User talk:Spinboy/Archive 2

Universities and colleges
Is there any particular reason that when I corrected the spelling of "Universities" in the category link on University of Alberta, you changed it back to "universites"? Bearcat 03:24, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Jarvis Family
For Votes for deletion/Jarvis Family you've voted to keep, if it's expanded. It would be very good if you could demonstrate that it could be expanded; I would probably even change my own delete vote to keep I've suggested some material on the VFD page. Mozzerati 20:22, 2005 Feb 14 (UTC)

Cumberland Ontario
Hello, no this isn't about Bob but about your Cumberland move. According to this site, Cumberland was an incorporated city. As far as I know, it was probably a "municipality" in name only, and officialy considered a city. Earl Andrew 07:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

CTF & CCLA
Hi, thanks for your kind words on my talk page and for noticing that I'd forgotten to include the external links to the official sites of the CTF and CCLA on their respective pages! I also wanted to mention that I've created a Canadian government watchdog category akin to the one already existing for the USA and have added both to it. Thanks and take care, Kurieeto 16:46, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Just a little bit of thanks for voting to keep the articles on Ike Awgu and Donna Upson. :) Earl Andrew 19:09, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

CUSA
Interesting, are you a student at Carleton (it doesnt say on your user page). I dont know much about CUSA, I should have kept some copies of the Charlatan newspaper from a week ago because they explained what roles CUSA has. Earl Andrew 05:25, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm a CU student. I think our best look for answers is at the CUSA website. Earl Andrew 19:01, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Hello, and thank you for welcoming me to Wikipedia. In your letter you suggested that if I ran into a problem I could ask you about it, so I will take you up on your kind offer.

I created a page for the music group The Need, which should have a few pages linking to it. Yet, when I click on 'What links here', the response I get is 'no pages link here'. I've created a few other pages and this has never happened before, so I'm stumped as to what to do to fix this problem. Perhaps you could suggest something?

Thanks very much for your help and, since I'm not particularly adept at the use of the computer I'll apologize in advance if this message doesn't show up at the bottom of your page, as per your request and as I intended it to. Its just blind luck if I get things right! TheEmissary --TheEmissary 20:36, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Canada stub Templates
Why did you revert Template:canada-bio-stub and Template:canada-stub, stating that it is vandalism? If you haven't seen my edit summary, here it is: rm metapicstub/metastub - Why?. This change does not affect the template's functionality and helps improve performance. This is hardly vandalism. Unless you have some compelling reason to keep using the metapicstub template, your changes will be reverted.--jag123 19:29, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Removing categories
Spinboy, I'm new here, but I'm wondering why you removed the categories from several categories, namely, Universities in Alberta, Universities in British Colombia, etc (see the Uncategorized Categories special page for the rest). Since they are on the Uncategorized Categories list, shouldn't that mean that they need a category? Or if, as you state, "other categories already exist", shouldn't they be put on the Categories for Deletion page?

I'll be happy to either nominate them for deletion or revert the changes, just let me know what you'd like to do. Thanks. Kbdank71 21:45, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I'll nominate them today. Kbdank71 14:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Buddhism to Quakerism
You asked "I'm curious from your user page, how does one go from Buddhism to being a Quaker?" Wow! Great question. Pull up a chair.

I was raised Christian. Evangelical. Knocking on doors and street-preaching and the whole nine. I left in my late teens and basically got turned off Christianity in general. But I'm a very spiritually interested person.

Buddhism was a great fit from the start. Therevada Buddhism doesn't say whether there is or isn't a god. Or whether there's an afterlife. They consider it largely irrelevant to the primary mission of Buddhism: reducing human suffering. I'm still a Buddhist, and I don't intend to stop. Quakerism is traditionally Christian, but isn't necessarily Christian, and there are plenty of non-Christian Quakers. It's a lot like Unitarianism, but with a strong emphasis on pacifism, and with their odd silent services. (Everyone sits on a pew for service, and no one speaks unless someone is "inspired" or "moved by the Spirit". Sometimes a whole hour will go by with no one speaking.)

