefully, we will see some improvement but, like you, I fear that this will end up badly in one way or another. - Sitush (talk) 16:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi
Saw you revert edit on the Kamma (caste) page. First there is no such thing as Upper Shudra. In Hinduism there were 4 varna systems i.e. Brahmins, Shudras, Vaishyas and Kshatriyas. They were followed in North India. In South India such things were not strictly followed as Hinduism came much later replacing Budhism and Jainism post circa 900AD. Only Brahmin and Vaishyas was prevalaint in South India, and the Shudra and Kshatriyas system were sort of combined activity, i.e. peseant warriors. Doing farming, and also military duties during wars. Now the "Upper Shudras" are some badly placed classification done by some ignorant authors. You can type Upper Shudras in Google and get 650,000 results. If you type "Obama was born in India" you get 73,200,000 results in Google.i.e ten times more results. If you disagree with me and want to showcase that misquote, go ahead. It only makes Wikipedia half baked.

Now I will get rid of those rather impolite warning & threats you have posted on my talk page. People like you make wikipedia a dumb place --Ask27 (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Please calm down. I am afraid that you are clearly unaware of my experience in this sphere of wikipedia. I am well aware of the varna system/categories etc. However, we operate on the basis of verifiability by use of reliable sources. I explained to you that you could challenge the veracity of the cited sources on the article talk page and pointed out that continuing to remove sourced content on caste articles without discussion is highly problematic given the sanctions. Although the template is a warning, my use of it was not and I made it abundantly clear that the purpose in showing you the thing was so that you could see the nature of the sanctions etc, and even read the discussion giving cause to them if you so chose. I really do suggest that you calm down. - Sitush (talk) 19:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, this wasn't great either. It has been reverted by . - Sitush (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Lets go by those reference links at that page. .

(1) Link A: The Upper Shudra term is mentioned by the author to cite some other authors interesting classification, which does not mean that such classification is exact.

(2) Link B: In this google books pahe there is no clear indication of Kamma as Upper Shudra, in fact there is no known mention of Kamma or Upper Shudra at all. And that page deals with caste classification in Hindi belt.

Both the authours are not experts in these feilds and the book is relatively a recent print (~2002). And finally if at all there was a classification called Upper Shudra, why there is no Wikipedia article on that. Even in the page Shudra there is no mention of Upper Shudra. Please Google “Upper Shudra” and see what one gets. Those results do not point to any valid sources. Since you claim that you aware of such caste/Varna systems, I am not sure to what extent you are aware, but I leave this whole issue to you to make a better judgement.

--Ask27 (talk) 05:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Gsksari
User:Gsksari.Many salams to all! I am a comparatively new editor on Wikipedia and hope to learn from all of you and to gradually improve and make more valuable contributions in due course. I originally belong to the Mughal Gheba tribe, from the Fateh jang area in Attock district of Rawalpindi division, Pakistan, although I have largely lived in Taxila and wah , since my father was in government service and served largely in these stations. I had my initial education from Govt High School and the FG Degree College Taxila and then took an MA degree in History from the Punjab University there in 2012. Between 2007- tilI now worked for several educational institutions in the Punjab and later I proceeded on a research Project where I wasable to consult extensively at the Library,and eventually will take admission Mphil degree in South Asian Studies at the Quaid azam University of Islamabad. My chief areas of interest includeSouth Asian studies in general, Pakistan studies especially the country's colonial and later socio-political history and literature and the history and culture of the Rawalpindi division and the Northern Punjab. This user is a citizen of Pakistan. This user is an active member of the Pakistan WikiProject. MA This user has a Master of Arts degree. Gsksari — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsksari (talk • contribs) 19:54, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Kogga Devanna Kamath
Hi. I have created Kogga Devanna Kamath, biography of non-living person, with sources. Can you please have a glance and give feedback/suggest modifications? Thanks.Rayabhari (talk) 08:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Mullanchery M Velaian
Hello Sitush. I took a look at Mullanchery M Velaian today because it's tagged for copy editing, and I came to doubt that the subject is really notable. I see you discussed it with the article creator about a year ago (at User talk:Bose0123), and he dropped off Wikipedia in the middle of that discussion. Did he ever manage to provide the things you asked for, or otherwise convince you that the subject is notable? Google searches for his writings aren't productive, and I'm contemplating an AfD, but would like to avoid troubling people if it's already been thought about. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 15:10, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What you see on Bose's talk page is what I got. It is a rather awkward case, in particular because reckoned that there was stuff available in non-English sources. I have enormous respect for Sodabottle but they, too, have backed off from here of late, much to my regret. It might be worth querying possible Tamil sources at WT:INB before taking it to AfD. At the end of the day, the article can always be recreated if sources do turn up but I am aware that people such as  would likely take the attitude that a respected contributor has indicated that notability exists and that this is an issue of systemic bias etc. - Sitush (talk) 23:55, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much. Well, one can put the sources into google translate and get a bit of a clue. The dinami.com citations are useless as they just lead to today's edition but FNs 3 and 4 did lead to accounts of one-day seminars for Kumari Arivial Peravai. I prodded that yesterday for lack of sources, but have deprodded it now. I'm not sure if these sources are good enough to establish notability, but judging that from machine translations is too difficult, so I guess I'll leave it alone. Thanks for your help. I skimmed DGG's userpage just now -- interesting! Regards, --Stfg (talk) 14:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Naranappa uppoor
Hi. Thank you for making Kogga Devanna Kamath look better. Was the style of developing the article OK?
 * I have created one more biography of non-living person Naranappa uppoor, which kindly have a glance. The problem is, the subject passed away during 1980's and finding inline citations in English during that period, for Narnappa Uppoor is a little difficult for me. One more thing; I want to change the heading from "Naranappa uppoor" to "Naranappa Uppoor" (capital for U). Thank you.Rayabhari (talk) 13:32, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll review both later today. For now, I have moved the Uppoor page to give it the correct capitalisation. I'll have to figure out the easiest way to explain that one to you because my page layout is probably different from yours! - Sitush (talk) 14:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Right on time
Old friends are back from vacation. JanetteDoe (talk) 18:18, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Redtigerxyz Talk 06:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Caste identification by progeny
Is it considered sufficient if the people identify the caste of their parents or any relatives who are still alive? Secret of success (talk) 14:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No. Although it is common to read the argument (usually given by relatively new contributors) that X is/was a member of Y caste and therefore their relative must also be a member, consensus is that it is unacceptable. You may find something of relevance at User:Sitush/Common since that gives pointers to various past discussions ... but they are pretty long-winded things. - Sitush (talk) 14:10, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if in case of a situation where a person explicitly states that his father belonged to x caste, like the Amitabh Bachchan report in the TOI link, where he states that his father was a Khayanak and his mother a Sikh. Wouldn't that be good enough? I'm able to find a considerable number of articles following this at the moment. Secret of success (talk) 14:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because his father was of X caste etc does not mean that Bachchan considers himself to be similarly of that caste. I am pretty sure that you were involved in one of the recent discussions at WT:INB regarding this but as an analogy, I might say that my father was a Methodist but that does not mean I subscribe to the same religion. In fact, I most definitely do not! Please note that religion and caste are treated in the same way in BLPs. - Sitush (talk) 14:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

In your message above you quote "Please note that religion and caste are treated in the same way in BLPs." Can you point out the relevant section of the BLP policy that explicitiy state that caste and religion are to be treated in the same way ? In my opinion, one is free to choose ones religion but caste is similar to race. Out of interest, on UK census, is one allowed to deliberately say you are black when you are 100% of native English stock ? Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 15:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not getting involved any further with this here. It has been discussed time and again, the pair of you have been involved in some of those discussions and the matter is resolved. Repeating your contentions time and again is not going to achieve anything. Numerous people with considerable experience have explained the situation to you and I have provided a short piece that contains links to some of the discussions. - Sitush (talk) 16:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, no I was not involved in any of the discussions but thanks anyway. :) Secret of success (talk) 11:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoops! Sorry. I thought that you had been. There are a few users with "Secret" in their name etc and I generally remember names pretty well. But clearly I have fouled up on this occasion. Again, my apologies. - Sitush (talk) 23:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Ashok Gudigar
Hi. Thank you so much for support/copy editing. I have created new article, Ashok Gudigar, a living person biography, which kindly have a glance and give suggestions.Rayabhari (talk) 06:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Tulian Lake for your quickview
Hi, have created a new article via AfC - Tulian lake. Have a quick look if you have time and leave your comments on the talk page on how you feel it may be further improved. Can this be proposed for GA status. -Ambar (talk) 19:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Ambar, there is virtually no chance of any new article being a suitable GA candidate. One of the requirements of GA is that an article should be stable (no significant disputes etc) and this is impossible to determine when something has only recently been created. Give it six months or so before nominating. - Sitush (talk) 05:44, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, understand. Since you are a history person, do visit the recent additions that I made on Wat Umong, Chiang Mai, Thailand. I was just wanting to understand what is the process for nominating an article. Do I need to post it somewhere ? -Ambar (talk) 02:06, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Kanda
Thanks, did that in a rush just to get a quick cleanup. Dougweller (talk) 15:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No probs. I'll probably tinker with it a little more. You did a good clean up. - Sitush (talk) 16:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

really ?! you owe an explanation for your words to the Wikipedian family ?!
As per the text and reasoning @ Identifying reliable sources, I see no reason why any of the following references doesn't fit in your criteria Mr. Sitush:


 * Tadeusz Sulimirski, The Sarmatians, Praeger Publisher, New York, 1970, pp. 113-114.


