User talk:SnarkyDragon/Archive 1

Do you edit on Wikishire?
One of your recent edits is almost identical to content on Wikishire. Rjjiii (talk) 02:22, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Or Co-Curate? Rjjiii  (talk) 02:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No I’ve never used it before SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:34, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Show me where? Im SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Here:
 * https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Skipness&oldid=1234644098&use_engine=0&use_links=0&turnitin=0&action=compare&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwikishire.co.uk%2Fwiki%2FSkipness
 * And here:
 * https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Mainsforth&oldid=1228526925&use_engine=0&use_links=0&turnitin=0&action=compare&url=https%3A%2F%2Fco-curate.ncl.ac.uk%2Fmainsforth%2F Rjjiii  (talk) 06:37, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That just comes up with a link to a website not actual content SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:40, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Which article are you referring to? SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Have seen it now - it’s just content that I’ve written (original content) which I now find out after it’s been reverted isn’t allowed. But it’s news to be that it’s at all similar to anything elsewhere. SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you mean by "it's news". Content copied directly from other sites into Wikipedia should be reverted though, per Copyright violations and Plagiarism. Rjjiii  (talk) 06:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * As far as I’m aware I havnt copied anything from elsewhere? SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:47, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn’t write the mainsforth article - look back at its history please - I made some minor edits but I didn’t write that text SnarkyDragon (talk) 06:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, you're right, disregard. I was looking the reverts you objected to on the teahouse. Those included removing some older content that I misread as something you had added. I'm going to strike my comments above in a moment. Feel free to archive this off your talk page, Rjjiii  (talk) 07:01, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to interact constructively with wiki but finding people are instant to criticise and very slow to be supportive and helpful - I don't understand this shoot now and ask questions later attitude - we are all unpaid and trying to do something productive. I don't know how to archive off my talk page. SnarkyDragon (talk) 07:05, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you want me to archive it? It's no big deal, Rjjiii  (talk) 07:07, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure but also please explain the process of archiving so I understand it too. SnarkyDragon (talk) 07:13, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * So talk pages and notice boards on Wikipedia work just like any other page. There's no mechanism that automatically pushes old discussions off of a talk page. It's possible but not common for a talk page to get so long that it won't load sometimes. "Archiving" means moving a discussion thread from the main talk page to an "/Archive" page. It'll still exist, but your talk page won't be clogged up with old discussions or people who have come here 100% out of confusion. Once you set archiving for your talk page, you can either click a button to manually scoot articles off the page, or just let a bot archive the old ones. It's a complicated solution for a simple problem, Rjjiii  (talk) 07:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I see - I've found the page on it
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page
 * Yes setting up archiving might be useful SnarkyDragon (talk) 07:24, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Skipness
I noticed these additions of yours to the article on Skipness. You have added a considerable amount of material that may be true but leaves readers with no way to verify that because you have cited no sources. To take just one example, you say It arguably provides some of the finest views of the unspoilt Kintyre coast and the Isle of Arran. Who said that? You? Perhaps you are quoting some published source (the only material that should be included in Wikipedia articles), but that's not clear. Please read some of the links in the Welcome message above, especially this bit and this important policy. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi Mike - thanks for flagging. I'm trying to contribute to Wikipedia but finding there seems to be an attitude of jumping upon contributors and adding barriers and criticism rather than guiding or helping. Even lately I've faced the attitude of mods being volunteers with no duty to help - what then the article writers who also aren't paid and do things in their own time? How to learn to edit Wikipedia but not be jumped upon straight away? There is an attitude there which worries me when I'm simply trying to contribute good quality information. Some facts are based on local knowledge and putting links to everything can then look like plugging a business which I wouldn't want to do because that's also at odds with Wiki. I like the aims of Wiki but not sure I see it in some of the way support is provided here. I also have outstanding issues with trying to create a new article but again being jumped upon rather than supported. SnarkyDragon (talk) 12:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * A couple of points. There are no "mods" here. The content of the encyclopaedia (as opposed to its Talk Pages) is determined by a consensus in which there is no hierarchy: most people contribute under a pseudonym and none of us can know whether we are discussing content with a world expert on the topic or a child of five and administrators have no more right to determine content than anyone else. That said, everyone is expected to abide by the well-developed policies and guidelines that have been built up now for over 20 years. One of these is that we don't allow original research, so your suggestion that you have added facts [that] are based on local knowledge will immediately raise the hackles of long-term editors and as a result you may feel jumped upon. By policy, all the facts mentioned in articles have to be backed up by reliable published sources, or those passages of text can be reverted (and are likely to be so quickly in the case of well-watched articles). Opinions, such as whether the Kintyre coast is unspoilt, have no place at all except as part of relevant quotations. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a travel guide. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * But then why not mention and support rather than jump upon and say things have no place? How does that encourage people to engage constructively? SnarkyDragon (talk) 13:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what we strive to do when we assist at the Teahouse, Help desk, or via the mentoring scheme. However, none of us is perfect and I suspect that your chosen username didn't help get things off to a good start as others responded to your questions! Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * How bizarre though if people fixate on user names? That isn’t suggesting a positive culture on wiki is it? I also did a quick look around toxicity within wiki and it does seem to be an issue which is really making me see wiki in a new and less favourable light. SnarkyDragon (talk) 13:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

I note that my skipness article has been reverted with no discussion, guidance, teahouse/help desk or mentoring and an admission that user names determine the way people are responded to. Seems that my article was deleted as retribution for calling out the toxicity on wiki. SnarkyDragon (talk) 19:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Skipness
Below is content you added, I removed. If you can provide references for each factual statement, do so. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tour guide.

