User talk:Sollog/Archive 1

1
This article was voted on for deletion. It was decided to keep the article. --Rlandmann 05:58, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Because of all the vandalism, personal attacks, and legal threats carried out on this page, I'm refactoring the discussion to contain only suggestions for improving the article in question (which is, after all, the purpose of this talk page). Anyone interested in what has gone before should consult the page history. --Rlandmann 12:21, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In order to keep discussions constructive, civil, and on topic, I'd like to remind everyone of the following policies, plus I have some proposals regarding how they might be enforced on this page: Thank you. --MarkSweep 19:40, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) Sign all comments with ~ .  Unsigned comments will be de-anonymized.
 * 2) Consider logging in if you have an account.  If you don't have one, create one. If you have more than one, pick one to use on this page and stick with it, i.e., don't be a sock puppeteer.  Posting without an account does not protect you or exempt you from the rules.  Posting from anonymizing proxies is not allowed.
 * 3) No name calling, no personal attacks.  Portions of comments containing personal attacks will be removed.
 * 4) No legal threats.  Portions of comments containing legal threats will be removed.
 * 5) Do not maliciously alter other people's comments, blank the page, etc.  This is considered vandalism and will be reverted.

"Son of light, light of God"
Article should explain that the name is an acronym... and should also mention that he was convicted of aggravated assault, reckless endangerment and DUI and claimed to be God while defending himself in the courtroom. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 18:01, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree, acronym and court case both merit mention. Apparently the court case was quite a sight at the time... A2Kafir 20:02, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Does that have anything to do with the sentence "Belief of TOH is that all life is part of God and therefore GOD"? I can't quite parse it, but if GOD stands for something that would help. (Kind of...) &mdash;tregoweth 00:44, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)


 * you people are a joke, as has been pointed out and erased, sollog is not an acronym of son of ... that's bs from altman a moron, that's why the morons running this bs resource keep linking to him and ignoring all the major media mentions of sollog, and that's why they keep erasing true sollog info like sollog doesn't mean son of whatever


 * BIASED and false remarks. Sollog's name is not son of light... Also, Sollog is well know for his prophecies, math theories and books, not for a bs court case that was over turned. How can someone be tried for a 1988 dui in 1996 when such minor crimes are under a 5 year statue of limitations, plus the skeptic author even admits the cop lied on the stand. Any links promoting that bs is nothing but an attempt to harass sollog and TOH members


 * SOLLOG does not mean Son of whatever, these posts are an insult to Sollog and all members of TOH.

DO NOT REFER TO SOLLOG AS ENNIS
You people are real ignorant. Sollog is Sollog that is his true name. Calling Sollog ennis is like calling Muhammad Ali by his slave name Clay. You people have no respect for the great leader and founder of TOH. So STOP CALLING SOLLOG by names that TOH MEMBERS consider to be offensive.

TOH Member S FL


 * Muhammad Ali isn't a sockpuppet, Ennis. Wyss 14:23, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm not ennis and I'm not sollog and I am offended that you try to imply I am Sollog and you call him ennis show you biased position. You need to be removed as a member of this site. You keep offending people over their religious beliefs.


 * In my opinion Ennis posts as a sockpuppet in order to further the illusion that he has followers. I don't think my posts violate wiki policy, but if I were to be suspended from wiki for my posts, or was asked to stop posting to this page, I certainly wouldn't return as a sockpuppet. Wyss 14:34, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

lam a proud member of TOH and l believe everyone should have Religious FREEDOM to pray and Worship whatever Religion they want too. But all we members ever see is lies about our Great leader SOLLOG who knows so much and just wants to help all the people of the world see the TRUTH. We are sick and tried of seeing these LIES spread. The American Goverment knows much more truth about SOLLOG than any of you people here. You'll Wake up some day and find it's too late to change when you finally see the TRUTH You will have doomed yourself and your family by not being honest and doing some research yourself. You have a few more years until the end my friends. (ToraH)
 * Comment There is a straight-forward explanation for why most (or all) of the posts by Sollog's followers seem to have the same pattern of syntax, grammar and punctuation errors: I suspect they're written by the same person, probably John Ennis, aka Sollog, which reinforces my opinion that he may have few if any serious "followers", that this article is truly vanity advertising and would be best reconsidered for deletion. Wyss 18:41, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * "A few more years until the end?" Care to specify how many?  It would make an interesting test of Ennis's powers of prophecy. --Carnildo 19:24, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement
OK, since we're keeping the page, anyone have any suggestions for improving it? --Rlandmann 06:05, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * YES if you want to show wiki is truly a neutral source then you need to keep out info that is defamatory and links to such info is wrong.