 * Toynbee, Arnold Joseph (1939). A Study of History. Volume 2. London: Oxford University Press. p. 435.


 * Toynbee, Arnold Joseph (1962). A Study of History (2 ed.). Volume 10. Oxford University Press. p. 54.

Don't they met WP:BIO & WP:PROF ?!

If Yes (of-course they do!), then could you please let me know that why you are violating WP:NPOV & WP:OWN ?!

Also, what are your view about Cambridge University Press, Longmans, Green, and co., Nottingham Society, Praeger Publisher, Oxford University Press ?!

— 117.207.57.194 (talk) 13:42, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Just in case required, I'm pointing out your view @ HERE ! — 117.207.57.194 (talk) 13:56, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know who Sulimirski, but on Toynbee...you're joking right? I don't know very much about historical research, but even I know that Toynbee is very widely considered to be a bad historian. Or, perhaps, you could kindly call him a "pop" historian--someone who once had public cache, but no serious following in scholarly fields. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:51, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sitush, I' waiting! — 117.207.60.13 (talk) 09:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Is my answer not clear enough for you? Toynbee is not a reliable source for, well, anything other than his own theories. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:23, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I have been away from Wikipedia for a few days. I agree with Qwyrxian, whose opinion is similar to that which I think that I have told you previously. In any event, this discussion should take place on the article talk page (as it has been doing) rather than here. - Sitush (talk) 19:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Madurai
Hi Sitush, being one of the top contributors of the article, can you plese help in copy editing. The GA review is in here. Ssriram mt (talk) 16:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll try to take a look but my involvement with the article was mostly related to minimising disruptive contributions: my knowledge of the place is far less than that of many others who also have substantial experience of the ins and outs of Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 19:54, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Mewar
Hey, Sorry again to bother you, i thought it'd be nice to provide more links in 'see also', as it provides further info about the branches of Mewar, and the Maratha-Rajput relation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcoda89 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Virtually everything that you are adding is being reverted by me or by others and this must be pretty demoralising for you. I am unsure which of your edits you refer to here but every addition that I have seen you make in See Also sections appeared to be either in breach of WP:OVERLINK, too tangential or something similar. I really would urge you to slow down here: Indian caste, community and history articles are often troublesome things to deal with and my best advice for a newcomer to the subject area is to open discussions on which ever article talk page(s) is appropriate rather than wading in there making changes to the article itself. You'll learn a lot from the discussions, and if you stick to one issue at a time then you'll most likely find it less frustrating than at present. - Sitush (talk) 21:14, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Jayalalithaa
I agree if you want to remove shameful from the edits, but definitely you should keep sexual harassment in context. Call a spade a spade. Being NPOV doesn't mean self-censorship. Please restore comments as requested. --A 22:36, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You are responding to a note that I left on your talk page. In your edit to the article you said "Jayalalithaa battled sexual harassment in a shameful attack on her ...". The source does not appear to mention sexual harassment, nor that she battled anything, nor describe it as some sort of shameful attack. This is your POV and your edit summary actually reinforced it as being your POV ("this is one brave lady", or something similar is what you said). The source is discussing an issue of constitutional law. What we know from that source is that the saree incident was a ruckus of some sort - of which there are many in Indian politics - that resulted in a debate regarding the legal concept of ultra vires. I am disheartened that you think otherwise but if I have misread the source then please feel free to explain the error in my reading. - Sitush (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and please could you sign your comments in a more meaningful manner in future, . I believe that your signature should provide a link to your own page. The easiest way to do this is to add four tildes - ~ immediately after the last sentence of your message. - Sitush (talk) 23:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Periyar River Source
Hi Sitush. Just wanted to let you know that I've put some new material in the Periyar river talk page. Have a look - Ashinpt (talk) 19:56, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed it on my watchlist. I'll take a look but it may not be today, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 05:18, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, Sitush. - Ashinpt (talk) 07:38, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Sitush. Hope you doing fine. Looks like you are somewhat busy at the moment. I just wanted to give you a reminder regarding the new material on the Periyar river talk page. Keep well. - Ashinpt (talk) 11:22, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the horrendous delay. I've done some tidying up, The article is rather messy but hopefully we will get there in the end (even if we cannot agree on where the beginning is). Now to catch up on the umpteen other queries below ... - Sitush (talk) 16:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I have been off for a few days too. Thanks for helping on the article. I have been adding bits and pieces of information in the article myself. I do have the references for some of the clarifications and citations that are needed for the article, which I'll put in shortly. I should point out that although I have the source for the information on the river dams, I am not really happy with it as some of these dams (like the Idamalayar Dam) are not on the river itself, but on its tributaries. I also know that there is a disagreement on the source of the river, but I am refraining from changing anything on it as I want a good healthy discussion beforehand on the sources I have recently presented. It seems no one is interested right now (I wonder why :)), except for maybe Pearll's Sun. I know this might end up taking quite a bit of your time, but it would be great to have your view too, considering your experience here. I am sure all of us can slowly work our way towards some agreement. - Ashinpt (talk) 13:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Parmars
Hey there, I've cited references for the royal Maratha clan 'Puars' who are the descendents of the ancient parmars. And I've also added links for rajputs, marathas and puars in 'See also', just for some extra information to people who would be unaware unlike you and me. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcoda89 (talk • contribs) 19:46, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, your message crossed with one that I wrote on your talk page. The source is not reliable, per discussions at WP:RSN. - Sitush (talk) 19:49, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I'm new here, I'd really appreciate if you could help me cite that reference. Im close to the royal family and observed that there wasnt much information here on wiki bout them, and their relation to the Parmars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcoda89 (talk • contribs) 19:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I realised that you are new here. Wikipedia requires that almost all statements made in articles are verifiable by reference to reliable sources. Unfortunately, royalark.net is not reliable and this was determined some time ago by consensus. There is no way that I can help you to add that source to the article because it should not be used. You are going to have to find some other source, I'm afraid. - Sitush (talk) 20:08, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

