User talk:Smirkybec/Archives/2023/March

Women in Red March 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 12:55, 26 February 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Had a nice conversation with Smirkybec when I met her last year, including the thought-provoking quip, "People do admin work on Wikipedia when they can't think of anything to write about". Well, quite. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  14:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Makes it sound like I was throwing some serious shade on admin tasks! Not intentionally :D Smirkybec (talk) 15:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's throwing shade. And I think it may actually be more generalizable than that: "People do (whatever non-writing task) on WP when they can't think of anything to write about." Or simply don't really enjoy research and writing, period. When I'm writing, pretty much everything else gets ignored, with varying degrees of guilt. :D Valereee (talk) 15:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "pretty much everything else gets ignored, with varying degrees of guilt" - it me! I often find myself on Wikidata or Commons, usually working on categories if I don't have it in me to write. Tremendous sense of accomplishment in sorting even digital photographs! Smirkybec (talk) 15:38, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Audrey Whitty article
Hi again! Thanks for having a look, and addressing one concern; I did think that notability was not an issue for a sort of officer-of-state role, and I thought I identified the role clearly. But I do understand the need for more secondary and tertiary sources. I think the earlier parts of Dr Whitty's career will be manageable but I was quite shocked at the low coverage of her appointment and assumption of the National Library role. I only heard of this appointment, on a topic I would find interesting, when some IP changed the NLI article to reflect it, weeks after the subject started; weird. Now, I recall that you have museum world connections, so I did wonder if you might know something or somewhere to look. Perhaps you have even met the person? And photography, maybe someone took and could donate a picture from some event? Further, there was some well-intentioned CoI editing. It was reversed by an uninvolved editor, and the concern was noted, but any data we might show are already in the public domain and should not be used for anything secure anyway, and I think the coverage is pretty modest, but any inputs welcome. SeoR (talk) 17:18, 15 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was being a bit terse on that one but notability can not be disputed in this case! I have added in some detail regarding exhibitions and decisions Whitty was involved in, which goes some way to addressing primary sources. I'm also surprised at the lack of coverage of her appointment in the NLI - you'd expect RTE, IT or the Examiner to have run something about it!
 * I have met Audrey, I don't know her well, but I'm occasionally at an event with her, I'll try to get a photo. Smirkybec (talk) 21:03, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Wunderbar, thank you! And indeed, the Irish Times and Examiner do usually catch such things, and one of the Indo stable might do a people piece at some point, and RTE... - but nada. I don't know if you read a sharp piece by Fintan O'Toole ahead of the Sandra Collins appointment, but I wonder if the NLI has been down-prioritized a bit, a real shame if so. I've put the article up for DYK, by the by, as the basic premise of the career shift is interesting, let's see if it's accepted. SeoR (talk) 21:33, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Good work on the DYK. You'd think all three of the National institutions having women as directors would at least merit a bit of coverage? I didn't see the O'Toole piece, but I have a lot of time for Sandra, I don't think she got to realise the open initiatives she hoped to in the NLI. Smirkybec (talk) 21:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I would have liked to lever the fact about the three top NCIs (as an aside, there are officially more now, but I think the consensus is still that the NCI, NLI and NGI are the core public ones - the others are more specialised (IMMA, CBL Crawford), are performance venues (Abbey, NCH), less accessible (Archives), or are supporting agencies (Arts Council, Heritage Council)). But there is no cite for inclusion of this point, as basically no general source covered the appointment. I really hope some retrospective coverage - a profile in the Irish Times, say - will come, and make that point. Another experienced editor has trimmed the article a little, and added a second hook for DYK, and there is potential in the Albert Bender aspect too.
 * O'Toole's points included that the NLI was a Cinderella job, with basically no acquisitions budget and a salary too low to be fully attractive (it's still >90k euro, I think, but many professors get more with far less responsibility, and a significant %age of tech staff) - and that the 5-year term was inadequate, not least because it left the director stranded afterwards if they came in with energy mid-career. On the latter, I think 10 years would make more sense. And things got worse, with staff now doing stack runs just twice a day - maybe labour shortage or post-Covid absences - and the closure for years of the quaint coffee shop. But it's Ireland, we mutter to ourselves but will anyone actually complain!? Anyway, I do hope that some of the work Sandra Collins started, or inherited from her surprising-but-also-effective predecessor, goes on. There did seem to value in the outside perspective, with both, AFAIR, having time in industry too. At the same time I did hear that many NLI staff were unhappy at a third external appointment. Anyway, for now, a picture would be lovely. SeoR (talk) 12:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It is 5 years, like the NGI and NMI, but I think a reappointment is not a big deal which from what I hear is the case with the NMI. Time will tell! Smirkybec (talk) 15:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed, we shall see. Collins got the extension but then moved on, but there may have been other factors at work. On Whitty, I see WiR did ask for a photo via Twitter, but simply got pointed at an existing picture, which won't help without copyright releases, and if it was a regular photo professional, that would not come easily. As an aside, that DYK on Grafton Street where some small help was needed, I closed out today, meant to do it sooner but recent weeks were limited on Wikipedia time. It will be nice to get to another Dublin street or two this year. SeoR (talk) 00:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Was that picture requested by tweeting at the NLI? I didn't spot it.
 * Yes, at [. And the NLI apparently came back quickly, but just with a linked pro. photo (and you do not get Irish pro photographers to give up rights readily). Maybe they could be guided to simply have a member of staff take a nice photo and share it fully?
 * Another street or two would be great, I was thinking Dame Street would be a good contender? I noticed Ritchie333 has been working on Henry Street recently, so those could be a good pair (one northside, one southside!) Smirkybec (talk) 21:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, Dame Street would be a nice one, and I think I have refs in 2-3 books, plus much mention in materials on the WSC. And Henry Street (and its corridor) would be a great pairing. Sorry for late reply, sick a couple of days. SeoR (talk) 23:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Now, a point of information, as I'm not sure of the practice of the outward-facing institutional aspect of Wikipedia, not being a regular on Twitter. The DYK of Hodges Figgis is finally moving along, scheduled and all that. Do we normally, or sometimes, inform subjects of DYK and other Main Page noms, using the occasion to seek new materials for articles, and build WP visibility? Thanks, SeoR (talk) 23:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

