User talk:Spangineer/archive07

Thanks for the help!

 * Well, I drew my map (see Image:Operation Auca Map.svg) using layers in Inkscape. Worked out nicely, though it's not the greatest map&mdash;I didn't try to smooth out too many of the corners of the lines I drew, but it's not noticeable at the image sizes most people will see.  So thanks for giving me the info I needed to get started.  I was slightly confused by your last note, however&mdash;I don't understand why you have the .png versions on Wikipedia.  Why not upload .svg versions so that people can edit them?  Is that not an option in Freehand? --Spangineer[es]  (háblame)  21:40, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. No, I don't have any program to create SVGs. I'll check out Inkscape. Hal Jespersen 21:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Staxringold's RFA
Spangineer, thank you for participating in my RfA. It passed with an amazingly unopposed 77/0/1. Thanks for the support everybody! If you see me doing anything wrong, want to ask me something, or just want to yell in my general direction, leave me a note on my talk page. I promise to try and knock out Wikipedia's problems wherever I may find them!

Staxringold talkcontribs 20:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Stubs and questions
No rush on the Rizzo article, you were nice enough to offer to take a look at it, so whenever you get to it (or even not) is fine.


 * I think that the opposition to the stub you are speaking about is both minimal, and was mostly related to its original name psu-stub which was ambiguous. I changed the name to pennstate-stub. I looked at WP:STUB before creating the stub because I figured there were rules for stubs, When I saw the number of stubs requirement, I figured I wouldn't create it, but there was a point on the page that says stub templates created relating to a WikiProject are not subject to any minimum stub article number threshold, which is why I created it. When I pointed that out on the Stubs page, the response from another editor was to provide me their interpretation of WP:STUB. I really don't see any significant opposition, but based on your input I won't create the stub, it's just easier not to, and to keep track of stub-like articles on a To-Do list or on paper. It just seemed odd that Willard is a US Building stub, and BJC is a sports venue stub, and Building X might be yet a third stub.


 * I think I asked the wrong question about Medlar-Lubrano, I should have asked you "Where do you list current events or events happening today?" I found the answer to my own question, I'm going to list it under Current Sports events closer to June 20. I'm not really aching to get an article listed as FA or a DYK, I saw the main page has a list of events that happened this day in history, and thought it might go there.


 * Regarding UPark campus buildings, I think I might have been vague in my original question to you. I couldn't tell if the UPark article was meant to cover UPark buildings, or if the UPark template was meant to cover buildings, or if the main article was meant to cover buildings. I wasn't really thinking that all branch campus buildings should have their own articles, because I imagine those buildings would be covered in their respective branch campus articles. There are several main campus building that are worthy (IMO) of their own articles that I didn't see on the project list, for example Armsby and Old Botany, but I've been hesitant to add to the list, I feel like I would be asking others to do work that I should be doing myself. I could make convincing importance and notability arguments in support of each building I've identified.


 * I think a dorm article like U of Michigan has would be a great idea, it would take care of a lot of buildings all at once. They also seem to have (or intend to have) articles about their schools, I think eventually Penn State should have something similar. An article about Eberly College of Science could cover the science majors and facilities, for example.

Thanks, and sorry for cluttering up your talk page. RockinRob Talk 22:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

willard preacher
Spangineer~ yup I think you are right.. I was thinking of adding a *famous quotes* type section to the article. The article as it stands is not very encyclopeadic.. i would welcome your thoughts about this.--Rev.bayes 23:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

EWI link on welding page
EWI (Edison Welding Institute) is a non-profit organization very identical in nature to TWI (The Welding Institue). In fact, TWI helped to create EWI. Because The Welding Institue and the Canadian Welding Association have links on the wikipedia welding page, I would expect that wikipedia would afford the same fair rules to listing EWI, North America's leading R&D organization for materials joining and welding. Please explain why our link should not be included on the page if you are willing to list TWI and the Canadian Welding Association. Thank you.

EWI

EWI link added again
I have once again entered the EWI link on the page

EWI EWI 15:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Please respond with explaination
My user name is EWI, please respond with explaination of why you have removed the link to EWI from the welding page, I have explained why EWI should be added to the page. Thank you.

