User talk:Speedymarathon

Space bugs
Since you are an expert in the subject, you should be able to recreate the article with proper academic references to support it. The deleted text appears on the face of it to be about a neologism with no wikilinks, sources or evidence that this is more than something made up in an idle moment. If I'm wrong, it's open to you to recreate with proper references  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The key phrase is "credible claim". We get lots of "words I made up at school today" type articles, and while your article may not fall into that category, it needs more than just a statement that this is so to be credible. I'll put the text here shortly  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:02, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Drug therapy problems
Hello. Concerning your contribution, Drug therapy problems, please note that Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images obtained from other web sites or printed material, without the permission of the author(s). As a copyright violation, Drug therapy problems appears to qualify for deletion under the speedy deletion criteria. Drug therapy problems has been tagged for deletion, and may have been deleted by the time you see this message. If you believe that the article or image is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License (CC-BY-SA) then you should do one of the following:


 * If you have permission from the author, leave a message explaining the details at and send an email with the message to . See Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
 * If a note on the original website states that it is licensed under the CC-BY-SA license, leave a note at with a link to where we can find that note.
 * If you hold the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the CC-BY-SA and GFDL, and note that you have done so on.

However, for textual content, you may simply consider rewriting the content in your own words. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with our copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright concerns very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Thank you. Cassandra 73 (talk) 19:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry this is straight English prose, not "technical information that is defined by those exact phrases". There are also in the linked source credited to a specific author in a named work. If these "national guidelines" in these exact words are the product of the US Federal Government, then they might be in the public domain as a work of the US Government. However, if someone else wrote them, even as a government contractor, and they were merely accepted, approved, or adopted by a government standards agency, they would still be subject to copyright. If you think they are in the public domain, you will need to provide a source that fairly explicitly indicates this. At the very least a .gov site that has the exact words you wish to use.


 * Moreover, even if there were no copyright problems, a separate article on "Drug therapy problems" that simply quotes 7 very broad categories of problem and says nothing more would not, in my view, be a proper encyclopedic article for Wikipedia. Such an article would need to explain the various sources of problems, describe the consequences, etc. Wikipedia already has such articles as Drug, Pharmaceutical drug, Prescription drug, Pharmacology, and many others. Such information, if appropriate at all, would probably be better as a section in one of these articles.
 * Please do not try to reinsert copyrighted content into Wikipedia against the policy. Such insertions will be detected and removed. The deletion stands. If you really think that I was mistaken to delete this article, you may ask for a review of my decision at deletion review. DES (talk) 15:25, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I see that, despite the careful and detailed explanation given above by DESiegel, you have decided to go ahead and re-create this article, this time under the slightly different title Drug Therapy Problems, including copyright violation. If you continue to do this you will be blocked from editing. In addition, the current version of the article says "Drug Therapy Problems are used in the practice of Pharmaceutical care provided by Pharmacists to achieve optimal drug therapy", which makes no sense. Presumably this is not what you meant to say, in which case you may like to correct it, if it has not once again been deleted as a copyright violation. In the meanwhile it is proposed for deletion because it seems to make no sense. JamesBWatson (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm busy and I really don't have time to discuss this, if I was talking to you in person for his long I'd probably charge you over $100. That being said let me explain the situation. The article that you said I was copying this from, took my wikipedia page and COPIED IT! In case you aren't aware monilu.com is a wikipedia syndicator, that is it reposts new wiki articles. Then you say I used copyrighted information because I have what they copied from my page. You then go on to say that "I'm sorry this is straight English prose, not "technical information that is defined by those exact phrases"." I'm sorry are you a doctor on the subject? How do you know that? I actually am a doctor and have studied it for over 8 years, then you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about? These specific phrases have been picked nationally and perhaps globally because they summarize the point and everyone can have the same definition.

You continue to say ":Moreover, even if there were no copyright problems, a separate article on "Drug therapy problems" that simply quotes 7 very broad categories of problem and says nothing more would not, in my view, be a proper encyclopedic article for Wikipedia." key words being "in your view." Well how much do you know about pharmacotherapy "in your view"? Have you stuided the subject? Drug therapy problems are the foundation of providing pharmaceutical care. These problems cause over 10 million preventable deaths in the US. I'm sure being the fundamental foundation of a particular area of medical study and involving 10 million people isn't worthy of an article though. If you want I'll just quote an article I wrote myself on my subject. I have lives to save, I'll come back and add more later.

