User talk:SpacemanSpiff/Archives/2011/June

Moving Indian National Congress page as Indian National Congress (I)
Hi,

Please move Indian National Congress page as Indian National Congress (I). Current page misguiding congress image.

-Malyadri — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malyadri (talk • contribs) 23:50, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Please do not move pages like this. Discuss moves at WP:RM. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  04:34, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 June 2011
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Woohoo!
Hey Spiff, I may be an honorary Tamil, but I'm out of my league here. Your help is appreciated. Drmies (talk) 16:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The page needs cleaning and protection. If you look at the first reference, it doesn't support the first statement. This new text add on just continues on that. I'll take a look soon. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've done a few chops, and watchlisted, so give me a shout if you need anything. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:58, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Re Enthiran
Hi! as you can see from the article history, User:Kollyfan is trying to dominate others. At first he claimed the gross to be 179 c and now as 255 c. I suspect he might be a sockpuppet, because just before a couple of weeks, this user involved in vandalising Tamil cinema article and was blocked indefinitely for sock-puppetry. Now this user is having problems with this article and also Dasavatharam (both Tamil cinema related). Thanks! -- Commander (Ping Me) 10:21, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen his contributions in a while to actually compare the Enthiran/Dasavatharam edits, but if you think it's him then request a CU at Sockpuppet investigations/Padmalakshmisx. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  10:26, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! By the way, now shall I revert his edits on the article. -- Commander (Ping Me) 10:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not here to give permissions in edit wars, whatever disputes there are should be discussed on the talk page. If he is indeed the sock of an indef blocked user then it's a little different. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  10:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No! it's not actually a request, I'm asking this because the article was completely locked before four days with his version. -- Commander (Ping Me) 10:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 June 2011
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Debasishkoley
has been warned mutiple times not to add his opinion and change sourced data to fit his POV and was blocked briefly once before. He ignores the warnings and just keeps repeating the same edits again and again -. Can you please block him for disruptive editing.--Sodabottle (talk) 19:01, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just seeing this, I see that it's been taken care of for now. I'll keep it on my watchlist now. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  07:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Query
- Does this user sound familiar to you?. He started editing in April, but seems like and old hand and is pov pushing in a wide range of articles.--Sodabottle (talk) 15:07, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Blocked as a sock of MrPontiac1, looks like he's jumped out of the range and there are some other socks too. I've replied at Elockid's page. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  19:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Kongu Vellalar
Thanks for semi-protecting Kongu Vellalar. This is my second major run at sorting the article out, but it is going to take some considerable time. It must surely be one of the worst lengthy articles on Wikipedia, albeit I have reduced its size by 40% or so in 24 hours.

I will build it back up but the priority right now is to remove copvios, seek cites, remove POV/OR etc. Then work out how to turn it into something sensible with what ever content remains. Then expand it. This could run on and on! - Sitush (talk) 18:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd semi-protected this page a few months back too, just around when Pondheepankar was getting active. I think Kanatonian did some clean up then, so you could take a look at that version. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  19:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Been back but couldn't spot it. I did find the point where it blew up last November, when came along. I finally gave up trying to do things piecemeal because it will take too long & I am fairly sure that 90% of what was there was plain wrong in one way or another. So, I have just restored to the version immediately before Knight44's arrival and will build from that. It is the most drastic thing I've ever done here, so if I have done the wrong thing then let me know please. - Sitush (talk) 20:31, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 June 2011
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This user is adding factually incorrect information to Madurai. . This info was discussed and was agreed upon as factually incorrect in the talk page and removed. When he readded it, i left him a note on his talk page. But today an IP has readded the same info at 11.57. When i check Gulamshafi's contributions time line, it is obvious that the IP is him editing logged out. Can you please take a look and warn him.--Sodabottle (talk) 12:39, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * He has done it again today logged out 117.199.129.168. I am suspecting this is someone who clearly knows how to avoid/circumvent edit warring warning. Can you take a look at this please?--Sodabottle (talk) 12:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Sourcing issue at A. Nesamony
Hi, I have got myself a bit of a problem with an India-related article. It does not see much traffic & so there is something of a stalemate in a discussion about whether sources from a particular publishing house can be deemed WP:RS in en-Wiki. I asked whether he could give me any feedback about the situation, which he did here. He also suggested that I have a word with you. So that's what I am doing! Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 13:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I see you have run into Kumaripriya. He immediately resorts to personal attacks (called me a "religious fanatic" once). The best thing is to ignore him - he labels everyone he disagrees with as part of a vast rightwing conspiracy.--Sodabottle (talk) 13:22, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I can live with the attacks, most of the time. S/he'll get blocked for it eventually, as per the past ANI discussion.