Perhaps I should request clarification from the Wikipedia management. I disagree with your perspective about excluding EWI as an additional link on the page. If necessary, I'm sure another Welding expert or authority unconnected to EWI would agree that it should be added to the page. As a new contributor to Wikipedia I am not completely versed on its spamming policy. By no means, do I intend to spam the site. I would like rules of fair play to apply to the page. EWI provides many pages of information on Welding and I repeat is similar to The Welding Institute in its mission to assist those in need of weling R&D. EWI 15:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your mission to keep the page as academic as possible. The EWI Web Pages that I think are informative regarding welding include but are not limited to: http://www.ewi.org/company/history/1.asp (developed in conjunction with AWS) http://www.ewi.org/resources/welding_standards.asp http://www.ewi.org/resources/publications.asp http://www.ewi.org/resources/training.asp http://www.ewi.org/resources/associations.asp http://www.ewi.org/capabilities/nde_testing.asp http://www.ewi.org/capabilities/microtech.asp

Please let me know if I can provide any further information. EWI 16:51, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

spam warning
How is it that I have been accused of spamming? I was trying to clean up the MDG article.

Bodnarchuck 01:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)Bodnarchuck

Ladakh copyedit request
Hi Spangineer. Could you go through the Ladakh article once, and make some improvements in the prose if possible? Copyediting does require the review of multiple editors, and I've gone through the text so many times that I have gotten too used to it to figure out what to do to improve it. Your contributions will be appreciated. deeptrivia (talk) 02:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hudson Taylor and his wife, Maria
Hello,

Noted with thanks. I agree with your comment about their daughter, Grace not needing a link to a page. However, there are several publications that note the understated significance of his first wife, Maria Dyer. (From Jerusalem to Iryan Jaya, Not Less Than Everything, and Hudson & Maria, pioneers in China). If Taylor was responsible for the widest evangelistic campaign since the time of Paul the Apostle, and his wife was instumental in more than half of the workers being versed in Chinese - there is warrant for some study of her as a biography. Best regards, Brian

Help me convince people to produce citations
Hi, thank you for your help with the FAC Forth. After that experience I realized that it is far easier to find citations as you write the material rather than go back a long time afterwards. I am currently working on programming language and would like it to be a FA someday.

The problem I am running into is I diligently find citations to support my proposed material but the other people in the project are constantly trying to come up with reasons for their proposed material based on their general knowledge and not on specific citations. I keep telling them that even if they are right it doesn't help without a citation (verifiability not truth) but they don't seem to understand me. Is there anything you can do to help me convince them? Perhaps I could direct them to your essay and your talk page here. Thank you for your time. Ideogram 04:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

hey
207.255.71.158 20:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)hey fellow pennstater!!...i just wanted the pennstate page with more info....i didnot know the guidelines to Wikipedia...sorry for that...i was wondering if u wanna put up some pics of the Beaver stadium and let the readers know that its the 2nd largest stadium too. Well thats it for now....ttyl have fun...and remember WE ARE PENNSTATE!

http://www.psu.edu/ur/NEWS/news/beaverexpan.html for some pics http://imagearchive.psu.edu/thumbnails.php?album=16 and general stuff http://imagearchive.psu.edu/

Category:Penn State University alumni
I was puzzled why the category Category:Pennsylvania State University alumni didn't exist, and then realized that the reason was that the category currently in use is Category:Penn State University alumni. Perhaps a redirect from Category:Pennsylvania State University alumni to Category:Penn State University alumni might be a good idea. I don't want to create it myself in case there are issues about Penn State University categories that I don't know about, so I'm asking you to iff you think it appropriate. TruthbringerToronto 22:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for reverting Gibraltarian's latest nonsense. I wish he'd go get a hobby. --Woohookitty(meow) 12:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thx
Thanks for picking up the repeated sentence in the paragraph exercise. Is the exercise pitched at the right level, do you think? Tony 01:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

WikiReader Latin America History
Hello. I have started History of Latin America Wikireader. Perhaps it will interrest you. Of course, any comments, critics, suggestions, and help are welcome.--Youssef 12:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Deena Katz Graphic Photo
Why was the picture taken down? I had the right from Ms. Katz herself to put this up (She was my professor at Texas Tech). Most public photos available are from 10 years ago and this is her offical signature on emails.

216.21.65.2 14:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Cevin in Tampa


 * Thanks, I will email the creator to get formal permission as well.  Once I do, I may need some help as to how to place that document to the site. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.21.65.2 (talk • contribs).

Thx
Thanks for your feedback, Spangineer. It's just the start of a larger resource, and yes, I think the experiment has worked.

