User talk:Standardname

xC | ☎  14:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

dissociative disorders
Hi.

I've noted you added links to Dissociative disorders in some articles. I was curious if the article did not exist already; I mean, in your copyedits it turned out red in the articles you edited because the second word ("disorders") should be small. Otherwise it appears red: Dissociative Disorders.

You may answer here or in my talk page if you wish :)

Welcome again to Wikipedia.

—Cesar Tort 14:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

> I've noted you added links to Dissociative disorders in some articles. I was curious if the article did not exist already

The article Dissociative disorders already existed, and was recently updated.

> I mean, in your copyedits it turned out red in the articles you edited because the second word ("disorders") should be small. Otherwise it appears red: Dissociative Disorders.

Apologies, I don't quite understand what this last question is asking me to explain. Could you clarify, please?

Thanks.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Standardname (talk • contribs)


 * I took the liberty to move your post here to avoid confusion.


 * "Apologies, I don't quite understand what this last question is asking me to explain. Could you clarify, please?"


 * It was not a question: just an observation. The first letter of a second word in an article is usually (not always) written in small letters, as "disorders" above. Just a minor issue. Don't worry about it.


 * —Cesar Tort 22:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Cesar Tort, thank you for the observation, you may well be correct as I noticed words spelt in lower-case, in some articles. I hope to check this more thoroughly sometime. Thank you. Standardname 01:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Cesar Tort, the article seemed quite wordy, so I changed 'Dissociative Identity Disorder', 'Dissociative Disorder', 'Borderline Personality Disorder', 'Post-traumatic stress disorder', to acronyms 'DID', 'DD', 'BPD', 'PTSD' to simplify it. Let me know if you think this should be changed back. Thanks. --Standardname 22:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Structured Clinical Interview
You seem to be adding links to SCID to a large number of pages. This includes some pages where it has very little relevance. Please consider adding information only where it is directly relevant.--Limegreen 03:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I'm sorry, but I must agree with the comment above. Linking to SCID from an article as broad in scope as medication, for instance, is not very appropriate. I have reverted most of these edits; please do not be discouraged from contributing, but please try to make such additions to articles where they will be more relevant. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 03:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Many of the reverted edits omit extremely useful information. For example, the page "Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV" contains 'DSM-IV' as part of its title and therefore, 'SHOULD' have the link to DSM-IV Codes, which I added, and has since been removed.

The omission of links to DSM-IV Codes and Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV results in the omission of relevant information to people with mental health problems. For example, people with mental health problems, such as dissociative disorders and Dissociative identity disorder, are often misdiagnosed because of little awareness of Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV (and DSM-IV Codes) and, as a result, are NEVER cured!

Now that you have removed the links, many people will continue to NEVER be cured. Standardname 23:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As I stated above, the links may be added, where they are relevant. They remain, for instance, in dissociative identity disorder, and I have reinstated your last addition to Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV. By the way, you are welcome to expand these articles if you wish. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 23:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Fvasconcellos, thank you for the message. Could you reinstate the additions to DSM-IV Codes, please? This is very important, as many people frequent the article, and there seems to be INsufficient information for people, without these additions. I am unable to reinstate the additions, because an administrator has blocked me, because of these additions. Examples of RELEVANT additions are:

1) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders ... The relevant link DSM-IV Codes, is an acronym for the page title Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders version IV;

2) DSM-IV Codes ... The relevant 'http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=2375', is to information about 'Dysthymic Disorder', which is no-where else found in Wikipedia;

3) DSM-IV Codes ... The relevant 'http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=3357', is to information about 'Posttraumatic Stress Disorder', which is no-where else found in Wikipedia;

4) DSM-IV Codes ... The relevant 'http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=9381', is to information about 'Somatization Disorder', which is no-where else found in Wikipedia;

5) DSM-IV Codes ... The relevant 'http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=3974', is to information about 'Borderline Personality Disorder', which is no-where else found in Wikipedia;

... etc, etc, etc.

Also, as far as I'm aware, I received NO warning and therefore, couldn't correct any unaware mistakes I was making!

