User talk:SounderBruce/Archive 44

Reverting Start date and in articles
Wondering why you reverted all of the edits to Empire Builder railway stations that were updated to use the "Start date and age" template.

That template clearly states in its Usage section ... "This template is most often used in infoboxes in articles about buildings or organizations, identifying when they were started/founded/opened or dissolved/ended/closed."

It is being used in railway station articles all over the world, by a wide variety of editors. Its usage has been discussed with several Wikipedia editors with the net result being that it's useful to let our readers know how old a railway station is.

With all due respect, would you please consider reverting your reverts?

Thanks, Truthanado (talk) 18:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no consensus to add that template en masse to infoboxes, and frankly it just isn't needed for buildings in general despite what the Usage sections says. Note that the Usage section is not a guideline, merely a suggestion, and not enforceable across a wide swath of pages. The GA reviews and FACs for these station articles did not object to the absence of such a template, so others also don't see it as absolutely necessary.  Sounder Bruce  20:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I understand that it is not necessary, but doesn't it help our readers understand the information in the article when they are told (without having to do complicated math) how old a building (train station in particular) is? Truthanado (talk) 00:42, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Further, including the age of a building is analogous to including the age of a person in its article's infobox, which is universally done in every Wikipedia article about an individual. Truthanado (talk) 01:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:Footy
Hey. Hope you're good. Do you have a link or quote from the WikiProject Footy article regarding piping (or not) US club names? Not disputing, but I couldn't find it after a cursory search and I've been editing for over a decade and have aleays used, and seen other experienced users use, piped club names in articles. UncleTupelo1 (talk) 23:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I believe the most recent FOOTY discussion on the issue was Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 129, but I do know there were earlier discussions where some sort of consensus was reached. I've just been following what has been established in use around non-player MLS articles and am expanding it out to maintain some consistency.  Sounder Bruce  01:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "there were earlier discussions where some sort of consensus was reached" doesn't sound exactly like consensus was 100% reached? I'm not 100% convinced. Happy to edit to this standard when there was some official WP:Footy consensus. Appreciate your general updates though. UncleTupelo1 (talk) 20:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of South Bellevue station
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article South Bellevue station you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Grk1011 -- Grk1011 (talk) 15:40, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Swift Orange Line
Hello! Your submission of Swift Orange Line at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:44, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh, and a second QPQ review is needed these days, apparently Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:44, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of South Bellevue station
The article South Bellevue station you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:South Bellevue station and Talk:South Bellevue station/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Grk1011 -- Grk1011 (talk) 14:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of South Bellevue station
The article South Bellevue station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:South Bellevue station for comments about the article, and Talk:South Bellevue station/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Grk1011 -- Grk1011 (talk) 15:21, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for U.S. Route 101
—Ganesha811 (talk) 00:03, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for List of Seattle SuperSonics seasons
Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for 2024 Charlotte FC season
—Ganesha811 (talk) 12:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Pasco School District (Washington)
—Ganesha811 (talk) 12:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for List of Seattle Storm seasons
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

WikiCup 2024 April newsletter
We are approaching the end of the 2024 WikiCup's second round, with a little over two weeks remaining. Currently, contestants must score at least 105 points to progress to the third round.

Our current top scorers are as follows:


 * with 642 points, mostly from 11 GAs about radio and television;
 * with 530 points, mostly from two FAs (Well he would, wouldn't he? and Cora Agnes Benneson) and three GAs;
 * with 523 points, mostly from 11 GAs about coinage and history;
 * with 497 points, mostly from a FA about the 2020 season of the soccer club Seattle Sounders FC and two GAs;
 * with 410 points, mostly from a FA about the drink Capri-Sun and three GAs;
 * with 330 points, mostly from a FA about the English botanist Anna Blackburne and a GA.

Competitors may submit work for the second round until the end of 28 April, and the third round starts 1 May. Remember that only competitors with the top 32 scores will make it through to the third round. If you are concerned that your nomination will not receive the necessary reviews, and you hope to get it promoted before the end of the round, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. Please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAN, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs. As a reminder, competitors are strictly prohibited from gaming Wikipedia policies or processes to receive more points.

