User talk:Soewinhan/Archive 2

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The Signpost: 21 November 2011
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Wikibreak
S WH  talk  14:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * I was thrilled to see you linking all those articles together. It looks great, and it's bringing some needed linkage to a neglected area of the encyclopedia. Good on ya. -- Khazar (talk) 04:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks!  S  WH  talk  04:58, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 November 2011

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Description
Hi. I changed Burmese-Siamese Wars because I have researched from the book. Our Wars with the Burmese: Thai-Burmese Conflict 1539-1767, ISBN 974-7534-58-4. It indicates that the Siam invasion split into two periods. I hope you understand. Thank you User:Pelaisse (talk) 12:25, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is best discussed at Talk:Burmese–Siamese wars. S  WH  talk  09:36, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Toungoo Empire map
Hi, thanks very much for creating the map. Here's my feedback.
 * Arakan: the border should be just above Thandwe. Hmannan only says Bayinnaung's forces occupied Thandwe.
 * Manipur's western border needs to be pulled back. It wasn't that big.
 * Koshanpye's bump should be reeled in. I'd follow Harvey's borders here.
 * The locations of Dagon and Pegu need to be shifted up a bit. See their locations on Wiki maps.

Also, it'd be great if you could use an increasingly lighter shade at the border areas. The borders in those days were not demarcated. The authority waned gradually as you went farther away from the center. Control of border regions between kingdoms invariably overlapped.

I have another request. When you get a chance, could you make a similar map for Restored Toungoo (Nyaungyan)? It should NOT include Arakan, Manipur, northernmost Chinese Shan states, Lan Xang, Siam and lower Tenasserim coast (south of Tavoy). But do include southern Chinese Shan states close to present-day Shan State. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 02:09, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your suggestions. I have amended the map. Although I would like to make an increasingly lighter shade at the border area, there are some technical limitations. Because I didn't make a distinction between the border lines and the coastal lines, coastal regions would inevitably become a lighter shade if I changed the border area. I'll try to do so in the future maps. For now, I just leave a note at the file page. I'll be drawing a similar map for Restored Toungoo by this weekends. Thanks.  S  WH  talk  11:59, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Were you able to make the change or is it not technically feasible? Also, please draw the Restored Toungoo map when you get a chance. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 02:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. When you get a chance, of course. As for the Sino-Burmese war casualties, I don't have access to Dai's paper either (although Thant Myint-U's write-up, which I've referenced, relies heavily on Dai's paper.) I thought 70,000 was from Dai per the citation, and it seemed reasonable enough (the third invasion's main army of 30,000 was nearly wiped out; another 20,000 in the fourth invasion. the second invasion force was also wiped out, that's another 20,000. You're already at 70,000.) But I'd rather reference a reliable source. Do you at least remember what Dai's paper quoted? Otherwise, it needs to be explained why 70,000 (or some other number) is a reasonable number as I explained it, or retract it altogether. Hybernator (talk) 02:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not technically feasible. The map looks ugly. That's why I didn't upload that version. I'll draw Restored Taungoo map tomorrow. Sorry for procrastination.   S  WH  talk  20:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for trying. Hybernator (talk) 15:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much for the Restored Toungoo map.
 * Borders: It's close enough but I wish it's possible to use increasingly lighter shades. E.g., You've followed the present-day border, more or less, for the Chinese border, which I suppose is a reasonable representation of the "line of control". But the reality was that there was a huge overlap across the line. Anaukpetlun and Thalun controlled some of Koshanpye (1622-1626 campaigns) on top of present-day Shan State and east of Bhamo (though not as extensive or deeper into Yunnan as did Bayinnaung); likewise, all the sawbwas in modern Kachin State and sawbwas in northern Shan State also paid dual tribute. But since it's not technically feasible, I guess we'll just have to provide an explanation on this.
 * A number of locations are off--some by a lot. Chiang Mai, Ava, Kyaukse, Nyangshwe, Pegu and Kale.
 * Also please add the cities of Nan and Chaing Saen in Lan Na. Nan was the easternmost possession. Chaing Saen (Kyaing Thin) was the capital of northern Lan Na. (The Burmese divided Lan Na into two.)


 * Again, thanks very much for the help. Regards, Hybernator (talk) 01:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. I'll fix the issues when I am free.  S  WH talk  19:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is possible to delete all the lines and just leave the green color shape. It is also possible to make increasingly lighter colors. But the map looks dirty/ugly with many colors for just one nation. Or I can make the green color increasingly transparent as it moves further away from the center. But I don't think it looks good since it would unnecessarily make some regions which were fully under Burmese hand transparent green color. I prefer using lighter green for the regions which paid dual tributes just like other maps on Wikipedia which use lighter green for disputed territories. The problem with this map is that I have no historical maps to refer to.   S  WH talk  09:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's good. If you can somehow make it work with lighter colors, it'll be great. (I'm working on one for Pagan Dynasty myself. But I'm not very talented with pix.) I don't know of a historical map for Restored Toungoo but Phayre (1883, pp. 191–192, 201) does name four of the ten annexed states by the Qing: Mogaung, Bhamo, Hsenwi and Kengtung. These were the closest ones inside the present-day Burmese border, so anything north of these inner states--i.e. northern Kachin State, north of Mogaung, Chinese Shan states, present-day Nujiang, Baoshan, Dehong, Lincang, Pu'er, Xishuangbanna--would also have been annexed. But Restored Toungoo's extent of control inside Yunnan even at its peak (Anaukpetlun's and Thalun's reigns) would have been minimal, and so the border should be closer than Bayinnaung's line shown in Harvey (1925). Hybernator (talk) 01:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

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