Much appreciated.

StandardName


 * I will review your edits to DSM-IV Codes and contact the administrator who blocked you. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Fvasconcellos! Much appreciated. Apologies for any inconvenience I may have caused. I only joined Wikipedia a few days ago, and am still learning the rules. Thanks, Standardname


 * You're welcome. I'm afraid I can't really see the relevance of the above additions, as psychiatryonline.com is restricted to subscribers, and the article already has a link to the DSM-IV-TR website; sites requiring payment/registration are normally to be avoided. You have been unblocked, by the way. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Fvasconcellos, I only just logged on and read your message. I didn't realise Psychiatryonline.com is restricted to subscribers as, I only read the free excerpts on those pages. As the DSM-IV-TR website doesn't seem to provide free excerpts (unless I'm mistaken, I could only see details of changes in DSM-IV, on dsmivtr.org), would it be okay for me to reinstate the free excerpts at links such as the following? http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=3357 Standardname 21:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Quite honestly, I still don't think linking to these excerpts adds that much. Others may, of course, disagree; I recommend that you bring this to the attention of WikiProject Psychology and WikiProject Medicine. If there is a specific article you would like to add these links to, you may ask at its Talk page instead, but WikiProject Talk pages are usually good places to get feedback. Best, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Fvasconcellos. Standardname 19:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Agenda driven edits
You edits are clearly agenda driven and violate WP:POV fairly consistently. Kindly think before editing. --DashaKat 20:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear DashaKat, Thank you for the message. I only replaced text which had NO substantial evidence, with EXTRACTS from psychiatric and medical articles WITH evidence. D.I.D. was doubted by lay-men/lay-people, and there is psychiatric and medical evidence for the existence of D.I.D., of which I added references to psychiatric and medical articles. HOW CAN MY EDITS BE AGENDA DRIVEN, WHEN THEY ARE ALL EXTRACTS FROM PSYCHIATRIC AND MEDICAL ARTICLES? Standardname 22:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear DashaKat, I can understand it may come as a shock to you that there is evidence for DID, because this hasn't been discussed as much in the popular media, only mainly in psychiatric and medical papers. I hope you will be okay with me reverting back to these psychiatric and medical extracts, let me know if you have any objection with this. If I do not hear back from you within the next hour, I will continue with the extracts from psychiatric and medical papers. I hope this is okay with you. Standardname 23:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Standard...I'm on board with you. I'm a medical professional, and well aware of the evidence that you are using to support your edits.  You are going to come up against very stiff resistance from DreamGuy, who, along with being a certified imbecile, is a control freak who thinks he owns this topic.  Best of luck.  Sally forth.  --DashaKat 22:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you DashaKat, due to misinformation on the internet, I doubted D.I.D. existed, until I saw the evidence. Standardname 19:50, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Tossing off some more personal attacks isn't going to get you anywhere, and encouraging this guy to push his extreme POV won't get anything except him more likely to be banned (see admins giving him warnings below) and you more evidence of your harassment of other editors for your own POV-pushing goals as well. DreamGuy 00:04, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Stop immediately
I see you totally completely and utterly changed the controversy section of the DID article without discussion and are completely advocating the entirely false and biased claim that there is no controversy. You need to stop editing that article immediately, as the talk page has overwhelming evidence that there IS controversy, so you are working against the comments of multiple editors here. Based upon your prior major edits I was curious if you were aiming for something of this nature, and I see now you have finally gone way ofver the line. You need to read and follow the WP:NPOV policy and not try to use Wikipedia as your own soapbox. DreamGuy 22:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear DreamGuy, Thank you for the message. I only replaced text which had NO substantial evidence, with extracts from psychiatric and medical articles WITH evidence. D.I.D. was doubted by lay-men/lay-people, and there is psychiatric and medical evidence for the existence of D.I.D., of which I added references to psychiatric and medical articles. WHERE ARE THE PSYCHIATRIC AND MEDICAL ARTICLES TO BACK UP THE CONTROVERSY? Please could you revert my edits back in, please. Standardname 22:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear DreamGuy, I can understand it may come as a shock to you that there is evidence for DID, because this hasn't been discussed as much in the popular media, only mainly in psychiatric and medical papers. I hope you will be okay with me reverting back to these psychiatric and medical extracts, let me know if you have any objection with this. If I do not hear back from you within the next hour, I will put these extracts back. I hope this is okay with you. Standardname 23:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That was not merely listing medical articles, it was removing any and all content you personally disagreed with. If you do revert back it will get undone ASAP by myself or someone else. You know that it IS controversial... there's a whole other article here on the fact that it is controversial. And one side saying there is evidence doesn't mean you can ignore the other side saying there isn't. There have been professional, scholarly publications from scholars saying it isn't real, and to claim otherwise is just wrong. The extent of the POV-pushing you are trying to do here is off the scale. Please, again, go read WP:NPOV before making any further edits. Your resistance to this fundamental policy of Wikipedia makes me question all of your earlier edits. 23:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear DreamGuy, thank you for the message. The controversial articles were written by lay-men and lay-people who have done NO psychiatric or medical research. I read WP:NPOV, and it says extracts must be 'published by reliable sources', and all my extracts are publishers of psychiatric or medical papers. I'm not ignoring any psychiatric or medical articles saying there isn't, but where are these articles? I can't see any. There seems to be none. I hope you will be okay with me reverting back to these psychiatric and medical extracts, let me know if you have any objection with this. If I do not hear back from you within the next half hour, I will put these extracts back. I hope this is okay with you. Standardname 23:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not how things work. You KNOW this is not OK with me, and not OK in general, and that you are being completely irresponsible. You do not get to say "if I don't hear back from you in x amount of minutes I'm going to do whatever I was warned not to do." NPOV says reliable sources, but it does not say go through and present only one set of reliable sources and only the one you agree with and horribly slant the article.