If you would like to learn more about rules and scoring for the 2024 WikiCup, please read WikiCup/Scoring. Further questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges (,, and ) are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:06, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Swift Orange Line
—Kusma (talk) 00:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Seal of Washington
Hey I saw you reverted my edit for Copyvio. If you think there is some copyright violation I’d be happy to hear it, but I didn’t add any new images to Wikipedia, these are all just from other articles where they are prominently featured. If you click on any of the links in the captions of the seal, you should see the seal in the pop up window. Eternal Blue Sky (talk) 05:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Several of the images were tagged with a WP:NFUR. Those cannot be used outside of their designated articles without a very strong rationale; a gallery is not an appropriate use for them, nor is it needed for this article.  Sounder Bruce  05:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Can you tell me which specific images were tagged? If they are non-free use, I feel whatever rationale was used to justify their original placement would similarly apply here, as it is still illustrative of the topic of the article, Washington State seals. My usage here was based on a similar section in the California Seal page. Thanks! Eternal Blue Sky (talk) 05:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The ones that are uploaded locally are probably non-free; California is a different situation because of their open government licensing that releases all materials into the public domain, which is not the case for Washington. Please do not attempt to re-add copyrighted material in this manner.  Sounder Bruce  05:42, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * But what basis do you have to claim these images are non-free? From what I can tell none of them have a rationale on their original page. Also, I’m honestly asking because I don’t know, could you tell me where you got the idea about open government licensing from? I can’t find anything on it easily online and I’d like to be able to understand the distinction between Washington and California.
 * Even if we accept that the images are non-free though, I’m not sure if this has any bearing on whether they should be posted or not. The fact that the California page has government seals in it, and the Washington seal page already includes the territorial seal and the seal of the lieutenant governor, indicates that government seals are part of the subject of the article. Therefore this should fall under “It is not replaceable with an uncopyrighted or freely copyrighted image of comparable educational value”, right? Eternal Blue Sky (talk) 05:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * See Copyright status of works by subnational governments of the United States and more specifically the Harvard Library guide. The guidelines for the use of non-free material are strict and taken seriously for good reason. Besides all of this, the use of galleries is generally deprecated and they should not be added without accompanying prose and a strong justification, which this situation does not have.  Sounder Bruce  18:22, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * First off, the links were genuinely interesting reads, but there only seems to have been information on the disclosure of government records, not the copyrights on government seals. Is there some kind of available precedent or law in this regard? I also made sure to compare the Washington and California sections to see if I could notice any differences pertaining to this subject, and was unable to find any though its possible I missed something.
 * The only thing I can find regarding Washington policy on seals is the statues governing the use of the state seal, which explicitly state that the rules surrounding it does not mean they restrict news organizations or political cartoons when the seal is relevant. In addition as far as Wikipedia precedent goes, could you explain to me how we know that the Lieutenant Governor's seal (which was already on the page) is free for use?
 * Finally, I understand why the use of galleries is generally deprecated but in this circumstance it does not seem to be in contradiction with any of the guidelines surrounding gallery use, and again the use of an identically styled gallery in the California page seems to indicate that this kind of gallery is generally allowed. If you would like me to write some accompanying prose or justification, I would be alright with that. Thank you! Eternal Blue Sky (talk) 19:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Editor of the Week
User:Hey man im josh submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:
 * I nominate SounderBruce to be Editor of the Week for their continuous and impressive effort in improving and creating articles related to Washington state. Some of their best and most recent contributions include 2020 Seattle Sounders FC season,  List of Seattle Mariners seasons, and  MLS Cup 2019. In addition to having nearly 200 good articles, which is the 16th most of any editor, they have over 240 DYKs, 20 featured articles, and 11 featured lists, a very large portion of which are related to Washington state or entities within the state. Their quality contributions are just fantastic and the content work that SounderBruce does is impressive, needed, and valuable. Always a pleasant editor to interact with. This nomination was seconded by User:Novem Linguae, User:Eddie891 and User:Generalissima.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

Thanks again for your efforts! Buster Seven   Talk  (UTC) 13:40, 26 April 2024 (UTC)


 * --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 13:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this honor! And thanks for the nomination.  Sounder  Bruce  20:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank YOU for everything that you do! Hey man im josh (talk) 20:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Sounder
Thanks for the information on that revert. It did change accessdate to access-date and last1/first 1 to last/first so it did place current citation fields on older refs but I get it. Red Director (talk) 11:41, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

WikiCup 2024 May newsletter
The second round of the 2024 WikiCup ended on 28 April. This round was particularly competitive: each of the 32 contestants who advanced to Round 3 scored at least 141 points. This is the highest number of points required to advance to Round 3 since 2014.

The following scorers in Round 2 all scored more than 500 points:
 * with 707 points, mostly from 45 good article nomination reviews and 12 good articless about radio and television;
 * with 600 points, mostly from 12 good articles and 12 did you know nominations about coinage and history;
 * with 552 points, mostly from a featured article about the 2020 Seattle Sounders FC season, three featured lists, and two good articles;
 * with 548 points, mostly from a featured article about the snooker player John Pulman, two featured lists, and one good article;
 * with 530 points, mostly from two featured articles (Well he would, wouldn't he? and Cora Agnes Benneson) and three good articles.

The full scores for Round 2 can be seen here. So far this year, competitors have gotten 18 featured articles, 22 featured lists, and 186 good articles, 76 in the news credits and at least 200 did you know credits. They have conducted 165 featured article reviews, as well as 399 good article reviews and peer reviews, and have added 21 articles to featured topics and good topics.

