User talk:StarkState

Making changes
Hello. I've noticed you have a great interest in articles related to Kent State University Stark. When making edits, please try and include a reason for them in the box provided just above the "save page" button. This helps other editors not have to check the edits as much, plus it allows up to see another reason we may or may not have considered. Also, be sure to check the talk pages of respective articles you are editing. Many times changes that you feel whould be made have already been discussed. Feel free to civily present your reasons for changing and/or improving certain aspects of the article, from structure to pictures and actual fact information. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:10, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Use of "campus"
Hello, yes, I did see the discussion. I just disagree with your opinion.

The use of the word campus in the institution's name has been phased out nd isn't used by Kent State University (see their University Communication and Marketing page), by Kent State Universtiy Stark (I think you've already heard from them) or by the Univesity System of Ohio.


 * Heard from them? Even if I had, what they say has no more bearing on the article than what anyone else says.  Unfortunately, Kent State Stark does not control the content of this article as that too is against Wikipedia policy, since the article is Wikipedias and is about Kent State Stark.

It is interesting why, against all conventional use, you are fighting for the use an obsolete term. Maybe you should actually visit the campus and see how they portray it on their signage and their officaial publications. See for example:

Their web page: http://www.stark.kent.edu/  - Kent State University Stark or their Fall 2008 magazine "Encompass" http://www.stark.kent.edu/CampusInfo/Magazine.cfm -- the cover says "Kent State University Stark." Page 2 shows the dean of "Kent State University Stark" and the Kent State University Stark Faculty Council Officers the Kent State University Stark Cabinet Members

Keep going and even the back cover and the return address is Kent State University Stark.


 * See below for the explanation. I am not fighting the "conventional use."  If that were the case, I would've added the full name "Kent State University Stark Campus" to every instance where the shorter version of the name exists.  I have only been persistent about keeping it in the opening line and in the infobox title since "Kent State University Stark Campus" is the title of the article.  That is pretty standard in Wikipedia articles.  The use of the word "campus" in the article title is to promote consistency in the articles about Kent State University, not to mention that using "campus" with the name is the full name.  --JonRidinger (talk) 17:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Now, about the seal.
You seem to think that it isn't/wasn't legitimate and took it upon yourself to remove and destroy the link to it.

Notice the Kent Stater's coverage of Rod Courdrry this week -- http://media.www.kentnewsnet.com/media/storage/paper867/news/2008/10/28/News/Former.daily.Show.Reporter.Brings.shock.Value-3509433.shtml

See the seal on the podium in the picture? It says Kent State University Stark.

No, not everything that says "campus" has been ripped off the walls and sent to the recycling bin, but it looks like as they replace things, they are using the new name and the new seal.

So while I respect that you apparently like the old name better for some reason, it doesn't seem to be your decision to make when ALL EVIDENCE IS TO THE CONTRARY. Yes, it is a campus, just like the Kent Campus is a campus and all college campuses are campuses. But that isn't their name.


 * The seal was removed because at the time of it's placing because first, there was no visual or website evidence that such a seal even existed (and since the image claimed to be a "self-work" it couldn't be verified). That has obviously changed.  However, the main reason it was removed was due to a copyright violation.  When placing a logo like that, it must have a valid use attached to it.  The former Kent State Stark seal was listed as "public domain" which it most certainly is not, even if you or another uploader made it yourself due to the fact that the seal is copyrighted and trademarked.  If you don't want images deleted, make sure they are labeled correctly and are not in violation of Wikipedia policy.  Pretty much every image in this article is a copyright violation.  Simply stating that Kent State is the owner of the photo does not give users or Wikipedia the right to duplicate and use the images on this article since it is NOT part of Kent State University.  Images from the University, even photographs, must have a valid reason for their use, which usually is that a free alternative (i.e. a picture you took yourself) could not be obtained for any reason.


 * As for the use of "Campus" the University Style Guide that you or someone who agrees with you posted as evidence for the name lists the word "Campus" as an acceptable part of the title   on pages 12-13.  Examples from the document, which was released January 2008: "Always write out in full and capitalize; subsequent references should be capitalized: Kent State University Ashtabula Campus"; "The lecture is at the Kent State University Tuscarawas Campus"; "Kent State University Ashtabula Campus," and yes, I do see the reference to "Kent State Stark" in the same paragraph.  In other words, while one format may be favorable to one campus or the other, the full name has not been abandoned yet and there are several acceptable formats to the names of each of the campuses. Further, it isn't a matter of my "like" for the name.  It's a matter of A) the full official name, which is still "Kent State University Stark Campus", B) The name of the article, which is also "Kent State University Stark Campus".  Note that even before you edited the article, the only use of the full name is in the title and the first line.  For the remainder of the article, which is still rife with its own issues, it is referred to as "Kent State Stark" or "Kent State University Stark."  It is standard policy on Wikipedia to have the title in the opening line, and then adding (as it had been), "also known as" or "more commonly known as."  I am perfectly aware that the regional campuses have been using the shortened "Kent State Stark" or "Kent State Salem" in their logos and advertising, but that doesn't mean the full name has been scrapped.  It's similar to when the University began referring to itself simply as "Kent" during the 1980s and 1990s; even the logos reflected that (other than the seal).  Despite that campaign, the full name of the University was still Kent State University, even if they preferred to be known as "Kent" (as a side note, the University now specifically asks to be reffered to as "Kent State" according to their media guides and not just as "Kent."). --JonRidinger (talk) 17:05, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