alright, its not like im putting useless information, im putting accurate information, about the 'puars' as they were indeed, a Maratha clan and ruled dhar and dewas. and maharaj saheb 'Jyotiraditya' is also a relative, and i dnt think i put any useles information on that page, i linked some several words, and changed some sentences to that would look perfect, nothing else, I dont think that neededed to be undone. I'm most welcome to suggestions, bt ur practically undoing all that im working on, instead of correcting. I still request you tto guide me, bt this ain a right way. regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcoda89 (talk • contribs) 13:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Please go through this- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF Dcoda89 (talk) 14:47, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I have been trying to AGF. That is evident from my comments here and on your talk page. But WP:AGF is not a suicide pact. Your continued efforts to make certain points - eg: at the Puar disambiguation page, at Paramara and at the article concerning your relative - are showing a seeming unwillingness to work in a collaborative manner. It cannot continue in this manner, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 18:53, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Anna Frodesiak
Please feel free to post at BSS's talk with editing suggestions. I will be back Thursday to join in. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm sort of shopping around here looking for things the editor might be interested in. I'm not sure what would be suitable. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry: for some reason I've not been seeing the orange "you've got messages" bar today. The problem of what can be done next is something I raised a week or so ago. I have been watching their corrective work and, yes, I've been pleasantly surprised to see them stick to it. That is a very good sign. I, too, will have a think regarding where things go next. - Sitush (talk) 18:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Janitorial services needed
Staunch Martial Hindus want you! JanetteDoe (talk) 16:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * They want a Vacillating Peaceful Atheist? I'll take a look. - Sitush (talk) 18:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm of the general opinion that any article with "Kshatriya" in its first half-dozen words is probably full of piffle-waffles.
 * Wait, hold up, the Savji are Kshatriya... but they drink booze and eat meat? My sniffer is twitching...
 * Hmmmmm.... "from the Marathi- speaking Savji community, to which the well-known distillers, Khodays, belong" MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, so they're some kind of (or synonymous with) the Khatri. This is coming together. Non-RS, but one of the first hits for "khoday khatri" on regular Google was a marriage ad for a guy who's listed as Hindu: Khatri. Sub Caste. : KHODAY.. MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It does look as if both of you have valid concerns regarding the Savji article but you'll have to start the party without me. I am still trying to figure out where to go next with/handle, whose efforts are becoming increasingly tendentious. - Sitush (talk) 18:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Remind me again, do we have a blanket rule against relying on Anthropological Survey of India materials? Thanks.JanetteDoe (talk) 19:55, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Alas, nothing particularly clear has been formulated. There were two series: the earlier, national series was published by Oxford University Press and is generally ok but the later "states" series is complete bilge. It pretty much regurgitates British Raj sources, often with poor or even zero attribution, and is rarely cited by academics in my experience. It was, some say, a political exercise. I know for sure that joins me in deprecating the states series.  I wrote a bit about it at Kumar Suresh Singh and The People of India but have never polished either to a standard with which I would be content - they form part of a long to-do list. - Sitush (talk) 20:14, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you. I've added some cn tags, removed some broken/attack/matrimonial links, and tried to clarify the titles of several sources that are actually from the POI series.  Later in the series unfortunately as they don't seem to be under the Oxford imprint.  JanetteDoe (talk) 20:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm getting some slight inclarity as to whether Savji/Pattegar/Patkar is the same as Khatri, or whether they're slightly different. M.S. Rao appears to say they're close but not identical (but I only have snippet view of his book), but this phrase (non RS though ) is interesting: "He speaks of silk weavers of the Pattegar caste whom he calls Cuttery (the Kshatriyas)". Looking further, some old Brit sources use "Cuttery" as the old spelling of "Kshatriya", vice "Catry" for the Khatris. I feel like I'm dancing circles around the actual truth of this, but I'm still not convinced that this isn't just some basic silk-weaving caste (similar or identical to Khatri) that has jammed a bunch of mythic nonsense into its article. I'm holding back to leave JD space, but I wouldn't be surprised if nearly all the refs say something nowhere near the text, are very loose readings, or are unavailable. MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Doing some initial cleaning, but it's hard to even find attestation of the term "Savji" in RSs. By the bye, if you glance at History, like 90% of edits over the last few years have been by IPs, and in the "Typical Last Names" section. This is why I hate name lists with a passion; they should be either eliminated, or explicitly and precisely cited and placed in a template and frozen on display so they can't easily be tampered. I've proposed a merge with Khatri but I'm still not sure about it. I don't doubt there are a group of people called Savji, I just can't find much about them. Fortunately I'm sure Facebook and Orkut will preserve any vital-but-unciteable info we remove. MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you cannot find RS then propose it for deletion per WP:GNG. Simple as. - Sitush (talk) 23:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you checked the alternate names, btw? It could be a WP:COMMONNAME issue. - Sitush (talk) 23:53, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

AFD improved - Need help
Hi. I have improved Baba Hariram, an article nominated for deletion. I have tried to give citations, but not very sure whether Thank you for all the support.-Rayabhari (talk) 16:54, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * the subject is notable (please decide) and needs improvement,
 * the citations I provided are reliable,
 * how to find citations of a subject lived during 19th century?

Bhati
Don't know if you might have time to help keep an eye on Bhati, and whether you have access to the only cited source. We've got someone who seems to be bigging up the tribe without sources, and being a little rude on my Talk page - I've blocked for 24 hours in accordance with the discretionary sanctions. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:06, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, Sitush is on a wiki-break. See this. Correct Knowledge  «৳alk»  14:09, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, thanks - anyone else who feels like keeping an eye on that article would be welcome too ;-) (And I'll drop Sitush an email - after he's had a few more days off). -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:13, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added it to my watchlist. I'll try to play editor while you play admin. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:22, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Kashyap article
I've made some recent additions to the Kashyap article. Reading through the article, I find that its rather difficult to understand and has a poor flow. The WP:MOS has quite a few guidelines but would like to know if there is any forum where I may ask some editors to come help improve and probably reformat the entire article for improved reading. Pls let me know. -Ambar (talk) 15:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)
Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page. In this issue: Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->
 * Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
 * Research: The most recent DR data
 * Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
 * Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
 * DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
 * Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
 * Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 19:30, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Reply at Kaul Sandbox
Have left a reply at the Kaul sandbox article here. Awaiting your comments and reply. -Ambar (talk) 17:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sitush is on a wiki-break. He hasn't been active on wikipedia since 30th August. Correct Knowledge  «৳alk»  17:06, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Glad you are back!
Hi, Sitush. I am really relieved and happy to see you after your short break, so that I can seek your guidance / help in my edits. I have tried to improve an AFD Jayanth Reddy and request you to tell me whether my edits are ok.Thank you.
 * I have also tried to improve Devanga -Rayabhari (talk) 06:21, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, please review Hubbashika, as nobody has reviewed this article to ascertain whether this is notable, after I created it on 26 June 2012.-Rayabhari (talk) 07:49, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It is a fleeting visit, I am afraid. I'm really not terribly happy with this place at the moment and need to work out a few issues. Getting the mooted access to JSTOR would certainly give me a boost as I have a long list of possible sources/search terms/fishing expeditions that I dare not impose on others! Keep doing what you do: there is no deadline. - Sitush (talk) 09:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar!

 * Thanks, As per the previous section, it is a fleeting visit. And I think that I may have hit a sockfarm -, and  - already! If not socks then they'll be meats, for sure. - Sitush (talk) 15:08, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Fleeting is better than no.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  22:35, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but to step right into a paddle of ducks on my return is exactly the type of thing I didn't want to happen. - Sitush (talk) 10:37, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Botched SPI
Morning Sitush. Following your warning directed towards India31, the user is currently attempting to initiate an SPI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sitush. Mephistophelian (talk) 10:52, 8 September 2012 (UTC).
 * Ha! Thanks for letting me know. It is not the first time that this has happened to me but even when correctly formed, the things never go anywhere. - Sitush (talk) 11:44, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Bhonsle
I've seen the SPI. At the moment you seem to be at 3RR here, better stop. Dougweller (talk) 11:41, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks., I was aware and that is why I didn't revert any further at Maratha etc. I suspected socking yesterday (see a couple of sections above) but it is a cert now. I'd still hope that a CU is done despite the quacking - there may be others in the drawer from the last week or two. - Sitush (talk) 11:43, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Autobiography of a Yogi
Hello Sitush, I think because it is Wikipedia policy I am supposed to let you know that I mentioned your name here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Yworo Red Rose 13 (talk) 16:44, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Another person who thinks it's a good idea to restore Gyan refs
Is attempting to chastise me on my talk page. Would you stop by? I've referred the user to the earlier discussion but they seem convinced by their own arguments and are re-adding Gyan refs as fast as their little fingers can type. I've also requested help at Moonriddengirl's page. Thank you. JanetteDoe (talk) 16:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That user is me. I contend that it is impossible for a book published in 1993, 1995, or 2000 to be a mirror of Wikipedia, since Wikipedia didn't exist until 2001. --Orlady (talk) 17:53, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sitush, it's your business of course whether to reply or not, but I would really appreciate support. I felt like Clever McCleverson's OP to my talk page was excessively bitey and with a lack of agf especially after the work we have both done and after all the sources I have supplied trying to maintain RS on the poisonous caste articles, plus my trying to keep editors on track with policy.  And oh, here she is playing peekaboo.  Well, bless your heart, Orlady!  I would have expected better of an admin with 44,000+ article space edits.  Perhaps it's more fun to come down like a ton of bricks than it is to bother checking another contributor's edit history.  I can hardly pretend that this place will shrivel up and die if I flounce off in a huff, but I can certainly understand your taking a temporary or permanent break. Best.  JanetteDoe (talk) 03:05, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Am on an Android - typed long reply and lost it. Short version: problems with Gyan extend beyond being a mirror and are deep-rooted. Orlady, you are on dodgy ground here. User:Sitush/Common might assist. - Sitush (talk) 10:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. And I'm glad you have the Gyan (and other) responses pre-prepared.  One comment I'd make on the Gyan section is, perhaps modifying the wording to make absolutely crystal clear that reliability problems exist for books published prior to wikipedia's advent.  It is clear to me but apparently not to others as the OP mentioned four (FOUR!) times in the thread on my talkpage that it is impossible for for pre-wiki books to mirror wiki content.  Perhaps she thought I was unaware of this?  If you haven't read the thread there I urge you to, I felt like there was significant communications difficulty going on.  And thank you again for weighing in.  JanetteDoe (talk) 13:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll weigh in properly when I am home again, probably Weds. Don't be too upset about the issue: Orlady is a good egg as a rule and I suspect the problem may be underexosure to the wacky world that is Indic sourcing etc. -  Sitush (talk) 13:58, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm less concerned about Gyan sourcing issues, as I believe that will shortly be in hand. What I am concerned about at the moment is another editor's breach of WP:AGF and WP:BITE. It is mild compared to some of abuse seen on the caste talk pages, but it's still policy violations by an admin who should know better. JanetteDoe (talk) 18:31, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And she's replied. Unfortunately reminding me of a certain editor you'll remember who named himself after a tropical fruit.  Thank you for trying to be a peacemaker.  Thank you for acknowledging my frustrations.  JanetteDoe (talk) 17:18, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

