User talk:Skierjoe

Laszlo Kovacs
I am Laszlo's daughter, and I have copies of his diploma from film school AND his final dissertation from Hungarian Film School. I am in the process of reporting this to the Wikipedia foundation. You have no fact to back up what you are putting into the article and I have factual material that disproves what you are saying. I am restoring the article to the original information before your initial edit. I will continue to do so until wikipedia can handle this matter. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadiakovacs (talk • contribs) 17:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Please do not re-add this material to the article without a citation to support it. I have found absolutely nothing online to support this allegation, and in the face of this, Wikipedia requires that a citation be provided to verify the factuality of the information. If you re-add this material without a supporting citation, you may be subject to being blocked from editing. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 22:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

February 2009
Please do not add unsourced or original content. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Fabrictramp |  talk to me  22:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Personal knowledge versus verifiability
Skierjoe - Regardless of what you say your personal knowledge is this information cannot be included in a Wikipedia article if it is not backed up by a published reliable source . If you do not have a citation by which anyone can verify the accuracy of your claims you may not add them to the article.  Please, do not add the information to the article again with a proper citation. If you are unsure about Wikipedia's policies in this matter, please see WP:Reliable sources and WP:Verifiability. Thanks. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 02:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Ed Fitzgerald - If you or Nadia were to take the time to Google “Joseph S. Miko, Hungarian cinematographer” you will get the validation you are seeking. Nevertheless, I will assemble the various certificates, citations and awards received by my father corroborating what I have posted is true. However, validation is a two way street. Please have Ms Nadia Kovacs also validate what she has posted regarding Laszlo Kovacs having filmed the 1956 Hungarian revolution. Remember, in a court of law stories told to someone, even if it’s by their father, is considered hearsay and generally not admissible as evidence, whereas firsthand knowledge and accounts, which I have, are.


 * References for the information in the Laszlo Kovacs article are present -- enumerated at the bottom of the page -- and they are reliable sources cited from books, magazine, professional journals and newspapers. There is nothing there which is controversial. On the other hand, the defamatory information you wish to inject is wholly unsourced. You seem to be the only source for this, and Wikipedia only uses independent and reliable published sources as references. Not hearsay. Please read the links that Ed Fitzgerald has noted. Searches on Google return no reliable sources to back up your statements. In fact, bios about Joseph Miko (such as this one) only corroborate the article as currently written. — Cactus Writer |   needles  23:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I have indeed Googled Mr. Miko, and I found nothing whatsoever to support the claims you are making. I fook forward to you providng the reliable sources you say exist to support your contentions.  In the meantime, do not add the information to the article without them.  Continuing to do so could get you blocked from editing on Wikipedia.  Thanks.  Ed Fitzgerald t / c 00:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Ed Fitzgerald - The guidelines for accuracy defined by Wikipedia is “…reliable, third-party, published sources...” Of course, this methodology to establish credibility is highly flawed. There have been far too many instances of journalist publishing inaccurate stories or stories with inaccurate facts. Just because it was written and published it does not mean it is factual or true. Nevertheless, since this is your criterion then I will abide by it.

I think we all agree on the fact that Laszlo Kovacs and Vilmos Zsigmond escaped out of Hungary together during the 1956 Hungarian Revolution and whatever films they had of the revolution they brought them out of the country together. There have been a number of interviews and articles written about both of them and the details of their escape and the accompanying films. But hear is where the plot thickens and gets confusing. There is a major discrepancy between what Laszlo Kovacs has claimed and what Vilmos Zsigmod has said.

In an interview posted on the CGI website ([]) journalist Bob Fisher quoted Vilmos Zsigmond crossing the border with 10,000 feet of film. In an interview with Laszlo Kovacs of the same event, also posted on the CGI website, Bob Fisher quotes Kovacs of having 30,000 feet of film.

An interview with Vilmos Zsigmond posted on the Camera Guild website, ([]) complete with audio, states: “Vilmos Zsigmond tells how he and Laszlo Kovacs escaped from Hungary with 10,000 feet of film they had shot of the 1956 Hungarian uprising.”

A Profile by Laszlo Kriston on Vilmos Zsigmond posted on the AR IFF website ([]) also talks about 10,000 feet of film.

A recent blog on Meta Filter website ([]) reports “. …the duo smuggled 10,000 feet of film out of the country…”

On Vilmos Zsigmod’s Wikipedia site there is no mention of the 30,000 ft of film of the Hungarian Revolution.

The source for the 30,000 ft of film is Laszlo Kovacs, which is drastically different from Zsigmond’s account. Unfortunately, Kovacs is no longer alive and cannot be asked to explain how he came up with this number. But, Zsigmond is and we (my father before he passed away) did ask him about Kovacs’s claim of 30,000 ft of film which appeared on Kovacs’s own website. Zsigmond responded by saying that it was an error in posting by the website hosting company and that they only had about 10,000 ft of film.

There is also another aspect to Kovacs’s claim, simple math. A 10-inch diameter 135mm film can holds 1,000 feet of film. Therefore, 30,000 feet of film would require at least 30 cans. In those days the film cans were metal as were the film reels themselves inside. The two men were also carrying a 135mm motion picture camera (also made of metal) with a lead acid battery required to run it (I know they had a camera because I have seen the footage they shot during the boarder crossing) along with some of their personal effects. Walking for miles over uneven ground in the winter, as my parents and I did with just a backpack, evading boarder guards and Soviet patrols was very difficult. Doing it with that cumbersome and heavy load would have been next to impossible.

Perhaps Nadia, Laszlo Kovacs’s daughter, would like to share where the original films that her father shot of the revolution are being stored and if they are available for authentication. I know where my father’s films are and they are available for authentication.

Based on the above the story of Laszlo Kovacs posted on Wikipedia lacks credibility as per the Wikipedia guidelines of reliable, third party, published sources, and needs to be corrected.

As for the validity and accuracy of Joseph S. Miko having shot over 80% of the films of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution that exist in the world today click on the websites bellow and read for yourself.

http://groups.google.com.vc/group/alt.obituaries/browse_thread/thread/0d141dcf05638248/f4ac6a71e25577fe

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1421085/

http://www.budapesttimes.hu/content/view/7508/205/

http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2008/05/11/Noted_cameraman_Miko_dead_at_87/UPI-95011210523734/

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2008/05/14/joseph_miko_filmed_hungarian_revolution/

Awards received by Joseph S. Miko for filming the Hungarian Revolution: Hungarian Government Award of Excellence in Achievement in filming the 1956 Hungarian Revolution Hero of Freedom Award by the Hungarian Government for filming the 1956 Hungarian Revolution Hungarian Film Institute Letter of "Acceptance and Thankful Acknowledgement" for the films of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.32.39.108 (talk) 20:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing you have posted supports your claims. Please do not attempt to re-post the material without a citation that positively and directly supports the claims you are making.  Please see WP:original research. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 03:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Ed Fitzgerald - Your response makes it clear why so many college professors do not accept Wikipedia as legitimate source for research. I will be in touch!