 * And your "lay people" argument doesn't fly here, because not all the people editing are as inexperienced as you seem to think, and inexperienced people CAN still edit assuming they get real sources and not slant the article. Furthermore, you seem to just assume anyone who disagrees with you must be an idiot who knows nothing about the topic, and I can assure you that is not true. DreamGuy 07:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear DreamGuy, you've removed many of my extracts from psychiatric and medical articles, please could you put them back: WP:NPOV. I know more about the subject than most people who added unsubstantiated 'popular media' text about the incorrect controversy, that's why no-one has disputed ANY of my edits on D.I.D. before today. Thank you. Standardname 23:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * First off, that's false, as I did go through and change some of your earlier edits. No one disputed MOST of your edits BEFORE because they weren't POV pushing before... Although some of them may have very stealthily done so and were missed in the sea of edits you were doing. Now that your agenda is more clear I am sure we will start going back through old edits of yours with a fine toothed comb. I already saw some problem areas in there, and those will be undone as well. Furthermore, the fact that articles exist for one side doesn't mean that other reliable and scholarly sources for the other side can be ignored. That's so completely an abuse of the WP:NPOV policy that it's one of the worst I've seen in a while, and I've seen a lot. DreamGuy 07:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Please don't edit war on D.I.D.
Hi, Standardname. I understand your good intentions, but please don't try to change the article by simply putting back the same edits over and over. That's not the way disagreements are solved here. It's all right to boldly make a major change in an article once, but if that change is reverted, you should take the disagreement to the talkpage (this is the talkpage of D.I.D.) and try to get consensus for your changes, before putting them back in the article again. Please see Edit war. Best wishes, Bishonen | talk 23:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC).


 * Dear Bishonen, thank you for the message. I improved and corrected WRONG text according to WP:Deletion_policy: "content not verifiable in a reliable source", with text WP:Citing sources, WP:Verifiability: "-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals".


 * DreamGuy had no right to remove my text WP:Citing sources, WP:Verifiability: "from journals and books published in university presses", as he did not follow the WP:Deletion_policy, as all my text is WP:Citing sources WP:Verifiability.