New article about "Panar" caste
Hi. Sorry, if I am bothering you while seeking help.
 * After much thought for several days, I have created article Panar, Kundapura, about a backward caste; "after much thinking" because, the sources are very scar:ce.
 * Can you kindly have a glance and suggest, whether this article is worth developing? Thank you for all your support.-Rayabhari (talk) 13:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Will do when I am at home again. - Sitush (talk) 14:00, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * scar:ce. !!??  :) :) -Rayabhari (talk) 16:06, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked this one slightly - nothing major, although I've removed Global Vision because they are not a reliable publisher. You have made a good start: feel free to develop the thing further. - Sitush (talk) 07:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

New articles created by me - Kindly review
Thank you-Rayabhari (talk) 11:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Gopinatham,
 * Gangaram Building Collapse
 * Nicely done. Good organization, good refs, correct formatting, good photos.  JanetteDoe (talk) 19:05, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've copyedited both of the above. I usually do this in stages so that people can see my rationale in the edit summaries, but on this occasion I've pretty done the work in one hit. If there is anything that you do not understand or feel is inappropriate then you should say so - I am not always right. Both were nice efforts, by the way: you really are getting to grips with how things work here. Well done. - Sitush (talk) 07:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * By the way, I do realise that I've got way behind in dealing with your various articles. If there are any that you would still like me to take a look at then just yell (although I'll be on limited access here Saturday while next Wednesday). - Sitush (talk) 08:12, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for good words, copy editing and support.Rayabhari (talk) 13:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Maratha
Hi Sitush! I have a message for you at Talk:Maratha regarding your recent edit in Maratha. -Ashish57 (talk) 10:29, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Life: wiki and real
Don't mind me. I'm just blowing off steam. Our youngest cat came down with a UTI and I had to take her to the vet a little while ago. Poor thing was being driven crazy by it, running to the litter every few minutes and sitting there for another few, all to little avail. The vet gave her an injection and we have to give her some pills. We also have to collect some urine samples (on special non-absorbent litter) so that they can grow a culture and test the infection. Here is her picture (she is being held by our junior. I haven't asked either's permission :) ) File:Tuxedo and Pajamas.jpg  Our oldest cat, who is 19, is taking a bunch of medications too.  Same as the human variety, only much smaller in dosage.  Speaking of animals, do you remember Mr. Tom the turkey?  Well, he was coming regularly until late February.  Then he stopped.  He was seen once in late March, but didn't seem like himself.  He had lost weight, feathers were all ruffled and clumps here and there missing.  My better 1/2 thought he was either in a fight with another male or managed to catch some disease.  Anyway, I thought I'd share this with you.  Sometimes, in Wiki never-never land, it is easy to lose track of priorities.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  20:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

WP:REX Stale Request "Dictionary of Business Biography and Who Was Who"
Hi Sitush! Is your request about the Sheet metal industries (on Maginness) still open? I think, I can get it for you. -- Doc Taxon (talk) 21:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is indeedy, although I'd more or less given up hope. If you can find the relevant bit of SMI then I would be eekighred. - Sitush (talk) 22:07, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I will look, what I can do for you... -- Doc Taxon (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Blimey, my typing was bad yesterday. Blame the small Android keyboard and my big, fat fingers. Sorry. - Sitush (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Hemu
You have removed the chapter 'Hemu's Hindutva and Secularism' saying it is contradictory etc. The chapter reveals Hemu's personality. Though he was a committed to his religion and did not make compromise on his religious values, he was tolerent of other religions and thus was a secular, which was his plus point in taking invading Mughals. It was same with Akbar and was a plus point with him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.131.193 (talk) 14:09, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * As well as being poorly-written to the point of being gibberish in places, elsewhere it was contradictory, opinionated and unsourced/poorly sourced. Feel free to reinstate the points that you outline above provided that they comply with WP:V, WP:RS, WP:N etc ... and they make sense. - Sitush (talk) 14:37, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Ram Prasad Bismil
Hey Sitush! if you do not know Hindi why do you debar others who know English & Hindi both languages. Wikipedia is not only for English knowing persons, others also use it. If you will behave like this how would it be possible for us to read or edit. Whosoever edit this article you revert it for this reason or that reason. This is not good at all. Do not charge me for others to whom you have blocked for a indefinite period whether he be Krantmlverma or Awadhesh Pandey. If you have your proper identity put it on your user page otherwise nobody would like to talk to you. I had edited this article with proper citataion even then you reverted it. Tell me why? ....Quicksilver7784 (talk) 10:44, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have explained all of this on your talk page. Please keep the conversation there. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

September 2012
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to delete or edit legitimate talk page comments, as you did at Talk:Caste, you may be blocked from editing. ''That's enough. '' Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Piss off. - Sitush (talk) 14:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Unwove the Kashyap Rajput, Rajput Kashyap, Kahar rats' nest
Rajput Kashyap turned up in WP:UNCAT: the big red flags for me were that it the originator didn't bother to categorise or WikiProject, no sources, and of course... "Kshatriya" and "original Rajput". Did a little digging, and whodathunkit but K. S. Singh (for all his flaws) notes that claimed community as the Kashan caste of water and palanquin bearers. Did the Redirect, thought I'd check the other permutation of the name, and turns out Kashyap Rajput was yet another unref article of Kshatriya/Rajput puffery, so Redirect to the palanquiners it goes. I have a sneaking suspicion Malhotra might be the same, and it even bears the same claimed etymology, and also claims all kinds of high statuses. So I need to go see if yet another page needs to go into Kahar...

I've found no more than a handful of castes that have relatively-unchallenged Kshatriya credentials (that is, not overly challenged except by those who believe all the K.s were slaughtered in antiquity). I was genuinely impressed, and just carefully cited their "generally considered K." and moved on. Everybody else... not so much. And if you have to put "Rajput" in the name of your clan, odds are you ain't according to anybody but you, so that's always a good indicator.

Oh, note I transcribed that cite on Talk:Maratha you couldn't view. MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Articles for Creation urgently needs your help!
Sent on behalf of WikiProject Articles for creation. If you do not wish to receive anymore messages from this WikiProject, please remove your username from this page. Happy reviewing!  TheSpecialUser TSU
 * Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 09:04, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

new BLP
Hi. Hope you are busy, sorry for bothering you. I have today created T.N.A. Perumal, biography of a living person, which please review (when you find time) and tell me whether my approach is OK.
 * Thanks for all the guidance and support.-Rayabhari (talk) 10:49, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Rathore
I dont know whats ur problem why did u delete the whole article on the Rathore clan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Divyraj (talk • contribs) 11:23, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sitush removed the information because it was either unsourced of because the sources provided did not meet our reliable sources guidelines. Wikipedia requires that information be verifiable--not just a recounting of what people "know" or believe, but with valid references of a certain minimum quality. I've reverted your reinstatement of the problematic content. However, if you do know of reliable sources (check that guideline to see what that means), you can add verifiable information to the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

isn't this good enough?? http://www.maharajajodhpur.com/hh/hist_clan.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Divyraj (talk • contribs) 13:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Rather than answer you here, please could you ask the question at Talk:Rathore and I'll respond there. Article talk pages are the best place to discuss improvements to the article, specific sources etc because they are more likely to be watched by people with an interest in the specific subject than is my talk page. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 14:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

RS/N
You have questions waiting to be answered at RS/N. Please feel free to reply.--Amadscientist (talk) 09:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I am waiting for an apology or a referral to ANI etc, per your talk page. And off out to do some work. - Sitush (talk) 09:27, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm still waiting for an explanation as to what you are requesting the apology for. But if you don't wish to reply to either that is your option.--Amadscientist (talk) 11:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You have accused me of being inappropriate in my request at RSN, to the point of coming across of one of the rabid civility enforcement brigade. Perhaps you are not, but you seem also to be implying that I have some Muslim POV etc and you have absolutely no basis for any of these personalised remarks. You have turned a query about sourcing into a personalised debate and that you initially closed the thing so fast just demonstrates the knee-jerkedness of your response. I repeat what I said on your talk page: if you really believe my request to have been inappropriately worded and in breach of the linked guidelines etc that you provided then have the guts to see it through and report me instead of weaseling about it. If I was wrong then I should be sanctioned and I am happy to face that situation. Otherwise, you should apologise. How on earth someone with your attitude can have an interest in editor retention, as stated on your user page, astounds me. - Sitush (talk) 12:01, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * There are many things that are not appropriate that do not require the intervention of administration. Was the closing a knee jerk reaction. Yes. Was that not the best way to handle that situation. Yes. Do you deserve an apolgy for that? Perhaps. So I aplogise for the too-quick closing of what I thought (and still think ) was an innapropriate remark about two seperate religions and how one feels about another's so called "hero". I don't think you have "some Muslim POV etc.." What I do think is that it was not the venue to state that opinion and creates an atmosphere that is just not conducive to working on an encyclopedia.--Amadscientist (talk) 12:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

