User talk:Stamptrader

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Thanks
Thanks for fixing up the Quantum Theory cast entries. -AngusWOOF (talk) 17:35, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * I'll second that. When I reply to peoples' messages about ReferenceBot notifications at User talk:A930913, chances are you've already fixed the problem. Thanks a lot! Huon (talk) 19:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Citation of APweb
APweb recommends that it be cited as "Stevens, P. F. (2001 onwards)" (see the home page). Although this page goes on to give the citation as "Angiosperm Phylogeny Website. Version 12, July 2012", if you look you'll see that the header is actually "version 13". The website is indeed continuously updated, and as of now, the last update is given as "Page last updated: 01/28/2015 19:03:53". If you search the site there are references to papers dated 2015. So it's quite wrong to use "2001–2012" as the citation date. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:04, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I regret that the maintainers of the citation templates have refused to allow open-ended dates, as recommended by a number of important online sources, not just APweb.
 * There could be an argument for using the access year as the terminal year in the citation. However, this would, in my view, only be correct if the URL given is to an archived version. When the URL is to the current version, the citation should describe this version, and the only valid date is "2001 onwards".
 * My preferred solution is not to use the citation templates – just use plain text, when the correct citation can be given. Many pages have been "corrected" in this way.
 * The second best solution is just to delete the date altogether as it cannot be expressed meaningfully with the current citation templates.


 * I'd say the simple solution is to remove the date altogether, if a solution (beyond clearing errors, which was my only goal) is needed. It isn't a matter of expressing the date "2001 onwards" meaningfully, however, since there is no useful meaning inherent in an open-ended date.  One of the errors I fixed was on Solanaceae - the accessdate parameter used on that citation allows you to know that the reference was current up to 2007.  20 years from now that limit will still hold and you would know that nothing is implied about any validity from 2008 to 2035.  "2001 onwards" does nothing to help now or in the future - there's no way of knowing when the info was valid, other than "on some unknown date between 2001 and today".  A date / copyright range is bad but at least limits the possibilities - an open-ended date is worse and limits nothing, and in that sense is the equivalent of having no date at all.
 * In that regard, the correct solution is to go through the edit history on every page that doesn't include an access date, figure out when the citation was added and update the citation to show that. That gives a fixed date when the citation was valid.  But that's a large pain in the backside and I doubt anybody cares that much, given how long some of these errors have survived.  I removed the ugly red error text because that's what was bothering me enough - perhaps someday I'll be bothered enough about date ranges without useful meaning and will remove those too (or will pinpoint them down to an exact date). Stamptrader (talk) 00:02, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree. The access date is there to show when the source was consulted. The citation date is there to show when the source was written/published. The two dates have different purposes; that's the point of having two. As of now, all we know about the source that is linked (assuming that it hasn't been archived, as noted above) is that it was written and published from 2001 onwards. Being told this is not at all the equivalent of having no date. Knowing that the site started being written in 2001 tells someone knowledgeable a great deal (e.g. that it began by using the original APG system, published in 1998, not the later APG II and APG III systems). When the site ceases to be updated then of course a terminal date should be used in the citation date.
 * The red errors are caused by changes made to the citation templates without full consultation, e.g. through an RfC. Unless and until this is resolved, the best solution is to use the citation recommended by the author by using plain text. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:36, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Smallcaps in CS1
Why is the smallcaps parameter nolonger supported?User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:27, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently it's for compliance with MOS:ALLCAPS. See talk page discussions at Template_talk:Citation and Module_talk:Citation/CS1 for more info. Stamptrader (talk) 18:41, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * MOSCAPS does not say that it cannot be used in references, so that is a bad reason. I find it extremely frustrating that a couple of template editors make changes like this without consulting with the community and the content creators who actually use the templates. I know this is not your fault.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:00, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I am going to try to reverse the decision to deprecate small caps for author names by changing the MOS. So perhaps you want to stop implementing this for now, so we wont have to add all the smallcaps again if I succeed.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:38, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, I can hold off on further edits. But I see you now have a conflict with your list of changes to the all caps rules - the specific mention of Latin text is now both allowed and excluded. Stamptrader (talk) 13:54, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Nature of errors
Hi. I fear I may be repeating errors though lack of knowledge. What was the error in the parameters that you corrected in this edit? thanks. Nurg (talk) 08:52, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There are 30+ categories of CS1 errors that can pop up, but there are only 5 of them which have been marked by default as being not visible - you have to set code in a CSS stylesheet in order to see these hidden errors.  is one of those errors and that's what I've fixed on the page you show.  Help:CS1 errors is the help page for this specific error - in essence, you need to have a URL specified in your citation in order to use the accessdate parameter.  If you don't have a URL then accessdate will trigger an error.  It's a minor error, and since it's marked as hidden by default I assume you can't even see it.
 * If you dig back through the archives on Help talk:Citation Style 1 and Help talk:CS1 errors you can find repeated debates on this error. In fact, it cropped up again just 2 days ago.  I'm of the opinion that the extra accessdate parameter should simply be deleted, but others think it could maybe be a clue to a URL that once was included in the citation but has since been deleted.  They think that leaving the accessdate there could help somebody to find that URL later on.  There are 47,000+ errors in that category and I think this edge case is rare enough that it could simply be ignored (as I have been doing up to now), and in any case I doubt anybody is ever planning to go through the list to search for these potential URLs on the old versions of the pages.  But without data it's just another opinion, so I'm now going through pages in a pseudo-random fashion and actually testing out this "lost URL" edge case.  I'm expecting to find a very small amount of success, probably 2% or less, but I'll wait until I've been through 500 pages (maybe 1000, we'll see how long it takes) before I post my findings. Stamptrader (talk) 10:00, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have now added the code to my CSS stylesheet. Nurg (talk) 23:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I just learnt something new! Thanks very much for this explanation and tidying up my references on Aleen Cust. I'll be mindful of not making this mistake again :) thanks again Smirkybec (talk) 15:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You're most welcome, certainly - glad to be of help and thanks for the positive note. Stamptrader (talk) 17:21, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