 * I privately discussed the matter with DreamGuy, and said that if he had any objection with me 'undo'-ing his revert, then could he either let me know or back up his text WP:Citing sources, WP:Verifiability, he did not respond and therefore, I assumed he was not able to back his edit up.


 * I know more about the subject than most people who added unsubstantiated 'popular media' text about the incorrect controversy, that's why no-one has disputed ANY of my edits on D.I.D. before today.


 * Please let me know why DreamGuy can remove my text AGAINST the WP:Deletion_policy, and why I am not allowed to add text WP:Citing sources, WP:Verifiability, thank you. Standardname 00:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Bishonen, as DreamGuy removed my text AGAINST the WP:Deletion_policy, can I reinstate my text now WP:Citing sources, WP:Verifiability ? Standardname 02:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The deletion policy absolutely does not prohibit removing text from a page like that. You need to reread that page. Though, the funny thing is, I find it odd that you found it so fast and managed to start abusing it for arguments to try to support your violation of WP:NPOV. If you'd actually read the thing you'd know it doesn't say what you claim it says. I don't know if you are just amazingly aggressive in trying to find support for your side that you misread the contents (though that would be hard to do, as the page specifically ENCOURAGES peopole to edit out bad material on a page), or if you are a diehard wikilawyer out to abuse policies to try to defend yourself. You sure did jump in out of nowhere and try to take control, ignoring previous discussion on the articles. Have you used another user account here before? Your edits seem familiar. DreamGuy 07:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * See Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators "Note also that the three key policies, which warrant that articles and information be verifiable, avoid being original research, and be written from a neutral point of view are held to be non-negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editors' consensus": my edit covers all this and therefore, should be held non-negotiable. Why, after my text covers the three key policies, is it still NOT non-negotiable? Standardname 03:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You are completely misinterpreting policy here... the information proving you wrong when you claim there is no controversy was also verifiable, but you deleted that, and stating straight out that there is no controversy and that the DID exists to fill the DSM up with diagnoses or whatever is hugely original research (and wrong), and NPOV is amazingly, off the scale violated by your edits. All three of those things prove you wrong. Your aggressive arguing here is also off the scale. You operate like someone who has been trying to abuse policies for years. DreamGuy 07:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:3RR
Be really careful of this. It counts even if you believe someone is breaking policy, and in particularly counts if you are involved in a content dispute as appears to be the case. --Merbabu 02:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Merbabu, why have you mentioned WP:3RR when I am just discussing, and have not made further edits? I understand from Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators "Note also that the three key policies, which warrant that articles and information be verifiable, avoid being original research, and be written from a neutral point of view are held to be non-negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editors' consensus": my edit covers all this and therefore, should be held non-negotiable. Why, after it covers the three key policies, is it still NOT non-negotiable? Standardname 03:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * But you HAVE made further edits, and your edits do NOT follow those rules, and your edits certainly are NOT non-negotiable... in fact they are outright prohibited. DreamGuy 07:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear DreamGuy, 1) why did you revert (and remove) my additions, considering "Mere disagreement is not such proof" Revert?; 2) regarding Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators and my sources to journals/articles published by universities, which of the 3 policies do you consider not upheld, and why? Standardname 17:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Let me say it another way, irrespective of any other policy or reason, WP:3RR needs to be heeded to by every editor. I'm not saying you or anyone else has or hasn't broken this or any other policy. It's just a reminder. --Merbabu 07:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Merbabu. Standardname 01:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Re: your question about adding quotes and pre-posting on the Talk page. I do not believe that there is any specific policy or protocol regarding this, although I am not one to ask.  I believe that you should edit as you see fit, as posting to the Talk page before editing (1) enables the idiocy regarding this article, and (2) puts you in a subordinant position to other editors, which you are not.