RSN and amadscientist
Sitush, you should consider collapsing your comment and leaving it at that. He doesn't want the gout mentioned there and that's his prerogative. And no sense in distracting from the main issue just to win a point. Let it go. --regentspark (comment) 14:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you seen User talk:Dennis Brown? I suggested that both comments be collapsed. - Sitush (talk) 14:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I did. I'm asking you to be the bigger guy and the one to let it go. (Especially if you empathize with his medical situation.) --regentspark (comment) 14:29, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Can't say I'm happy about it, though. I am being trampled on with all the various accusations. - Sitush (talk) 14:31, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I hear ya. But isn't masochism what wikipedia is all about :) --regentspark (comment) 14:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't usually get hit by the California civility brigade, though. Usually, it is obscenities from Delhi, Pune or wherever. I am beginning to understand where Malleus is coming from. - Sitush (talk) 15:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Discussion of author Babasaheb Purandare at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard
There is a discussion at the RS Noticeboard as to whether Purandare qualifies as a WP:RS for the article Shivaji. Discussion posted here: Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:01, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

articles for creation
you recently declinded an IPs article for creation Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Dr. A. Shekhar Pandey

the IP has also submitted Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cambridge Cardiac Care Centre and Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cambridge Cardiac Rehab which appear to be of the same caliber and can probably be quickly addressed. -- The Red Pen of Doom  20:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ - they are adverts. - Sitush (talk) 20:44, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * thank you for the speedy review! -- The Red Pen of Doom  20:49, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have the AfC script doo-dah installed, which makes the process a lot quicker. - Sitush (talk) 20:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * As for Pandey, I declined the deletion. I do not see that it violates any of the special BLP provisions that would justify deletion; only the general provisions of WP:CSD apply to AfC. -- Yes, it is merely somewhat promotional, but not so much that it couldn't be fixed by simple excision, and so does not justify G11, And of course he is not likely notable.  DGG ( talk ) 02:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I was somewhat surprised that the tool caused the article to be blanked etc. I cannot recall that happening on the odd occasion when I have used it in the past. That it also caused a G11 is really surprising. I can kinda see the sense of it, but the BLP vios were not that extreme - it was really a lack of sources issue rather than an outrageous BLP issue. So, I need to remember how the thing does it stuff and perhaps choose some alternate remedy in future. - Sitush (talk) 02:07, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It didn't cause a G11, that was just my comment for why I wasn't using that grounds for speedy. The afc-blank portion of the tool places a speedy for BLP violation and copvio and promotionalism. For copyvio it usually makes very good sense, for promotionalism sometimes, for BLP it depends. The programming is at this point very unsubtle, and I find it necessary to check every time what it actually does and adjust accordingly. I mean to encourage some major fixing, but there is so much wrong that it is an intimidating  job & I'm caught in the dilemma between catching problem cases quickly and trying with great effort & uncertainty of success to fix the root problem  DGG ( talk ) 02:18, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

User:GatorHalcon
I just thought you might like to check this out too as there may be something I'm missing here: User talk:GatorHalcon

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:32, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'd already seen that. I have Mrt3366's page watched and kinda followed the thread through. The article really should not exist, IMO, but let's see what is left of it after sorting out the problems. I'm stopping for a few minutes now - feel free to do the necessary. - Sitush (talk) 09:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've sent both the Wile and the FNDS articles to AfD. They are hopeless. - Sitush (talk) 10:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you kindly. And I agree. There isn't much hope that they will survive AfD. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:21, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Re: Edit warring
Hello; Please to avoid edit warring, for your mass editing will you kindly let us also know your plans for the article Aurangzeb format (This could also help us to contribute enthusiastically and will avoid edit conflicts.), as since couple of days you are mass editing and had chopped some sections w/o consensus on talk page which had created worry about your edits.
 * Please cooperate, as of now I would like to continue keeping the section "Education": As this is the article about a ruler who was also a scholar/author, it is important to discusses his academic/education. --Omer123hussain (talk) 10:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! since couple of days, with your mass editing behavior, I can understand that I woke you by attempting to introduce sfn style of citation, I too know that you are keen but with your un-discussed mass edits it proves you are making it a unilateral with your personal views, So kindly will you please use talk page and not remove reliable sources unless consensus is created, though Lead should not contain citations, if it is a summary of an entire article, but if the contents in the lead are still not discussed/specified in the related sections, then until it is done the RS should be applied to support the claim.
 * It does not work in that way, you cannot create your own opinion and insist the editors to believe the Reliable Source a Fake source, if you are not sure please lets confirm Reliable sources/Noticeboard about the reliability. The source is published and re-published by the Reliable publisher, translated/edited by an academic and established author, what else is required for a source to be Reliable. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 10:47, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Omer, it is NOT reliable. Now please stop being silly about this. I have suggested that you take it to WP:RSN if in doubt but have also pointed you to other discussions where people agree with me. You really need to stop this before someone starts to think that there may be a connection between you and a somewhat notorious sockpuppet. I don't think that there is, but the intransigence and the pushing of dreadful sources is of a similar pattern. So, you know what your options are. Or would you prefer me to waste my time at RSN? I'll do it if you want. - Sitush (talk) 11:05, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, bollocks to it. I'll take it to RSN myself. This is mad. - Sitush (talk) 11:07, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * See Reliable_sources/Noticeboard - Sitush (talk) 11:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I would suggest to keep the discussion on article talk page. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 11:38, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Omer, don't wind me up. I am trying as hard as I can to assume good faith but I am running out of patience here. There will come a point where I snap and I rather think that it will be considered justified. The matter is at RSN now. - Sitush (talk) 11:44, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Dougweller (talk) 11:15, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Royal College, Colombo
Would prefer your comments on the matter. Thx Cossde (talk) 16:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Help
Please Help on Gujar articles Talk page by making a comment.--Starrahul (talk) 12:20, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

question
You have reverted the clan names of Maratha Clans. Can you tell me what is the reason behind that action?--Starrahul (talk) 13:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Where? - Sitush (talk) 13:09, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Jadeja.5356
Sitush, do you have any reason to believe that you've seen this editor before, under a different name? Drmies (talk) 19:40, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I quite possibly have but I am not very good at spotting socks. For now, I'll just have to work with WP:3RR, WP:EW and WP:GS/Caste. I mean, I can AGF that they'll discuss on the article talk page but you and I both know that the chances of that are like bacon flying. IIRC, there are quite a few similar articles coming off semi-protection around now, so it's likely to be a busy time! Chauhan, for example, has just been freed up and tends to be a hotspot. - Sitush (talk) 20:18, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me know if I can help, Sitush. Drmies (talk) 14:54, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. There are a few eyes on these things but we are still a small band. You, of course, probably have heard of the boy with the thumb in the dyke. - Sitush (talk) 14:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I won't commit to it. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

kashmiri names
To username Sitush- Hello, I appreciate your inquiry, but being a Kashmiri, you can imagine that I am knowledgeable about the history, culture and people of my Kashmir. I am not sure why certain changes I had made to the Kashmiri Surnames and a few other topics were removed. After all, u can always google them to make sure that they are in fact Kashmiri surnames! Unfortunately, there are no "sources" that I can use for citing Kashmiri surnames. I hope that I am replying to your message at the proper place! If not, please let me know how to reply back to your comments, as I am new to wikipedia! Thanks for your help. Regards, Kashmirian123
 * Sorry, I had someone call earlier as I was about to respond to your message. I see that someone saw it and has explained on your talk page. I agree with what they say there. - Sitush (talk) 19:45, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit: Maithil Brahmins
Hi I didn't know introducing Maithil Brahmins as a "social group" was better than writing 1-2 full sentences about the community. And that Encyclopedia Britannica online version was unreliable. The information I provided are in fact right. There are hardly any online sources available about the community, which may be the reason why that article is so incomplete and without an introduction. Amrutha Gayathri (talk) 06:31, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it - you were being bold. But, yes, that may be the reason. Wikipedia requires that almost all statements made are verifiable by reference to reliable sources. If there are no such sources then an article should not even exist. However, sources do not have to be online. - Sitush (talk) 08:03, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

