User talk:Sketcher man

Nomination of Iron Projects for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Iron Projects is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Iron Projects until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:35, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia basics
Hi, let's please ignore for a second that I've nominated your first article for deletion. I'm not here as an antagonist. I wanted to offer you a few basic tips, because I can tell that you want to be a constructive editor here. If I can encourage you to take a look at the manual of style, and specifically as it pertains to your field of interest (for example, MOS:MUSIC) I think you'll benefit a great deal. One of many ways Iron Projects was suffering, was from inappropriate use of bold text, italics, ""quotations"", etc. A good rule of thumb: You'll almost never use bold. Save it for the name of the subject in the lead sentence. (See Jimmy Stewart). Italics are used for the titles of larger works. Star Wars, Seinfeld, Straight Outta Compton. Quotations are used for minor works, like song titles or article titles or episode titles. "Gangsta Gangsta", "The Contest", etc. Obviously there are some exceptions and other uses, but for an introduction, this is what I've got. Regards. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:33, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

==author reply= i really do appreciate your feedback and thank you, i intend to make the adjustments, it is my first article and i was merely trying to format it clearly and there's so much just in the way of code to learn to begin with, i intend to make the suggested changes and also remove the "advertising" speak.

to clarify i'm not associated with the band but did attend many of their shows and felt they are worthy of the page since there is hardly anything about them anywhere.
 * Hi Sketcher, in order for other editors to help you out, you need to be familiar with some Wikipedia policies, including what constitutes a reliable source and what constitutes original research. You also should take a look at the general notability guidelines.


 * I've looked through all of the sources in the article. I have NEVER made this kind of of effort for an AfD (articles for deletion) nomination (because the burden is on the contributor to establish notability).  But because I can tell you're a good dude and you are editing in earnest, I want to help you through the thought process so you can (hopefully) see that none of the references help to establish notability.


 * In this reference we learn that they tied as non-winners. We are INFERRING that they were "runners up" but that is not implicitly stated in the source. For all we know, they were considered "losers". (Not trying to be a dick, just stating that there are two ways to look at it.) We would need a better source to establish them as "runners-up". Maybe the official announcement from OzHipHop?
 * In this reference we learn that Oso was featured on a track. that is for sale on Australias biggest music store and was the precursore to 360 getting his fecord deal that went Platinum.
 * In this reference we find out that Pabstrakt produced some tracks.
 * In this one we learn again that Pabstrakt produced some tracks. on an independent album that got 360_(rapper) a record deal and his next album went platinum.
 * Again, Pabstrakt is a producer.NO you clearly didnt read it, that he appeared alongside a future superstar on FM Radio
 * Not quite sure what we learn here. That Requiem exists as an artist? yes, on a mainstream FM radio stations website, confirming he is real and notable
 * In this reference we learn that Pabstrakt produced some tracks, but nothing attempts to say if the tracks were hits, or if they were important in any way. not in this article, but other references do say that about his work on these tracks
 * Here, Pabstrakt's tracks are described as unique. WRONG, they say his production(means making the beat) contributed to the "unique sound" of the song, which is spoken of very favourably.
 * Here is a vague statement about Pabstrakt's contributions resulting in a product that is "nicely put together." which i didnt actually quote i just used to reference my claim that he had worked on it.
 * Pabstrakt's discography featuring 2 albums. 2 albums that i just spoke about
 * In this reference, Iron Projects is finally mentioned. Illy says that he performed alongside Iron Projects, but that's about it. he says he CAME UP PERFORMING with them "performing" is more than once, it confirms my previous referenced claims from ozhiphop.com of regularly performing with him. Its an interview, sorry that it was one of the last questions the interviewer asked. why would he mention the band if they werent notable in the culture to mention?
 * Iron Projects is slated to perform. A fan goes "hoot!" merelys evidence of gigs
 * Iron Projects is again slated to perform. alongside artists with mutliple albums signed to Universal Records and an international act on tour from engalnd.
 * In this reference we learn that Iron Projects existed, and co-headlined, but nothing to establish their notability. NO AGAIN, you also learn that they were entertaining, tightly rehearsed, and showing others how the crews of melbourne do
 * Jhay V was a guest on GMC's album.
 * This reference is being used to establish that some Iron Projects had close-ups in a video.
 * Upokalypz will be performing. alongside reallly big name acts
 * In this reference, we learn only that Upokalypz will be performing March 5th of some unspecified year. WRONG, all posts are timestamped as 2011, alongside an international superstar
 * Here we learn that Iron Projects member Brazen produced a short piece for the Australian Center for the Moving Image. This only tells us that a member of Iron Projects got another job, or volunteered some time doing something else. It doesn't tell us anything about the importance of Iron Projects, their relevance, their contributions to hip-hop, or to establish their notability.
 * Basically the same as the previous reference. An autobiographical piece from Mykel. Doesn't tell us about Iron Projects or establish notability.
 * This reference only tells us that the Culture Victoria website is owned by the state government. Nothing in it about Iron Projects. i was referencing my claim of what Culture Victoria is, as you marked it as jargon
 * Another autobiographical piece from Mykel. Doesn't suggest in any way that Iron Projects is notable.  It's also the same video we've already seen.
 * Refers to Mykel, but doesn't talk about him in any significant way.


 * So that's it. In all of these references, "Iron Projects" as a group is only mentioned four times.  Three times they are mentioned to advertise their performances.  None of the references describe their significance, impact or notability.  I would also argue that none of the references do much to establish notability of any of the individual members.  Regards,  Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

'''hykoo mentioned them as an influence on his music in 2006(approx) doesnt describe their impact? they influenced a signed artist with multiple albums he says so himself''' theyre mentioned specifically by Illi and Hykko both individual references and their inter-state performance was reviewed positively by name. so there are 3 specific references (there are many more) that you have chosen to completely ignore from your evaluation.


 * Why do you choose to ignore that hykoo names the group as an influence for his music specifically?
 * how does placing 2nd in "best live act in australia" not make you runner-up? that is the definition of "runner-up". and what makes a graph edited and controlled by a business' website admin unreliable? (and if you're not trying to be a dick like you insist, why cant you clearly see the evidence is there.. and give me time to, or assist in locating this "official announcement" you seek and can see reference to (proving its existence)?
 * to qualify for notability by wiki standards you have to place.. not only did they place, they came 2nd.
 * the reference IS a post by the website/business administrator showing they placed 2nd in the form of a graph with exact percentages.

'''im sorry but your evaluation of the references are simply wrong. Mykel IS from the Iron Projects, it is about him and his music (that he does with the iron projects) the entire video is about music ''' and if you watched the credits you'd see that pabstrakt is involved, thus making it clearly a piece by the Iron Projects.
 * Basically the same as the previous reference. An autobiographical piece from Mykel. Doesn't tell us about Iron Projects or establish notability.
 * the fact it was chosen by a department of the Australian Government to represent sub-cultures of Australia and "identity and youth" isn't noteworthy?
 * the fact it is chosen to represent cultures in the state of Victoria AND is also used and a teaching lesson isnt noteworthy? you just dismiss it as "the same video" yes, but in different contexts and references different claims (that are true and referenced) about the video.

why are you approaching this form the perspective that total notability has to be established by every single source every time? every statement in there is referenced, but you are attacking individual references for only telling parts of the story. Even when other references fill in the very holes you are poking at.

Your recent edits
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Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 07:20, 14 October 2013 (UTC)