User talk:Smirkybec/Archives/2020/October

DYK for Geraldine Plunkett Dillon
Template:Did you know nominations/Geraldine Plunkett Dillon

Please be advised that I nominated your new article for DYK. Feel free to edit the nomination as you wish. — Maile (talk) 00:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, doesn't look like she will make the grade, unfortunately! Smirkybec (talk) 10:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Kathleen Napoli McKenna
Fine meaty article here. Great work. Aineireland (talk) 23:41, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Most of the women left on my list either have very long entries in the DIB or I can't find much about them outside of the DIB. With the nights growing longer it's easier to tackle the longer ones. Some will be a slog though! Smirkybec (talk) 00:33, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Monopoly
Hi, I'll take this conversation on-wiki, if it's okay. The original UK project page is User:Ritchie333/Monopoly, and was inspired by Tim Moore's 2003 book Do Not Pass Go, which was a basic travelogue around the various locations on a London Monopoly board with facts and figures. I think my favourite is the rather bizarre death of Frantisek Kotzwara in Vine Street. This was backed up by my two "go-to" sources for London, The London Encyclopedia and The Survey of London, which I've used on more articles than I can remember, and Alan Jackson's London's Termini for the stations. For some unknown reason, I awarded myself bonus points for name-dropping Oscar Wilde, who seemed to get around London quite a bit. Whole project took about 2 years and covered 26 GAs and an FL.