Skipness has a village hall and the community holds regular events including dances and coffee mornings. They have an ongoing appeal for funds to maintain the village hall and a community social media presence. Skipness school still stands next to the village hall but it has not been in use for several years.

There are plenty of walks running from and through Skipness, and many shorter ones are located in the picturesque Skipness Estate. There is an 'old' or 'high road' between Cloanaig and Skipness. It is possible to do a longer beach walk along the coast from Skipness to Tarbert but this requires a good level of fitness and awareness of the rocky terrain and risk of falls as it involves some scrambling. There are the remains of ancient settlements in the hills above Skipness.

There is a nearby cafe run by the family who own Skipness Estate that serves fresh fish from the area, and beer brewed on Arran, the island which can be seen from Skipness. There is also a Skipness Smokehouse from which various produce can be purchased directly or by mail order online. There are various businesses on the road from Skipness to Carradale towards Cambeltown including an organic tannery and gin distillery. There are cottages available to rent in Skipness and in Port na Chrò (a small bay near the village). Many of the cottages have their own boats and sea fishing is permitted. Mackerel and Pollack can be caught from them as well as a whole host of other types of fish. Basking sharks and Dolphins can sometimes be seen in the Kilbrannan sound, the area of sea between Skipness and the island of Arran. The Kilbrannan Sound is an active area for shipping, and ferries, naval vessels, coastguard vessels and cable layers are all regularly seen there. From time to time the Waverley, the last ocean going paddle steamer, passes through the sound.

Although Skipness is a small village it has a recently opened shop (situated on the site next to the old shop and post office). The shop provides the essentials and some local produce. There are other communities nearby such as Carradale, Glenbarr, Tarbert and Campbeltown from which other items can be bought.

However, I stand by my opinion that all of this is your original content, based on your own observations, and thus has no part in the article. David notMD (talk) 20:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The unsourced content you added to the Skipness article was totally inappropriate for an encyclopaedia and was correctly removed. The addition would be OK in a travel guide but NOT here. Theroadislong (talk) 20:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yet you still removed the content which had links provided particularly relating to WW2 and have not addressed the point that as a supposed mentor you reverted the content rather than constructively working with me as one might expect of a mentor and teahouse host. SnarkyDragon (talk) 20:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Advice
Per Five pillars Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and all articles must strive for verifiable accuracy with citations based on reliable sources. Theroadislong (talk) 21:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This doesn't negate my point about complete lack of constructive dialogue from the person who reverted the content (simply a condescending tone from them solely justifying their action). It does say a lot that other people have been the ones to provide the context and additional information. It is just a shame that wiki doesn't seem a constructive place to try to contribute to. SnarkyDragon (talk) 21:28, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Please assume good faith, your repeated personal attacks on other editors will win you no friends here, everyone is trying to help you, but unless you read and understand some of the basic guidelines you are going to have a tough time. Theroadislong (talk) 21:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's hard to assume good faith when I see no evidence of it - my pictures were deleted, my content was deleted and the person who did it was simply condescending and didn't do anything to help and wasn't accountable - yet calls themself a mentor who can do what they want with my content provided in good faith. This person seems untouchable and it is other members of the community and not them who are offering support. I can't be expected to see wiki positively when I am not treated positively can I? I am simply responding to the way I have been treated. And it is important to recognise that as an unpaid person with literally no motive apart from wanting to contribute my own time and energy to make Wiki more accurate - I feel attacked. SnarkyDragon (talk) 21:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * For example the person who reverted my article did NOT do this:
 * Demonstrate good faith[edit source]
 * Shortcut
 * WP:DGF
 * In addition to assuming good faith, encourage others to assume good faith by demonstrating your own good faith. You can do this by articulating your honest motives and by making edits that show your willingness to compromise, interest in improving Wikipedia, adherence to policies and guidelines, belief in the veracity of your edits, avoidance of gaming the system, and other good-faith behavior. Showing good faith is not required, but it aids smooth and successful interactions with editors. SnarkyDragon (talk) 21:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Calling out non constructive behaviour towards me isn't a personal attack (saying such is gaslighting) I'm simply asking someone who calls themself a mentor to actually be constructive than simply and only state and justify their own position - that isn't accountable and it isn't mentorship. We have names for people who only justify their own position and don't discuss constrictively. SnarkyDragon (talk) 21:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk page archives
If you look up top, there is now a box with a link to User talk:SnarkyDragon/Archive 1. There's really no specific policy on archiving. Some people archive all discussions almost immediately. Some people just let the bot gradually move old discussions. Like you said, the overall help page is at Help:Archiving a talk page. For the documentation on how to tweak the bot's settings you'd go to User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis. To manually move discussions over to an archive, you can just cut and paste them. Or you can use this script that adds a button, but it's not that popular: User:Elli/OneClickArchiver. Rjjiii (talk) 07:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)