User talk:Somersetpedia.paul

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Hello, Somersetpedia.paul, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
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Population Table
Since the Esk and Kilcoy Shires disappeared when they were amalgamated to form the Somerset region, is it essential to continue listing the population for both in the population table? I think it would make better sense to have just the one population figure for the whole of Somerset in a new table. Thanks. Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 06:39, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Somerset Region name
The local government area is referred to as the Somerset Region, just as Gympie Region, Sunshine Coast Region, Moreton Bay Region are named. Another user has already corrected your mistake. Please don't remove verified and cited information such as my recent addition of the area also being called the Brisbane Valley. Also what is the Somersetpedia project?- Shiftchange (talk) 14:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The Somersetpedia project is a new project supported by Wikimedia - please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/MonmouthpediA for more info. We are aiming to be the first Wikipedia LGA in Australia and have a team consisting of members of the community who have just started work on upgrading the Wikipedia information about Somerset. Wikimedia ran a training course for us last week-end, so we're still a bit green.


 * There is no such LGA as Somerset region - it is Somerset. This is an argument that goes back and forth, so we sought a ruling by the Somerset Regional Council.


 * In addition, although you cited the article quoting Mayor Graeme Lehmann, what he was saying is that we're trying to move away from the use of the term 'Brisbane Valley' when describing our region as it's misleading - the Brisbane Valley extends all the way into Brisbane and you would be amazed how many people think we're a suburb of Brisbane. You can of course insist on including it, but I'm saying we would prefer you didn't.


 * My editing of this page has only just started...we're aiming to make it much more comprehensive.Thanks. Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 14:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


 * It is great to see you getting involved. I have helped conduct a number of workshops in Queensland myself.  We can't take your word for it regarding the name.  Did you have a reliable source for your naming claim?  While you may not like the fact that some people refer to the area as Brisbane Valley it is a statement which is supported by a reference.  I never said that the river only runs though Somerset.  Inclusion or exclusion of material if challenged is determined by consensus. Instead of repeatedly reverting edits it is always better to start a discussion on the talk page and wait a few days for replies.  Not that you have done anything to indicate otherwise, please keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia not a guide or a promotional vehicle. - Shiftchange (talk) 15:23, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You have cited an article suggesting that Somerset is often incorrectly named "Brisbane Valley" - you need to read it more carefully. And the article is about names used by the tourism industry, not about the correct name or even about commonly used names. It would be more correct to say the Brisbane Valley runs through part of Somerset - saying that Somerset is called the Brisbane Valley is like saying that London is often called the Thames Valley.

As for Wikipedia being used as a promotional vehicle, it seems to me the Monmouthpedia project is effectively a promotional vehicle for both Monmouth and Wikipedia. It was a joint project between Wikimedia and made world-wide headlines as the "first Wikipedia town" - I read about it first in the Washington Post online.

The Somersetpedia project is similar in that we plan to make educational material about Somerset available to both residents and visitors alike. I'm sure our motives are entirely clear to the Wikimedia committee, yet nonetheless they are offering to part fund the project.

My aim in editing the rather bare-bones entry for Somerset to make it comparable with the entry for Ipswich: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich,_Queensland.

We have other community volunteers working on upgrading existing entries and adding new ones. They are doing it for all the right motives. Only a couple of the volunteers have anything to do with Tourism - I operate a computer business and my motive is love of the region. Other volunteers are from the local historical societies.

Now, I have said we (people who live in Somerset) find it irritating that our region is often incorrectly referred to as the Brisbane Valley. It's up to you whether you respect our wishes.

To quote a recent email from Mr Bob Bain, CEO of Somerset Regional Council: "Council has the Official title of ”Somerset Regional Council”. I would believe that “Somerset region“ would be the generic term for describing the area.”I.e. Pacific region.”

On the map of Queensland LGA's, our region is just plain Somerset: http://www.dlgp.qld.gov.au/local-government-directory/search-the-local-government-directory.html and http://www.oesr.qld.gov.au/products/maps/qld-lga-asgc-2011/qld-lga-asgc-2011-somerset.pdf. All the regions you cited above are named on the maps as just plain Gympie, Sunshine Coast and Moreton Bay, etc.

