User talk:Steve200255

Welcome to Wikipedia
Steve200255, welcome to Wikipedia! I will post a "welcome" template that has a few useful links in it later, but I wanted to say "hi" personally. I have noticed you on the Joseph Smith Jr. talk page and felt the need to get some of Wikipedia's basic beliefs in front of you before it's too late. One thing Wikipedia believes in is called secondary sources. This means that you can't just have people say whatever they want and believe it, the information has to be backed up by a second source. This has it's pros and cons - There is an article on WP about my father. I could add an immense amount of real information about him, but I'm a primary source, so I can't be alone, I have to have a second source to back me up. This is frustrating from my point of view because I know what I know, and I know my dad. That said I can rest assured that if someone tried to put information in the article that wasn't true all I have to ask is "where's your source?" If they can't provide one then I get to take out their stuff. So it works both ways. For most religious articles this gets a bit annoying. How can I get a second source for something HF revealed only to me? For things like that WP has some loose concessions, but they are the best we can do. The project you mentioned, the "Joseph Smith Papers" should help with taking direct quotes from Smiths own manuscripts, but it's still gonna be phrased in such a way that WP is not asserting a fact, WP is simply saying that's what Smith said he saw. The more sources we find that contribute to this article the more correct we can help make it. One of the nice things about WP is, if you have a Reliable Source they can't argue with you. Notice, I made Reliable Source capitalized, that's because reliable sources are their own entity in WP. Some may feel that a source is reliable and some may not, so we may have to ask them to define why they feel a certain source is not reliable. If we have to there is a neutral talk page we can go to in order to determine if a source is reliable. But I warn you now, the ranting you did on the Joseph Smith Jr. talk page will only get you in trouble eventually. Thankfully you kept away from any specific editor but still, it's best to simply stick to the edits being made. That way you can't get in trouble for personal attacks. I hope this helps. If you have any questions please see some of the links below or just ask me and I'll be glad to help. Padillah (talk) 20:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to the Illusion of Free Speech
In an old song by the punk band The Clash they state, "You have the right to free speech, as long as you don't actually try to use it."

I don't mean to discourage you, in fact I hope you enjoy a few months of holding the contributors of this article's feet to the proverbial fire. Start by visiting some parallel articles such as the article on Martin Luther, the Masons, Judaism, Jehovah's Witnesses, or the like. Compare the tenor and respect these show their subject. Then come back, look at what is written here, and go back and speak your mind.

And be careful about the "goodwill" or "Assume Good Faith" attacks you will endure. While it is okay for individuals to openly attack our faith and leaders, the second we question the motives of an aliased contributor we are deemed insensitive and boorish. They get to attack our POV all the time because we are LDS. Ironic, but that's how it goes. Develop thick skin. And once it gets thick enough maybe you can join me as a troll under the bridge. That's a term that I was, I feel unfairly, given by a senior editor because I dared to ask him to find me a single wiki article more insensitive than the Joseph Smith one.

And don't get angry, I actually find it quite humorous when you look for the irony and how the cynics squirm when you shine a light on their methods. Intellectual, perhaps. Fair, I can't comment on that. You make up your own mind, but it looks like you already figured it out for yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.60.41.15 (talk) 03:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)