How do you give a link if the sources are not online? Amrutha Gayathri (talk) 08:37, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You don't - just omit the url, eg: But please bear in mind that the source must still comply with WP:RS and I, for one, am very likely to ask whether I can see a copy of it. While it is true that we assume good faith here on Wikipedia, I have a fair amount of experience in dealing with articles concerning Indian communities and unfortunately they are prone to a lot of poor sourcing, exaggeration, deliberate omission of "awkward" information etc, so I tend to do a lot of challenging. You probably also should be aware that using sources produced by the community is almost certainly going to be rejected: people try to use their own community sources quite a lot but they very rarely meet our standards - WP:SPS is one problem but there are others. - Sitush (talk) 08:47, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Again, how do I furnish a copy if it is not online? Why would anyone believe a citation without URL? Most of the Wiki citations I have come across don't have a URL, or lead to pages that don't exist. I'd rather trust a page with a URL that I can locate and read, than the one without or with some sort of imaginary offline URL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amrutha Gayathri (talk • contribs) 08:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, yes. I too much prefer online sources ... but they are not required and that is the consensus of the community. Despite the rapid rise of the web, my bet is that the vast majority of potential sources are still not online and a fair number of them never will be. If you find a link goes nowhere then you can tag it with, although I can explain a way to check whether there is an archived version of a webpage etc if you are interested. As for requesting a copy or a transcript etc, well, there is an email feature for registered users and people also use things such as Dropbox. I am sometimes concerned about whether these things may breach copyright laws but I defer to the wisdom of people better versed in the matter than myself! We also have a great feature at Resource Exchange, where people can request copies of sources that they cannot see. Some of those may in fact be available online but are, for example, behind a paywall - JStor, an academic journal repository, is one example. To access the email feature you need first to tick the box in "My Preferences" and provide an email address for yourself - I would suggest creating a separate email account just for use on Wikipedia, perhaps using GMail, Yahoo or another such free email provider. Once you've sorted that out, you will see "Email this user" in the menu on the left side of a user's talk page etc (assuming that they too have activated the feature, which most regulars seem to do). Feel free to keep asking questions here, btw. And if I am confusing you then you must let me know. - Sitush (talk) 09:09, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

No, you're not confusing me, just sounding like a high-handed person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amrutha Gayathri (talk • contribs) 09:30, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I am sorry about that. In what way do I appear to be high-handed? If I am giving that impression then it would help to know why, then I can perhaps fix it. - Sitush (talk) 09:34, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Caste
I've left a note for you on Talk:Caste. I'm now done with listing the tertiaries on caste-like stratification in non South Asian societies. I say in my note that you may take the ax or red pen to the subsections unsupported by these tertiaries, i.e. content which is OR, synthesis, or non-notable. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  21:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I've been keeping out of it while you did your stuff. I am on- and off-Wikipedia at the moment and I do not for one minute consider myself to be an expert wrt to the concept of caste (or, indeed, anything else). Certainly, you are far more adept than me in seeing the bigger picture as presented by academic sources for stuff like this. But I'll work my way through the voluminous discussions and such sources that are mentioned and available to me. I might even just use some common sense. Has Tom reappeared? I got inundated with RL stuff and never did reply to your message above that mentioned him. I have no idea what the lifespan of his species is but my guess would be that it is fairly short in human terms, even if not subject to the huntin' shootin' fraternity. Maybe four or five years? And I hope that the cat UTI is improving: my only experiences of that have, alas, been deathly (ie: the UTI turned out to be kidney failure with a rapid but rather distressing end - which happened to three of 'em). I will upload a photo of my current dog to Commons or wherever one day: he is now 6 y.o. but is a rare species. Small and cute, although not pampered with a silly, poncey show haircut, he serves me well as a "hearing dog". As for concerns regarding hirsuteness, well, let's say that my nomination of Follicle Nutrient Deficiency Syndrome (FNDS) at AfD was absolutely nothing to do with the fact that, with my 50th impending in November, I am suddenly experiencing a certain thin-ness. - Sitush (talk) 23:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That is one sissy dog you got there, Sitush. Mine is a mutt with part pitbull, descended of the Gahlot--so don't fuck with her, since they are the most fiercesome of all God's clans and the most honored in the world for their renowned ferocious martiality and honor in war. And don't give me no crap about a certain thinness: I've been bald since I shaved my freak-flag, back in the late 1980s, and you don't hear me complain about it. Ha! BTW, you outscore me by a hundred points or more... Drmies (talk) 14:48, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Aye, those involved with drugs round my 'hood just fall about laughing when I walk Gyp, but at least their jollity make it less likely that they'll hit me over the head. Not that most of them could reach my head. Or see that I am morphing into you atop it ;) What the heck is that adminscore tool? I've not seen that one before. Is being 100 up A Good Thing or A Bad Thing? - Sitush (talk) 19:53, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I found it on the RfA talk page. A score of over a 1000 indicates good potential for an admin according to some of the quantifiable parameters that seem to be required. There's extensive and interesting discussion on that talk page. That you score higher than me simply means you're a better man. Drmies (talk) 14:15, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Royal College, Colombo
I am surprised that you are doing exactly the same thing that you are accusing me of ! Without blindly reverting could you please read the edit summery? Or you were not bothered on doing that. Yet all the editing done by User:RajaPaiya (which means "Royal Dick" translated from Sinhalese) which have been done without discussing, you have let them be. Are you being neutral here ? If you are please tell me what you have against me ! Cossde (talk) 13:39, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have explained on the article talk page. Now please stop warring and discuss. You appear deliberately to have hidden one controversial element under a bland edit summary, and you know very well that conducting content disputes via edit summary is not productive. - Sitush (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, if you think that the username is offensive then report it. Given your ability to quote policy etc at length, I'll assume that you know where to do so. But please note that an offensive name is one thing and an edit connected to it is another. Since there is ambiguity (if could be a member/former member of the college called Richard, for example) I doubt that the name will be considered offensive, but you are welcome to try. - Sitush (talk) 13:54, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * How can I discuses with people like |this ? Cossde (talk) 14:17, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with the name, only with the edits of the user. I just wanted to bring the name to your attention thats all.Cossde (talk) 14:16, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Why waste my time bringing something to my attention that you do not have a concern with? Why should I be any more concerned than you? As for your diff, which presumably refers to, well, there were other people involved in the discussion and indeed you had spread that discussion far and wide. Singling out one person is disingenuous and, frankly, being disingenuous seems to be a big part of your recent difficulties. FWIW, I very nearly left a note on that user's talk page for this contribution because it might be construed as grave-dancing, but the thing is ambiguous and I rather hoped that you would rise above it. - Sitush (talk) 14:27, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It only goes to show how difficult it is to carryout a meaningful discussion in a talk page and how difficult it is come to a compromise as more newly created editors (with vulgar names) come up and freely carryout the work of their puppet masters (in this case I didn't not mean you). Cossde (talk) 14:57, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If you think that someone is socking then go here. Alternately, you could ask for semi-protection and that would probably get the ok. However, semi-protection would not stop people from commenting on article talk pages and, really, discussing is what you should be doing also. You've accused at least one IP of vandalism today when their edit clearly was not; you've been disingenuous as described above; you keep flipping between saying that you are concerned about a user name and that you are not (you've just changed your mind again); you are making sock allegations but doing nothing about it, etc. All these combined seem to me to be signs that someone is either very frustrated or very desperate. There are ways for you to deal with the former and I have pointed you to a few solutions; for the latter, there are ways for the community to deal with you. That's just how it is, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 15:06, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Assistance sought
Sitush ji, Namaskar. I understand I continue to be on your watch-list. Therefore, you are aware of the two articles viz. 1) Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Astrological aspect (Hindu Astrology) and 2) Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Anatman (Hindu philosophy), that I have been struggling to create. I also sincerely believe that you are better equipped to judge these two articles knowing about the subject-matter more than the reviewers who have twice declined to accept these articles.


 * As regards Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Astrological aspect (Hindu Astrology), it was suggested that the same be merged with Hindu astrology in which context I had said that merger will not serve any purpose unless Hindu astrology which touches upon salient aspects but only superficially is also elaborately re-worked to bring all those salient aspects up to the same detailed-level as that of my proposed article. Moreover, there already exist, side by side, the articles Western astrology and Astrological aspects, both dealing solely with Western astrology. There can be no harm done if my article is also treated in the same manner. You are kindly aware that Western astrology and Hindu astrology are in many ways two different systems.


 * As regards Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Anatman (Hindu philosophy), I submit I have failed to know what is amiss. The concept of Anatman in Buddhism and the concept of Anatman in Hinduism are not identical. The existing article Anatman solely deals with the Buddhist concept in great detail (because it has been improved and expanded over time), therefore, I sought creation of a separate article on Anatman (Hindu philosophy) which is not presently as much detailed but I am certain would be in future when expanded by many other more learned editors/contributors.

I have twice been told that those editors who review thereafter do not review the articles that they have already reviewed once.

