User talk:Sovereign Court

Welcome!
I've prepared a second draft of my Rex Cramphorn article, tailoring it with regard to the comments on the first which was rejected, but I can't find a way of submitting it. It's in my sandbox. Cheers - Sovereign Court


 * It's usually preferred that you modify the old draft instead of creating a separate second draft. Thus I've tidied up Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rex Roy Cramphorn and submitted it for another review. To submit a page for review, either use the "resubmit" button in the "submission declined" message box or add {{subst:submit}} to the very top of the page. Huon (talk) 00:54, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Sovereign Court, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful: Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
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July 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=566073157 your edit] to Jiang (surname) may have broken the syntax by modifying 3 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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 * ] surname. It originated during the 26th century BC.  It derived from the deity [Yujiang]  who was revered as the God of Water in [Ancient]  China. Yujiang's descendants were given the surname Jiang (疆).  During the Zhou Dynasty
 * the name "Jiang Duan" (强端) became the Jiang (疆). Before this, the surname had been [Fu (surname)]  (苻), indicating descent from "Fú Jiān" (苻堅).

Formatting at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rex Roy Cramphorn
Hello, there is a much easier and more stable way to do footnotes, so I've fixed the first three footnotes for you as an example. Please do likewise with the rest of the footnotes, as manually-numbered ("[1]") footnotes tend to go out-of-order over time as articles evolve, so the wiki-coded footnotes are far safer. There are instructions at WP:Footnotes as well if you need, or just note how I did the examples on your draft. MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:14, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Rex Roy Cramphorn (October 11)
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Your submission at AfC Rex Roy Cramphorn was accepted
 Rex Roy Cramphorn, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Northamerica1000(talk) 05:40, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
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Disambiguation link notification for December 6
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December 2013 modifications and additions to my original Rex Cramphorn submission.
My research and check of primary sources suggest that the rendering of the surname Cramphorne, alluded to in Rex Cramphorn's obituary notice and by subsequent biographers, was never used by his antecedents. Census, marriage, immigration and electoral roll indexes for his parents always gave the name as Cramphorn, as does the entry for Rex himself in the 1963 electoral roll. My theory is that Cramphorn, who had many gay friends, admirers and suitors, invented and used this variant spelling early in his career to help dispel any sexual image that his surname might suggest. So unless my theory can be contradicted, or primary sources can be found to justify Rex's "family affectation" claim, I shall reinstate my original "sometimes known by the variant Cramphorne" statement to the published entry.

Someone has added a list of Cramphorn's academic qualifications to my original article, a list I've seen published elsewhere. In a 1973 job application, Cramphorn mentioned completing a MA qualifying course but not proceeding at that time due to pressure of freelance directing work. I applied to the University of New South Wales, asking if Cramphorn ever completed his MA studies, but was told such information could not be disclosed. I therefore ask here what primary source can be cited for crediting Rex Cramphorn with an MA (though, goodness knows, he well deserved it!).

John Austin 19:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC) Sovereign Court


 * Three comments. Firstly, the article's talk page would be a much better place for this discussion than yours. Secondly, you should take a look at our policy on original research. When the Sydney Morning Herald reports that Cramphorn dropped the 'e' "after deciding that his family had gentrified the name", we cannot ignore that and instead say he himself had invented the variant spelling. Thirdly, when no reliable sources report on his MA, I don't think it's all that important a detail of his biography. Huon (talk) 21:24, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Grateful response to a prompt reply.
1. I'm not urging that my theory as to why Cramphorn sometimes gave his name as Cramphorne should be published. I'm stating here that all primary sources that I can find do not support the reason he is alleged to have given. I reckon that my original "sometimes known by the variant Cramphorne" statement satisfies best on all counts.

2. I'm not fussed about whether he completed his MA either, but I'm fussy about putting out stuff that hasn't been thoroughly checked.

3. Despite seeming grouchy, I really appreciate your feed back. Yes, I shall transfer most of this to the discussion page you mention.


 * Sorry, I misunderstood the MA question. The article currently cites the Sydney Morning Herald's obituary; that's reliable enough a source unless some other source explicitly disputes the MA. Huon (talk) 23:23, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Cramphorn or Cramphorne
Thanks again, Mr Huon.

I don't want to impose on you too much.

I'm happy for the MA stuff to be added to my original article, so won't query it further.

I'm still unhappy about the importing of stuff about Rex Cramphorn jettisoning a supposed "gentrification" of his surname. Yes, this is mentioned in the 1991 obituary and in biographical studies by Frank Van Straten and Associate Professor Ian Maxwell which I have acknowledged, but at the time they wrote the 1911 UK Census record showing Rex's father as Eric Roy Cramphorn was not available. Nowhere, as I outlined above, in records referring to Cramphorn's parents marrying,emigrating to Australia and their listing in subsequent electoral rolls and directories, is the name spelt "Cramphorne". Accordingly, I'm suggesting that it's at least an open question and by stating in my original article "sometimes known by the variant Cramphorne" I'm not going beyond established fact.

Unless my case seems unacceptable, I'd like to edit out the "family gentrification" stuff that others have inserted.