Anyway, that's the short answer. Thanks for asking! – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 14:21, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Star Wars MUSH
There was a consensus, the vote was to delete. --Spinboy 17:26, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it doesn't appear that way to me. Feel free to renominate it.  dbenbenn | talk 17:51, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I counted. 5 votes to delete, 3 to keep. That means it should be deleted. I put the vfd tag back on the page so an admin can delete it. --Spinboy 18:01, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * So did I, of course. I also read the comments.  I agree that the discussion was vaguely leaning towards "delete", but it isn't what I'd call consensus.  Again, feel free to renominate it.  To do so, simply move Votes for deletion/Star Wars MUSH somewhere else (I suggest Votes for deletion/Star Wars MUSH/first nomination).  By the way, the reason we require a clear consensus to delete is that it's so easy to renominate.  dbenbenn | talk 19:56, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

tally thing
Please, please do not add these scoreboards to WP:VFDs. They're misleading and make it harder, not easier, for the votes to be closed. Please see the discussion at Templates for deletion. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 20:33, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you tell User:GRider about this please? He likes them I notice. Thanks. --Spinboy 20:43, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I have. Several people, in fact, have.  Our complaints, so far, have fallen upon deaf ears, which is why I was a bit short with you above (for which I apologize). &mdash;Korath (Talk) 20:51, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

PrideVision/OUTtv/etc.
Strange how much the PrideVision press release differs from the text of the actual CRTC decision rendered last Friday. And yeah, it is the same application, given the refs to 6166954 Canada Inc. and William Craig. I don't even know where to begin trying to figure out what the CRTC's doing if that's not what PrideVision applied for... Bearcat 00:19, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No...according to Google, it seems that PV is actually going to be renamed HARD on PV. My best guess at this point is that PV applied for "617" originally, and then changed its mind about how it was going to brand the channels. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened, I have to admit. Bearcat 00:43, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough; I wasn't disagreeing with you about OUTtv becoming the general interest channel. That's quite clear in the PV press release. I just meant that according to what I can find, 617 isn't actually the new name that PV's all-porn channel is going to be using. Bearcat 00:50, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Enh, they'll probably just file a license amendment later. I'm pretty sure that's been done before. And thanks for the heads-up, I just disambiguated WC now. He's going to be my next article; it looks like he actually has some notability even independently of PV/OUT. Bearcat 01:04, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Template:NB_Uni
Please see my contributions to the talk page there. St. Thomas University (New Brunswick) is in fact public. I knew that for a fact and then it took me TWO MINUTES to find proof on the web. I am sorry if the above seems like flamebait but I am little shocked/annoyed that you would change that template based on a whim and on what your gut had told you due to some vague language on the STU site despite all of the evidence to the contrary. - Jord 17:36, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Stargate SG-1/Stargate SG·1
I thought it would be more accurate to use the show's title as seen onscreen, which utilizes the dot between the SG and 1, and then not the alternative more common spellings. But, I'm not picky about it. I guess we should guy buy the common usage, and not the anal-retentive usage. :) --Lenonn

VfD on C-38
Think anyone will figure out that the 90-day period is designed to get us past the actual vote so that the article will be a report on an event that's taken place? ;-) Kevintoronto 18:18, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * So what do you think of the proposal to transwiki this to the Wiki Voters' Guide? It sounds like a reasonable approach to me (with a link from SSM in Canada article), but I am hesitant to break ranks in the case that there is some pitfall I haven't figured out. Maybe I should propose transwikiing all of the Star Trek/Star Wars /Nintendo articles to somewhere else. That still kind of riles me that we have to defend articles on minor party candidates and on smeothing like this when there is so much scifi and other cruft around. Kevintoronto 16:29, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Canadian Courts
Thanks for bringing the error to my attention. Like so much, it's a work in progress. I'll try to fix that when I can. Cheers! -- PullUpYourSocks 21:06, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage in Ireland
I notice that you have reverted my redirect of this page. I don't agree with your reason Same-sex marriage *WAS* debated in Ireland (what are your sources) and I have posted my reasons for redirct on the talk page. Please comment. (I have attempted to format them as a numbered list, but they do not appear correctly for me, apologies if they are difficult to read) -Rye1967 00:04, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