For my own notes, my accessdate error data findings have been posted at Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 7.

CS1 error fixes
Hi. I just noticed that some of the CS1 error fixes you have been doing are not quite right, though I want to take a closer look before getting into any deep discussions. Until we can discuss this, would you consider slacking off a bit? At least on the Global Warming articles. I'll try to get back to you on this in a couple of days. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing you're referring to Attribution of recent climate change, one of the random pages for which I fixed some errors the other day. I noted in the edit summary that having no title= parameter in the citation template and placing the reference to it in a harvnb template has caused CS1 errors.  My fix was just meant to clear errors, which I why I also mentioned in the edit summary that further work would probably be needed to clean it up correctly.
 * The citation method that had been used was this, causing a missing title CS1 error:
 * , in.
 * I removed the missing title error message this way (I probably should have used both chapter= and chapter-url= rather than keeping it the way it was) - now that there's a title= parameter in use, the title is italicized and the element order is changed, however:
 * , in.
 * Trying to use the harvnb template in the title= parameter solves the missing title error, of course, but I figured that was probably too far away from how the original editor was trying to make things look:
 * If the requirement is to keep the same text order & format seen in the original citation without generating a CS1 error, then I expect the citation will have to be written freehand. I don't think there's a way to make it work as desired using the citation template.
 * IPCC, "Summary for Policymakers", Understanding and Attributing Climate Change, in.
 * Stamptrader (talk) 09:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * If the requirement is to keep the same text order & format seen in the original citation without generating a CS1 error, then I expect the citation will have to be written freehand. I don't think there's a way to make it work as desired using the citation template.
 * IPCC, "Summary for Policymakers", Understanding and Attributing Climate Change, in.
 * Stamptrader (talk) 09:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * IPCC, "Summary for Policymakers", Understanding and Attributing Climate Change, in.
 * Stamptrader (talk) 09:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's what I'm looking at. (Which I reverted, pending a better resolution.) There are a couple of points of confusion we need to straighten out, particularly regarding "title". It should be noted that the general context here is the IPCC's 2007 Fourth Assessment Report ("AR4"). This (like the other ARs) consists of four "reports" from the three Working Groups plus a Synthesis Report. Each of these four reports is a work, in that they are comprised of chapters (or "contributions") of separate authorship. So there are multiple levels of citation. E.g.: IPCC > AR4 > WG1 > [some chapter].