You need to concentrate on why Sollog is so popular on the net.

1. He allows his prophecies to be put into Usenet as soon as they are made, that means you don't have to pay him to see what he says about the future.

2. You need a complete bibliography of his 30+ books under his three pen names.

3. You don't need incorrect information about what his religious names means or doesn't mean.

4. Sollog is involved in several movies, so he needs a filmography as well

5. Sollog has several CD's so he needs a Music list as well

6. Sollog has about 9 or so major math theories, so they need to be listed.

7. A few links to the most famous prophecies would be a good idea

8. A few links to the major media references of him would be a good idea (city paper is not major media) such as the WP, der spiegel, register in uk and few others

9. A couple of links explaining his connection to Leo Phoenix

10. Links to info about TOH the religious movement he started

11. Links to his abstract symbolism art

The facts are Sollog has many fans and skeptics in usenet and on many web sites, he has many references in the media. His is known mostly for his prophecies, you don't see other seers or psychics allowing their stuff to be put into the public domain via usenet where it is recorded with time stamps to prove they either know details about future events or they don't. He has many many hits and some of the so-called misses are in fact simple allegorical hits. i.e. the 902 prophecy about the pope of satan's death, no where does he say john paul II, but skeptics say he did, fans point out anton lavey aka the pope of satan died that month etc.

Sollog is a brilliant mathematician and his finding of hidden 24 number deep number sequences within primes and fibonacci prove that. He did ratio align the inner planets in his PDF formula, he united the mythos of major religions in his creator formula.

You can find references in articles where judges call him the most brilliant man they have ever had in their court room, yet you allow people here to call him names and then threaten his fans with banishment.

Look at all the bs hoary and wyss said about Sollog fans and yet you threaten his fans with banishment.

I suggest you get a new mod to supervise the creation of a real neutral article on Sollog, since the people doing it so far are not neutral.

Allowing the same people that have been attacking him and his fans to create the page is a joke, get a new mod that is neutral and leave off stuff that will harass his fans.


 * That was contributed at 06:21, 10 Dec 2004 by 65.34.173.202. (Why not get a user ID?) I'll just take two points. First, Sollog is a brilliant mathematician and his finding of hidden 24 number deep number sequences within primes and fibonacci prove that. Uh-huh. Does any mathematician back that up? Secondly, You need a complete bibliography of his 30+ books under his three pen names. Does this mean that "Sollog" has pen-names? A pen-name of a pen-name seems absurd -- why not rename the article Ennis and list the pen-names there? In the meantime, bookfinder.com lists a total of, count 'em, 0 (no) books by "Sollog" or "Sol Adoni", which appear to be Ennis's fave names when he's in a writing mood. What are the criteria for "book" here? -- Hoary 06:37, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I own over 20 so shut up.


 * What are the criteria for "book" here? Let's say, for simplicity, anything that has a verifiable ISBN. --MarkSweep 08:00, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Not it's not. ISBN means nothing, it's an artificial number system and since Sollog's words are HOLY you don't number them.

Wikipedia aims to present information from a neutral point of view. This means that when there is more than one point of view, then we aim to present both of them. Altman seems to be the most outspoken of Sollog's detractors, and the general consensus here seems to be that links to his articles are worth including in the article. As to your other points:

1. Agreed that his usenet activities should be better described.

2. Could you please supply publication details on his 30+ books? As far as anyone here is able to tell, these are just vanity publications available in electronic format. Have any of them been in print? If so, who published them and when?

3. The "Son of Light, Light of God" moniker seems to be a fairly widespread interpretation of his name - so widespread that it probably needs to be commented on, even if to say that Sollog does not claim (or no longer claims) this to be the meaning of the name.

4. see 2. Who distributed the films?