One aspect I'd like to introduce is an intermediary "hint" for some exercises: they press the hint button to receive a partial answer, or a stimulus that will put them on the right track. Then they press the answer button for the complete answer. Psychologically, I think that's a good way to help people, at least some of the time. Tony 15:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Deena Katz & Harold Evensky
I received the following email from Ric Machin to allow for the use of the pic. I hope this is allowable

From: Ric Machin [mailto:ric@ricmachin.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:51 AM To: Frank4southmiami@gmail.com Subject: Re: Deena Katz & Harold Evensky

Hello Frank. Interesting message. By all means let Wikipedia know you have my full permission to reproduce the images on their site. If they need me to contact them directly, that'll be fine too. Your offer of a wikipedia page of my own sounds intriguing. Best regards, Ric.

Invitation to Wikimania!
Wikimania is thee event where Wikipedians and others interested in building a culture of information--sharing collide to produce new ideas. We have scheduled multiple speakers, workshops, flash presentations, and discussion sessions. The top ten reasons to come, and ways to get involved:


 * Raise conference awareness. Add { {subst:User:GChriss/Wikimania invitation} } to a friend's talk page.
 * Join us online via audio/visual live feeds and IRC Q&A participation.
 * Volunteer to accomplish must--do tasks. (Ask how on IRC #wikimania)
 * Register! And provide transportation or housing to others.

 Click here to register, and have a look at the main site for more information. Interested? GChriss 00:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the award and the support on Poetry. But, you know, I figured out what this was all about when I adopted the Franklin D. Roosevelt article during its FAC and tried to satisfy your objections - so consider the Poetry article in part of product of your own efforts. Best, Sam 14:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the edits, too. The reason there is a disconnect between the summary in Poetry and the History articles is because the parent article took it's own path after the split, with sections and History and Poetics getting merged and reworked.  That History article is pretty pitiful at the moment, and is going to need a lot of work soon.  Sam 14:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Alison Krauss
Replied to I believe all your points. Please let me know on the page! Staxringold talkcontribs 15:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've further replied, thanks for sticking with it! Staxringold talkcontribs 20:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've removed About.com. Please LMK what specifically (beyond the images, which there really isn't anything I can do about and there is precedant for fair-use image only FAs) I can do in your opinion! Thanks! Staxringold talkcontribs 22:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Staxringold talkcontribs 16:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey Spangineer! Thanks for working with me through several post/response sets to get the article on Alison Krauss to a high enough standard to recieve your support. Raul was nice enough to give the FAC another shot when voting stagnated and the 3 oppose voters stopped responding despite repeated requests for an updated evaluation. I hope the article can garner your support once again, but if not I look foward to fixing whatever actionable objections you believe the article contains! Thanks! Staxringold talkcontribs 23:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The article has a free lead image now as well. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Thanks
Unfortunately, I'm not an admin, but I will be sure to alert the admins on IRC.--digital_m e (TalkˑContribs) 18:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

George Muller
Spangineer, I reverted the George Muller page, because the link seemed to work again. I hope that's ok.--Hmner 19:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

no prob on the rv....I have a quick question...
...as for blocking, I have never blocked anyone before(I thought only an admin could do that?) Give me a brief "how to" and in the meantime I'll put that particular users "articles of choice" on my watchlist. Cheers and take care! Anger22 21:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * thanks for the clarification and also for the vote of confidence as far as any potential RfA goes. I have watched and voted on several RfA's so I am familiar with the scrutiny the nominees can be put through. As far my contribution to Wikipedia...I sort of found my niche. BUT, along the way...buried amongst the vandal bashing...I have managed to do a few "quality" edits here and there. It's too bad Wikipedia couldn't have a 2 tier admin system. Full bore admins carrying the full tool box. And maybe entry level admins who can provide support for the AiV. Not with any long term blocking power, per se, but at least have the ability to short term block blatant vandals until a full admin can review and extend if needed. Anyhoo, Take care! Anger22 22:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

a quick admin question
While I have your attention...recently an anon added a huge amount of bold text to the B. B. King article. It's just a series of B.B. quotes concerning his early life. The text is copied directly from another website. At the end of the quotes it does include the source of the text. My question is...Is is OK to copy that much content from an external source?. The web link is there(albeit subtle). It was my guess that to include such a huge amount of content like that would A)be frowned upon or B) require a much more prominent posting of where it came from in the first place. If you get the chance to look it over and let me know the "Wiki-ways" I'd appreciate it. Thanks and take care. Anger22 00:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification! Cheers and take care! Anger22 13:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