 * The approach here is to cite the chapters in detail, with a link to the citation with the details of the containing work. . E.g.: Le Treut et al., "Chapter 1" [...], in IPCC AR4 WG1. This avoids having to repeat a lot of redundant detail. What you will notice is that "IPCC AR4 WG1" is not a proper title; it is a succinct identifier that links to the full citation for that work. As such it properly follows the citation of the chapter.  (Particularly as the Harv template should not be used inside of a citation template.) Also (please pardon me for being a bit pedantic here, but it does make a difference), the title of a chapter contained within a work should go into the chapter parameter, title being reserved for the work. Also, note that the various at parameters, which you shifted into chapter, do not reference/link to chapters, they link to individual sections.


 * So back to the original problem: the new error messages now emitted by CS1. I very much doubt that "freehand" (i.e., removing the templates) is necessary, which would also be very objectionable.  However, fixing that is going to take some looking into. I'll let you know what I find. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 00:20, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If you find a method of clearing a missing title CS1 error using any sort of citation template without populating title, let me know about it, please. I don't think there's anything except for the case of journal set while using a magic word none (and without chapter set, since that would cause a further CS1 error).  Again, I think these citations without title set will need to be written freehand to make them look like they used to.  I note that 5 other "Summary for Policymakers" citations are already written freehand in that article. Stamptrader (talk) 11:20, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "Freehand" would be massively unacceptable, existing instances being evidence not of acceptability, but of the inconsistency and poor quality of many of those citations. But I am confident something can be worked out. (If nothing else, I will go back to the CS1 coders and complain about the error.) I'll let you know what I find. Hopefully you are okay with leaving IPCC citations alone for the time being? ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:40, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sure, I can hold off on further editing of these citations. I don't know if you'll have much success in trying to revert the changes to the citation templates, though - there was a specific intent to address the former lack of an error message if title had been left blank.  See the CS1 talk page archived here. Stamptrader (talk) 08:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I was just looking at that. I've started a new thread at Help talk:Citation Style 1. Don't worry about the GW articles, I'll take care of those (eventually); they have other problems I might as well fix while I'm at it. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Sir
For your citation correction in Kalyan, India Ankush 89 (talk) 14:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! Stamptrader (talk) 14:46, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Corrupted references
Please be more careful when you edit references. You stumbled onto some references in After School Nightmare that where corrupted with [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=After_School_Nightmare&diff=next&oldid=594560432 this edit]. Generally except for minor edits such as date format changes you should treat reference edits as re-referencing ie. checking the references, looking for needed replacements, adding Dead link, etc. Any references that you can not fix properly should either be left in place or taken to the article talk page. – Allen4names (contributions) 00:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Aum Shinrikyo
I don't understand the errors you corrected at the Aum Shinrikyo article. It seems you only removed the authors name and accessdates on two citations and the format parameter on another. Would you explain the error? I've reverted for now. Thanks. JodyBtalk 22:21, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The four accessdate CS1 errors were due to a lack of a URL in the citation - this populated the article in . Further information on this particular error (not currently visible to users unless they have altered their CSS stylesheet) can be found earlier on my talk page at User talk:Stamptrader, in which I answer the same question from another editor.  Similarly, the format CS1 error is due to a lack of a URL in the citation - this populated the article in .  And the first and last parameters were cleared because they weren't author names - the Yomiuri Shimbun is the largest newspaper by circulation in the world, not an author by the name of "Shimbun, Yomiuri" as was originally cited. Stamptrader (talk) 05:56, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see now. I've been around here for years and had not seen that. Thanks. The author name was my error from reading a LexisNexis wrongly. JodyBtalk 16:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