 * The problem editor in question uses semantic Aikido to accuse others of POV while pushing his own POV agenda. You've only been here a short time, and, although some of your work is suspect in terms of POV, it is, by and large, evidence grounded and appreciated.  I've been fighting this battle, on this page, with this editor for more than 3 years.  You're not going to get anywhere, as it's Sysiphian in nature and, frankly, the guy's an ass.  Just keep doing what you're doing and up the academy, mate. --DashaKat 10:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi DashaKat, after 3 years, you must be exhausted; I'm exhausted after just 2 weeks! My only concern is I may be blocked for adding further academic excerpts, I'll sort this out. Thank you for the advice. --Standardname 15:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Last warning
Good heavens, look at the history of D.I.D. now..! After my message above, telling you you can't edit the article any more before getting consensus on the talkpage, plus my edit summary stating that "You need to use the article talkpage before editing anymore, or you risk being blocked", and Merbabu's reminder to "be really careful" of the  the three-revert rule,  I see you've edited the article 22 more times, without going near the talkpage, and put a lot of policies into your edit summaries. I'd better make myself clearer, then. I'm an administrator. I'm familiar with our policies. I or another admin will block you if you edit the article again without first discussing and getting consensus for your changes on the talkpage. Please read the three-revert rule carefully. Bishonen | talk 09:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC).


 * I second this last warning. Given the fact your indefinite block was lifted only because you claimed to be new and promised to follow policy and work with the community, if this behavior continues, I will reinstate the indefinite block.  You obviously have more experience than you claimed since you are mis-quoting policy all over the place and violating the three revert rule while trying to justify it.  I would be happy to work with you to clarify you understanding of Wikipedia's policies and discuss how the community works, or you might look in to getting a mentor who can help you before you find yourself asked to leave the project. Shell babelfish 12:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Bishonen and Shell, why were my additions originally allowed to be reverted (and removed) by DreamGuy, considering "Mere disagreement is not such proof" Revert?


 * Dear Bishonen and Shell, According to Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators, "Note also that the three key policies, which warrant that articles and information be verifiable, avoid being original research, and be written from a neutral point of view are held to be non-negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editors' consensus": my additions covers all this and therefore, should be held non-negotiable. Why, after my additions covers the three key policies, is it still NOT non-negotiable? Standardname 12:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

The point is that several editors disagree with your interpretation of the additions. You believe that your material is warranted, they do not. Used the ideas at dispute resolution to resolve the dispute you're having over content.

The policy that you are referencing is about our article deletion guidelines and how to determine consensus for those discussions; it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your current situation. When someone removes your changes, your next step is to use the talk page of the article or their talk page to find out why and work out your differences. Quoting policy which doesn't even remotely apply to your situation in an attempt to violate multiple policies on reverting and editing conduct will just cause you to be blocked from editing. Shell babelfish 17:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Bishonen and Shell, please could you answer the following question, as I asked you it before, and have not yet received a reply, thank you. Standardname 17:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Bishonen and Shell, why were my additions originally allowed to be reverted (and removed) by DreamGuy, considering "Mere disagreement is not such proof" Revert? Standardname 17:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We are answering it. The guideline you refer to is talking about our deletion discussions such as WP:AFD and as such has absolutely nothing to do with deleting content from articles that is in dispute.  Therefore, since the guideline does not apply to your situation, what DreamGuy did is not covered under the clause you are citing. Hope that helps. Shell babelfish 17:54, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing
I'm wondering if you could give me an idea how many people need to disagree with you before you consider that you might be accidentally misunderstanding the way things work on Wikipedia? Canvassing people who you think are interested in "edit warring" to try to get some kind of sanction again DreamGuy isn't helpful. Instead of spending all this time trying to get back at another editor, perhaps you should use the talk page of the article to discuss your edits and why you think they should be included in the article. Screaming Wikipedia policy at people, removing comments from your talk page calling them personal attacks and generally being rather rude to other editors isn't working. Please take some time to reconsider your actions. Shell babelfish 15:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell, thank you for the message.