McGill University Entry Standards
I did not, in fact, revert your entry on entry standards at McGill. I watered down the original sentence to say "among the highest entry standards in Canada," which is wholly uncontroversial, because "high entry standards" does not really mean anything unless it is positioned relative to something else. That said, the original statement that McGill has the highest entry standards in Canada, is not POV but based on results on results from the NSSE. Kalanga 20:50, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * NSSE (National Survey of Student Engagement) on entry averages. I have no qualms with not saying that McGill has the highest entry standards because that probably won't be true every year, but saying that they are among the highest is reasonable. Kalanga 21:12, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * NSSE is national (American) in name only. It includes all of the Canadian universities with which McGill competes for that title. Kalanga 21:25, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand your comment. The survey contains data about the entrance averages of the top universities in Canada. Among the entrance averages of Canadian universities, McGill's is the highest. How is it relevant that the survey also contains information about the entrance averages of American universities? Kalanga 01:42, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Spinboy, you have reverted my change once again. That McGill has "among the highest entry standards in the Country" is ostensibly true and yet you insist on replacing it with "high entry standards," which is meaningless. While I have been reasonable in compromising to "among the highest" from "the highest" (which has been empirically shown) you have not even presented a rationale supporting your reversion. Please explain yourself. Kalanga 05:12, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wiki meet-up
I got an email saying you RSVPed "yes" to an Ottawa meet-up this coming Saturday. Considering I am the only other one who RSVPed yes, I was wondering if this is still a go. Thanks, Earl Andrew 17:11, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I was thinking about letting the other Ottawa wikipedians know as well. It's up to you if we should cancel, I am free as far as I know. Earl Andrew 20:34, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Got your note about the Meetup, unfortunately I am out of town this weekend. Has one of these been held before? What usually goes on? - Jord 21:02, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Not to my knowledge. Anyways, here's a list of all the Ottawa users I could find:


 * User:SimonP
 * User:Mendel
 * User:Jord
 * User:Dpm64
 * User:Cafemusique (Arnprior)
 * User:Big Iron
 * User:Dunro
 * User:Korivak
 * User:Dze27
 * User:Nyxie
 * User:Simon South
 * User:Padraic
 * User:Steve Rawlinson
 * User:Vanke
 * User:Mikepelley
 * User:Lacerta
 * User:Tranquileye
 * User:Rossgk
 * User:RealGrouchy
 * User:Cambyses
 * User:Joshuapaquin
 * User:JN
 * User:Red Star
 * User:LeeHunter

Why don't you take a look here: Meetup - Earl Andrew 22:34, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * How about the French wikipedia? How is your French? - Earl Andrew 22:39, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Je n'ai parle pas francais beacoup bien :-p (I apologize if any French people had to read that) - Earl Andrew 22:46, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, I was able to find 2 people using the french wiki, and they both have English wikipedia pages:

- Earl Andrew 23:10, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * User:VicFromTheBlock
 * User:Staatenloser


 * Ou est le sign up? - Earl Andrew 00:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Fun fun. Are all the details at the meetup site? -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 04:39, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Just making small talk. What exactly will we be doing? -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 05:55, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Yessiree Bob, I have MSN: ******@hotmail.com & I have AIM: **** ********


 * Note: I used *'s where the real info was, to protect Earl's identity and prevent spam. --Spinboy 06:08, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd love to go to an Ottawa Meetup, but Easter Weekend is no good. Will there one for April? Padraic 17:13, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the invite. I am interested in Ottawa but I can't make it to any meetings since I currently live in South Korea. I wish you luck in your plans. Peregrine981 03:40, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)


 * I did live in Ottawa until quite recently, explaining the pics. I'm happy to sign up for the Ottawa wikiproject. Good idea. Peregrine981 03:48, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

BC Liberal Party
Please explain why you just undid the move I did at this article. violet/riga (t) 22:35, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The discussion ended with no significant objections, as per Requested move policy. I agreed with the proposal and thus moved it. violet/riga (t) 22:47, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You objected because a redirect is good enough - not a significant objection. If you had given further reasons then I would've taken that into consideration. Now, could you please expand and explain why you object before I go and move it back? violet/riga (t) 23:08, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Distance Learning
Hello, you just corrected a link I added to 'distance learning' marking as vandalism (sorry for not being logged in). I commented about it in the related talk page. User:tresoldi