If you want quick wins for DYK, I've just created College Street, Dublin. At first glance it might be difficult to expand a rather small street, but the buildings and statues seem to be covered in quite a few books, so I think between us we can expand it from its current 556 bytes of prose to the required 1500 before too long. Another one to think about, several Westin Hotels & Resorts hotels are notable, and the Dublin one on the College Street / Westmoreland Street corner certainly has several centuries of history contained in it, so that might be another one. I'm concerned there may be a bit of overlap between the two, as the main property on the street is the hotel. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  00:01, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @SeoR on DYK, I have occasionally made the subject/institution aware - it can depend on how active or the tone of the Twitter account. No harm in tagging them in though - I'd be happy to do that!
 * @Ritchie333 I don't think I even realised that was a street in it's own right! The Irish Yeast Co. building would probably have a decent amount about it, on the long running business that was there and then the high-profile sale. Doyle's also seems to give College Street as its address. And strictly speaking, the Trinity Luas stop is on College Street? There is the mention of the Moore statue in Ulysses: "They did right to put him up over a urinal – the meeting of the waters." Smirkybec (talk) 11:10, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks both; inspiring! @Smirkybec, that would be nice re. HF - it's due for the Main Page on 26th March, I believe. By the way, given all the improvement, I'm putting the Sarah Griffin article forward for DYK too; that work was interesting, and the fact that the third novel had a huge sale (given that many books sell in the 3-10k copy range, and a good sale for many paperbacks would be 20,000) and to an unusual market. I wonder would anyone have an image for the article, from a convention / spoken word event. I hope at least that Twitter settled - for a day it drove article reads from single digits to 600+. SeoR (talk) 17:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! Give me a ping on the 26th about HF, so I don't forget. Nice to see my photos still in use there :) Smirkybec (talk) 23:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @SeoR and on the national institutions, the Council of National Cultural Institutions might be the list we're interested in? Smirkybec (talk) 16:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, that looks like the redefined / expanded list.
 * Now, I’m closing the file on [Sarah Maria Griffin, pending DYK consideration. Did we ever hear further from the subject? If there’s still a connection open (I don’t see an e-mail address, only social media), do you think we could request a donation of a photo? If not, I will try to get a snap of the 200,000-copies-sold festival novel. SeoR (talk) 16:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've tweeted about the improved article and about a picture, and I'll let you know :) Smirkybec (talk) 16:26, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @SeoR just sent you an email as there may be a safeguarding issue here that you need to be aware of. Smirkybec (talk) 17:10, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for both. While everything was solidly referenced, parts perhaps overgrew, especially with contributions from the ether. I think the reduced article is still a good summary, and still much improved on the version about which there were questions originally. I hope all is well. SeoR (talk) 19:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