5. see 2. Who distributed the CDs?

6. Wikipedia has a policy of not publishing original research. Have any of Sollog's math theories been published in a peer-reviewed publication? If so, please supply citations.

7. Wikipedia is not a link farm. However, I agree that some of the major prophecies should be detailed. What are Sollog's three most accurate prophecies?

8. Agreed that we could perhaps include a couple more links. Der Spiegel's material seems especially relevant.

9. Why?

10. Agreed - if there is any information on this movement available that has been written by third parties and not by Sollog or his close associates.

11. see 2. Has this art been published or exhibited?

Finally - If Sollog's fans are willing to adhere to the same standards of behaviour that are required of all members of this community, their contributions here will be welcomed. If they use their editing privileges to vandalise the encyclopedia, disrupt the project, or make personal attacks on or legal threats against other users, then those privileges will be taken away and they will be excluded from the community. It's really as simple as that. --Rlandmann 07:10, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Adoni Publishing distributes all Sollog material via their network of over 300 developed content sites. Haven't you heard you live in a new digital age? Adoni Publishing is one of the largest new media publishers in the world, they get millions of viewers each month across their large network of web sites. They publish full color facsimiles of rare ancient works such as Nostradamus and Shakespeare and have over 5000 titles in their catalog. They have several films and Music CD's as well.


 * Get some old copies of City Paper and you will see a dozen or so bookstores listed that carried the original sollog books in print. Any bookstore can order you an eBook CD of the Sollog titles, some are in print and most are in POD.


 * You can either download Adoni Films (three are related to Sollog) or you can order them on DVD or eMovie CD.


 * Alexa tracks over 50 Million web sites, you have to be top 10% in traffic to even get a ranking there. Adoni has put dozens of sites into the top 100K at Alexa, something no other publishing company has done. Any site with a 500K or so ranking at Alexa is in the top 1% of the net for traffic.


 * Anyway, from what I hear Wiki is about to be served with a lawsuit to remove any and all Sollog material.


 * So this page will be removed soon.


 * No point in fixing what will soon be removed.


 * Wiki has shown they can't be neutral on Sollog so wiki will be sued to remove all reference to Sollog.

NB: The last passage "Adoni Publishing distributes ... wiki will be sued to remove all reference to Sollog" was contributed by Sollog, i.e. User:65.34.173.202, at 02:29, 10 Dec 2004. --MarkSweep 07:37, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This saga is getting more and more exciting. Last time Ennis sued for a mere trillion dollars (or so we learned); this time, will it be a quadrillion, or a squillion gazillion? And hold on -- I thought that I was saying W'pedia needn't bother with Sollog, while his fans wanted as much publicity as possible. Meanwhile: we're told that Adoni Publishing distributes all Sollog material via their network of over 300 developed content sites.... Recall that Adoni is another moniker of Ennis, so this means that Ennis is publishing Ennis, so it's self-publishing. As for maths, without credible evidence of any significant mathematical breakthroughs by Ennis, I suggest changing "mathematician" to "self-described mathematician". -- Hoary 07:46, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Now that Sollog Ennis realizes he's been identified and can't vandalize or intimidate his way into having a vanity page and fortune telling ad of his very own on wiki, he wants all reference to himself removed... Wyss 07:49, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * You people look like fools. Let's see does Sollog own Adoni Publishing? Let's see Sollog Immanuel Adonai-Adoni aka Sol Adoni aka Founder of Adoni Publishing. Adoni Publishing was created to distribute Sollog's writing. They also publish several other authors, they also publish historical facsimiles from the Adoni Collection. They also publish over 300 content sites, they publish Books, Movies and Films. They also own several programs. Didn't you hear Sollog owned a very successful software company years ago that had the largest market share in their industry.


 * The copyright on Sollog.com and all Adoni sites says COPYRIGHT ADONI NET, this is public information. And you people act like you 'discovered' it. Funny how when Sollog's lawyers sue wiki the first thing they'll do is show this IP address does not belong to Sollog like all you liars are saying.


 * You need to look at various sollog forums, there's a huge class action coming against wiki and of course altman, about time AIS sued him for his slanders. Since wiki is quoting him as a source he will now be removed from the net as will wiki.