Thanks for the resources
Thanks for the help.David R Alexander 07:03, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Personal attacks
Please avoid saying things like this. Wikipedia has a policy of no personal attacks. Thanks. &mdash; Matt Crypto 14:21, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

spinboygift.jpg
Aww! Thank you. Maybe I should make up a Star of Samaritan (...too vain?) or something to give out to people similarly... Samaritan 14:13, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage in Canada
Was there any particular reason for removing the redlink to the Canadian Family Action Coalition article? &mdash; Saxifrage | &#9742; 00:06, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough reason. I'm a bit of a redlink inclusionist, but not so much as to contest the removal of a borderline case with such an innocent motive. (I didn't know they were borderline, either, since I've been avoiding all but the Parliamentary news on the subject.) Cheers! &mdash; Saxifrage | &#9742; 00:27, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

Fathers' rights
You wrote:
 * You went and put an NPOV tag on the article, you really ought to leave a message on the talk page as to why you are disputing it's neutrality. --Spinboy 06:59, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The reason that I didn't do so is that anything I could say on that subject has already been said by others on the Talk page. Further, my other edit summaries list specific POV statements that were embedded throughout the article. I'm not sure why you put a 3RR tag on my Talk page, since I did not engage in any reverts at all - I removed content from the article that was hopelessly POV, I did not return it to an earlier version. Since you requested it, I will leave a note on the Talk page stating why the NPOV tag was inserted. Firebug 07:14, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration request
The case you requested relating to User:Violetriga has been rejected by the arbitration committee. Please see Requests for arbitration/Rejected requests. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 23:27, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Gift
That is so sweet! Thank you so much! It is great way to inaugurate my new Wikipersonality. It is really nice to be recognized. Ground Zero 22:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

issues over school articles
In November 2003, there was a VfD debate over Sunset High School (Portland). The debate was archived under Talk:Sunset High School (Portland). What to do with the article is still being contested and has been recently re-nominated for VfD at Votes for deletion/Sunset High School (Portland).

I am writing to you because you have participated in such debates before. There still does not exist a wikipedia policy (as far as i can tell) over what to do in regards to articles about specific U.S. public school. My hope is that a real consensus can come out of the debate, and a real policy can take shape. Take part if you are so willing. Kingturtle 02:19, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
You didnt give me a chance to thank you for the SSM link. Gracias! -- Earl Andrew - talk 06:10, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Did you block me? -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 06:51, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Laurier University
Thanks for deleting most of that huge list of external links on the Wilfrid Laurier University article. I didn't have the guts to do it. --NormanEinstein 20:40, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Referring to students' unions
Hi. I'm working on the University of Waterloo Federation of Students article. I'm curious for your opinion: should we refer to using "it" or as "they"? It's tempting to use "they", as the name does have an s at the end, but I think that using "it" is more correct. What do you think? Revived 23:45, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

General complaints
Spinboy, I am surprised and disappointed that you decided not to try to resolve this issue with me on the BC MDM Talk page, and went to the General complaints board instead.

Nonetheless, I do want to resolve this with you, and will do so through that forum. I have posted a link to it at Canadian wikipedians' notice board in the RfC section so that we can get other views.

I will abide by what other Wikipedians decide on the issue of whether or not descriptions of political parties' platform belong in the articles. I have no desire to get into a revert war with you. Ground Zero 14:02, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So about almost a week has passed, and there has been no response to your posting on General Complaints despite the note I posted on the Canadian notice board. I think we are going to have to look at other ways of resolving this dispute. Dispute resolution recommends seeking the advice of a third party. I would suggest User:Samaritan, who has been an active editor of Canadian political pages and has a stated interest in helping people resolve disputes. Do you have any suggestions?

On the particular issue, I still do not understand your objection because you have not explained to me in what way information about a political party's platform violates "Wikipedia is not a soapbox". I have explained how I believe that what I posted and then edited to try to reflect your concerns does not violate that. I also note that if your absolutist approach is to be applied evenly, then we would have to remove a lot of the useful content in articles about libertarianism, communism, fascism, social democracy, liberalism, conservatism, socialism, social credit, Marxism, Maoism, and so on that identifies what those movements stand for. That would be a real loss to this encyclopedia, and it would set it apart from other encyclopedia that identify what political movements and parties stand for.

I would like you to consider the following elements of Wikipedia etiquette that I think you should keep in mind during this debate. (Well, debate on my part, it seems to me that you've largely been just reverting.)

Writers rules of engagement


 * Don't ignore questions.
 * If another disagrees with your edit, provide good reasons why you think it's appropriate.
 * Concede a point, when you have no argument against it. Declare when your disagreement is based on intuition or taste.
 * Work toward a resolution
 * When taking issue with another editor, do not say "this is obviously not a …". Bear in mind there may be alternative explanations.