It seems relevant that in Wikipedia, Ipswich (Qld) is just plain Ipswich, not Ipswich City.

It's interesting that our local State and Federal pollies always refer to our region as "the Somerset". I'm not sure where that comes from...

So the naming issue is controversial. :)

Thanks.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

PS Can we agree that the use of the name Brisbane Valley is misleading or perhaps confusing - because that's what it's saying in the article you have cited?

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 00:07, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You're going to need to have a reliable source that states that the Brisbane Valley is an "often misleading" name as the source currently in the article states otherwise (ie that it is "commonly known"). Sorry that I have had to warn you about edit warring but the article dispute is currently getting out of control. Bidgee (talk) 00:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Good edit, Shiftchange - that fixes the problem nicely. Thanks. Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 03:36, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Please do not remove the alternative name Brisbane Valley as the cited source has verified the statement. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else doesn't like that name.  The threshold for inclusion is verification by a reliable source. - Shiftchange (talk) 05:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Shiftchange, you have no idea how much trouble the issue is causing because everyone thinks I'm the person who included that paragraph (not very Wikipedia savvy). They have pointed me to the Council minutes which make it clear there was only a discussion about the issue which was misrepresented in the newspaper article. They are upset by the inclusion of the reference to Somerset region being "commonly" referred to as Brisbane Valley because the discussion was misconstrued. As I'm sure you would agree, just because its published in a newspaper article doesn't make it true, and I would have thought seeking the truth is more important than insisting information has been verified just because it has been published. It's up to you. Thanks. Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 05:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no issue other than following our policy on verification. It is a fact that the area is called Brisbane Valley by some.  We have the Brisbane Valley Highway, Brisbane Valley railway line and the Brisbane Valley Rail Trail.  We care that a reliable source states that others commonly call it Brisbane Valley.  I am sure there are other sources which could be used to verify that and will search for and add them. Maybe the others you mention should read Verifiability to understand our policy. - Shiftchange (talk) 06:39, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I've supplied a link that proves the newspaper misreported what took place, so why would you insist on publishing something that's just plain wrong? So much for verification. Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 13:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You haven't proved the article is wrong. Searching the document you linked to I find one hit for the word valley referring to the Brisbane Valley Highway on page 4. On the same page it mentions that a discussion with Sean Choat about involvement with Brisbane Marketing took place.  Nowhere in the document that I can see, does it say that a newspaper misreported something Lehmann has started about a common name for the area. Unless The Queensland Times makes a retraction regarding this, it pasts the verification criteria. It is supported by the naming of transport infrastructure and at least one newspaper in the area.  I've also found a number of books, mainly historical, which place various towns in the Somerset Region also in the Brisbane Valley.  Furthermore I find the importance you give this a little odd, because it is clear beyond any doubt that some people call the area the Brisbane Valley.  It is important to understand that if that conflicts with current tourism branding, it doesn't matter to an encyclopedia at all. - Shiftchange (talk) 13:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The newspaper article made much more out of the minor discussion in a Council meeting than actually took place. For our project the issue has nothing to do with Tourism branding, that’s purely coincidental. It's all about accuracy.

Whilst it might have been true of the former Esk Shire, it’s simply incorrect to describe the new Somerset region as “the Brisbane Valley” since the Brisbane Valley only runs through part of the region and the Stanley river valley runs through the other part of the region – should the Somerset region be called “the Stanley valley” or perhaps the “Brisbane-Stanley valley region” on that basis?

Sure there are plenty of people who live in the Brisbane Valley as I do myself, but that is a sub-set of the Somerset region as a whole.

It seems odd that anyone would insist on including a claim that the Somerset region is “commonly known” as the Somerset region based on one newspaper article that incorrectly reported a minor discussion in a Council meeting when it's simply not a phrase that is in common usage.

I bet you can’t find a second reference that explicitly refers to the new Somerset region being “commonly known as the Brisbane Valley”.

It would be true to say that historically the region encompassing the former Esk Shire was often referred to as the Brisbane Valley in the early days of European settlement. Plenty of references to support that claim.