FAC: Sesame Street
You recently commented on my FAC for Sesame Street, which failed because I acted to slowly on it. Would you care revisiting the article, to see if it meets your approval now? -- Zanimum 19:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Nittwits
I noticed you labled the Nittwits article as part of WikiProject Penn State. Is there any particular direction this article should go? Would this make it notable enough to include under the Student Life or Athletics sections of the main Penn State article? --BroadSt Bully 16:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

George W. Bush
Hi Spangineer - I request your help in making this article an FA. I just re-wrote large segments of the article, and I need your critical analysis to determine what to do next. Help! This Fire Burns.....Always  22:52, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Georgia Move
As a past participant in the discussion on how to handle the Georgia pages, I thought you might be interested to know that there's a new attempt to reach consensus on the matter being addressed at Talk:Georgia (country). Please come by and share your thoughts to help form a consensus. --Vengeful Cynic 04:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Six Sigma
My apologies for removing one of the consensus-approved links at the Six Sigma article; I was cleaning up a linkspammer and that link was collateral. Thanks for restoring it and not flaming me for the removal! :) --AbsolutDan (talk) 15:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Lion Ambassadors
Please undelete Lion Ambassadors; it had the hangon tag and had an open AFD. Thanks. --Spangineer[es] (háblame)  12:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Please don't insult me by protecting the article. I'm an admin too, and suggesting that I'm acting in bad faith is extremely frustrating.  All I want is a simple explanation of what is notable when it comes to clubs.  Instead, every time I try to open any sort of discussion on the topic I get "delete, delete, delete". What does one have to do to get any sort of hearing around here? --Spangineer[es]  (háblame)  12:56, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am sorry that you feel insulted. However:
 * The hangon tag specifically says "Note that this request is not binding, and the page may still be deleted if it is considered that the page unquestionably meets the speedy deletion criteria, or if the promised explanation is not provided very soon."
 * Being on AFD does not render an article immune to speedy deletion if it qualifies. See any day's AFD archive.
 * The article Lion Ambassadors, when I deleted it, did not contain any information whatsoever on how the club is notable. Even a claim of notability would have made the article immune from being speedily deleted.
 * From the list of pages protected against recreation, "In cases where pages of inappropriate or unencyclopedic content are continuously re-created after several deletions, it becomes prudent to protect these pages in a deleted form." Please note that there is nothing about acting in bad faith. I have not and do not allege any such conduct.
 * If the reaction you get whenever you open a discussion is "delete, delete, delete", then it is very likely that the content you wish to include is, in fact, not deserving of an encyclopedia article. The best place to try to establish a guideline on notability of clubs is by creating a discussion at Notability (clubs) or a similar page, and linking it at Template:Notabilityguide and/or Template:Cent so that it appears for discussion.
 * I hope that this helps, and once again I am sorry that you feel insulted. Stifle (talk) 13:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

(This is in response to your comment on my talk page.) No problem, I understand your frustration. I think the main problem was that the article really didn't make any claims of importance about the group. If the article asserted that the organization was the most noteworthy organization at the university (for some reasonable definition of noteworthiness—organization size, perhaps), and provided a reliable source for this claim, that might count as an assertion of notability, and the article might avoid speedy deletion (although many editors take a laxer view of the criteria for speedy deletion than I do), but even then, there's no guarantee that the article would survive an AfD debate. Much better would be a citation of significant media coverage, at least by local media outlets. —Caesura(t) 13:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Nittwits
Since the article on Lion Ambassadors, a part of Penn State that many Penn Staters are familiar with was deleted, I'm considering putting Nittwits, an organization a lot of Penn Staters haven't heard of, back up for afd. Thoughts? --Jtalledo (talk) 17:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. I think I'll hold off on an afd nomination since most of the Big Ten appear to have articles on their cheering sections and the article has some citations that help verify its claim of notability. I cleaned it up a bit for tone. I'm still not convinced that it's still notable though - I'd be on the fence if someone decided to afd that and most of the articles on cheering sections. Thanks again. --Jtalledo (talk) 18:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Gibraltar: RfC on Gibnews
Hello, Burgas00 has opened a RfC on Gibnews. Please check it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FGibnews

--Panchurret 08:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

User page looks like Main page
Ho ho, I see you got in there on that idea before I did. Well done! &mdash; SteveRwanda 19:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Italy beat France
Hi Spangineer,