 * As you threatened to block me for a second time, on the issue of editing in article Dissociative identity disorder against policy at this link:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AStandardname&diff=147654195&oldid=147633167


 * And you requested in the message above, "... perhaps you should use the talk page of the article to discuss your edits and why you think they should be included in the article...", I've added the discussion in the article Dissociative identity disorder's discussion page, and would be extremely grateful if you could back up your reasons for the WP:3RR warning to block me, in the article's discussion on the issue at this link:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dissociative_identity_disorder#.27Non-negotiable.27_and_.27Mere_disagreement_is_not_such_proof.27


 * I look forward to your response.


 * Thanks, Standardname 17:11, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Since warning you for violating the three revert rule and cautioning your that your editing and civility issues would lead to a block does not pertain to the content of the DID article, it would be inappropriate to post such information there. However, I am happy to respond to the question; you were warned about being blocked because you behavior is currently incredibly disruptive, incivil and policy violating.  Please see the details about blocking at WP:BLOCK for more information.  You might also wish to review the other policies people have been steering you towards.


 * By the way, when I mentioned discussing your edits on the talk page, I meant explaining what you wanted to change about the article and making a logical argument for its inclusion. What you did was tell people that removing it was wrong and violated policy; that's not quite the same thing.  Try to work with other editors, not against them. Shell babelfish 21:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell_Kinney (Shell), thank you for the reply.
 * You wrote, "Since warning you for violating the three revert rule and cautioning your that your editing and civility issues would lead to a block does not pertain to the content of the DID article, it would be inappropriate to post such information there"; I looked up your editing and civility issues links, both of which explicitly emphasise neutral point of view:
 * editing (i.e. links to WP:TE): "Tendentious editing is editing which is partisan, biased, skewed—in other words, it does not conform to the neutral point of view".
 * civility issues (i.e. links to WP:CIVIL): "Our Wikipedia community has by experience developed an informal hierarchy of  core principles — the most important being that articles be written with a  neutral point of view";
 * Considering you threaten to block me if I reinstate my reverted edits - which completely pertains to the content of the DID article - it would be completely appropriate for you to back up your reasons for cautioning on the basis of neutral point of view in the Dissociative identity disorder's article's discussion, which list the edits you object to, at this link:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dissociative_identity_disorder#.27Non-negotiable.27_and_.27Mere_disagreement_is_not_such_proof.27


 * As mentioned before, I look forward to your response on the article's discussion page.


 * Thanks, Standardname 22:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * User warnings and their discussions do not belong on article talk pages, period. I have clearly stated why your behavior was blockable and your continued rules-lawyering is frankly amazing.  Since you do not appear to have any interest in heeding the wisdom of editors quite a bit more experienced than you, I shall leave you to what promises to be a rather short and painful editing career.  Best of luck. Shell babelfish 02:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the heads-up about DreamGuy.  Martinphi  (Talk Ψ Contribs) 21:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:AIV
Please stop adding User:DreamGuy to WP:AIV. AIV is very specifically for simple and obvious vandalism, which this is not. You might be better trying dispute resolution here or taking it to WP:ANI if you must. Thank you. Will (aka Wimt ) 23:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Please stop this now. I have warned you that AIV is not the correct venue for your dispute. If you do so again you may be blocked for disruption. Will (aka Wimt ) 23:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not even a question of simple and obvious vandalism, as nothing I am doing comes anywhere near close to the definition of vandalism at all. It's just a POV-pusher abusing the system to try to force his way by harassment. DreamGuy 15:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Dear DreamGuy, you write that nothing you are "doing comes anywhere near to the definition of vandalism at all", so could you explain why so many users are discussing your actions in Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents since 21:48, 25 July?
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:DreamGuy
 * --Standardname 00:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