For an Irish version, I'm not sure what the equivalent sources are. The obvious prime candidate is The Encyclopedia of Dublin by Douglas Bennett. There's no preview on Google Books, so I've no idea what it's like. The only other Irish editor I can remember off the top of my head is ; I'm not sure how well-versed he is with the history of Dublin streets, but AFAIK he's been chiefly responsible for more than a few architecture articles, so we can but ask. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  11:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It could be an good spur to encourage the improvement or work on some of the places mentioned on the Irish Monopoly board (the one fixed in my mind is the original 1972 board) but that could be a jumping off point. I took a few pictures for a number of the streets in Dublin that were missing photos a few years ago (including Nassau Street, Dublin), and I would really like to revisit and improve those articles as well. I have a few books on Dublin built history, including Stones of Dublin: A History of Dublin in Ten Buildings and A Portrait of Dublin in Maps: History, Geography, People, Society. In my day job with Wikimedia Community Ireland I'm always looking for new ways to frame content on Wikipedia as well as encouraging ways that new or less experienced editors could find their "niche" on here, and I just thought that looking at places through something as accessible as Monopoly could be a fun experiment! The fact that the Irish board still has a couple of red links, as well as some articles already tagged as needing some work seems to point at a bit of work to do like Kimmage, Store Street and Ailesbury Road. I might see what the folks on WikiProject Ireland think too :)
 * And always good to meet another fellow Irish editor with cats featured on their user page! Smirkybec (talk) 11:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Well I would go for it. If you want me to create the board template, I can do that. Actually, that'll give me a basic idea of what's involved. The only thing I'd say is that for the London one I did about 95% of the work and while I welcomed people to help if they wanted, they were generally content to let me get on with the bulk of the writing. However, that might simply reflect who I am, being the sort of chap who just dives in and does stuff without wanting to delegate if possible. For me personally, the obvious different between doing a London project and a Dublin one is that I've lived in or near London for my entire life, whereas I've visited Dublin precisely once (although I did have a nice afternoon looking at the tax inspection museum at Dublin Castle and having a wander down the riverside) so there'll be a big learning curve for knowing the basics. In terms of Irish articles full stop, as far as I can tell I improved Phil Lynott to GA and wrote much of Maurice Gaffney and Senator George Mitchell Peace Bridge. But I'm quite happy to do some more if I can.
 * And all great editors love cats. It's a known fact. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  12:10, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh I know that feeling as well, one of the reasons I tend to just plough on with lists and content (like the List of nature reserves in the Republic of Ireland) but I like to leave the metaphorical door open for other people to join in as well if they want :) Heading to the Revenue Museum is a niche occupation for any visitor! That's a rare place for a one-time visitor to have seen! There is a template to start off with here: List of licensed and localized editions of Monopoly: Europe and should give you an idea of the places. On the 1972 board, there are three streets from Cork and Shannon Airport, so it's not exclusively Dublin but not far off! And you know where to find me now, if there are any Irish resources that you think I might be able to help out with, I have an eclectic collection of books myself and access to a university library as well.
 * Very happy to find a new userbox to add to my collection :) Smirkybec (talk) 12:58, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Right, I've put a template up at User:Ritchie333/Irish Monopoly - I could have put it at User:Smirkybec/Monopoly because I think you're far more knowledgeable about Dublin streets and architecture than I'll ever be, but I think it's nice to ask an editor first before you dump stuff in their userspace ;-) I think what I've got is more correct than the existing list. Specifically I think "Earl Street" is North Earl Street as it connects to both Talbot Street and O'Connell Street and serves a similar function of retail and shopping, while "George's Street" is South Great George's Street, which again is near to the other two streets in the group. That leaves us with two streets in the light blue group with no articles at all :-(
 * As you can see, there's a heck of a lot of work to do. The most obvious first candidate for a GA would probably be O'Connell Street based on its historical importance and general importance today; it's currently assessed at B-class, but the article is almost completely unsourced, so that would be the first thing to tackle. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  13:08, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * This is fantastic! Yes, you're correct on those two street, South Earl Street and North Great George's Street are not "main" streets in the way their Northern and Southern counterparts are. Wow, I had never looked at review of O'Connell Street, and I definitely agree. I noticed that was doing a bit of an overhaul of the to do lists etc on WikiProject Ireland, so it could be that O'Connell Street would make sense as a new priority? And could feed into the long-standing goal of getting the article on Dublin to featured status. I'm going to post about this on the WikiProject Ireland talk page now, to let people know and see if anyone would like to help out. (you'll be glad to hear that my cat Pippin was "helping" me write this post!) Smirkybec (talk) 13:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I've made a start on clearing up O'Connell Street, putting sources in and factually checking stuff. I've also ordered a copy of The Encyclopedia of Dublin which hopefully will be able to supply most of the details. By the time I've done a bit more, I should have some sort of idea of how to tackle the rest of them. It seems a lot of sources are required, things like Hotel Metropole, Dublin (a major city landmark for almost 100 years) don't even verify the basic dates. Is there an Irish equivalent of Grade I + II listing; it means that equivalent British articles like Regent Palace Hotel at least have some verifiable content from the National Heritage List for England entry.
 * Sadly Suede (memorably pictured trampling over my Nord Electro keyboard ten years ago) died in 2013 at the ripe old age of 19 and a half, which is not a bad innings ... I'd love to get another cat at some point, but I don't have a garden for them to go in. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  22:15, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Wow, straight off the blocks, that's great! I dug out a few books last night, so will be wading in as well. In Ireland we often referred to buildings colloquially as "listed" but the official terminology is a bit different. In general for structures from 1700 onward, they are catalogued by the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage, that will have an entry for the structure on their website www.buildingsofireland.com, but there would be some details of Records of Protected Structures published by local authorities as well (Balnagowan House would be an example of that). Seeing as the Metropole is gone, it won't be included by the NIAH, but I have some books relating to the Rising and have encountered some in the past about the rebuilding of O'Connell Street that would mention it too.
 * Suede was gorgeous. We lost one of ours, Star, at almost 19 earlier this year. It is a grand old age for a cat to get to! We have three indoor kitties, but I have plans on making some of the outside space safe for them in the future :) Smirkybec (talk) 11:01, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * given your interest in London, my biography of Myra Kathleen Hughes today might be of some interest? I'd never heard of her series Vanishing London, might be up your street? Smirkybec (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I've had a look, but I don't have any books mentioning here, a search for sources has turned up the four you've already got, or otherwise a bunch of false positives for a book of the same name by Paul Joseph :-/ <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  08:22, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I think she is quite obscure, tends to happen to women, especially those who die at a younger age. You never know, you might stumble across her in the future - or she might get a bit of extra attention now that she has been surfaced a bit by Trinity etc. I know some people in the NGI print department that I could ask about her now that I think about it. Her work seems to appear regularly enough in private auctions, so might be that the majority of her work is still in private hands. I was born in Wexford, so that's why she piqued my interest! I couldn't find much on her father, but he looks to have been relatively important in his own right. Anyway, interesting historical cul-de-sac - for the moment! Smirkybec (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi Smirky, this is your best bet as a source. I have the Cork version, published in April this year, and it is worth its weight in gold. ps, their is a cat owning Irish wiki editors cabal that is quite powerful. Haha, only joking (i'm deadly serious, but cant say outright, wait for a sign). Ceoil  (talk) 19:30, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I just had that book recommended to me on Twitter (I tagged a few art and architecture historians I know who I thought might steer me in the right direction), I'm going to order myself a copy this weekend! (and I will await the sign... shhhh...) Smirkybec (talk) 19:38, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You wont be disappointed, knowing the overall quality of the series. My to do list went through the roof after I bough the Cork edition, and now I cant sleep at night. Interesting project though, will keep an eye and help out where I can. ps, the password to the cabal noticeboard is An féidir liom dul go dtí An Leithreas. Also, we lost our tabby Carmel in June, who had come here from originally...Siberia of all places (long story). Its bever easy, but are hoping to get a brother or sister for An Cait fairly shortly. Ceoil  (talk) 19:44, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Snagged myself a secondhand copy - hopefully it will arrive quickly! Sleep is for the weak anyway ;) Indeed, those kitties leave indelible marks on us (some even draw blood), and it never gets easier. An Cait is a beauty. Smirkybec (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Sleep is for the weak anyway Yes, I remember telling myself that when my (now) eldest son was four days old and screaming his head off at 3am. Fortunately he's got better since. Apparently my copy of The Encyclopedia of Dublin should be delivered tomorrow or Wednesday, so I'll see what it's like then. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  08:22, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * My book should be arriving soon too, and I'm going to try and get some copies of the other recommended volumes from the library. I'm glad you son decided to give sleep a try in the end! Smirkybec (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * you were not kidding, this book The Buildings of Ireland: Dublin is THICK and DENSE! (I really want the one that on the rest of Leinster, so that I can work on my home county Carlow more too!) P.S. If you're a Corkonian, if you ever see some Drisheen, snap a photo ;) you're already making great headway on O'Connell Street, and I will take a look at it using some of my other books this evening. This will be my first time using the sfn citation mark-up, I'm usually a plain, inline citation kind of gal, so this will be a learning curve. As the days are drawing in, I have been tackling some of the longer, more complex biographies I have left on my 100wikidays list there so I think some heavy editing will keep me busy during this potential on-going winter lockdown. Smirkybec (talk) 12:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Smirkybec, the other thome that I always have in the car during day trips is Julian Cope's "The Megalithic European", also a sort-of guide book, if your into old stones and stuff. Also, think the Gerry Dillon article could be a DYK yet. I agree with the original review, but its easily sorted. The RTE interview is gripping, and I think should be used as a source. Ceoil  (talk) 19:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm gradually making progress on O'Connell Street. The Encyclopedia of Dublin has two pages on it, plus another column on the GPO, and various related areas, though I doesn't go into as much depth as our article - for example, it lists all the statues with types and dates, but not much else. I've gone through most of the article body now, copyediting it and adding sources wherever possible; the various tags are there because I believe sources ought to be found for the claims, and just need to go off and find them. Most of the "Regeneration" section ought to be citeable to various Dublin City Council reports, which are online. Anyway, I'm off out in a mo so if you want to have a crack at the article, go for it! <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  14:34, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Amy Curtis
!930-1930?

