User talk:Stepho-wrs/Archive/2023

Happy New Year, Stepho-wrs!


Happy New Year! Stepho-wrs, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

VictorTorres2002 ( talk ) 03:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Same back to you.  Stepho  talk 04:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Removal of spaces in infoboxes
Hey, I saw you reverted and reapplied my image changes for my recent edits on the Toyota Concept Vehicles page. I just wanted to reach out since it seems like some people take issue with the space removal, but its actually something that Wikipedia seems to do automatically on my end. I didn't think it mattered, but some people have mentioned that it does, so I wanted to see if you knew what causes that and how to avoid it in the future. TKOIII (talk) 20:07, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi. I do all my editing by hand, so I don't know what causes it. My guess is that whatever tool you use has this has some side effect. My day job is a computer programmer and it is a well known thing in my profession that good layout of code has a measurable effect on how easy it is to understand that code.  Stepho  talk 21:17, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't use any plugins or third party tools other than Twinkle, which I very rarely use. The only tool I use is the default Wikipedia visual editor. I'm not sure how to prevent the space removal from happening other than abandoning visual editing and only using the source editor.
 * I agree, the spaces are very useful. Personally I find the visual editor nearly entirely useless (I also drive a manual car and nearly all my powertools have cords), but that's a separate story.  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  20:03, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. But since a lot of people use the visual editor then this is going to be an ongoing problem. Hopefully I'm not pushing it uphill :) .  Stepho  talk 00:20, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks
Lol, im still kinda new here thank you for the tip... Randomdudewithinternet (talk) 07:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)


 * No problem. Welcome to WP.  Stepho  talk 09:02, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Recent edit on Nissan GT-R
Sorry to hear that my fellow Wikipedian, I would like to inform you that I did not undo your recent edit on my own. As I submitted my changes, your changes were automatically got reverted for some reason. Gaayhan (talk) 06:14, 26 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I was a bit grumpy. Probably what happened is that we both edited at the same time. I think my edit was saved first. You saved your edit after me. The system is supposed to tell you that there is an edit conflict and allow you to choose to keep mine, keep yours or to make a combination of both our edits (cut and paste from parts from each one). I think you chose choose to keep yours, which then erased my edit by mistake.  Stepho  talk 11:40, 26 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but there was nothing to choose between, it just erased your changes on its own. But still thank you for letting me know about edit conflicts. Gaayhan (talk) 14:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Deletionists
What is going on with people deleting all kinds of articles for bad reasons? I just Toyota C transmission; I had no clue. They just deleted Nissan TD engine; I am working on getting it reinstated (please help if any sources), but I wish there was some way of knowing what else is threatened. I have no way of noticing all 4,000 items on my talk page. Someone also tried to delete Sinpar but at least I got that one stopped. Please tell me if you know of any other deletion requests that are currently active and need support. Best,  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  02:22, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it sucks. Thankfully I don't see any other articles on their radar that worry me.  Stepho  talk 07:03, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Metre: "nearly all ... except"
You reverted my change of "nearly all English speaking nations except the USA and the Philippines" to "nearly all English speaking nations but not the USA and the Philippines". In the first version the "nearly" implies that there are additional exceptions beyond the USA and Philippines. The second version implies that USA and Philippines are exceptions that make it "nearly all" rather than "all"; they might be the only exceptions or there might be additional ones. I am not sure that the first version has the meaning intended (What would be the additional exceptions?), so the second version is safer. I don't think that the second version is any less grammatical or harder to understand, so I am surprised that you saw fit to revert! Will you reconsider? It's a small point, I realise!

If the text had been "all countries except the USA and Philippines", there would not be an issue to discuss: it is the "nearly" that makes the difference. JMCHutchinson (talk) 07:02, 9 March 2023 (UTC)


