User talk:SpLoT/Floods

This is a centralized discussion for work on the December 2006 floods in Peninsular Malaysia, Singapore and Sumatra.

Naming
2006 Malay Peninsula floods definitely needs to be renamed. It's affected Singapore and Sumatra too, which are not part of the Malay Peninsula per Malay Peninsula. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 06:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

There are several issues that need to be addressed, including The title should be in the format "{Timeframe} {Location} floods". -  SpL o T  (*C*+u+g) 08:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Timeframe - December 2006 or just 2006
 * 2) Location - Peninsular Malaysia, Singapore and Sumatra


 * The floods are expected to continue in Sumatra until January 1, 2007, so the name of the timeframe is now even more debatable. Shall we have a vote? --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 03:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Due to the proximity of the floods, whether a low pressure system is around or separate convection, I'd say it should stay as one article. -  SpL o T  (*C*+u+g) 09:50, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * December 2006 Southeast Asian floods seems okay but how about 2006 Typhoon Utor associated flooding? Did Typhoon Utor cause much flooding in the Phillipines and Vietnam where it hit? Nil Einne 18:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The former is fine because no other non-typhoon flooding was reported in Southeast Asia in December 2006. Typhoon Utor did not directly cause the recent floods, despite several sources claiming so, meteorological agencies and our own WikiProject Tropical Cyclones members have tracked Typhoon Utor and the convection and wind associated with the flooding was not from remnants of Utor. Hence, only a brief mention of Typhoon Utor would be enough, and the latter title is inappropriate. -  SpL o T  (*C*+u+g) 04:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * While I don't mean any disrespect to our contributors, can you show one source which claims that the floods were not associated with Typhoon Utor? Currently we have one source which does, which appears to be coming from the Malaysian meterological agency. So in the absense of reports to the contrary, I would personally suggest we have to accept this at face value. It is not our place to contradict published sources regardless of whether we believe they are correct or not (check out No original research). If it was really true that the flooding was not associated with Typhoon Utor, I would expect some source would have said this... Note both the 2006 Malaysian floods article and the 2006 Pacific typhoon season claim the floods were associated with Typhoon Utor (not necessarily directly caused by it, but associated nevertheless) so until both these articles are corrected with any new info that arises, IMHO we have to accept that the floods are associated with Typhoon Utor, for now... Nil Einne 10:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem. As clarification, I would like to say that I do not refute the fact that an independent news source has noted Typhoon Utor's role in the floods, and for the sake of discussion, I'll quote it...


 * "Science, Technology and Innovation Minister Datuk Seri Dr Jamaluddin Jarjis said the heavy rainfall was brought by strong winds from the South China Sea and western part of the Pacific Ocean, the after-effect of Typhoon Utor which hit the Philippines recently."


 * The quote itself is extremely ambiguous, as after-effects could mean that Utor disrupted regional wind systems or that its remnants redeveloped and caused heavy rainfall. However, I do not deny that the source makes a link between the floods and Utor. Hence, I find it appropriate for the article to mention Utor, but this does not entail that Utor caused the floods, merely that Utor is associated with the floods. Due to the shaky nature of the quote, I suggest that any title with Utor in it be abandoned.


 * No sources were found to prove otherwise (i.e. that Utor was not to blame for the floods), but I find it unlikely that any news source would specifically say that Utor was not the cause. Rather, most did not mention this. As an example, some news sources could say that the execution of Saddam Hussein might cause a spike in violence in Iraq, and some could just not mention the execution as a potential trigger, but none will completely rule out Saddam Hussein's role in the insurgency. - SpLoT | '07 (*C*+u+g) 16:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Scope
If I'm not wrong, 80,000 people have been evacuated in Sumatra, which is comparable to the 100,000 in Peninsular Malaysia, so that's definitely severe enough to warrant inclusion in the article. Singapore's flood had 1,000 people affected but quite a lot of damage caused too at Jalan Dermawan (landslide) and in the Thomson area (1.5 m high flooding), so that could be included too. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 06:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Update: 100,000 have fled their homes in Sumatra now, while the death toll there has risen to more than 70 with more than 100 missing. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 03:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Update: 300,000 have fled their homes in Sumatra while the death toll there has risen to 115 with 214 missing. Another 8 have been killed in Malaysia while 1 flood-related death has occurred in Singapore. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 08:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Should we include heavy rain-related (NOT flood-related) deaths, such as the one involving the driver who crashed his car along Stevens Road in the death toll? I'm not sure when the next report by NEA on this flood will be published. It'll probably contain the figures that we need pertaining to Singapore. Anyway, 141 dead in Sumatra and 11 in Malaysia. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 06:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed the heavy rain-related death from the death toll. Please reinstate it if you feel it should be reinstated though. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 06:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The article should be in the format provided by WikiProject Meteorology, incorporating some sections from WikiProject Tropical Cyclones. I propose the following format: We also need appropriate pictures, if available. -  SpL o T  (*C*+u+g) 08:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Lede section
 * History (?)
 * Impact
 * Aftermath
 * Records
 * References
 * External Links

Participants

 * 1)  SpL o T  (*C*+u+g) 05:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 2)  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 06:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Ter e nce Ong 09:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

NEA

 * http://app.nea.gov.sg/cms/htdocs/article.asp?pid=2815
 * http://app.nea.gov.sg/cms/htdocs/article.asp?pid=2811

BBC News

 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6211891.stm
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6208647.stm
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6203973.stm

CNN

 * http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/indonesia.floods.reut/index.html
 * http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/indonesia.floods.ap/index.html
 * http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/26/indonesia.floods.reut/index.html
 * http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/24/sumatra.floods.ap/index.html
 * http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/22/malaysia.floods.ap/index.html
 * http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/20/malaysia.floods.ap/index.html

History

 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/245635/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/249328/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/249215/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248220/1/.html

Impact

 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248726/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/253536/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248424/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248549/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248333/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248136/1/.html
 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/248089/1/.html

Aftermath

 * http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/248872/1/.html

How to continue?
Given that there is already an article 2006 Malaysian floods which people are likely to remain working on, how do you plan to proceed? One option would be to move the work to there. Another would be to stay here for Sumatra/Indonesia associated stuff but move work for Malaysia and Singapore to the other article Nil Einne 18:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it's mainpage linked, I felt it necessary that we get include at least enough about the Indonesian flooding so it can be mentioned on the mainpage. I've started it, someone needs to help. Someone also needs to rename it Nil Einne 19:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * We've decided to work on this sandbox and create the article December 2006 Southeast Asian floods rather than work with 2006 Malaysian floods. The current mainpage-linked article is rather short, and the sandbox is more comprehensive, giving us a chance to work slowly to develop this article. -  SpL o T  (*C*+u+g) 04:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * We'll probably request that 2006 Malaysian floods be moved here as this article really contains the entire situation in Southeast Asia, or more specifically, Sumatra, Singapore and Peninsular Malaysia. We'll also be using some of the information from that article, although it isn't really up-to-date, e.g. with the death toll. --  Ouishoebean  / (talk) (Humour =)) 06:44, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Revival
I'll be reviving this in a couple of weeks, and am currently aiming to complete this sandbox by mid-June, with the help of the two other participants. The amount of news sources we've collected is staggering. -  SpL o T  // 10:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)