 * I just want the sourcing sorted. Basically, he was and in some cases still is citing to what appear possibly to be unreliable sources. I have said throughout that I have no reason to think that Nesamony is non-notable: I just don't want to see crap sources used: either find better sources or leave the tag(s) in place. I could take it to WP:RSN but that place often does not reach a consensus and on something like this may not even get a response. - Sitush (talk) 13:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the reference can be used for non-controversial information such as his birth place, date, education, political appointments. i will be surprised if you will be able to find any other source for these. i wouldnt use the reference for loaded sentences like "Nesamony was responsible for Mr. X's election as Rajya Sabha member". Nesamony is hailed as being responsible for Kanyakumari district district being part of Tami Nadu today; it is a well-known belief in TN. while this is possible, i can not imagine a single man being entirely responsible for this; i havent seen or read any academic work which details this historic merger. however, in memory of him, a lot of things are named after him including the transport corporation in KK district as Nesamony Transport Corporation (NTC) until they got rid of all the names at some point. --CarTick (talk) 13:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I just saw the sourcing discussion, IMO, this ought to be treated per the guidelines of WP:SPS, granted that the person is dead, but it appears that the publishing house is a local one in honor of the subject (Nesamony Tamilar Printing Press) and the book appears to be a hagiography. As for the books/author, just searching on google, I found it being spammed across quite a few en.wiki articles, which along with mirrors, account for all the first/second page hits. I haven't found any libraries that hold the book on Worldcat or vendors in India that sell it. However, the book is available at the most comprehensive (and most beautiful in the world, if I might be so bold) public library in Tamil Nadu (in Madras, which happens to benefit from the first library act of any legislature in India -- an article which I've been meaning to write for over a year now!) -- Connemara Public Library, it has 146 pages and is priced at Rs40. This is lower than the typical price of scholarly works, including college text books, that's all I can say. To actually get more information about this, what I would suggest is for you to find any books on Google on the Indian States Reorganisation Act of 1956 as that's when all the area was split off from Travancore and added to Madras. I see a couple of books by him in this search. You can play around with the search strings, I would definitely use "Nagercoil", "Cape Comerin" etc. (Also, if you haven't come across it yet, there'll be something similar to Tirupati / Tirutani being added to AP/TN respectively and who's responsible for that.) Hope this is helpful. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:34, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Stop your threatening behaviour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Babybumpy (talk • contribs) 19:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am bemused by the Babybumpy contribution above, but presume it relates to something entirely different! Thanks for your comments, and in particular for your suggestions. - Sitush (talk) 23:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

/*Tamil cinema --- on IC */
Hi spaceman. Firstly I am not doing any edit war. I am possibly making feel the importance on my edits to that one particular User, who is claiming extreme concern needlessly to bring attention & degrading the present form for his/her own choice of interest. That's it. Hope you receive me well understood on this. thanks.. !!!    Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 20:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You've been given a year's time to mend your copyright violating, POV pushing ways, if you can not figure out despite warnings where you're wrong, then Wikipedia is not for you. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  21:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Dewan357
Painfully tedious reversion. Not much else to do.&mdash;Kww(talk) 21:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * A ban discussion would just be a formality at this point. The only difference between an banned user and an indefinitely-blocked-user-that-evades-his-block is that no admin should unblock the banned user without a discussion. There's no different in treatment of his socks. If you notice editors that you think are Dewan357, you are free to act, and you are always free to ask me to double-check your suspicions.&mdash;Kww(talk) 23:45, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Block evasion
has put comments on my talk page, that of & a couple of article talk pages using an IP - Special:Contributions/115.242.47.37. I don't think that it is malicious but you may wish to have a word because he is evading your block. Up to you, of course. - Sitush (talk) 07:37, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * My apologies - I see that you have extended the block. - Sitush (talk) 07:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the Iyengar page.
Thank You for protecting the iyengar page. However before protecting it, user:s a narasimhan has made two vandalising edits, that are going to stay unremoved till the protection period will be over. In one of the edits, he mentioned "one considers the other t be superior/inferior" and this dicriminatory edit is going to remain till july 9th. Check here. It is the "Ahobila Mutt" group who were tested as the test was from "Kurnool district(incorporating ahobilam)". But the user has deliberately resorted to vandalism by providing extremely controversial and discriminatory data. The last two edits of "user:s a narasimhan" are highly unsourced and extremely controversial and discriminatory, and soem admin' user should revert those edits in the "protected iyengar page". Now, without a consensus i cannot request for a "edit:protected" page. Please help, and suggest a way to remove the discriminatory remarks and vandalism, which are not going to be removed till July 9(as the page is fully protected). It is after his vandalising edits that the page was protected. Please help. Thank You. Hari7478 (talk) 08:41, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * In cases of edit wars and content disputes, the protected version is never the correct version and the protection does not endorse the correct version. Please follow the steps I have suggested in my talk page posting to resolve the content issues. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  09:12, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Semi protection for Madurai
He has switched IPs and done itagain after the final warning. block and semi protect?--Sodabottle (talk) 12:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sigh, yeah. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  12:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Sanskrit
Hi, I was wondering if you could explain this edit. I'm particularly baffled at how something that bungles English grammar so strikingly could also be a copyright violation. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi] 15:06, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * He's cherrypicked a few random phrases from different parts of the source to construct that concoction. See Contributor copyright investigations/Thisthat2011‎ for the example in the case request. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:14, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I see. Seems like a good faith addition, so I've readded it and fixed it up.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]  18:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Pondheepankar again
He is back again and being a nuisance. and. And he is trying to get me into trouble by claiming that i am edit warring in summaries (must have seen my blocks/unblocks in my talk page and trying to get me in trouble with an unsuspecting admin). Can you block this /20 range. This is not his only connection. This is his home connection and he has others, but he uses this primarily. This /20 was blocked twice by tnxman in May for a week each time. Can you block it again?. collateral damage seems very limited.--Sodabottle (talk) 15:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Blocking of my account
'''Can you please explain the reasons for blocking my account? How did I breach NPOV policy of wikipedia? Explain clearly what is the exact change breached your point of view? You mentioned one change but you have undone all my changes. Please explain why? How my editings were distruptive? If you really respect the NPOV policy of wikipedia please confirm that you are not using your administrator account to stop others who simply make changes which are against your point of view? Can you please confirm that do you hold the account soda bottle?Bold text''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Babybumpy (talk • contribs) 16:23, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You've been told the exact reason on your talk page, changing accepted names to choose your POV and in the process breaking wikilinks, interwiki links and category links. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