For future reference
Hello again. Please understand I don't want an edit war, but I do want to follow Wikipedia's policies on naming conventions and including images, plus I want the articles to be better both factually and grammatically. Most of what has happened on the Kent State Stark and Betsy Boze pages has been the result of lack of knowledge concerning those policies.

Don't forget to sign you comments when posting them on the talk pages or article discussion pages. Also, when using the user talk pages like this, generally it's OK to just respond on this page or directly on mine (or whoever you are talking to). Because I am posting on your talk page, it is automatically being "watched" by me, so if you respond here, I'll know as soon as I check Wikipedia again; same with my talk page. It's not a good idea to post your response in three different places, nor it is necessary; it's just redundant. Definitely try to avoid posting a response between two user pages to an article discussion page that wasn't started there. On the Kent State Stark page in particular, the readers don't have my initial statements, so they have nothing to reference your response off of. Now, you may want to post some of your comments made to me there because they are relevant to the article, but make sure they are edited in a way to present a point rather than as a response to me, unless you also include what I said. Even in that case, it's a good idea (and courteous) to ask the other person in the dialogue if they are OK with having what they said posted on the article's discussion page. For example, if you would upload a properly referenced and explained version of the Kent State Stark seal, I would include on the article discussion page a short note where the seal has been used on campus (maybe some links like you did on my page) as well as referencing the issue that originally got it deleted (copyright vio, notability concerns) in a civil manner. Happy editing! Please don't hesitate to ask questions and become familiar with Wikipedia policies. --JonRidinger (talk) 17:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Featured speakers
Thanks for your messsage. I am not opposed to including a section on the featured speakers and including several of the most notable ones, but a list as long as it currently is going to get trimmed down by me or other editors because its largely trivial. True, it's interesting and somewhat notable that a school the size of Kent State Stark is able to get such notable speakers (though be careful in just comparing it to the Kent campus as other prominent and not-so-prominent colleges and universities bring in a high number of notable speakers too). But remember, Wikipedia isn't a collection of trivia or an encyclopedia of everything (see WP:NOT). I would place it as part of the "Campus life" section (or a similar section) and in a paragraph (not a list) highlight some of the most notable ones (those with wikipedia articles), like less than 10. Having all of them, even if they are notable isn't necessary and is best suited for the Kent State Stark website. Remember, this article is to give readers a thorough, but still general, idea about the campus and school, not be a mirror site with all the information available on the school's main site. The best advice is to check out Wikiproject Universities and find articles that have been featured. Those are models of what the Kent State University Stark Campus article can and should eventually look like in terms of scope and information covered. They are also what other editors will be looking for when they examine this article. I appreciate your efforts in trying to improve the article, but make sure your edits are within Wikipedia guidelines and recommendations. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

KSU template
I'm not sure if you have seen the discussion about the Template:Kent State University that came up some time ago on the discussion page for Kent State University Stark Campus, but in case you haven't, the purpose of it is to connect all articles related to Kent State University, which includes things like Kent State Stark and Betsy Boze. If you look at the template, and click on the section "History" you will notice a link to the article about her. The same is true for the articles on Carol Cartwright and Lester Lefton, both of which have the template at the bottom. This makes it easier for people interested in learning about KSU to be able to connect notable people, events, and other things at KSU to each other. One of the complaints from several of the editors who are either at Kent State Stark or whose main interest is that article was that the template was "Kent-centric," so adding notable aspects from all of the KSU campuses will help make it a more university-wide template reflecting notable articles regardless of which campus they are affiliated with. --JonRidinger (talk) 23:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm very sorry you disagree, but you do not have a full understanding of the purpose of templates in connecting associated things. Templates are designed to show connections and Dr. Boze does have a connection with Kent State as the CEO of Kent State Stark.  While it may not add to the readers understanding of Dr. Boze, it does add to their understanding of Kent State University.  Again, the template is for all notable things about Kent State University, which includes Dr. Boze and the Stark Campus.  The more articles created about notable aspects of Kent State, including those at Kent State Stark will be included on the template.  Please stop removing the template from either page as it will be considered vandalism. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:44, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You might also be interested in reading the essay WP:NAVBOX and policy CLN. The general rule of thumb is if a template links to a specific article, then the article should transclude that template. If we don't practice this we could come to a situation where a reader clicks a few links in a template browsing articles, when they click a link to Boze's article they would come to a dead-end; this shouldn't happen and can be easily avoided by providing a navigation template to the article. §hep  Talk  03:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

March 2009
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. §hep Talk  22:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)