 * Just remove the page, if you don't wiki will be put out of business.

That minatory comment added circa 08:11, 10 Dec 2004 by 65.34.173.202. "Sollog"-fan, (i) the only thing I heard about Ennis's earlier business was that it involved porn; (ii) I hadn't been aware that Wiki was a business; (iii) my "divine" (not!) ability to predict the future tells me that your minutes of freedom to edit Wikipedia are numbered. (If these things aren't coordinated, look out Wikisource and the rest!) -- Hoary 08:18, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Look, John, we're clearly at an impasse. You keep pushing everyone's buttons, but that has not resulted in any progress, only in people pushing back.  At the very least, you'll probably have realized that you're outnumbered -- there are more people interested in keeping this site running and civil, plus you just won't have the time to keep up your comments at the current pace.  So let's assume you'll come clean about who you are and stop antagonizing people, stop the name-calling, and stop the legal threats; you don't need to say anything, we'll just notice in passing that you've stopped and that's that -- clean slate.  What everyone is really interested in is making this a better article.  Now you have certain views about what this might look like, but you have to accept that people here will not necessarily agree with everything.  How about continuing the dialog that User:Rlandmann started, regarding specific suggestions for improving the article? --MarkSweep 10:28, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Annual TOH Toy Drive
65.34.173.202 posted a link to a TOH activity here. --Carnildo 09:59, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

See http://www.sollog.com/toh/toys it's one of the many charitable things Sollog does through TOH you should have it on his main page

See how you biased people are removing positive stuff about Sollog

Post a link to the TOH Toy drive and don't remove it, is a legit thing to discuss
 * The above was posted by 65.34.173.202
 * Now that you're not advocating a particular course of activity with respect to that site, maybe the link can stay. This isn't an advertising venue. --Carnildo 10:08, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

OK, it "is a legit thing to discuss", so let's kick off a discussion. I took a look at that page. What it says is that "Each year TOH distributes Winter Solstice Toys to Children". There's no hint of what these toys are, where the children are, how they're distributed, etc. There's no solicitation of toys. Instead, Ennis wants your money (via PayPal, to sollog@sollog.com). (Incidentally, I'm surprised that such a major concern as Ennis's hasn't yet set up its own secure server for payments, but then of course "God" moves in mysterious ways.) In return for your donation of money, Ennis will send you such amazing things as "a 15 Minute phone reading by Sollog" (that's for 250 unspecified units, revealed in the hidden source [!] as US dollars). Mmm, are these donations tax deductible as charitable? If so, I wonder why the deductibility isn't mentioned; and if not, I wonder why not. Looks pretty feeble. Not notable. Oh, OK, notably unconvincing. -- Hoary 12:48, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * If wiki is so lame, I wonder why Ennis bothers to expend so much energy on a single talk page? Personally, I think the locked wiki article about him is still too PoV. Aside from the fortune-telling scam, about all that's left is a link to a freep article about this person's allegedly dodgy past, some commercial websites and lots of USENET spam. Since he and his fans appear to be one and the same, in my opinion the subject of this article is really nothing more than a bandwidth hog: Hardly notable. Ironically, I'd still vote to delete (and protect the article title from future vandalism). Wyss 13:07, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

1. Calling Sollog ennis is an insult to Toh members SO STOP IT. I'm not Sollog and I know many members of TOH and even more fans. I've given to TOH for many years. You show your ignorance about taxes, like native indians and the amish TOH members are Tax Exempt. By Biblical Law. TOH only follows Books of Moses. Anyway, TOH is a tax exempt religion. So the whole tax garbage does not pretain to TOH and members of TOH. So keep paying your 'voluntary' taxes in the USA. comment added at 14:27, 10 Dec 2004 by T-Mobile USA customer 208.54.95.129, who has made lots of other contributions to this page today


 * T-Mobile Man (or woman), I can make little sense of what you say other than that you don't want "Sollog"/Ennis to be called "ennis". The "tax garbage" I was referring to was the ability of people to claim charitable contributions as deductions from their taxable income. So anyway, what are the toys, where are the kids, what percentage of money sent to Mr Ennis goes to the toys for the kids? Can you present any other evidence that this is a real charity that does a significant amount of good in the world? Incidentally, while whether "TOH" members (their incomes?) are tax exempt according to their own interpretation of something in the Bible is of some trivia interest, I think readers of the article would be more interested to see how the IRS of the USA views this publishing empire. -- Hoary 14:51, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

TOH members ask that this page be removed
I am a member of TOH i.e. TEMPLE OF HAYAH

I find the links to City Paper offensive to me and any TOH member due to false information in the articles meant to defame Sollog and TOH members.