I need your assistance.Soni Ruchi (talk) 03:44, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Hm. I'm afraid that my knowledge of the subject matter is almost zero. I have some sympathy for your arguments but I am not really confident enough of the topics to see them through. I do know of someone who is good on Hinduism ... but I've forgotten who it is! Their name will come back to me during today and I'll see if they are able to comment. - Sitush (talk) 09:45, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Now had my coffee and brain is in gear. User:Redtigerxyz is the editor. I'll ask them to take a look at this thread. - Sitush (talk) 10:01, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Adi Shankara
Hi, you forgot to sign your comment. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 02:41, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops. It happens once every few weeks. I've fixed it, thanks. BTW, are you aware of Template:Sign2? Anyone can use it (or variants on the same theme) to fix an unsigned post. - Sitush (talk) 08:07, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I was not aware. I will use them.Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 10:56, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Royal Preparatory School
Xe2oner has reverted constructive edits done by me on Royal Preparatory School, India House (Colombo), Kumaratunga Munidasa Mawatha and  Royal College Wayamba, Kurunegala. What should I do about this ? Cossde (talk) 08:05, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Royal Preparatory School
 * India House (Columbo)
 * Kumaratunga Munidasa Mawatha
 * Royal College Wayamba
 * Are the above diffs the various reverts that you refer to? - Sitush (talk) 09:50, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes. Cossde (talk) 11:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Aren't and  involved with those articles? As I understand it, they have been trying to deal with the issues regarding naming etc that exist between yourself and . I mean, it is possible that neither of them have spotted these edits but it is also possible that they consider them to be ok. I'll take a look, sure, but I don't particularly want to be dragged into this mess across umpteen articles, involves a lot of friction between a couple of people and is likely to end up in tears for both of them. This row has been going on for months and I wonder if some form of dispute resolution has been sought? - Sitush (talk) 12:18, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * No, they are not involved in those two articles. This form of edit warring has been going on for along time with newly created editors doing the same thing over and over again. These are the last two such fellows Sockpuppet investigations/Masu7/Archive. Honestly I am not sure if its User:Masu7 or User:Obi2canibe. But Masu7 looks like the most likely cause he has done similar things before;
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * Cossde (talk) 12:33, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * OK. Just because someone is socking or engaging in meatpuppetry (assuming for now that they are) is not itself an argument that impacts on the validity any of sourced information that they may have added etc. Using multiple accounts or whatever in a manner that is contrary to policy is one thing, while a content dispute is another. The overlap, if any, is in the area of WP:AGF. However, I am looking into it and had already tried to start at the beginning. Let's try to get your allegations cleared up and then we can perhaps progress. I'd suggest that you leave those articles alone until we've resolved the allegations: there is no point in getting involved in a war and risking another block. We'll be talking maybe a few days, and the fight does not seem to me to be over anything unduly damaging (not, for example, a BLP violation). - Sitush (talk) 12:54, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * What do you think I should do about this . It is clearly wrong. Cossde (talk) 11:29, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Raise it on the talk page, provide a rationale for your position and give Xe2oner and others an opportunity to respond. Honestly, there are likely blocks a-coming and I'd keep yourself squeaky clean. - Sitush (talk) 11:34, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

barwas page deletion
hi sitush i am ajay sheoran a villager of barwas.recently i have created the page barwas in this page i have made all the informations 100% true as my concern and my village data present in our sarpench documents and online records.so pls change it according to my given data. thanks, ajay sheoran — Preceding unsigned comment added by Er.ajaysheoran (talk • contribs) 03:48, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ajay, unfortunately, Wikipedia requires reliable sources for all information. We can't rely on people's personal experience, or sites like jatland.com that are also created by users. Finally, I removed your phone number from your post--you should never ever put that on Wikipedia, for your own protection. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:03, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Remember me?

 * Doing a lot of reading at the mo, Tito. I've tasked myself with improving Aurangzeb and I am dreading some stuff that others are hoping I'll contribute to the Caste article, so my time on-wiki is mostly being spent reverting the usual poor stuff and getting into the usual arguments about my actions! - Sitush (talk) 10:20, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

M.R.N. Prasad
Hi how do you want me to provide you community information fro my Father? We are from the community. Thanks Ppprasad (talk) 10:06, 7 October 2012 (UTC)ppprasad


 * Wikipedia relies on verifiability by reference to reliable sources. In other words, we cannot rely on what you know and, indeed, we also do tend to discourage people contributing to an article where they have a conflict of interest. Although it is possible that written documentation from the community would be acceptable (mainly because your father is no longer living), I think it rather unlikely. A decent newspaper report or something from a book published by a reputable publisher would do the trick. - Sitush (talk) 10:17, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Stay
S., I was reading this here because I am a nosey bugger...however, it made me feel quite badly. I hope you will not be gone, but I can empathise with you being sick of what happens here. I suppose you've seen the present discussions about civility and what to do/not do about it/its lack. Such nonsense, coming from the rudest people here. However, I see you are good, helpful, working too hard perhaps--and you deserve better. I hope you do not leave WP.~© Djathink imacowboy  06:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * +1. Salvio  Let's talk about it! 11:43, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You're one of our best contributors, but I am equally appalled by the behaviour of ArbCom and I can understand your withdrawal of your voluntary labour. I'm considering how to respond myself, but for now I'm sticking to commenting on the various proposals. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:57, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Sitush, I'm sure you'll be missed. I'm going to stick around for a few more days to see how this ends, although I doubt this farce would take that long to play out. Eitherways, as a better and more net-negative non-Wikipedian, you're likely to be missed more than many. I do like the concept of Wikipedia, although en.wiki appears to be a failed experiment now, so I'm thinking of switching to ta.wiki, so if you're ready to learn a new language, feel free to stop by, I can translate your contributions, free of charge! Another alternative is Commons and you could start picture books at this advanced age! cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff 
 * Of course, I would also be upset to see you leave. Could someone please point me to the Arbcom decision that has Sitush (and, seemingly others) so upset? Qwyrxian (talk) 23:02, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I found it. Blood in the water indeed. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:17, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Called in to manually archive this page. Hopefully those to whom I had responded recently have now had a chance to see those responses. I'll be back when (if) fully retracts their ridiculous "Malleus is not a Wikipedian" statement (and, preferably, resigns) and when  and those who supported the out-of-process ban proposal all come to their senses and stop proposing/supporting ban motions that they themselves do not want to happen ... With some notable exceptions, ArbCom has lost its collective head at present. - Sitush (talk) 06:29, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Btw, this, this and this comment may be instructive. - Sitush (talk) 08:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Someone has brought the issue up at WP:Wikiproject Editor Retention and User:Diannaa is keeping a list, which is at least 9 known now, and surely many more inactive or retired. I've not done much, my heart hasn't been in it.  Jclemens hasn't been online to reply to any of my comments on his talk page, but it would likely be moot, as there are plenty there who are putting him on a pedestal for his comments.  Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 01:48, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You'll be missed Sitush. Hopefully you will be able to return in the future.Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:54, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Scindia
Hi Sitush, No worries at all. I'd appreciate if you could help improve his page, because he is accepted and is known as the titular Maharaja of Gwalior. You know you can really find bookish sources for these. I tried to find the best sources. and I was trying to link all the Maratha pages under one banner, as one can easily move from one to another relevant page. Cheers --Bhonsale (talk) 07:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

"Voting" in arbspace
Hey, Sitush. As soon as I'd posted my own comment on the "illegal" clarification motion, I decided to move it out of the actual arbitrator voting space. I figured it would be in the way there, in case someone on the committee decided to "adopt" or otherwise allow the motion and start to vote on it (a forlorn hope, no doubt). Yours turned up in the edit conflict I got, so I took it with me. Sorry, but I only had a few seconds to think what to do, and it seemed sensible. Please put your comment where you want it, if you disagree! (And if the motion's still on the page.) Bishonen &#124; talk 13:40, 22 October 2012 (UTC).
 * No problem. It was going to get deleted anyway but the point was valid & I'll find a way to make it when I'm using a PC rather than a phone. On a different topic, I think that there is a tool somewhere that allows me to search contributions for a phrase used by an editor. Any ideas? - Sitush (talk) 13:45, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nobody Ent 13:59, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that was quite what Sitush asked for, Enty. Or maybe it was. Snottywong has a tool that searches a particular user's edit summaries only, not the contributions themselves. Also not quite the same thing. I suggest you try User talk:RexxS. Bishonen &#124; talk 14:12, 22 October 2012 (UTC).

WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request/Stale requests
Dear Sitush! You still wanted the article about Maginness in "Sheet metal industries". It was prohibited to copy it, so I typed it for you:

Sir Greville S. Maginness. In: ''Sheet Metal Industries. The only Journal solely devoted to the manufacture, working, pressing, welding and finishing of ferrous and non-ferrous metals in sheet and strip form''. Bd. 25, Nr. 258, London 1948, S. 1997. .

Sir GREVILLE S. MAGINNESS

SIR GREVILLE SIMPSON MAGINNESS, Chairman and Managing Director of The Churchill Machine Tool Co. Ltd., Broadheath, Nr. Manchester, and Chairman of Roneo Ltd., Southampton Row, London, and Romford, was born in Devon in 1888.

Sir Greville’s father, Edmund John Maginness, M. V. O., C. B. E., was Deputy-Director of Dockyards for the Admiralty, and played an important part in the building of the first “Dreadnought” in 1906. Much of Sir Greville’s early life was therefore spent at Devonport and Portsmouth. He was educated at Plymouth and Mannamead, his education being continued in France and Germany. He is a good linguist in the language of both these countries.