So “historically” rather than “commonly” would be more accurate. Thanks.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 22:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

June 2012
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an edit war with one or more editors&#32; according to your reverts at Somerset Region. Although repeatedly reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please try and find a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block. Thank you. Bidgee (talk) 00:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I am trying to reach a consensus - a careful reading of the article cited is actually saying it's a problem that the Somerset region is commonly, and in the view of the mayor, the councillors and the people who live in the region, misleadingly referred to as the Brisbane Valley in tourism brochures. As a committee member of the local chamber of commerce I have been a party to those discussions. It's a matter of our local sense of identity. Thanks.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 00:53, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you need a source to state that "the Somerset region is misleadingly referred as the Brisbane Valley" from a reliable source (as I've stated above this section). At this stage is it just an unsupported point of view. Bidgee (talk) 01:04, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Understood, I'll deal with it under a section on tourism. Thanks. Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 01:48, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Tasklist
Would you be interested in coordinating a list of tasks related to the Somerset Region which your team can work towards completing? Or do you think you have a good idea of what needs to be done and who will most probably do it. Examples of tasks include creating new articles, finding and inserting references, taking photos, completing areas of specific research, updating articles with 2011 census data, etc. - Shiftchange (talk) 05:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

We have a plan that we're coordinating with Wikimedia, but thanks anyway. :)

Our initial target is 50 articles.

Please feel welcome to offer constructive suggestions if you feel we're missing anything - most of the new articles we create will be referenced through the main article for Somerset. The work I've been doing today is just laying the foundation.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 06:23, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Photos
I'd like to replace the photo of Caboonbah Homestead with a photo of Bellevue Homestead as the Caboonbah Homestead burnt down in 2009. I'd also like to replace the the rather dark photo of Somerset Dam with a better quality photo of Wivenhoe Dam releasing water during 2010 prior to the 2011 floods. Anyone have a problem with that? Thanks.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 08:49, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

1842 Kilcoy massacre
Shiftchange - not sure what you mean by the word "faulted"? Do you mean "faltered"?

Other article for category
I was wondering if you could check the Category:Somerset Region to see if it contains any omissions? We need to make sure that every article which could reasonable be associated with the Somerset Region be included in the category by adding at the bottom of said articles. For example is Conondale National Park or D'Aguilar National Park within the government area boundaries? - Shiftchange (talk) 14:33, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Will do.

There's also a slight problem when searching for Somerset region - if you just search for Somerset, Somerste region isn't listed. Is this something that can be fixed?

Thanks.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 21:16, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Somerset Region has been added to the Somerset (disambiguation) page, which is linked from the top of the Somerset page. It should now be found by those searching for it that way. - Shiftchange (talk) 00:21, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

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Comments
Six months along I was curious as to how you are feeling about your contributions to Wikipedia. Has it been as you expected or has it been too challenging? Has interest from your local group waned? Are you happy you have been involved? Are there any highlights? What are your plans regarding future contributions and your local region? I hope you can take a few minutes to provide some feedback here or at my talk page, thanks. - Shiftchange (talk) 22:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Interest from the original community group has waned, withered actually. I'm planning to see if I can interest some new people in the community in the new year. In the meantime, I'm hoping that at least we can complete entries for all the major towns in Somerset - work is being undertaken on Esk and Kilcoy, but it's like pulling teeth. Disappointing, but I shall persevere.

Somersetpedia.paul (talk) 22:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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Brisbane meetup - Sunday 10 December 2017 at The Edge, State Library of Queensland
If you are in or near Brisbane, please join us on Sunday 10 December 2017 any time from noon to 4pm at The Edge at the State Library of Queensland. For more details and to sign up, please go to the meetup page. See you there! Kerry (talk) 21:56, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Brisbane meetup: Saturday 13 January 2018 at The Edge, State Library of Queensland
If you are in or near Brisbane, please join us on Saturday 13 January 2018 any time from noon to 4pm at The Edge at the State Library of Queensland. For more details and to sign up, please go to the meetup page. See you there! Kerry (talk) 05:45, 31 December 2017 (UTC)