Thanks for changing the ITN comment back to 'beat'. Would it be possible for you to add a comment above that line, informing people that this is the correct British form, to avoid random people changing it again without realising there's a debate? Cheers &mdash; SteveRwanda 15:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Request for copyedit
Hey! It seems like you comment/edit the FACs a lot and have some helpful advice, so I thought I'd ask you if you'd be willing/have the desire to copyedit the Duke University article. It is a current FAC but someone has opposed it requesting a "throrough copyedit from someone unfamiliar with the text." Anyways, if you'd be up for it, I'd really appreciate it, but if not, I'll understand since university articles can sometimes be boring if you don't have a personal connection to the particular institution (I think this article is interesting though!). Let me know. Thanks! -Bluedog423 16:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Tomorrow would be just fine. Thanks! I eliminated lots of external links already. Now there are only 6, excluding the maps template links. -Bluedog423


 * Wow, looks great! Although I see that you are probably not quite done. But I really appreciate the time and effort you have taken to go through the article in detail, especially eliminating extraneous wording/phrases and just overall making things clearer and more consise.  I just have a few questions: 1) I see that you replaced the quotation marks and apostrophes with different versions.  Why is that?  I don't really notice a difference on the actual text, is there one? I see a clear difference when looking at the difference through history.  But was just curious about that.   2) Why is it necessary to use  &mdash;  instead of just a normal dash?  I used    (nowiki command used incorrectly? see edit) between the number and units as well, but wasn't sure why it's necessary.  Is that just wikipedia policy? What's the advantage?  Also, the TOC was shrunk because of an aesthetic objection that there was too much white space, but that's not vital.  I just saw your objection and comments and will attempt to fix those now. Thanks again! -Bluedog423 03:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok can you do the same with Selena which is in FAC, a copyedit. Please Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 20:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

content removal
UN have also passed many other Resolution which have been defied by isreali goverment on the backing of US so US HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO IMPOSE UN RESOLUTION ON OTHER WHEN ITSELF DEFIES THEM AND encourages it's pets to do the same.and hezbollah is not a terrorist organization according to international law. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yousaf465 (talk • contribs).

Thank you for your interest in The Pilgrim's Progress
I am entering text mannually, but I am constantly checking for spelling. I agree that it might be a good idea for a modernized version. I put in the modernized version, but I am slowly going through it to provide Bunyan's original spelling and punctuation. I guess that it would be OK to keep the biblical references in the main text. We could put the marginalia in footnotes. I would think that we should stick to the marginalia that is original with Bunyan. Your thoughts would be helpful on this. Thank you for your interest.--Drboisclair 16:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Eric Bana article
Hello. I know you are probably a busy person, but I was wondering if you could do a a run-through the Eric Bana article to help remove bad prose. Tony had placed his objection here due to the article's bad prose and would like a different editor other than myself to go through it and fix a few things. The changes that you had made earlier were very well done and any help you can offer would be wonderful and greatly appreciated. Thanks! -- Underneath-it-All 14:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you! -- Underneath-it-All 18:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I will go back and work on the Miranda Otto article next! Looking over it again I see it still needs a lot of work, but I can see it one day becoming a FAC. -- Underneath-it-All 01:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Ahmedabad FAC
Hi Spangineer - I've addressed your points (I think). Please take another look at the article - if there are any other outstanding issues, please let us know so we can fix it asap. Cheers, Rama's arrow  21:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi again - I've fixed the fresh points you've raised. Rama's arrow  22:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi - no need to get testy. I wasn't attempting quick fixes, but you see, I think that the prose is good. While I've asked for help from other copyeditors, I need you to give me more specific clues as to the problems you want solved. Rama's arrow  16:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi - I'm replying here to avoid cramping the FAC discussion. I thank you for elucidating exactly how the prose is wrong - it is very helpful to us that you took the time to do that. I know you can't be expected to re-analyze and ennumerate each issue, but we were left lacking for a real idea of what you were driving at. Now I agree with you and I will copyedit the article accordingly. Early on, you seemed to suggest that we needed to rewrite the whole article, so I was unconvinced as I felt that the prose was acceptable for an FA. I did find your comment a bit testy, and I'm glad we could understand each other better. Thank you for your help - you're an ace in this business! You're dealing with fervent admirers! Rama's arrow  20:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

writing guide
Well, thanks for your kind words, Span. I'll consider this, but I think I should finish the article and exercises first. Because it's very incomplete, I haven't even provided a link to it from the FA criteria page.

BTW, would you mind having a look at my my four exercises in sentence length? They're an offshoot from User:Tony1/How_to_satisfy_Criterion_2a in the main article.