As a young man Sir Greville showed a strong natural bent as a business negotiator. At Kynoch Ltd. he was associated with Mr. Arthur Chamberlain, and in 1924, when Mr. Chamberlain became Chairman of The Churchill Machine Tool Co. Ltd., Sir Greville was appointed Managing Director. On Mr. Chamberlain’s death during the war, Sir Greville became Chairman of the company and also of Roneo Ltd. Knighthood was conferred in 1946. For the duration of the war, also, he was a Member of the Industrial Panel to the Minister of Production.

Sir Greville was one of the first to appreciate the possibilities of big-scale business with Russia, and for some years has been President of the Russo-British Chamber of Commerce, and is also Chairman of the Russian Sub-Committee of the F. B. I.

When the Government formed their Engineering Advisory Council, Sir Greville was invited to serve on the Employers’ Panel as Chairman. He is a Past President of the Machine Tool Trades Association and a member of the Main Committee of the Government-appointed Machine Tool Advisory Council, he also occupies the important position of President of the British Employers’ Confederation. In addition he is Chairman of Associated British Machine Tool Makers Ltd., and Deputy Chairman of Tube Investments Ltd.


 * -- Doc Taxon (talk) 14:45, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:REX
and this is open, too ... Do you still need these pages? Greetings, -- Doc Taxon (talk) 01:09, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Chhokar
Would you please take a look if you return?

As for returning, I too have been very put off enwp over the same matter, but for different reasons.

I hope you return. I like you. Maybe we could establish a new core and set an example. We've been let down, I think. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:14, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Jinnah
Hi Sitush, I hope that you remember me from Jinnah's talk page(where we first talked). I have been working with some experienced editors on the article and it is almost complete now. Don't know why a good and experienced editor like you have left Wikipedia, but I hope that you return soon. Do take a look at the article as we have nominated it for FA. Looking forward to hear from you soon. -- Inland mamba   (fruitful thought) 17:59, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Paraiyar
Hi sitush, i haven't logged in for several days,i am busy with others, so i read your message lately. In article 'Paraiyars', i will do my best. I hope you will come back soon. Thistorian (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Joyson
You heard from him or what?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  20:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedians
You joined the Category:Wikipedians who are not a Wikipedian, which is being discussed at its entry at Categories nominated for deletion.

You may wish to join the category Category:Wikipedians working towards even enforcement of civility.

Kiefer .Wolfowitz  10:31, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Thiyyar community
I would like to know whether its possible to remove redirect from Thiyyar, Thiyya,Thiya to Ezhava. State Government of Kerala has approved request from Thiyya mahasabha that Thiyya community be registered separately from Ezhava. I am ready to supply the letter from sate government curtsy of Thiyya Mahasabha if you are ready to reconsider your opposition to separate page for Thiyya community.--Rahulkris999 (talk). —Preceding undated comment added 14:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Geez, I've only been out of hospital for a few hours, I am coughing my guts up and this crap raises its head again :( No. We have been through this before. A bit of pressure applied by your caste association - as happens frequently - cannot negate the prevalent viewpoint. Feel free to add something to the Ezhava article, but bear in mind WP:PRIMARY and WP:DUE. And, in your case, WP:COI. You cannot use a PR exercise from an involved organisation to overturn the academic consensus. It is just another form of Sanskritisation: people self-claiming to be things that the vast majority do not accept. Maybe the academic consensus will change and, sure, if it does then perhaps the situation can be reconsidered. With apologies if this reads like a nasty response: I am on quite a high dose of steroids & it is likely affecting my mood. Not to forget the unresolved issues related to the heading at the top of this page. - Sitush (talk) 00:09, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Academic consensus ya right may be that could be the reason why mods have not taken any action on Chekavar page?--Rahulkris999 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * There are no moderators on Wikipedia: the community determines the content. As for the state of the Chekavar article or indeed any other, well, we have over 4 million articles here and no-one can keep track of them all. A read of WP:OSE might be illuminating. - Sitush (talk) 17:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Arbitrary heading
Sitush, can you please let me know if you've heard anything from Joyson Prahbu, I've not heard from him in a month, I hope nothing bad has happened to him, please let me know.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  15:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * No, sorry. I emailed him but got no response. I am aware of his health issues and will dig further when my own health is improved. He should not be difficult to track down. - Sitush (talk) 17:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm worried about him, as I think you are also aware. Sorry to hear you are in such poor health. I wish you all the best.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've mailed you. - Sitush (talk) 17:58, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Sitush, I have just read the previous section and wanted to drop by to wish you get well soon. See you around. Salvio  Let's talk about it! 19:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Red Lines
Dear Sitush! Did you read the red lines above? -- Doc Taxon (talk) 13:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * My apologies. Yes, I saw the stuff but have been (a) unwell and (b) somewhat pissed off with the environment here. I am grateful for the transcript that you provided and, yes, I will use it - it is very useful info and your efforts are much appreciated. Whether I carry on doing other things here is at present somewhat moot but I hope that if I do then perhaps I could get back to you regarding the other issue? I apologise if this sounds as if I am taking advantage of your kindness etc: I am not in a great place right now but remain optimistic. - Sitush (talk) 01:28, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Please stop canvassing and please stop stalking my edits.
Please stop canvassing, as you did here. I notice that the canvassed ed, Qwyrxian has promptly turned up in your support. I have no respect for support gained by underhand means. Also please stop stalking me in articles I edit, as you did here, here , here. I do not think you could act in a neutral/reasonable way, particularly in matters related to Pakistan. Please let others deal with these issues.OrangesRyellow (talk) 10:37, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. I have not canvassed and I am correct in my application of policy etc. You've tried this before and failed (at ANI) but feel free to take me there again. Just watch out for the boomerang. - Sitush (talk) 10:39, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Please note, OrangesRyellow, that WP:STALK does not apply when there is a serious concern that a person's edits violate policy. For example, if I spot an editor vandalizing one page, I often look at the user's other contributions to see if this is part of a bigger problem. If Sitush thinks that you're violating policies on those edits, he's not only allowed, but, in fact, encouraged to see if there are other problems. Following another user is only "stalking" if the intention is to aggravate or irritate the other editor. Given past experiences, I sincerely doubt that's what's occurring here. Instead, I recommend trying to listen to what Sitush says, as there's a very good chance that he's accurately representing our policy. However, if you have concerns, you're welcome to raise them with me on my talk page. Finally, canvasing only applies to cases where you're trying to stack a discussion (like an RfC or deletion discussion)--it doesn't apply to asking another editor for advice. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:26, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Tbh, if the items that I am removing at Terrorist incidents in Pakistan in 2012 really are down to OrangesRyellow then there may be a case to be opened at WP:CCI and there is certainly a very good case for close examination of their other edits. I don't think I have found one entry so far that is not a copyright violation & I am sorely tempted to blank the page. - Sitush (talk) 11:42, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Pakistan has been in the grip of extremist violance for the last two years at least. Human rights of women, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Ahmadiyas, Shias, Hazaras, etc. have been violated extensively and I am concerned that Wikipedia is doing a piss-poor job of noting these events. Sitush, being Pakistani POV, is trying to prevent me from doing so. He is stalking my edits only for this reason. His trouble with the Terrorist incidents in Pakistan in 2012 article was already obvious to me. He could not bear even looking at a copy of the article on my user page. Please note that WP in not censored. WP:CENSOR. He does not want to see that, and other articles which are troublesome for Pakistani POV types. He has deleted lots of properly sourced content and is looking to delete more. He should be restrained from editing these articles. In the above-mentioned article, only some recent additions are my contributions. Look into the article's history. Others have contributed to this article and I am not responsible for what other people may have done. Sitush's non neutral, pro Pakistani POV is too obvious and is unacceptable. And I do not agree with Qwyrxian's minimalist interpretation of WP:CANVAS. I understand that it has a much wider scope and can apply to article content disputes where others are roped in for support.OrangesRyellow (talk) 12:21, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You've accused me of a Pakistani POV before and have consistently ignored evidence to the contrary. Keep this up and you'll likely find yourself blocked. - Sitush (talk) 12:32, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude, laugh it off. OrangeRyellow, your accusation is ridiculous--Sitush has the same POV I have, which is that Wikipedia articles should follow Wikipedia policies. But, if it amuses you, look through his archives and those of ANI's; you'll see he's been accused of British colonisalist POVs, POV's supporting a half dozen different castes, Indian POVs, etc., etc. No accusation was ever found to be correct. And if the entries he is removing on that list are copyright violations, than POV isn't even a relevant question: we cannot, ever, for even a short minute, directly copy text from other sources. Sitush, I'd recommend against a complete blanking, unless you get through, say, more than a third of the list and almost everything has been a copyvio. If you do blank it, use the copyvio blanking template and list it on WP:Copyright problems. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:38, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've been holding off the blanking. So far, I've cut from 97k to 75k and all bar a couple have been copyvios. If it gets to, say, 60-65k then I'll probably report the thing. But I'll probably lose the will to live before then ... - Sitush (talk) 12:46, 9 November 2012 (UTC)