Wikiquette
 * Don't ignore questions.
 * If another disagrees with your edit, provide good reasons why you think it's appropriate.

Avoiding common mistakes
 * Deleting useful content. A piece of content may be written poorly, yet still have a purpose. Consider what a sentence or paragraph tries to say. Clarify it instead of throwing it away. If the material seems miscategorized or out of place, consider moving the wayward material to another page, or creating a new page for it. If all else fails, and you can't resist removing a good chunk of content, it's usually best to move it to the article's "Talk page", which can be accessed using the "discussion" button at the top of each page. The author of the text once thought it valuable, so it is polite to preserve it for later discussion.
 * Deleting biased content. Biased content can be useful content (see above). Remove the bias and keep the content.
 * Deleting without justifying. Deleting anything nontrivial requires some words of justification in the edit summary or on the talk page. If the justification is presented on the talk page, you can simply write "See talk:" in the edit summary box.

I will post on Talk:British Columbia Moderate Democratic Movement another attempt at addressing your concerns. I look forward to your response. Ground Zero 13:00, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I really regret that you refuse to be reasonable and follow Wikipedia procedure and etiquette. I cannot accept your decision to say "It isn't allowed because I say it isn't, and I won't explain why." That isn't good enough reason to delete content. This is not Spinboypedia. Ground Zero 17:27, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I withdraw that last remark. It was not appropriate. I request that you stop accusing me of using Wikipedia as a soapbox. Ground Zero 17:34, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.


 * Please note especially the part about discussing your changes with others. Ground Zero 17:51, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So... I've added the new Platform section to the article, but the tag is still there; it's of course still up to you how you want to pursue that... Samaritan 20:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the kind words about my modest edits. Hey, Mason's my middle name! ;-)    &mdash; J M Rice 19:20, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Category:Quebec CEGEP
My changing of category from Quebec CEGEP to CEGEPs for Heritage College (Gatineau) and Service régional d'admission du Montréal métropolitain, but to the inappropriateness of the category name. The category actaully being at CFD, btw: Categories for deletion/Log/2005 April 23.

Discussion at the QWNB have outlined that the category should be plural, since it is not thematic, but will list establishments (see category:Universities in Quebec). Additionnally, it is inappropriate to have "Quebec" in the name when the institution is unique to Quebec.

So please, do not revert these two oarticles and category:Quebec CEGEP on the base of vandalism. I apologize in advance if this has appeared in any way rude. Circeus 23:14, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

CSA template
Sorry about the faulty edits on the CSA template. Nothing intentional, looks like I just put a "?" in the wrong place and didn't notice. - Haunti 12:23, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks! - Haunti 19:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup Taskforce Procedure
Please follow the correct method of adding items to the Cleanup Taskforce as instructed on the Cleanup Taskforce page. --Randy 17:11, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * With the short method, you put the items in the queue, not the actual subpage list. --Randy 17:18, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * In the edit this page view, it says:
 * ===== In queue =====
 * <!-- Put a link below this message to an article that you think we could help clean up with what you think needs to be done and your signature.
 * <!-- Put a link below this message to an article that you think we could help clean up with what you think needs to be done and your signature.

For example, if you thought that the article on Wikipedia needed to be rewritten you would add:
 * That is where you add new issues. --Randy 17:30, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the Welcome
Well, thanks! I've seen these welcome messages on other Wikipedian's talk pages and wondered if someone would at some point add one to mine. It only took a little more than a month, too! --Kamoranakrre T. Eyaelitenan 02:27, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

GLBT categories deleted
Hi, Spinboy. I encourage you to visit Categories for deletion/Log/2005 May 7. (Wikipedia really needs a GLBT noticeboard for stuff like this.) Jonathunder 04:27, 2005 May 8 (UTC)


 * Inspired by Jonathunder's idea, I have created a LGBT noticeboard. Please take a look.  -- Samuel Wantman 07:11, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Transitway Pictures
Go right ahead. - SimonP 16:53, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Image:Billings3.JPG is also fine to use - SimonP 21:01, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Good site, also feel free to use any other pictures I might take of Ottawa transit. Also did you know that a fellow Wikipedian, User:Montrealais, operates, a similar site devoted to Montreal transit? - SimonP 01:31, May 14, 2005 (UTC)