When you're strange. Faces come out of the rain
Strange! I am not sure what happened. I clicked on thank you for your edit. Unlike what it usually asks, it asked me if I wanted to make it public. I clicked on Yes (thinking you must have set some switch I do not know about). I was thanking you for your edit not wanting to revert it! -- PBS (talk) 06:07, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

April 2015
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Shah Waliullah Dehlawi a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Cut-and-paste-move repair holding pen. Thank you.  Hut 8.5  06:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the notice - a histmerge tag has been added to Ivo Ferriani, an article I similarly cut & pasted about a year ago to fix a misspelling in the title. Stamptrader (talk) 06:56, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Redirects
Please refrain from doing redirects as you did here. All cap redirects do redirect to an actual page, but it look awful when it comes to PDF, since it appears all caps when you hower your mouse over. Worse of all such edits can't be undone, so please be careful next time. Thank you.--Mishae (talk) 00:41, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Please see Help talk:Citation Style 1 for the reason for this redirect, and Help talk:Citation Style 1 for the decision to capitalize the contents of the format parameter (the reason for the redirect). Updates to the CS1 module code are irregular but have been coming about once per month lately - the capitalization of parameter contents has been reversed in the sandbox and will go live the next time the CS1 module is updated, and   wikilinks will no longer be created by the CS1 module after the update. Stamptrader (talk) 01:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Which will be when?--Mishae (talk) 03:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * As mentioned, the updates of the CS1 module are irregular. There have been approx. 1 month intervals between the last three updates - the last one before that had about a 3 month gap without updates.  The last update was just made on Saturday. Stamptrader (talk) 03:28, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Lina Medina and CS1
Per your series pf recent edits, what is a "CS1 error" and what is the point of removing access dates inthis edit? They can be useful when a link goes dead, to find the version used at the Internet Archive, or to verify that some source said what the edit claims it did at the time it was consulted. Thanks. Edison (talk) 13:37, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The three accessdate errors were due to a lack of a URL in the citation - this populated the article in .  Further information on this error (not currently visible to users unless they have altered their CSS stylesheet) can be found earlier on my talk page at User talk:Stamptrader, in which I answer the same question from another editor. Stamptrader (talk) 13:45, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * (EC)I created a new section to contact you, but now I see the previous thread, and "CS1" apparently has to do with Help talk:Citation Style 1. No one but someone who follows such an obscure page would have a clue what "CS1" is. In fact I thought it said "CSI error" and that someone doubted the medical claims about Medina, childhood pregnancy. In your edit summary, could you link to the section of the talk page which explains what you are doing? It would eliminate some confusion. Thanks. Edison (talk) 13:47, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The editor who originally added the "access date" referred to 30 to 65 year old journals. They probably accessed them online and omitted the URL, since it would be odd to visit a research library, read old paper journals, and then add an access date as if the words on the paper might change. On the other hand, i have often seen news stories change while keeping the same date, at news websites. Please keep up the good work, but again please provide a clearer ref to the arcane page of Wikipedia which guided your edit, so that when it pops up on someone's watch list it is less puzzling. Note that three experienced editors have found the edits puzzling, and a clearer edit summary would have saved everyone some time which could have been otherwise invested in the project. The edit summary is an explanation to others, not a "note to self." Regards. Edison (talk) 13:56, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * There are and another  - pages often contain errors of multiple types and I'd be spending three times as long writing error summaries as I would fixing errors.  It will be vastly more time efficient to simply answer questions as they come.  Also, see Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 7 for links to a history of the endless discussion of this error and my justification for dealing with it as I do. Stamptrader (talk) 14:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * When you say "I'd be spending three times as long writing error summaries as I would fixing errors." you are basically saying that your editing time is MUCH more precious than my editing time or that of the other editors who have contacted you.   A better edit summary than your cryptic "CS1" would have prevented much wasted time. Please abandon the view that your time is more valuable than that of other editors who are puzzled  by your cryptic edit summaries, and who have to waste time figuring out what is the point of your edits. Even well-intentioned edits may become disruptive when you waste the time of other editors and dismiss their suggestions.  Regards, Edison (talk) 04:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * If you Google the term "CS1 error", the first hit is Help:CS1 errors. I don't see this as being a difficult puzzle for anybody to solve. Stamptrader (talk) 05:59, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

accessdate and indirectly-specified URLs
Hi, Stamptrader. I think this relates to the discussion immediately above ("Lina Medina and CS1").