Kay McDowell
Career section 3rd paragraph. Should short week be shorter week? Aineireland (talk) 18:47, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Sheila Conroy
Another fine article. Have just alerted the Bantry Historical Society to its existence. Aineireland (talk) 22:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Alicia Le Fanu
I have removed first external link ( not your work). This is her aunt. I removed citation for burial place- not in ricorso. Apparently there has been much confusion between aunt and niece. I am wondering about Find a Grave. I am not familiar with how they establish things. Could it be based on the confusion between the two? Aineireland (talk)
 * Very possibly. I have downloaded another paper by that scholar, Anna Fitzer, from 2018 so we'll see if that illuminates us any further. Smirkybec (talk) 19:41, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No joy, but given she died in England, and all of her family predeceased her, it seems unlikely that she would end up back in Dublin to be buried. But then again, given that it was a notable Hugenot burial ground, I suppose it cannot be ruled out. I'm tempted to remove the sentence about her burial place from the article, but keep the external link, as it does point to the right person even if we don't know if the burial ground is correct. Smirkybec (talk) 20:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Geraldine Penrose Fitzgerald
There is a problem with a sentence about her third? novel. Leaving aside any copy problem, why the reference to the second novel? Aineireland (talk) 23:05, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the sentence about it from the DIB: "In 1875 Fitzgerald published Was she tamed?, which appeared simply as by 'the author of Only three weeks'". I think the point is that sometimes the book is not ascribed to her, as her name wasn't explicit on the book? Smirkybec (talk) 23:09, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Myra Kathleen Hughes
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