Do they work technically on your computer? (One person complained of distortion.)

Do they work in educational terms? (I wonder whether they're too wordy.)

Tony 15:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I've just had a proper look at the Rhetoric thing. I don't like it. FAR too technical/jargonistic, and not practically oriented. To allow people to acquire skills, you have to use the hide and show method, preferably with hints. Tony 16:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, is that why university textbooks left me with a blank feeling? Most of the lectures did, too. I guess I've wanted to construct a training system for good writing for some time, but have lacked a computer application that would enable me to do this. WP supplies this system, and the urgent need for it. I can't help feeling that it will be of wider use than WP, although it's oriented towards WP's specific needs at the moment. (Got to hit the sack now.) Tony 17:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

My AWB changes
Hi there.

No, I don't just hit save without reading - of course not! I don't change direct quotes, or proper names of organisations etc. However, last night I was obviously not careful enough, and not reading all the paragraphs in context. As you can see, a couple of others already pointed this out to me.. and they're perfectly right of course. My edit to Operation Auca was done last night. Today I (hope) I have been a lot more cautious. Actually I was in the middle of re-editing the article in question, to revert the edits and clarify them - then I tried to save and found you have been reverting it at the same time :) I have edited again, but with clarity too. I hope the new version is okay with you. If you take issue with any of my other changes please do let me know: as I say, I am being a lot more cautious now to ensure that none of the meaning is lost or changed, but it's good that other people are watching. Thanks. EuroSong talk 17:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I do understand what you're saying. I don't know anyone who says "fixed-wing aircraft" to refer to the flying vehicles in question. However, as can be seen from the FWA article itself, on an international Wikipedia sometimes compromises have to be made. The fact remains that the word "airplane" simply does not exist in British English - except exclusively to refer to the film "Airplane!". I can't speak for how "aeroplane" is received in the USA, but I'm guessing that similarly, it is not used at all. I consider this as actually a deeper issue than simple spelling differences. I mean, British people see "color" all the time, and recognise it because they're used to it. Probably Americans don't see "colour" so often, but still: it is a relatively minor point, and everyone is aware of such differences. However, when it comes to different words for the same thing which are exclusive to each individual country, it can uncomfortably disturb the flow of reading the text, for someone who does not use such words. When I read a paragraph with "airplane", something jars inside me as not quite right.. and I'm not the only one. Since we only have one English-language Wikipedia, we have to share it. That's why I believe we should try to find international words which exist on both sides of the Atlantic, as a compromise wherever possible: even if such contrived terms as "fixed-wing aircraft" are nobody's first choice. Of course, the point about changing the meaning is another one altogether; and one which I have been made aware of :) EuroSong talk 17:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "wavelength-determined property of visible light" - made me smile :) Even though "fixed-wing aircraft" is definitely contrived, I don't see anyone actually having to look it up for the meaning. The word "aircraft" is common enough.. and is usually used to refer to the vehicles of the fixed-wing type, even though it can technically include other types.Well of course, there is a case to be made from both sides; about something jarring, or having to read a strange term. Of course, British people do understand "airplane" - probably to the same extent that you understand "aeroplane". However it's not just about that. In a formal, professionally-written encyclopædia, one does expect to read "stiff" language sometimes, where more colloquial language would be used elsewhere. For example in an encyclopædia I would not expect to read about "taking the tube from Leicester Square to Waterloo": I would more expect to read about "travelling on the London Underground system".. even though few if any people would actually use such language in everyday speech: they would simply say "tube". But in a formal encyclopædia one does expect to see non-colloquial, technically precise language. With the example in question, it's not just that "airplane" is not used outside the USA, but it's that in a professional encyclopædia it looks childish and out-of-place to non-Americans. I would understand if you don't understand this: after all, it is just a regular word in American English. But please believe me: outside the USA it does look rather colloquial, and one's in-the-head reading voice adopts a Redneck accent while reading it :) EuroSong talk 18:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not saying American English appears childish. "Color", "elevator", "sidewalk" etc... to British people they are simply American English. I don't know how to describe it better, but as I said: there is just something about "airplane" which sounds a little bit Hillbilly. I am not being elitist: of course one variety of English is not "better" than another. Such "objective" observations are not possible, since everything is really subjective. I was merely making a point about how this one single word sounds to non-American readers. Anyway: I do take on board your point, and will try to used the "fixed-wing" prefix as little as possible, while still maintaining the meaning. EuroSong talk 21:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)