Speedymarathon (talk) 17:49, 27 January 2010 (UTC)speedymarathon


 * Speedymarathon is correct about monilu being a Wikipedia mirror. SM, if you'd like I or another admin can restore the text of your article so you can work on it. I can understand it's frustrating to have your work removed suddenly, but we do of course have to take copyright violations (which Wikipedia gets a huge volume of every day) seriously. In this case DES was mistaken about the copyright, but hopefully you can understand his motivation.
 * Does one of the sources you gave, or another you have access to, mention the fact that the seven phrases have been 'nationally chosen'? If so then we could explicitly say so in the article; that might be helpful to readers. Olaf Davis (talk) 18:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I've restored the text of the article here so you can work on it, Speedymarathon. You may want to address James's comment above as a first improvement. Olaf Davis (talk) 18:52, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I apologize for failing to spot that the page I quoted as a source was in fact a Wikipedia mirror, which was in fact copying the page from here. I should have detected that.
 * I still maintain that the article, in the state it was when deleted, did not provide sufficient information to be useful as an article here, though of course any page can be expanded, and it might be a useful basis for an article. I am not a doctor, although I am reasonably knowledgeable about medical matters for a non-doctor. I note that the article as you posted it cited "Shargel,Leon. Comprehensive Pharmacy Review 7th Edition p. 563" Was the text quoted directly from that source? or paraphrased? If quoted directly there is still a copyright issue here, unless this is presented as a quotation. I quite agree that drug therapy problems are important and the subject is worthy of coverage here. My doubt was whether a simple list of 7 general kinds of problems, without further explanation, is sufficient to be helpful to people. As Olaf Davis says above if this specific text has been adopted as a national standard, saying so and citing a source to verify this would be a good idea. I apologize for seeming abrupt -- had you left the above msg on my talk page or notified me of it I would have responded sooner. We get a lot of people who copy text from web pages and assume that because they found it on the web they can post it to Wikipedia. I'd be happy to work with you, if you wish, to expand and improve the article, or you may, of course work with another experienced editor here or on your own. DES (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding, I accept the points that you made on how it could be improved and when I get the time I will add the information. You made some good points and I will try to include the national references as well as appropriate source references. You said you wanted to work with me DES and I would appreciate that. I will keep you informed on any updates either here or the talk page. Thanks for your work guys. Speedymarathon (talk) 20:09, 27 January 2010 (UTC)speedymarathon
 * Thank you for understanding. As an admin I'm supposed to double check before speedy deleting a page and I fell down on that part of the job. I'll be happy to work with you. I can advise on formatting and Wikipedia standards, procedures and customs; I'm pretty good at that. I also think my writing isn't bad. I obviously can't match your medical expertise. Please drop a note on User talk:DESiegel to get my attention and I'll respond as soon as i can after I see it. Please understand that, from painful experience, Wikipedia bends over backwards to avoid anything that even looks like copyright infringement -- its a hot-button issue here, almost like wound infection to a doctor. (See WP:COPYRIGHT for more detail.) If you make changes to the article or leave a note on the Article talk page that you'd like me to look at, you can use the tb template on my talk page, or just drop a note there. Note that although i have offered to work with you, and I am an experienced editor here, i have no veto powers nor rights of approval or censorship. You do not require my approval or anyone's to make edits, and as long as they don't violate policy the worst that can happen is some other editor changes them or undoes them. (You might also want to read about ownership of articles -- we don't do it.) My advice my be helpful -- I will try to make it so, but I am only one editor. If another editor disagrees with you or changes your work in a way you think incorrect or ill advised, it is normally better to discuss the matter on a relevant talk page. If you are having trouble with any such situation, or want advice, please feel free to drop me a note and I'll see what I can suggest. I'll try to be as helpful to you as my endocrinologist is to me. DES (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi again Speedymarathon. I see you've made a good start on expanding the article. I'd also be very happy to give you a hand - shall I have a go at 'wikifying' some of the formatting for you? Regarding the list of seven categories, how about the following wording to absolutely escape any possibility of copyright confusion:
 * The original eight problems have now been condensed into seven categories of problems. As given by Shargel, they are:
 * 1. "Unnecessary drug therapy". This could occur when...
 * I'll echo DES in saying that while Wikipedia occasionally seems a little paranoid about copyright, it's with good reason! Anyway, let me know what you think and if there's anything with which you'd like a hand. Olaf Davis (talk) 15:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ive blanked that bit of the article for now - feel free to restore it from the history and include appropriate citation if you do get round to working on the article again. Olaf Davis (talk) 15:19, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you For the ideas and edits DES and Olaf. I have made changes and put additional ideas in the discussion of the page. If there are no objections I will revert the article to Wikipedia from my page. If you still see important changes that need to be made please feel free to make them and to put the reason why in the disscussion. Thank you again. Speedymarathon (talk) 19:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Drug Therapy Problems
A tag has been placed on Drug Therapy Problems requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. DES (talk) 18:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

We still don't accept copyrighted content, as explained above. The online "references" you added do not appear to support any particular statements in the "article" I am copying them below, in case they are useful to you in creating some proper article on this or a related subject. DES (talk) 18:53, 26 January 2010 (UTC)


 * http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/abstract/30/2/119


 * http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12952316


 * http://www.ashp.org/s_ashp/docs/files/advocacy/policy_alert/MN_MTM_1_14_08.pdf


 * http://eprints.usm.my/9696/1/DRUG_THERAPY_PROBLEMS_AND_QUALITY_OF_LIFE_IN_PATIENTS_WITH_CHRONIC_KIDNEY_DISEASE.pdf