 * No reply, so I have repeated my edit. JMCHutchinson (talk) 14:18, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Apologies, I got distracted by other stuff and forgot to respond. I believe the original version is better. But it's only a small thing so I'm not going to make a fuss about it.  Stepho  talk 21:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the constructive and generous attitude. Good that we can agree to disagree over this very marginal matter. JMCHutchinson (talk) 19:26, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Quantum Motors
Thanks for additions and alterations, and suggestions. Do you think the article is ready for submitting to publication? - NealeWellington (talk) 04:07, 1 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Soon. I haven't worked my way through formatting all the references yet.
 * I'd also like to remove the Alibaba reference until we find another reference that explicitly ties them together. At the moment, the most we can say is that they look very similar to each other.  Stepho  talk 05:33, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I suspect that unless Quantum come out and say who the obtain their car bodies from we won't ever know. Anyway, there is our comments on the talk page and these should point others in a direction to look. I agree there should be no reference to Alibaba in the article. I'll keep digging around to see if I can find anything else, but I think we are almost at the end. Thanks. NealeWellington (talk) 09:06, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Nationality edits
MuhammadOkky1234 is adding nationalities to multiple articles, not just automobile makes. And doing so repeatedly after being warned to stop. DarkAudit (talk) 04:18, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem. Was just giving him the benefit of the doubt for youthful exuberance before labelling him as malicious. If he continues then he's had ample warning.  Stepho  talk 04:55, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries. I sorta read that as, "Oi, don't pick on the new kid!" too. DarkAudit (talk) 05:13, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

SUV
Sorry about that. I had multiple tabs open trying to sort out that preceding edit, and I must've clicked "edit" on an older revision instead of the current one. --Sable232 (talk) 00:03, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * No worries - done similar myself enough times :)  Stepho  talk  00:05, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

The number 25 was derived from long discussion on the talk page, not copied from FIA
Where did you come up with number 25 if the number is not copied from FIA rules from 1969, and that was for Group 4 cars.

Group 1 : series-preduction touring cars (5,000) Group 2 : touring cars (1,000) Group 3: grand touring cars (500) Group 4 : sports cars (25)

https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/688871134DFCB847C12574A5003A1E8B/$FILE/Hist_App_J_69_Art_252_a.pdf

In 1971 that changed:

Group 1 : series-production touring cars (5,000) Group 2: touring cars (1,000) Group 3: series-production grand touring cars (1,000) Group 4: grand touring cars (400) Group 5: special production cars deriving from Groups 1 to 4

https://web.archive.org/web/20060314212503/http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1846658806__Hist_App_J_76_Art_252_a.pdf

In 1981 that also changed:

Group 1 : series-production touring cars (5,000) Group 2: touring cars (1,000) Group 3: series-production grand touring cars (1,000) Group 4: grand touring cars (400) Group 5: special production cars deriving from Groups 1 to 4

https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/09FC817B422E9133C12574A30052AEB6/$FILE/Hist_App_J_81_Art_251_a.pdf

That 25 is obsolete number, production number should be at least 400 for example 500 Bugatti Chirons were produced, not including other variants like Chiron Sport, Chiron Super Sport, Chiron Noire, Chiron Pur Sport, Chiron Profilée, etc.). 141.138.24.111 (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Different record keeping bodies conflict on the number of eligible cars. The number was decided on after looking at FIA, Guinness Book of Records, various other record keeping bodies and discussion. See Talk:List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration/Archive_1 and the equivalent at Talk:Production_car_speed_record. If you wish to change that number then please open a discussion at talk:List of fastest production cars by acceleration .  Stepho  talk 00:48, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't know how to do it. Also, I don't know what should the number be? From FIA, 400 cars produced? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.138.24.111 (talk) 07:57, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think that 25 is a good number and that we do not have to blindly copy FIA's number but if you think the number is wrong then go to talk:List of fastest production cars by acceleration, click on "Add topic" (top right) and make your case.  Stepho  talk 21:29, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

R(o)uble
The "dispute" is one between just two editors who are obsessed by the topic, NRS and TCG (who has been banned but pops back up repeatedly as an IP). NRS is on the edge of a block (see their talk page). Compromise and proportion are alien concepts. My advice is not to get involved: I did and regretted it, but not any more. The RFC closed in January should have put an end to further discussion and I should have seen it lot earlier. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:59, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'm pretty much done anyway.  Stepho  talk 19:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

BRD? Yeah, right!
Way to go, kiddo! Gonna slap a warning on my talk page for reverting your edit? You reverted my edit, quoting WP:BRD. So where is the "D" part of that claim you make? You know, that bit that spells it out: "Discuss your bold edit with the person who reverted you. To follow BRD specifically, instead of one of the many alternatives, you must not restore your bold edit, make a different edit to this part of the page, engage in back-and-forth reverting, or start any of the larger dispute resolution processes. Talk to that one person until the two of you have reached an agreement." But you win... Close, but co Cigar! I can't be bothered to argue with experienced editors who should know better. There's too much vandalism around this joint that needs more immediate attention for me to waste my time. BTW, it may have slipped your attention, but my revert was a good faith revert. Gone with the wind... --Technopat (talk) 11:34, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you're talking about. Maxeto0910 made a bold claim that I had suspicions about, so I did a revert and listed my reasons in the edit summary. I have also added a topic on the discussion page. If you follow my history you will see that I can be passionate about pursuing the truth but I am not vindictive to the editor. I also try to be civil. I have suspicions about an American bias in American references (found to be true many times) but if the discussion supports the original claims then I will happily remove my objections. Are there any other names you'd like to call me?  Stepho  talk 11:51, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