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Desmond Fitzgerald (Architect)
In career 2nd par. is it meant to be compromise? Aineireland (talk) 21:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Fixed :) Smirkybec (talk) 21:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

November edith-a-thons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:50, 28 October 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

John Roberts Talk Page
Would you be interested in checking out a discussion on the above Talk page? It arises from an editor EEng reverting an edit I made. I have no intention of making multiple contributions to the discussion, but I feel most normal people would be for inclusion in the quite understated way I did. I wonder is there a gender thing? Do men and women see things differently? I have asked Brownhaired Girl to have a look too.Aineireland (talk) 15:52, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Apologies I should have given you a link. Talk: John Roberts 2001:BB6:9524:A458:D138:4AB2:D326:8C6F (talk) 17:47, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not strong on biographies of living people, has it been resolved, or is it ongoing? Smirkybec (talk) 21:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ongoing  Aineireland (talk)
 * I can keep an eye on the talk page and see if there's a consensus (currently I see a split between including the removed paragraph or not). Failing that I can send "the management" round to to "rough him up a bit". <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  23:00, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * PS: If you want to ping people, you need to do something like   or  ; what you did is link to an article with that name. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  23:03, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ritchie333, but that was not actually me.     Aineireland (talk) 00:02, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes it was you . And inviting someone to a discussion while hinting at the position you want the invitee to take is not a good look (see WP:CANVASSING) nor is attempting to open an RfC on a question open only one day that hasn't immediately gone your way . <b style="color: red;">E</b><b style="color: blue;">Eng</b> 03:09, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Replying to EEng, I never heard of Ritchie333 until he addressed me on this page. Because Smirkybec is the Project Leader of Wikipedia Community Ireland, I think she may have communication methods unavailable to an ordinary editor with the result that a message she forwarded may have seemed to have come from me????? Aineireland (talk) 16:33, 28 October 2020 (UTC)  Aineireland (talk) 20:37, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't have any special channels! All the editing I do here is very much in my personal capacity as an editor. Ritchie333 was just showing you how you can ping other editors to a talk page (we have been chatting back and forth a bit, so he probably just noticed this when replying to a message from me). No extra communications have been forwarded or circulated beyond what is here. this was just a sincere request for some help, nothing more sinister than that. Smirkybec (talk) 20:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Good God, Smirkybec, "sinister" never crossed my mind, just some technical thing I wouldn't understand. It had occurred to me before when something odd seemed to happen in the editing of Louisa Coppin. I'm afraid I'm not very digital. Aineireland (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No one's suggesting anything sinister., this isn't about Ritchie. Your original message here was Would you be interested in checking out a discussion ... I feel most normal people would be for inclusion in the quite understated way I did. Hinting that you want people to take a particular position is canvassing, and it's a no-no, though not the worst thing in the world. But please be more neutral in future when inviting people into discussions. <b style="color: red;">E</b><b style="color: blue;">Eng</b> 17:22, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Madeleine O'Rourke
First woman to (land?, fly?) a microlight   Aineireland (talk) 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Both citations just say she was the first woman to fly a microlight in Ireland. Smirkybec (talk) 23:20, 28 October 2020 (UTC)