The CS1 template is generating spurious accessdate errors when the URL is specified indirectly, through a parameter such as  (and based on your Lina Medina edit discussed above,  ). I've opened a discussion at Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 8. I've partially reverted one of your edits here.

If you're making similar edits on other articles (and it looks like you are), please add the  parameter using the value that is indirectly indicated via the   or similar parameter, rather than losing the access date, which is important citation information. See, e.g. here.

Thanks! TJRC (talk) 16:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It looks like you're making hundreds of these edits, perhaps with an automated tool. Can you please hold off until the issue can be addressed at the template level?  If you have an automated means of reverting the edits, that would be great. TJRC (talk) 16:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't use a tool for editing - all my edits are done by hand (and they aren't limited to accessdate errors, I go through all CS1 error categories). As noted above, Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 7 contains links to a large number of previous discussions regarding the accessdate errors, and it's been noted multiple times in the past that the accessdate parameter is superfluous for such identifier-based parameters as doi, jstor, pmid, etc.  These identifier-based pages retain content without changing and the accessdate parameter is not needed.
 * In the specific case of your jstor example, if jstor.org were to fold and live URLs were no longer available, it wouldn't be possible to use the Wayback Machine to retrieve any JSTOR pages because nothing can be archived - "Page cannot be crawled or displayed due to robots.txt." (See ). The same is true for bibcode, pmid, pmc, arxiv and who knows how many other less-common object identifiers.  I don't know what the case is with doi, I only get a blank screen when searching for archived pages associated with a DOI identifier. Stamptrader (talk) 00:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

For my own notes - the most recent affirmation of the lack of need for accessdate parameter usage in citations without URLs but with identifier-based parameters is found here. Stamptrader (talk) 09:24, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

cs1 error? in Cleveland Abbe
You "fixed" a cs1 error on this page concerning the number of editors and the display-editors argument. I am not sure I see the error or the rational in what you did. I did change it back, but also did add the display-editor=et al as there officially were more editors than I listed. If this is the only point that you were attempting to fix, np. Otherwise, please let me know what it was, as I am not seeing the problem. Thanks speednat (talk) 18:13, 7 May 2015 (UTC)


 * This article had a CS1 error which caused it to populate the category.  Older versions of the citation template rendering code would only permit a maximum of four editor names and when that restriction was removed, every existing instance of a citation with exactly four editors was placed in this error category - each reference needs to be checked to find out whether there were in fact exactly four editors (in which case the displayeditors parameter needs to be set to 4) or whether there were more that are missing due to the former lack of editor name space in the template.  The front cover of the book in question shows an editor-in-chief and 2 senior editors in one type size, and 4 editors, 1 associate editor and 1 assistant editor in a smaller type size.  It makes sense to either list 1 editor (editor-in-chief) + et al. or 3 editors (include the senior editors) + et al.  But 4 editors + et al. is arbitrary; if you include one editor from the next sub-class then the other 3 out of that sub-class should also be included, at which point you'd have 7 editors + et al.  I chose to limit it to the first 3. Stamptrader (talk) 07:43, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Fair enough/good point. I went ahead and added that last class "editors" of editors. speednat (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Removing editors
Why are you removing editors from citations? This reduces their accuracy and hence value. If the list of editors is incomplete, it should be completed, not reduced. Please stop. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Those articles were populating CS1 error category . The list of editors is now complete. Stamptrader (talk) 07:05, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks
For the correction you made in to my source Swinslokw (talk) 16:57, 25 May 2015 (UTC) Swinslokw
 * You're welcome! Stamptrader (talk) 17:02, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Per Holknekt
Please take a look at the articles about Per Holknekt and Oba Chandler. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:37, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

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