It is very clear that you are evading from my questions. You haven't answered any of my questions.You haven't informed me what is the acceptable term in the text I have changed to my POV in your opinion.Lets have a public discussion. It is very important this article has the correct acceptable terms rather than containing terms which suites POV of administrators who are able to block a user like me when the changes are against their POV rather than a NPOV of wikipedia. I hope you will behave as a grown up by not blocking my account again for raising questions on this page.--Babybumpy (talk) 17:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * A SS said above - the reason you were blocked is on your talk. I sincerely believe that you do understand your block and instead you are posting here because you are just a bit pissed off. Island Monkey talk the talk 17:54, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * One last time, my talk page is not to discuss how your POV can be presented on wikipedia, you do things you're not supposed to do here, you're warned and if you don't listen and continue, you're blocked. If you want to change page titles, then go to the talk pages of those articles and discuss them, not change links from other pages to suit what you think it should be. Simple as that. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:57, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Iyengar
Thanks for thinking of me for resolving an ancient dispute, which the courts (both during the British Rule and subsequently the High Courts and Supreme Court of independent India) have not been able to resolve for centuries. This dispute is akin to the Shia and Sunni dispute, the only difference is that there is no bloodshed, probably because the population of the Iyengar community in the world is less than a million and there is intermarriage between the two subgroups. My recent experience with the Vadgalai]]s community has been one of total betrayal, when my younger brother funded the total rehabilitation of an old temple (affiliated to Vadagalai sampradamayam) in T.Narsipur with his own funds (about US$ 0.7 million} I had actively supported him in this work hoping that old animosities could be buried (since my ancestors had suffered under this dispute) only to realise that the Vadagalai community is deeply entrenched in hatred towards Thengalais. Hence, any opinion I voice will be tempered with anger and bias. I am sure you would appreciate my position even though in the modern age one of the enlightened community of Iyengars are still harp and fight on the Kalai issue. In my view the dispute is unresolvable. And that is the reason I have not touched the Iyengar article for a long time.-- Nvvchar . 12:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's a fair reason. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  12:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I can understand if such disputes occur in articles concerning martial races but I find it astonishing that there is a great deal of fight in articles of a community traditionally considered "docile".- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 13:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

SpacemanSpiff, I have reasons to believe that Kamal Hassan was a Thenkalai Iyengar. Will it be possible for you to do some research on this?- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 13:20, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that would be right up Vensatry's alley. I started looking at this as an WP:Uninvolved admin, and I hope to stay uninvolved in this dispute. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  13:24, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

No. Kamal Haasan is completely vadakalai and i'm sure of this. There are many vadakalais, like tv sundaram iyengar and others, who are from down south(Tirunelveli). This is an image of TVS Iyengar - Check this:. Knowing kamal haasan is vadakalai, i failed to add kamal haasan's name because, in my earlier days of editing, i was not matured/generous enough to add kamal due to his "atheistic, anti-brahmin" sentiments, although knowing that he is vadakalai. But now i hope i'm an editor with a neutral outlook. Kamal is definitely vadakalai. But you guys can do a research and also confirm with many other iyengars. It is 100% true that kamal is completely vadakalai. You check it, if you are not satisfied. Hari7478 (talk) 05:01, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

