User talk:Snccvet

Snccvet, Regarding your contribution on the Black Liberators. That article is on a St. Louis group that ceased to exist in 1969. Your addition discussing arrests of members Sam Petty, Arthur Lee Petty, and Levi Valentine in New York in 1971, and referencing H. Rap Brown as the group's former "Minister of Justice," doesn't seem consonant with the published historical work on the group, which doesn't mention any of these as members of the St. Louis organization. Perhaps there was another group in another city also using this title? If so, a different article should be written about that group in order to distinguish it from the St. Louis group, which lasted for less than a year and did not start affiliates elsewhere. For detailed information on the St. Louis Black Liberators, one could consult Kenneth Jolly's book Black Liberation in the Midwest: The Struggle in St. Louis, Missouri, 1964–1970 (New York: Routledge, 2006). Thank you. Ropcat (talk) 10:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Snccvet, thanks for your response! You seem to have dug up some information that I was unaware of. I'll look at the article you cite when I have a chance; sounds like interesting material. Best wishes. Ropcat (talk) 19:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. I hope that it is helpful in setting out the facts of the era. I also appreciate your thoughtful approach. Snccvet

Jolson's blackface
There were problems I had with your changes which I undid to earlier version:

You wrote: "However, the black faced character that Jolson played in The Jazz Singer was from an imagined world of African Americans created almost entirely by Jews. "That is, Jews constructed an elaborate vision of American blackness, nearly irrespective of actual African Americans or African American Culture, and then attempted to embody that culture"."

There seems to be a number of topics you're discussing and the meaning gets lost somewhere. First of all, The Jazz Singer is a fictional movie, not a documentary. Everyone, including Jolson was acting "imagined" parts so your statement seems odd and overboard. Secondly, Jolson did not play the part of any black man in the movie. He only put on blackface for a few of the songs he performed to live audiences, like "Mammy," and those few songs were clearly black-jazz inspired. I don't think he was trying to "embody" "African American Culture" by singing songs in blackface - and it certainly wasn't an "elaborate vision." If he sang those songs without blackface, he might have been accused of stealing black music styles without giving credit - that's what happened to Paul Simon when after he did his Africa tour.

The final problem I had with this paragraph is that it appears you're either attacking or crediting Jews, not sure which, for presenting the "imagined" black culture to white audiences. But white people back then realized that black culture was more than singing "Mammy" and "Rock-a-bye Your Baby with a Dixie Melody." Jolson's songs were entertainment first, and outside of gospel music, it was the first time most whites ever heard this black-style of music called "jazz." Have you seen "The Jolson Story?" In it he gives totally clear credit to the inspirations and source of his own version of "jazz."

In any case, discussing the well-documented influences of Jews in the past and present entertainment industry, including movies, as a focal point should be included somewhere else. There are many books just on that topic. As for Jolson, he also performed songs as a Mexican, Russian, Frenchman, and white in his movies (watch them on the "Watch" link.)

The rest of your addition, (below) while probably accurate, should be put somewhere else. It seems to focus on Jews, plays, talkies, stage actors vs. movie actors, and composers. And concludes again with their being Jewish.

"It is a fundamental document of American Jewishness and remains confusing to this day. The writer of the original play, Day of Atonement, was Michael Raphaelson. The Jazz Singer was originally produced by the Shuster Brothers on Broadway, with Georgie Jessel in blackface. Three brothers, Jack, Harry and Sam Warner decided to create the motion picture, betting their movie studio on the new Vitaphone process and Al Jolson, after Eddie Cantor had turned down the role. Irving Berlin and others contributed tunes. And, of course, Jolson was the son of a Cantor. All of the major participants were eastern European Jewish immigrants.Jazz Age Jews, Michael Alexander, Princeton University Press, 2001." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwatcher1 (talk • contribs) 05:58, 28 March 2008 (UTC)