Remember that any content promoted after 28 April but before the start of Round 3 can be claimed during Round 3, which starts on 1 May at 00:00 (UTC). Invitations for collaborative writing efforts or any other discussion of potentially interesting work is always welcome on the WikiCup talk page. Remember, if two or more WikiCup competitors have done significant work on an article, all can claim points. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews Needed.

If you would like to learn more about rules and scoring for the 2024 WikiCup, please see this page. Further questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges (,, and ) are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:KCTS logo.svg
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Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

 * You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. 

Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 23:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

reversion of birth and death years
Hello. I just saw you reverted the basic addition of birth and death years to the notable residents list of Bremerton, WA due to "cluttering". I'm just curious why it is cluttering on this page but not on, as examples, the Oxford (UK) page, or that of Bexleyheath (UK), Marseille (Fr), Dusseldorf (Ger), which both list birth and death years next to the name. Is this primarily a non-US style of entries and is it that bad for the page in question? I just always like to see a person's lifespan next to their name. Thank you for your time and sorry for any inconvenience. Lime green k (talk) 07:34, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The lists of notable people should be kept as brief as possible to prevent it from turning into a directory. Most U.S. city articles do not include the birth and death years of people listed, especially in GAs and FAs.  Sounder Bruce  18:28, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the follow-up! Take care and be well. Lime green k (talk) 04:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

CS1 error on Bothell, Washington
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Bothell, Washington, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20SounderBruce&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1223421255 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 01:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * A missing title error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bothell,_Washington&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1223421255%7CBothell,%20Washington%5D%5D Ask for help])

Citing census data
Hello,

I was wondering what the best way to cite census data is. I've never really done that before and I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction. Thanks! PersusjCP (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Generally, it's best to link directly to the Census profile or table rather than a search result; the link will be more stable and is easier for the Wayback Machine to pick up for archiving. Also worth mentioning that the profiles will add in data from the American Community Survey, which is an annual estimate that should be taken with a grain of salt but is otherwise good for rounding out a section.  Sounder Bruce  22:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Hawaii Route 137
Hi there! You reverted my edit on Hawaii Route 137 and cited WP:USRD/STDS, but were too busy to explain to me what I violated. That page does not say coordinates cannot be added to a roadway. And I did not arrive at Hawaii Route 137 with an agenda. AnomieBot sent me there, as it has for many roads. Please tell me what you object to so we can find a solution. You're very busy so I'll wait a bit and if you can't get back to me, I'll add the coordinates back. Thanks for caring about Wikipedia enough to make time for it! Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 20:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late response, I've had quite the busy weekend. The use of coordinates in highway infoboxes was previously a contentious issue but general consensus has been against them, especially in the U.S. articles. An RfC on the issue was done in 2012 and found no consensus on basically every proposal to include them; as linear features, the KML popout and interactive maps generally work in the same way without misleading readers.  Sounder Bruce  00:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I find the "no consensus" statement confusing. It doesn't say the consensus was against using them. It can be interpreted that people were indifferent to the issue.
 * I actually gave up reading Wikipedia documentation, for the most part. It's not that I don't care. I've just come across so many walls of text that have errors that make them confusing that I have to battle with myself to read them anymore. Just a few minutes ago at Template:More citations needed I found, "This template indicates that the article needs additional inline citations. This template should be used only for articles where there are some, but insufficient, inline citations to support the material currently in the article. Don't use this tag for articles that contain no unreferenced material, even if all the material is supported by a single citation." I guess I've given in to the Dark Side, lol. Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 00:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Generally, most editors don't really want to read the jumble of policies that have been piling up for years and years, so we just go by what seems to be tolerated in other, related articles. In any case, an undo does not necessarily mean that something is wrong but rather there's room to interpret and find a solution.  Sounder Bruce  00:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'd like that! I think coordinates are valuable because a person can see what the start of a road or a trailhead looks like before they get there, so they don't have to wander about looking for it. If you aren't too busy, what is your perspective? Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 02:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

TFA
Today's TFA, Felix M. Warburg House, was written by Vami_IV and Epicgenius, introduced: "This article is about another of the great houses that once lined Fifth Avenue in New York. Specifically, this is the mansion of Felix M. Warburg, a Jewish financier who ignored fears of anti-Semitic reprisal to his decided to build himself a big Gothic manor in the middle of New York City. Although the Warburgs no longer remain, their legacy does: the museum is now the home of the Jewish Museum (Manhattan) and the building largely survives as they left it. It's a beautiful building and I hope you will all enjoy it."! - in memory -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Today's story mentions a concert I loved to hear and a piece I loved to sing in choir, 150 years old OTD. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Replaceable non-free use File:Doug flag.svg
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DYK for List of Seattle Reign FC seasons
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:04, 21 June 2024 (UTC)