My talk page
You are banned from posting to my talk page, as it's clear that your only interest in posting there is to misquote policies (several admins on this talk page since you joined have tried to explain to you why your distortions of several policies are inaccurate, so it's not just me saying it) to try to harass someone you disagree with. Talk pages are for discussions intended to improve the encyclopedia, not by people using them to harass and bully. Any edits you make to my talk page from now on with be reverted without being read, and if you continue your harassment you can be blocked from editing. DreamGuy 15:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Continued edit warring on Dissociative identity disorder
You have been given many warnings about your revert warring on Dissociative identity disorder. Despite many editors suggesting that you work out your differences, you have not used the talk page to discuss your issues or try to reach consensus with other editors. As I've explained, disrupting the article by continuing to revert will lead to you being blocked. You have been given many attempts to reconsider your actions and seem disinclined to do so - please take this last opportunity to work within the guidelines of Wikipedia. Shell babelfish 17:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell, why do you say I haven't used the talk to discuss the issues? In Talk:Dissociative identity disorder I have used it 5 times, as seen here:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dissociative_identity_disorder&action=history


 * And here are a couple of responses to me trying to reach consensus with other editors:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADissociative_identity_disorder&diff=149824553&oldid=149786401


 * Standardname has brought up good points. Why has DreamGuy removed his/her edits without any suitable explanation aside from a rather useless and vague note about WP:NPOV? 66.82.9.82 19:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * And here is a user questioning DreamGuy's assertions that his non-academic edits should remain instead of academic sourced information:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dissociative_identity_disorder&diff=prev&oldid=148007130


 * Question: which policy do you believe prevents the removal of unsourced information? WP:V and WP:OR allow unsourced information to be removed, and instruct readers not to add unsourced information, but do not say that you should not remove unsourced information.  JulesH 07:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Could you withdraw the suggestion of blocking me, as DreamGuy should not be removing academic sources as seen in policies:


 * 'WP:Revert' "If they contain valid information, these texts should simply be edited and improved accordingly. Reverting is not a decision which should be taken lightly", and
 * 'WP:Verifiability' "Academic and peer-reviewed publications are highly valued and usually the most reliable sources",
 * 'WP:NOT'
 * WP:Vandalism "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia" (in reference to aforementioned policies and WP:V).


 * If not, are you supporting DreamGuy's removal of academic sources, and stopping me from reinstating academic sources? --Standardname 00:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Warning DreamGuy inappropriately and claiming that your edits cannot be changed due to your flawed understanding of policy is not using the talk page for discussion. Also, please note that other users can read history and talk pages, so misquoting JulesH to spin his comment in your favor does nothing to help your case.  If you continue disrupting the article and talk page, you will be blocked. Shell babelfish 03:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell, could you help me understand, please? How am I misquoting JulesH to spin his comment in my favor, when this clearly shows JulesH questioning DreamGuy, not me?


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADissociative_identity_disorder&diff=148007130&oldid=148005122


 * Could you help me understand, please? How is my understanding of policy flawed, when this policy states academic sources shouldn't be reverted?


 * 'WP:Verifiability' "Academic and peer-reviewed publications are highly valued and usually the most reliable sources"


 * Could you help me understand, please? How have I warned DreamGuy inappropriately? DreamGuy reverted over 7 academic edits within a 24-hour period against policy 'WP:3RR' - "An editor must not perform more than three reverts, in whole or in part, on a single page within a 24-hour period" - so I warned him:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADreamGuy&diff=149441707&oldid=149439415


 * Then DreamGuy asked me not to use his talk page, so where else can I warn him, but in the article discussion page?


 * Could you help me understand, please? How am I disrupting the article and talk page, when DreamGuy is the one who is breaking policies?


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:DreamGuy
 * --Standardname 04:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * JulesH asked what policy you thought said sourced edits could not be removed - since you are the one claiming this, I find it hard to understand how that would have been directed elsewhere.


 * That policy does not say they cannot be reverted, just that those types of sources are preferable to say a blog or some other less reliable source.


 * Warning editors on article talk pages is inappropriate; we went over this earlier.