and
Yep, they are socks. FYI, that's WP:LTA/LB2 - they've been targeting Toyota Supra (J29/DB) lately. Thankfully protected that page. -- Prodraxis talk contribs  13:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know.  Stepho  talk 22:13, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Toyoda/Toyota
Hi Stepho - I am not entirely clear on Toyota's earliest history, but wasn't their first car sold as the Toyoda AA? Did they change the name and badging in August 1937? Not necessarily saying Toyota AA should be renamed, but I imagine the first prototype should be Toyoda A1 and Toyoda AA should at least receive mention. Best,  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  14:30, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I'd have to do some research but some quick checks reveal that the name change Toyoda -> Toyota happened in Sept 1936 and that Model AA was released sometime in 1936. It's possible that the AA was always a Toyota AA but also possible that it was a Toyoda for a few months. The A1 was never released (just 3 prototypes for factory testing that lead into the AA production model). But it's not hard to add redirects for the Toyoda names. I'd shy away from renaming the article because it would confuse more than it clarify. But depending on what research brings up, we could mention the company name change in the text.  Stepho  talk 22:54, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I just looked at Toyota's own timeline and they refer to the AA/AB and GA as Toyoda products in 1936: September 14-16: Exhibition held commemorating the completion of Japan-made Toyoda cars for the general public. Model AA, AB phaeton, GA truck, and other vehicles announced (Tokyo Prefecture Commercial and Industrial Promotion Hall). Then, in August and September 1937 Toyota Motor Co., Ltd established - Risaburo Toyoda and Kiichiro Toyoda appointed company president and vice president, respectively, [and on] September 29 Toyoda Automatic Loom Works' automotive manufacturing operations handed over to Toyota Motor Co., Ltd..  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  12:25, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I've only done some cursory looking but it looks like they always referred to it as the Model AA, never as the Toyota AA or Toyoda AA.
 * In "A history of the first 50 years" on page 65 it says:
 * Feb 1936 - design work of AA begins, based on A1.
 * Jul 1936 - they ran the competition for the new company logo.
 * 14 Sep 1936 - Toyoda Automatic Loom Works sponsored an exhibit in Tokyo to show the AA, AB cars, the GA truck and DA bus.
 * Oct 1936 - renamed the Model AA as the "Kokusan Toyota Goh" ("the domestically produced Toyota") and always used the new name after that.
 * 28 Aug 1937 - Toyota Motor Co. Ltd. established as a new company (page 66-67).
 * The exact date of starting sales/advertising of the AA is not mentioned, so there maybe a short time between start of sales/advertising and the rename where it was called the Toyoda AA. Feb-Oct 1936 at most.  Stepho  talk 02:38, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Very well - it doesn't look like there is any reason to even add an aka without any clear support from references. Best,  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  20:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Starlet
Hi Stepho-wrs, I recently added a chunk of information on the toyota starlet page under P90 section, a lot of it regarding the UK models. This information was gathered by a few of us collectively due to our interest in the subject, and has taken us a long time to gather this information for ourselves. I thought I would be a good idea to share that information, particularly with how little information about the SR model we have here in the UK.

I am new to editing wiki pages, and you said in your reason for the bulk revert was there were no reliable sources to back this up. Our information was gathered through many dealer brochures and accessories brochures, information from toyota's own website (history of the toyota starlet), UK vehicle registry information, and TTE's website that can be accessed via the way back machine archive. All of this information I can provide via links & image's, however, being new I don't know how to do this.

If you could please let me know how I can go about proving these reliable sources to have this information restored, I would appreciate it. Thank you Trevstar34 (talk) 16:24, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Mostly it is digging up the sources that you used to come to your conclusions. These have to be publicly published sources, such as books, brochures (although this counts as a primary source and may be treated as biased towards Toyota), magazines, websites of well known companies (not fan sites) or any other source that is likely to have vetted by professional editors. See WP:RS. This allows us to double check you work instead of simply taking your word for it. I have been in your position of gathering and presenting data. Sometimes I have made mistakes. Or incomplete sources made my presented data slightly wrong. Wikipedia lives and dies by reliable sources.  Stepho  talk 22:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)