By the way, cases of intermarriage between the subgroups are extremely less, and the two groups hardly intermarry. Among my family members and their distant relatives, there is no instance of any intermarriage. Such intermarriages are relatively very low. Hari7478 (talk) 07:38, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

User:Thisthat2011's edits reverted
I observe that his edits were reverted and the revisions blocked. I understand the reason of the revert, but why the block of the revisions? Can't we use the sources of the copyvios as references if they are RS? One of the not blocked revisions used a Google books, which was a RS. Please leave a talkback if you reply. Thanks. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 12:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The rev-deling of the versions fits well within the criteria of RD1 and he seems to complicate matters further by reinserting the copyvios after they were deleted without revdel. Unfortunately this has even impacted main page articles like Mundeshwari Temple which I haven't gotten to yet, but this version is riddled with copyvios and essentially subsequent revisions become derivative works. I have nothing against using the sources he's used if they qualify as RS, but it is not possible to leave everything as is given the quantum of copyvio (see the CCI page). cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  12:51, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What is done is within policy, but I don't completely agree. Is it possible to keep the references somewhere in the external links or something? I don't understand why his research needs to go waste. It can be used by some future "good" editor. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 13:23, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look at the CCI and tell me what pages you want the sources for, I'll be happy to provide them, but that's all I can do. There are enough and more CCIs on WP:India that we have to do this for currently. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  13:35, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Siddhivinayak Temple, Mumbai will be good for now. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 13:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's already there in the EL section. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  14:02, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It is the official temple site. If I need any other links, I will come back. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 14:14, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Pondheepankar again
He is now back with a different ip range. Can you please semiprotect Chera dynasty, Kongu Nadu, Cheraman Perumal and Template:Chera Dynasty‎--Sodabottle (talk) 07:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 June 2011
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Derogatory User name
This is to let you know that the username Chothy poorimol is plain derogatory. Salih ( talk ) 08:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd already blocked on the basis of the talk page note, there were a couple of others like this too, the easier ones I can identify, but these two words, I wasn't familiar with. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  10:40, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Refactoring at Nair
Hi, I have just removed a comment at Talk_:Nair made by. That user is developing a history of snide digs against Nairs etc and appears sometimes to be gaming the system in order to achieve this. I would be grateful if you could check whether I was correct to remove this and let me know. I'll self-revert if I am wrong.

I also left a note on the user's talk page. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 08:09, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Seems reasonable; I think you'll need to file two SPIs for the SPAs on this page. I find it difficult to believe that the same topics are being raked up repeatedly by disconnected users and also check on the SPI if the CU might find a short-term rangeblock feasible. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  13:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the review. I raised the issue of Kondotty/Chekon socking in replies to messages from both of them. Both ignored me but Chekon has not edited since 22 June & so perhaps that message hit its target. I am not sure of which other master/sock you are referring to. - Sitush (talk) 13:05, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There was one more in addition to Chekon last week on that side of the fence if I remember correctly, and on the other side of the fence there are the two that I blocked yesterday, the one that popped in today and if you see the TP history you'll probably note more. Besides, a sleeper check on SPI, in addition could also unearth any good-hand/bad-hand behavior. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  13:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Likewise, on the Yadav/Ahir pages, isn't the likelihood of AIH / VK being the same quite high? From what I've seen just looking at a few edits on those pages it appears so, but I'm not editing there so can't really say. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  13:15, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Done one - Sockpuppet_investigations/KondottySultan. I'll need to do a few preliminary comparisons for the other. Yes, AIH/VK may well be the same but has had more involvement with those articles than I. Will have a word. - Sitush (talk) 13:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd have to go read over AIH/VK pages for a bit; want to have a reasonable degree of certainty before kicking these things off. It is indeed distressing that a large portion of the "opposition" could be a handful of people. Or perhaps, contrariwise, reassuring that of 18,000 readers/month at Nair, only a couple are upset enough to even post. MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just for your info - Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard - Sitush (talk) 16:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That threat was the exact same one that featured before somewhere, along with a link to a DNA India article on someone being arrested for writing badly about the caste or something, which clearly speaks for a need to do laundry. Robbie Smit, the two I blocked yesterday, Shannon, King are all the ones that post messages in this manner, there could be more of course. As far as AIH/VK, I see a report's already been started for VK, so the sooner you add to it, if you are going to add to it, the better. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:51, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It is impossible to tell after just one contribution but the new account User:KoyilandySultan has already raised my suspicion & I will watch carefully. The creation was very soon after the recent SPI blocks and the message left on my talk page is both odd and "perfectly formed" for a new user, although of course they could have been editing as an IP beforehand. Chekon previously adopted this pseudo-naive stance when the account was created. - Sitush (talk) 11:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a sock alright. I just couldn't say from which of the two draws -- could just as likely be an impersonation sock. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  11:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)