 * Both of you are breaking policies - another editors misbehavior does not justify your own. Shell babelfish 14:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell, thank you for explaining, I now see what you mean. I honestly thought JulesH was talking ONLY about "the removal of unsourced information", and directing the question at DreamGuy, as JulesH's question immediately followed DreamGuy's discussion, and I assumed JulesH mistyped the first mention of 'unsourced information'. I will clarify with JulesH, as if it was NOT a mistype, then JulesH was talking about BOTH sourced AND unsourced information as JulesH mentions "unsourced information" all other times. --Standardname 17:39, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell, I prefer not to warn editors on article talk pages; DreamGuy asked me to stop editing on his talk page


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Standardname&diff=next&oldid=149783005


 * and this is the only reason why I warned DreamGuy on the article discussion page. I understand users can ban other users from their user page, but not their user talk page. Could you clarify this, please? I don't know how users are meant to communicate, if they are banned from user talk pages? Standardname 17:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

You're correct, its generally bad form to edit another editor's user page. User talk pages, however, are used to civilly communicate with other editors. So long as you are leaving constructive comments or appropriate warnings, it is unlikely that you would be sanctioned for adding a message on another user's talk page. Please note that DreamGuy may simply remove any messages you leave, which is acceptable, but these messages will be retained in the history of the page. Shell babelfish 18:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you Shell, that is very helpful. I didn't know who to clarify the policy with, and refrained from further warnings on DreamGuy's talk page in case I had misunderstood the policies again! I am fine with DreamGuy removing my comments, removing is an indication of DreamGuy registering the comment, which is my only interest. The only time I would reinstate a comment is if I had to refer back to it, such as giving a 2nd warning on top of the 1st, and DreamGuy could register it and remove it immediately. I have contacted JulesH to clarify JulesH's comment. Thanks once again. --Standardname 18:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Shell, discussions have progressed at Talk:Dissociative_identity_disorder with four editors, including myself. As DreamGuy is the only editor who seems to oppose the academic sources, and another editor telling DreamGuy "I'm finished dealing with... your lies,... and your distortion of comments" (see diff here), it is unfair that DreamGuy should have the monopoly to exclude academic sources. So I will reinstate the academic sources, especially as I think it important for health professionals to have access to up-to-date information immediately, including information on diagnostic tools, to diagnose and treat patients accurately, rather than misdiagnose patients with outdated information. Hope this is okay with you. --Standardname 01:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Standardname, I can understand that you want to move quickly on this article, although your method thus far has been counter-productive. Posting large blocks of text like this isn't helpful, especially when you do it nine times. It's cluttering up the talk page, and doesn't help resolve anything. The only way we'll get consensus is by discussing each issue individually, for which User:CloudSurfer is doing an admirable job. Absentis 00:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Absentis, if CloudSurfer is doing such a good job, then CloudSurfer should stick to discussing Manual of Style (medicine-related articles) (WP:MEDMOS), instead of distracting the discussion with new issues, and forgetting 'WP:MEDMOS'. We should stick to discussing Manual of Style (medicine-related articles) (WP:MEDMOS), brought up on 12 August 2007 at 02:50, and avoid getting distracted by new issues.
 * --Standardname 00:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Standardname- the editors there are trying to work on improving the article. There is no reason they cannot discuss whatever area of they article they see fit.  Please do not continue to post the same text over and over - what do you feel you will gain out of spamming the talk page like that?  Other editors will take you less seriously. Shell babelfish 02:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to clear something up that seems to be coming up a lot. Editors do not own or control articles, even if they are experts in the subject.  Any editor can edit an article in an attempt to improve it.  Please don't request that other editors stop editing articles or stop performing maintenance tasks like archiving talk pages.  Since you've spammed the DID talk page with the same text so frequently lately, the talk page has become large and unwieldy - it makes a great deal of sense to archive the page and concentrate the current discussions.


 * On a side note, has anyone mentioned the Adopt a User program to you? They match up newer editors with mentors to help them learn about Wikipedia.  Best of luck. Shell babelfish 22:47, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Edits on Dissociative identity disorder talk page
Pages such as Talk:Dissociative identity disorder are reserved for discussion about the article, not for asking this type of question. Try the Help Desk. Absentis 02:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

DID Archive
Archiving a page makes it no less accessible, only one link further removed. I'd have to disagree with your request. --DashaKat 15:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

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