I find the way several Wikipedia mods/members have been harassng and defaming Sollog and all TOH members.

Since Wikipedia has proven they are not a neutral resource TOH MEMBERS demand all Sollog pages be removed ASAP.

TOH MEMBER S. Florida

208.54.95.129 talk contribs 09:02, 10 Dec 2004

Agreed, you guys need to get rid of that BS Altman article. He's a moron putting out disinfo about Sollog. Be fair and get rid of the biased material. Aries31 02:54, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * That would not be in the spirit of the Neutral point of view. We will, of course, have everything scrutinized that Altman claims, but bias is not in itself a reason for excluding material. We can always neutralize it by stating "Altman claims that so-and-so... Others counter that so-and-so..." or (preferably) refactoring everything into one more neutral statement. After all, if "biased material" were outright disallowed, most of the information coming from the Sollog website and people who openly claim to be his followers couldn't be put in either. There'd be no article left. JRM 03:15, 2004 Dec 11 (UTC)


 * If you would like this page to be removed, you should register as a wiki user and nominate the page for deletion. You can count on me for a Delete vote. Wyss 14:40, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Unlikely to happen. It was just voted on, and the consensus was to keep.  I'd probably vote to keep again. --MarkSweep 17:12, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know... I was just trying to point out that as usual, Ennis seems to have issues following wiki procedure. Wyss 20:46, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

REMOVE HOARY WYSS MARKSWEEP
I do not think hoary, wyss and marksweep can do a neutral page on Sollog and TOH.

Please remove them and all their comments.

They are harassing all pro-Sollog posters.

208.54.95.129 talk contribs 09:11, 10 Dec 2004

Civility, and the discussion
No matter how much people vandalize a page, no matter how ridiculous or invalid you think the topic is, no matter how lowly you think of people&mdash;practice what you preach by discussing here. Don't call people sockpuppets. Don't imply that any particular person editing under an IP is Sollog, or another IP, or Archimedes Plutonium for all I care. Don't take the "you are a vandal and I am not" approach by threatening people with tasty blocks and bans because you've seen them vandalize before and know they'll do it again. Do not lower your standards for administering these measures because you feel their behaviour warrants it. Don't ridicule the topic at every turn to make a nice inharmonious editing club of you and other regular Wikipedians.

Now, why am I saying this instead of properly deriding all the vandals? No, it's not because I'm a member of a Wikipedian Moral Majority who are comfortable in remaining as bland as they are unattached to any opinion. It's because these people can be of use in improving the article, even if just to get the far-out POV of Sollog followers straight from the horse's... mouth. (I must remind myself to practice what I preach as well, every now and again&mdash;no facile jokes.) This is Wikipedia on the edge. Maybe it'll go over the edge sometimes; we're all only human, after all. (No easy jokes here either...) We have the unique opportunity to give the world an NPOV article on a topic that, to my knowledge, has not had any neutral observers. Let's use it. At the very least, it could give us a better understanding of the social phenomena involved. If you don't care, I still do. Humor me.

With that out of the way, there are several things I would like to have cleared up. JRM 00:22, 2004 Dec 11 (UTC)
 * What, according to TOH members, does Sollog mean? Where does it come from? Is it "Sollog" or "SOLLOG", and why? Where did Altman get the expansion "Son of light, light of God" from? Did he make it up himself or was he misreading something?
 * I've tried to get some information from the website, but found it rather hard to navigate. What is "'Hayah" (is the apostrophe right)?
 * Does Sollog now or has Sollog ever claimed to be God, or a god? Have his followers?


 * You're right. How about we remove all comments that are not directly about the article and concentrate on specific issues?  See below for a proposal. --MarkSweep 01:12, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)  Added later: I'll continue this on a separate page. --MarkSweep 03:32, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)