Cheers now

John Austin 00:12, 8 December 2013 (UTC) Sovereign Court

Rex Cramphorn and sometimes Rex Cramphorne.
Primary sources, not available when an obituary notice and various biographical works were published, throw doubt on the claim that Cramphorn discarded the spelling of this surname as “Cramphorne” when he discovered it was a family affectation. A rather curious entry in the UK 1911 Census, now available, shows Cramphorn’s father Eric living in Kent, England, with Eric’s grandmother and her unmarried daughter. Here, and in subsequent marriage records, immigration records and electoral rolls and directories, Cramphorn’s father never appears as “Cramphorne”, nor does Rex himself in electoral rolls and directories. I’m therefore acknowledging that the Cramphorn-Cramphorne explanation may not be quite as is reported in his obituary notice. Accordingly, I’m including in my Wikipedia article the statement “sometimes known by the variant Cramphorne”, which should satisfy on all counts, I believe.

Edit summaries
Hello, It is noticeable that very few of your edits include an edit summary. Filling in the edit summary field greatly helps your fellow contributors to understand why you have edited an article, without having to search through the changes. It would be most helpful if you would include an edit summary each time you edit.

You may already know this but in case you don't, you can prevent forgetting to leave an edit summary by setting up a permanent automatic reminder - just click on the Preferences tab at the top of this page, then click the Editing tab and tick the "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" box. Finally, click on 'Save' and you are set. I find it very handy. Cheers. Melbourne3163 (talk) 23:57, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

David Malouf on Cramphorn,
Thanks for the nudge, Melbourne3163. I'd like to acknowledge David Malouf, an authority on Rex Cramphorn, in the article rather than only in footnotes. John Austin 19:51, 10 December 2013 (UTC) Sovereign Court


 * I don't think that would be appropriate for its own sake. The article is about Cramphorn, not about his biographers. It already mentions Malouf in the "personal life" section; I wouldn't go farther than that. Huon (talk) 23:21, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Accepting advice re Malouf reference
Thanks again. I'll delete this change. John Austin 23:46, 10 December 2013 (UTC) Sovereign Court

Attaching a photo.
Perhaps Melbourne 3163 could help here. I have recently received a copy of a photo and the photographer's permission for attaching it to my Rex Cramphorn article. I have tried three or four times to work through the procedure for doing this, but without success. The photo has been submitted to Wikipedia (rex cramphorn nida 75) but it's so far unattached. I wish the caption to be "Rex Cramphorn, 1975. Photo: William Yang". I'm a Melbourne resident and am willing to travel to get help, if necessary. John Austin 21:29, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Rex Cramphorn, 1975.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Rex Cramphorn, 1975.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

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Attaching photo to my Rex Cramphorn article.
Is there more required for completing this process? I've uploaded a splendid photo of Rex Cramphorn (due for deletion 30/12/2013) and sent a copy of the e mail provided by the photographer, permitting its use, to permissions-en@wikimedia.org. John Austin 18:49, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * "Permission will be provided on request" clearly is not acceptable. But since you have already forwarded the permission, there's nothing you can do but wait. At worst, the image will be deleted after December 30 and undeleted once the volunteer response team has dealt with the permission. Huon (talk) 19:58, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

This is only a minor point but it isn't correct to refer to articles as 'my' article. Once published all articles became Wikipedia articles. See Ownership of articles. I'm not criticising, just pointing this policy out to you. Cheers. Melbourne3163 (talk) 21:29, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Should I try "attaching a photo" process all over again?
Thanks again, chaps, for your help. When you're over 80, it's a struggle to work through new procedures for the first time. Apparently, all will come right in the end, but would it help, after the Rex Cramphorn picture comes up for deletion (December 30th)if I attempted to link photo to article again? Since my first attempt,I have received written permission from the photographer which I could provide in the right place.

Yes, I know the article is not "mine", but I thought the term might help to identify what I've been referring to.

Cheers now! John Austin 22:32, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Further progress in attaching photo to Rex Cramphorn article.
The photo Rex Cramphorn, 1975, jpg, is making its way through the system, I hope, and will soon be attached to the Rex Cramphorn article. John Austin 21:42, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Photo of Rex Cramphorn successfully attached to Rex Cramphorn article.
I've finally succeeded in getting an excellent photo of Rex Cramphorn, provided by Mr William Yang, attached to the article about him which I compiled for Wikipedia. The captioning and positioning of the photo could be better, however. Can anyone, more skilled than I, improve on this? John Austin 10:27, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Rex Cramphorn Photo
I've finally succeeded in getting an excellent photo of Rex Cramphorn, provided by Mr William Yang, attached to the article about him which I compiled for Wikipedia. The captioning and positioning of the photo could be better, however. Can anyone, more skilled than I, improve on this? John Austin 10:27, 22 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, I have added an information box to the right of the article and enclosed the photo. I felt the smaller size didn't quite 'work' so used the larger image. If you prefer the small version, just let me know (you can leave a message on my talk page, or here, I am currently monitoring this page). Hope that helps. Cheers. Melbourne3163 (talk) 11:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind comments via email and I'm glad you are happy with the result. It is a wonderful photo, an example of where 'black & white' best highlights the subject's emotions, in my opinion. Well done on all your work on this article, Mr Cramphorn must have been an extraordinary man, and your improvements to his Wikipedia entry are excellent. Cheers. Melbourne3163 (talk) 05:42, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 3
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Rex Cramphorn, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page John Bell. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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I believe I have today added some information which should have fixed the problem with the reference to John Bell. Thanks for alerting me. John Austin 23:29, 11 September 2014 (UTC)