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I've reached out to MerrionStreet.ie about switching their Flickr and Youtube accounts to use Creative Commons licensing
Hi Rebecca, I'm just glancing over the Wikimedia Community Ireland mission statement (which states that an objective is "To encourage public and private galleries, libraries, archives and museums on the island of Ireland to make their holdings more broadly and freely available") and realise I have some bits of information that may be of interest to the group. Over the last number of years I've reached out individually to numerous groups in Ireland about placing their uploads under Creative Commons licenses, or if I can't them to blanket upload under CC, sometimes I'm able to get them to license individual images. Anyway, I'm actually in the process of doing that right now; A few weeks ago I reached out to MerrionStreet.ie and asking them if they would mind placing their Flickr account and Youtube account  under Creative Commons licensing. I had noticed a year or two ago that MerrionStreet's own website states that material emanating from the website is actually supposed to be under a PSI license (PSI = Public Sector Information), and the PSI license itself states that it's an equivalent to Creative Commons. The PSI license is already used by the House of the Oireachtas, and it uploads to Flickr under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

I've spoken to their social media person both by phone and e-mail, and I've been advised that placing their Flickr and Youtube content under Creative Commons is under genuine consideration. I'm hopeful that actually will do it, especially as I brought up that the House of the Oireachtas already does it, but if it doesn't, I'm hoping they give me a written explanation as to why, and I can forward that on you/Wikimedia Community Ireland if you'd like if that happens.

Complete sidebar: Do you have any idea why the National Library of Ireland watermarks all the content it uploads to its website, particularly photographs that are 100 years old and obviously in the public domain? It's quite weird particularly when NLI is an active uploader on Flickr itself and everything they upload they mark as Public Domain.

Regards, CeltBrowne (talk) 19:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello! Fantastic stuff - thanks for all you've been doing. Yes, more and more public sector material should be openly licenced, inline with departmental policy so thank you for pointing out when it should all line up properly. Fingers crossed this is successful for MerrionStreet.ie Feel free to CC us into any correspondence. In my day job, I'm happy to have meetings/discussions with anyone or walk them through what needs to be done or why. The catch all email is wikimediaireland[at]gmail.com
 * The NLI thing stems back to an old policy stating they reserve reproduction rights on their materials - obviously completely incompatible with public domain! I was disappointed to see this reaffirmed in the new website overhaul. I know that Sandra Collins wanted to open up collections, but I think this might have been one of the battles she did not win, sadly. The Flickr project is hand waved as a different kettle of fish, in my experience in dealing with them. I was very disappointed that I couldn't get the change the licence on the Gordon Brewster items on Flickr, as he is public domain now. Smirkybec (talk) 19:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Grafton Street
BorgQueen (talk) 12:02, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red April 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:53, 27 March 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging