User talk:SteveBaker/archive8

ignoring the point is only more rude.
The more i learn about wikipedia's policies, the more I understand how many of them you broke when dealing with me. Iamandrewrice (talk) 21:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist/Workshop
Hi, noticed your comment today in this workshop - you probably didn't realise the workshop is no longer active, as that arbitration case is now closed. I agree, it does seem a little unfair to me that the Rational Skeptic project didn't warn any new members of the sanctions editors would face if they joined their group. However you'd probably be best directing your complaints at the Rational Skeptic project directly.--feline1 (talk)10:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Boy those ArbCom pages are REALLY unclear. I can't even figure out what the final decision was - it looks maybe like they took sanctions against the two trouble-makers and left everyone else alone (which is essentially what I advocated).  Shouldn't there be a big banner at the top that says "THIS CASE IS NOW CLOSED, THE RESULT WAS " ?? SteveBaker (talk) 12:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, they can be a bit confusing to the uninitiated. The Rational Skeptic project is full to the gills of expert wikilawyerers though ;0) so for them to plead ignornance of the ArbComm verdict would strain credence...--feline1 (talk) 12:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * So what WAS the conclusion? SteveBaker (talk) 12:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Stay indoors, and, if possible, avoid risks.--feline1 (talk) 14:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there any chance at all that you could just tell me what the conclusion was? I actually need to know. SteveBaker (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well it's on those pages somewhere. Just root around!--feline1 (talk) 15:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Steve, the conclusion is summarized at Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist. There doesn't appear to be any blocks or bans issued as a consequence of the case (yet) but both parties are under editing restrictions. Rockpock  e  t  18:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

are you online at the moment?
please reply if you are... and also are you an administrator? Iamandrewrice (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am online, no, I'm not an admin - what's the panic? SteveBaker (talk) 15:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry - now I'm heading out for a meeting - I'll be back in a couple of hours. Mmm'k I'm back. SteveBaker (talk) 17:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

sorry... its sorted out now... it was just I needed some quick advice on how to reply to some racist and insulting personal remarks one user left me. They've been blocked now... thanks anyway Iamandrewrice (talk) 18:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought you had an adopter now? That would be the best person to talk to. SteveBaker (talk) 18:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Re.:Ref Desk: Misc: How to DISAPPEAR: Link
Can you fix that link ? MY computer screwed up when I tried to set that link. 205.240.146.37 (talk) 22:01, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah - here's the link: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Right_to_vanish  -- notice that it's a wikiMEDIA link - not a more common wikiPEDIA.  02:53, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm referring to the skeptictank.org/hs/vanish.htm link. I'm referring to that one in which a person chooses to vanish due to a bitchy/violent wife/husband, to disappear to get a new ID because some idiot in power has made someone's life a living hell. 205.240.146.37 (talk) 04:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry - I misunderstood. It's at http://skeptictank.org/hs/vanish.htm (the original poster didn't put "http://" in front so Wiki didn't notice it was a URL.  In my opinion (and several others from the Reference Desk who read it), that document is useless.  It utterly fails to tell you how to get a new Social Security number, Birth certificate, Drivers License - and without those things, you're going to find it hard to make a decent new life. SteveBaker (talk) 12:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Excellent reply on the memorial
I have always found your reference desk work to be of very high quality, but I think your reply to the question about a memorial is exceptional even by your standards. Please keep up the goo work. -Arch dude 23:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Appreciate Advice
Really do. Its the way my computer is configured when I go online. I'm no "news junkie". 65.163.115.114 (talk) 02:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you help keep me honest ? 65.163.115.114 (talk) 02:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Praise for awesomeness
Hi Steve, I hope this isn't too much like talkpage spam (feel free to delete if it is), but I just want to say that the reference desk was one of the main things that first attracted me to Wikipedia, and a feeling of wanting to contribute to such a great resource prompted me to sign up for an account. I've seen you answer a *LOT* of questions on there, and on behalf of everyone who you've helped, want to say thanks for helping make it such an awesome corner of the web :) Err, oh yeah, and I stole your 'This user imagines all the people living life in peace.' userbox for my page too.. hope you don't mind ;) --Monorail Cat 09:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your compliments. By all means steal the userbox - after all, I stole it from User:Disavian! SteveBaker 14:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

so sorry
You can have my Digi-Comp II when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers! :-) —Steve Summit (talk) 15:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm - so I'm thinking Sniper rifle or Poison laboratory of the Soviet secret services should be on my reading list next. If you could avoid gripping the Digi-Comp too firmly, that would be good because I'd like to avoid damaging it during the actual prying phase of the operation! :-)   SteveBaker 16:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

"Miracle" Machines
Hey, saw your recent conversation regarding said machines and thought you might be interested in a series of articles the Seattle Times recently ran about the subject. , , , . Preaching to the choir obviously, but thought I'd share anyways; read, or not, as you please. Regards, Azi Like a Fox 21:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah - it's clear that these machines are fakes. The frustrating thing for me is that the guy I was arguing with (User:Sandman30s) here claimed to be familiar with science and is a computer programmer. and yet he still can't see what nonsense this all is.  I'm horrified at how gullible people can be. SteveBaker 00:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

So about that kid you know that plays everquest
You mentioned a while back on the reference desk that some kid stole your wife's laptop and installed everquest on it. I thought it was a interesting/funny story. Did you ever call the cops on him? 64.236.121.129 21:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, we didn't want to - we felt his parents should be able to choose how to deal with it rather than have something arbitary imposed by the police. But his parents asked us to call the police - so we did.  As I recall, we explained to them that we didn't really feel we should press charges and we certainly didn't want him to get arrest records or (god forbid) a criminal record.  The police decided that we needed to put off our decision until the following day (which was really in order to give them an excuse to toss him into jail overnight for 'scare tactics' without leaving him with a record).  So, I think that's pretty much what happened.  I firmly believe it was the wrong way to handle it - but then the entire thing was due to their mishandling of the kid in the first place.  How the heck you can fail to notice that your kid has been playing a videogame for 48 hours straight is beyond me.  I'd have stopped it at around the 8 hour mark when much gentler measures would have worked. SteveBaker 21:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * My interest is truly piqued, do you have a link to the original story on the Ref Desk? Rockpock  e  t  22:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2007_November_13 SteveBaker 23:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you, interesting stuff. On this, the occasion of my 13,426th edit, I hope you are right about our shared addiction being "something worth spending your time on" (isn't that what all junkies tell themselves?) and we are not just spending the evenings, mornings, afternoons, measuring out our lives with coffee spoons. Rockpock  e  t  01:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * By an amazing coincidence - this is my 10,008th edit in almost exactly 2 years - it looks like you started editing about 2 weeks after me and you're 3400 edits ahead of me. Hence, I may boldly assert that I don't have a problem... :-)  &lt;sigh&gt; SteveBaker 02:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

That's amazing. So he's in Iraq now? I can't imagine this one incident was what lead to military school though. Did he do anything bad after the laptop stealing incident? 64.236.121.129 15:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe he got back from Iraq a year or so ago. I think the breakdown in communication with his parents was the root cause of the Everquest problem - the laptop incident pushed both sides 'over the brink' and caused a 'death-spiral' of ever-decreasing respect between him and his parents that resulted in him ending up in military school - I believe that joining up full-time with the Army was his decision.  I've met him several times since - he seems the same old kid I knew from long before the Everquest/Laptop incident.  His parents have moved to Florida - he still lives in Texas - which may have solved a lot of problems.  Being a good parent is tough - but some people make it harder on themselves than is strictly necessary. SteveBaker 15:38, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So he's ok now? Not getting into trouble, realized the mistakes he made, and isn't making them anymore? Grew up? 64.236.121.129 16:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He grew up mostly. Hormones at age 15 through 20 were not doing him any favors.  I doubt that the military life had a whole lot to do with it - superficially he's the same kid now that he ever was.  I believe he was in some kind of postal unit in Iraq - they had to shuttle mail around between the units and the sorting offices - which was about as safe as driving anywhere in that country ever is.  Being shot at will generally age you fast - although as a parenting technique, it has little to recommend it.  I don't like to mention the laptop incident - if he has any lingering resentments over his youth, I don't want them to be dumped on me because I called the cops (which, you'll recall, I was loath to do).  So we bump into each other occasionally, we talk about the work he's done on his customised Jeep and the work I've done on my customised '63 Mini - I call his car a "gas guzzling monster truck" - he calls mine a "skateboard"...that kind of thing. SteveBaker 18:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Java etal.
I am leaving this here, despite that warning at the top about staying with the conversation, just because otherwise I don't know how you would know I have written a message for you. Anyway it is unimportant, just to say that I think I will try Java, but I will have to wait until I get back to the States. I am currently living in Paris, and although I have a high proficiency at reading French historical writings, I think learning Java from a French Java book (if there even are such things) would be painful. And I could order it off the Internet, but I am currently freaking out about Facebook's Beacon. And finally, because I am in Paris I have more beautiful things to look at than a screen, even though I am on here a lot lately, but that is because I am writing an article and every paragraph or so I have to go try to answer someone else's question for the immediate gratification thing. Anyway thanks for all your help. You seem to know about everything! Sauda d e 7  03:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh well, that's an ENTIRELY different matter! Head over to Montmartre sometime and knock back a few Calvados at..ooh...La Auberge de la Bonne Franquette, say.  It's guaranteed to distract you from any crazy ideas like learning Java from a French textbook!  :-)   SteveBaker (talk) 03:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I will do so! Seriously, I never want to return to the United States. It is like heaven over here! Merci beaucoup for your wise counsel! Sauda d e 7  12:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * P.S. That story about "...that kid you know that plays everquest" was pretty amazing - especially the whole sad thread it was included in, about the brothers who played the WWII or WOW game for 2 years. And the way those kids (not your neighbor) talked about the battles and the comradery (sp?) as though they'd *really* been through war together...it all made me go look at that "Second Life" site which is strange in itself, with all the real-world money involved. But the kid in your story is pathetically charming in the moment of asking if you had a charger! But it is too bad that he had to go to war.


 * You are right about the years from 15-20. I remember hearing an interview on NPR once that actually made a lot of sense to me - that kids are entering puberty earlier and earlier (plastics? hormones in the meat? who knows) and historically they just would enter (or already be in) the workforce. But today, first with the post-Rousseau creation of "childhood", and then with the post-WWII creation of "teenagers" and the subsequent targeting of that group as a “market” in Capitalist societies, kids are just kept in this artificial state of retarded mental growth; physiologically mature at 11 or 12, yet in a way kept as "pets" in the households of parents until 18, they are forced to sit still in schools where their minds are raging with hormones; never thinking about schoolwork (I didn't learn anything in High School for instance, except about cute boys!); kept off the streets, and kept in situations where they have no real responsibilities but lots of disposable income (in affluent societies) they just go through these lost, purposeless years. And hence the deep self-focus and obsessional neurosis about things like “popularity” in small-systems like school.


 * So this sociologist they were interviewing said that at age 13 or so kids should just stop going to school and instead should be made to work for 6 years in volunteers forces, helping old people in retirement communities, or teaching younger kids, or taking care of animals at the pound... just doing public service. Because when kids are given responsibilities and genuinely trusted and have a sense of their own power to do good they actually almost always rise to the occasion. And especially when they are interpellated as citizens and not as consumers. Then he said, after those years they could go back to school at the college level or continue in the field(s) they’d learned about. This of course assumes that they learn the basics early, but I learned to read at age 4 and everyone in my elementary school class could quite read well, despite going to a public school in a not-rich part of town. We had good teachers and I think the pay was better (relatively) back then. Anyway, when kids have no real responsibilities and when we don't really have rights-of-passage in our culture, what you get is 16 hours a day of World of Warcraft and Everquest (because that gives virtual power and responsibility that kids crave). Oh, I should say that they did a test study of his theory where a group of kids were taken out of the system (by their parents) and apprenticed out at service-industry internships, and their depression went down and reading skills went up and they all went on to college. I just thought that was interesting. Okay, Salut! Sauda d e 7  13:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * My wife (Francoise) is French, I'm British - we live in Texas. When we lived in the South of England, it was very convenient to be able to hop on a Ferry or take the Channel Tunnel to France for day trips or whatever - but these days, it's an expensive proposition (especially with the terrible state of the dollar).  Francoise comes from a HUGE family - and she has relatives everywhere we might want to stay.  So when we visit Paris, we generally stay with a sister she has who lives in a little village just west of Versailles.  Paris is fun - but I think if I actually lived there for any amount of time, the traffic and the high cost of living would soon kill my desire to stay - I'm not really a fan of big cities.  I like the tiny villages to the north of France - we've often thought of buying a small cottage there.  Anyway - enjoy Paris, when it's great, it's REALLY great - when it sucks, there are definitely other places that suck more!  SteveBaker (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm amazed a brit has no problem living in Texas. Don't the rednecks get on your nerves? 64.236.121.129 (talk) 17:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * On the rare occasions I actually meet one - yes. They are friendly enough people - but their belief system (religion, politics and frankly poor education) bothers me a lot!  The saving grace about Texas is that not many native-Texans actually live in the cities or work in the software business.  Almost everyone in urban areas comes from somewhere else.  I'm living in Austin now (halfway through relocating from the Dallas area) and the people here are a pretty eclectic bunch.  The whole 'bible belt' thing bothers me the most - I'm an atheist and it's not good to have people think you're the antichrist.  But the cost of living is low (compared to either east or west coast USA - or England) and the high tech stuff I work on really only happens here and in California.  California is just too far out of my price range - I have a 3000 sq.foot house sitting in an acre and a half of virgin woodland with a lake view - and it cost me less than the 1 bedroom apartment that one of my friends has in Silicon Valley.  What's more, I have a peaceful 15 minute drive to work - he has highway 101 for 50 minutes each way.  There is a lot to be said for Texas - IF you can steer clear of the worst of the local populace!


 * So how did you end up in France?


 * SteveBaker (talk) 18:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh Hi! That was actually someone else asking about the rednecks - I just got home! But I liked your answer. Austin is the one place a person can live in Texas maybe, that and maybe some of those towns on the Gulf. Austin when I went there in the early 90s (road trip) was a pretty alternative town with good music and a university and the high-tech. I always am happy if I get a person from Austin when I call the Apple Care line -- or Canada. Other places have nice but not-so-bright help. Still one reason I love Apple is that I can actually speak with a person in my native language who is pretty knowledgeable, and sparing that, funny. Nothing against the good, moral, hard-working people of Bangalore, but I really don't like having to pronounce my name 20 times in a row just to be told they cannot help me. But once I learn Java I will rule the tech world, right?


 * You are lucky to be British and (in my opinion) your wife is *luckier* to be French. If she has any male relatives that need to get married they can look me up!; they can be 100 years old, already happily in a gay relationship, in a vegetative state, it doesn't matter as long as I could get citizenship here! Especially with the dollar. I live off lentils! (And oysters, but those are pretty cheap and amazing here!) I am a PhD candidate in the History of Art, so I am here doing research. When I am in the States I live in the Bay Area so I know what you are talking about. I actually pay less in rent here in Paris than I did in Berkeley, which is saying something since there I paid close to 900 dollars a month to live in a hovel by the freeway. Needless to say that I have maxed-out my student loans getting this degree, just supplementing my fellowships, etc. The Bay Area is crazy $$$$ unless you work in high-tech so you are lucky! But yes, I could have 10 acres with horse privileges in Arizona for what I pay to live in an Ikea furnished studio in Berkeley. Near a fault-line.


 * And yes, my own country is inscrutable to me. I think all is lost. How can there be anything scarier than a country filled with religious zealots who have the biggest military in the world, controlled by corporate interests. Filled, too, with people living beyond their means (oops, that's me!), and endless landscapes of strip-malls and drive-thrus. I'm sure in Texas you hear alot about the border fence too. It is all crazy. Sometimes I wonder why I even study 19th century French art when in 20 years everything in the world will be Chinese. I even have that application on Facebook where I learn "A Chinese word a day!" But if French was hard to learn imagine! At least French has the letters that I've been staring at my whole life, just sometimes they wear hats or have tails! Then today I read about that poor Japanese guy who was worked to death at the Toyota plant. We are all on our way there! S<font color="#ff001f">a<font color="#ff1000">u<font color="#ff4000">d<font color="#ff6000">a d e 7  22:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * P.S. My friend was telling me the other day that historians really do think now that people in the French countryside used to literally hibernate through the winters! That maybe they would get up to pee or eat a piece of bread, throw another log on the fire, but then they would go back to bed! Because in Early Modern or Pre-Modern times there was nothing else to do! Imagine! <font color="#ff004f">S<font color="#ff001f">a<font color="#ff1000">u<font color="#ff4000">d<font color="#ff6000">a d e 7  22:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't believe you typed all that on an AZERTY keyboard! I once spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to type an '@' sign - eventually I had to give up and cut/paste one from somewhere else! Don't you get automatic French citizenship if you can demonstrate mastery of AZERTY?


 * I'm sure Francoise has male relatives who are unmarried - she's one of 14 children and has close to 50 nieces and nephews - most of whom are of marriagable age. Lots of them live in Lille - but you find them more or less everywhere you travel.  There is even a cousin in Seattle and a nephew in LA - so this is a pretty international bunch!  Sadly, they are probably all hibernating right now.


 * Incidentally - I just read on slashdot.org that Facebook have just backed down over the whole Beacon thing - apparently you can now completely opt out of it. One less thing to freak out about.


 * I do work in high tech (I'm a video game writer for Midway Studios - before that, I designed 3D graphics systems for flight simulators) - but there is no way I could afford the Bay area. People tell me they have to work there because that's where the jobs are - and companies tell me that they have to be there because that's where the talent is...WHY THE HECK DON'T THEY ALL JUST MOVE SOMEWHERE CHEAPER?  Well, actually, I guess they are gradually doing that - and Austin seems to be the place where they are all re-grouping, it's easily the most "Californian" city in Texas. SteveBaker (talk) 00:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * But if you are a game designer, can't you just live anywhere and phone it in? Do you have to meet in meat space? And I am sure you could live here in France (granted you wouldn't make as much money, but apparently they are kind of desperate for computer saavy people). I myself am not a gamer. I played that game...Doom (thanks Wiki)...three times, but it always made me kind of motion sick. (Although I heard on a BBC science podcast the other day that women who play just 10 hours of a video game like WOW afterwards score in a comparable range to men in mechanical aptitude tests - like it restructures their brains! I was the girl that scored highest in my Jr. High on mechanical aptitude tests but I think that is because I was the only child of a father who was always rebuilding things and I helped.) Myst was always unfathomable to me. I was never sure what it was even supposed to do. Was it supposed to be pretty like a screen saver? Or was there a point? I clicked on ever pixel on the screen trying to get it to do something. I could walk out on the pier, that was it. So that was pretty much the end of gaming for me. I do play Tetris sometimes. But mostly I like Scrabulous on Facebook.


 * And Facebook isn't fooling anyone by "backing down". They are still data-mining, they just don't post it. All that information still traffics back to them. I am pretty much a Leftist, but I am as paranoid as the crazy Right-wingers about some things. All that venture capital that went into early Facebook was from people who had worked with DARPA and the CIA. So now pretty much all I do on there is play Scrabble with my friends. But I love that so much (being here in Paris) that I just don't buy anything on line. I was even freaked out about my new passport with the RFID chip! I try to be skeptical and rational and all that, but why do we need ID chips?! And I am with [Giorgio Agamben] on the biometric stuff. And besides, the new American passports look like hoaky truck-stop placemats. When was the last time you saw oxen plowing a field in America? Or a steam locomotive? Or a riverboat? (Thanks Katrina!) The whole design is comprised of atavistic dream imagery. I'm surprised there's not an image of bent over slaves with bolls of cotton in their arthritic hands! And yet against this "good ole days" background there is this chip that tracks me around the globe!? These are strange times!


 * Oh well. Now you have seen my dark crazy side, Alas. <font color="#ff004f">S<font color="#ff001f">a<font color="#ff1000">u<font color="#ff4000">d<font color="#ff6000">a d e 7  01:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If you think passports are scary, you should see what a 'green card' (er "Permanent Resident Alien Card") looks like. It has holograms on both sides - one of which is large and appears to have data encoded in it - plus a tiny holographic photo of me...and the card is suspiciously thick...implying that something interesting lies buried in some inner layer!  I've decided that I don't want to know what's in it!  It took 7 years to get the green cards for my family and I - despite the fact that I was invited by the US government to come and work here on a military program because of my flight simulator expertise.  Anyway, the cards are usually locked away somewhere safe at home - we never need them - until last week when my son was making college applications and they needed a photocopy of his card.  We dug it out and noticed there was a mistake on it...under "Sex:" they had "F" instead of "M".  So I phoned up the INS and explained that they'd made a teeny-tiny mistake and could we please get a replacement card for my son ASAP.  They said it was going to cost us $360 for an "update of information" request and it would probably take 6 months to get through the system!!  I pointed out that this was their mistake - they said it was my fault for not checking the card when I got it!  Still, you can't argue with the INS - they said that it was illegal for my son to be here with a knowingly incorrect card - so we needed to get it fixed immediately or risk having him deported.  So I guess we're paying the $360 and waiting the six months.  I'm just hoping they don't demand that we return the old card before the new one appears or getting my kid into college could be a problem!  Sheesh!


 * As for working anywhere - that's great in theory - but it seems never to work out in practice. It turns out that telecommuting is not widely done in the games business - partly because they want to keep the game under wraps and not have stray copies on it on employee (and ex-employee) computers at home - and partly because of the equipment.  I have three PC's and six flat panel displays - plus a special 'developers' Xbox-360 and TWO special Playstation-3's (one in a large, rack-mountable box for doing development and another that looks like a normal Playstation-3 but with TEST written on it for doing special game testing).  I wouldn't have room at home for all that junk!
 * SteveBaker (talk) 15:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Uhh, Steve, I was the one who asked you about the rednecks. I'm the guy from the reference desk remember? 64.236.121.129 (talk) 14:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah - OK - sorry. It's hard to remember who is who from just an anonymous IP address. If you're planning on hanging around, here, you really should consider getting an account - it makes life easier on everyone. SteveBaker (talk) 15:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Can't you just remember my numbers? 64.236.121.129 (talk) 18:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No - sadly, all of my brain cells with numerical/logical capability are currently full of HLSL shader code. If I were to attempt to remember your IP address, I'll have to forget my social security number or something. SteveBaker (talk) 18:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Good grief!
In the (hopefully "after") aftermath of the Iamandrewrice storm - thanks for your comment on WP:RFCU and your WP:AN/I comments - I've been reading the stuff regarding that user on your archive. Good grief! I got involved about the time Jeffpw started having problems and frankly it didn't need any past history at that point (though the sockpuppetry was a surprise) to see where this might be going. The amount of time, effort and, well, sheer more effort that you put in there is a model to any editor considering getting up the Reichstag in dodgy red Lycra. Please accept one of these

Have you considered making your rationale about "why your nickname for your school is not a suitable article" into an essay? It seems to me to encapsulate a number of "Why this is a really bad idea" things in a very clear way!

Cheers Tonywalton Talk 01:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow! Thanks!  I hit 10,000 edits yesterday, my second year editing Wikipedia is tomorrow - and wonder of wonders, for the first time ever, I get TWO barnstars in one day!  I'm shutting down my laptop and sinking a beer because there is absolutely ZERO chance that anything else can possibly go right in Wiki-land today!


 * I got the strong impression that Iamandrewrice was redeemable. Sadly, it's clear that I was wrong about that - but I find it hard to shake the notion - hence my post to ANI.  This is in stark contrast to Wiarthurhu - who was an unredeemable pain in the butt whom the entire automobile project desperately wanted to be rid of. Oh well c'est la vie.


 * I'm not too thrilled with the idea of writing an essay - I'm not entirely convinced that the people who need to read them ever do - but I'll give it some consideration.


 * I'll carefully carry my new barnstar over to my User page and find a nice place to showcase it. Many thanks!
 * SteveBaker (talk) 02:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Steve... hi... thanks for your message on the ANI... but I would like to address the point that I am not lying... Im sure that if you observe my edits, and then compare them to the vandalistic attempts of the accounts I have suggested to be sockpuppets of Joeseth1992, you will see that we are different writers. I have no way to prove this to you however, but I am trying to tell the truth here. Yes I know I didnt get off to the best of starts on the site, and thank you for trying to guide me. However, I was behaving rather immaturely, and was in a bad mood... lets not go into why... but yes, I admit that my actions were rather impolite... and I have developed a lot as a wikipedian in such a short space of time. However, I have never once tried to vandalise... and although I know I shouldnt have lied for attention at first, pretending that I had sockpuppets, it is wrong to assume that all those accounts are me, just because they pretend they are. (This is the second time I have tried to write this... the first time, after I clicked 'save page,' i was told I was blocked from editing... and so lost everything I wrote... so if there are things I have missed out this time that I remember, I will come back and add them later...). All I want to do is contribute... and yes I know I have been moody... but, well... actually you wouldnt understand... but just look at this from my perspective from as much of my perspective you understand... Wikiaeiou (talk) 15:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI, Steve, Iamandrewrice has been banned. Tonywalton Talk 17:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Kind of a medical question, so I'm asking you personally
Lets say a person's furnace breaks, and has been leaking carbon monoxide for a little while. They find out about it, after an unknown period of time, and turn it off. But the people feel fine, no observable symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning. Should they go see a doctor to get checked out anyway? 64.236.121.129 (talk) 19:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If this were the reference desk (which it's not), I'd say that I can't answer medical questions here and if you are concerned, you should go see a doctor. However, this is my talk page...which is not subject to those rules.  So here, I could maybe offer some friendly advice...however, that would most certainly be at my own risk - and since I have no medical qualifications and if I were to attempt to diagnose or suggest treatment, then I could be sued for doing so.  The distinction is that here, I'm quite clearly answering on my own behalf on my own talk page and any risks are my own.  On the reference desk, it is the reference desk that's answering and that means that in the eyes of the rabid lawyers around the world, Wikipedia is at least somewhat to blame for any medical malpractice that might occur...so we have to be observant of the rules rather than using our own discretion.  In Wikipedia articles, it's yet another matter - in that case, the article is clearly not addressed at a single person - there is no way for it to be diagnosing a particular person's condition.  The reference desk is a different matter - there it is a response to a very specific question by a particular person and Wikipedia doesn't have that layer of deniability.


 * But seriously...what makes you think I'd know any more about this than these hypothetical victims do? I make mistakes in answering Ref Desk questions all the time (two so far today!) - if your health, wealth or general well-being is at stake, you need a MUCH better source of advice than someone you happened to bump into on the Internet!   But if you want to know whether the world is hollow (my favorite question of the day so far!) or what happens 10 million times per year or how many needles there are on an eight foot Xmas tree or whether making a solar panel produces more CO2 than the panel will conserve over it's lifetime...then I'm your man!  And if you really have been exposed to carbon-monoxide, then maybe you should see a doctor.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 20:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not me dude. Someone I know. I figured you might know, you seem to have a general repository of information. 64.236.121.129 (talk) 20:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Carbon monoxide poisoning would be your first stop for researching this. Carbon_monoxide_poisoning are the kinds of things to look out for. SteveBaker (talk) 21:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Been there, done that. Thanks anyway though. 64.236.121.129 (talk) 15:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Video game programmer
I noticed you state you work for Midway as a game programmer, ive been dieing to ask for the longest time what video games you have worked on. Sorry, and just point me to an archive if you have already answered this. Cheers. <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:#000000;">Esskater <font style="color:#000000;background:#00FF00;">11 02:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I can't talk about the game I'm working on right now - it won't be announced until a couple of months into next year - and won't be released until sometime in early 2009. I contributed in several small ways to Blacksite Area 51 and Stranglehold - but nothing very significant. I've only been a professional games writer for a little under a year.  Before that, I was designing flight simulators - mostly for the US Military, F117, F22, F35, F18, F16, and a bunch of army helicopters and UAV's.  There is a huge technological overlap between video games and flight simulators - so the switch from one to the other has been hardly noticable in many ways.  I've been writing OpenSourced games for 10 years - check out: Botzilla, Tuxkart, and the Lemur of Lima (which is a work-in-progress with my son) - I've also been working on a Nintendo DS game which is a lot of fun!   There have been lots of others.  The trouble is that these days there is simply too much artwork to do to make a 'credible' game as a one-man team. SteveBaker (talk) 03:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Midway huh? Announced next year? Projected release in early 2009 eh? If I were to guess, I would say... Mortal Kombat 8 (working title). 64.236.121.129 (talk) 15:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehehe! Actually, that's pretty funny - but for reasons I'm not allowed to explain! No, I'm not working on MK(N+1) - but I wouldn't be surprised if someone was.  This isn't a sequel of anything - it's a completely new title - so you wouldn't be able to guess it from stuff Midway has done before. SteveBaker (talk) 16:02, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I was about to ask you if you knew Ed Boon, but I didn't realize Midway had many studios in different parts of the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Games#Studios, I guess you work for the one in Austin. 64.236.121.129 (talk) 21:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Smartie pants
Steve, you're a smart guy. You have an enormous retention of knowledge and I see you answering questions on the Ref Desk all the time (your responses are usually superb, by the way). Have you ever had an IQ test? Just curious. --71.186.16.100 (talk) 04:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not very convinced by IQ tests - I think they primarily test how good you are at IQ tests rather than being a measure of any general capability. It's been years since I last took an official, paper test - and that scored 165 - I took an online test a year ago and got 172.   But what makes for good answers on the Ref Desk is mostly knowing how to search the web and Wikipedia efficiently.  I learn more from researching answers to questions than I could ever possibly remember.  I also think you over-estimate how well I answer them.  On a bad day (like Tuesday - which was especially bad), I make a lot of mistakes.  I also have Aspergers' Syndrome - which helps a lot with geeky stuff - but in general is a pain in the ass! SteveBaker (talk) 12:42, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Damn. Someone scored more than me &#9786; Of course, simply quoting a "score" means nothing without quoting which test you mean - Wechsler (the one MENSA uses, if I remember corerctly)/Stamford-Binet or whatever - as each has a different distribution. The Mensa criterion is "98th percentile or above on a recognised test" (which corresponds to 154 on the Wechsler scale, I believe). Simply quoting a score is like quoting a temperature - "it's 40 degrees today". Is that "flaming hot" (Celsius), "a bit chilly" (Fahrenheit)?  Cheers Tonywalton Talk


 * Actually, that's not exactly true. Almost all modern IQ scores are pretty much comparable these days - weighted such as to produce an average IQ of 100 with a gaussian distribution throughout the population and some agreed-upon standard deviation.  The problem is that the actual tests themselves may not have enough really easy or really tough questions to accurately probe the entire range.  So if you take the actual Wechsler test and your IQ is over about 140 or so, you'll probably score an easy 100% on the test and all it can say is "130 or better"...which sucks.  The problem is also that you have to test people's IQ in the 50 to 80 range as well - so there have to be an enormous number of really easy questions.  If you don't, then anyone under 80 will score a 0% and you won't have a clue whether their IQ is 50 or 80.  So if you put in enough questions to probe the ENTIRE range of normal human ability you get a ridiculously unwieldy test.  Smart people get exceedingly bored and start making stupid mistakes from fatigue - and people with below average IQ are so utterly bewildered by 99% of the questions and may very well simply give up on the test without scoring the few percent correct answers that they deserved to get.  So scores ought to be pretty much comparable - providing that you took a test appropriate to your range of ability.  (Which, if you are at all above average, probably means NOT Wechsler which caps out too soon.)


 * The first test I took was actually for Mensa entry - I forget which one - but it was one they recommended - so I presume its accuracy over the 130+ range would be pretty good or there would be no point. Once I got in, I was unimpressed by the people who were there (sure, they were smart - but also arrogant as all hell and pretty childish in many respects) so I left soon after.  The online test from last year (from the US Airforce training center - I took it with my son on a bet that I lost) claimed that it avoids the problem of being overly long by providing questions of varying difficulty according to your demonstrated ability - so the more early questions you get right, the harder the subsequent ones become.  It was certainly noticable how the difficulty ramped up rather rapidly.  However, like almost all modern tests, it was normalised to the Wechsler scale - but simply had wider applicability.


 * Our IQ article explains this stuff pretty well. But for all of that, I don't think IQ tests tell you much about anything beyond how much practice you've had at them.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 19:35, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, agreed. I left Mensa for the same reason - frankly I got bored with hanging around with a bunch of people whos main (or perhaps only) topics of conversation were how stupid everyone else was and how the World Would Be A Much Better Place If I Was In Charge. I can hear that down my local pub, with the added bonus of no-one feeling particularly superior to anyone else. Good point about the statistics of testing as well - I'll go and re-read that article soon! Tonywalton Talk 19:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Yet more praise for SteveBaker
Steve you by far are the best regular contributor to the reference desk, my question on DMT was answered in a fantastically logical and professional manner. I see your name often on the misc. desk and make the effort to read the question and your response even if I don’t understand the topic fully. I always find your input to a discussion interesting, so thanks for being an inspirational writer and providing intellectual contributions, which often make fascinating reading. RobertsZ (talk) 22:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Cheers for the advise on snorting flour you and the other people who replied have kind of put us off the idea, however the jokes not over were going to get some mints and carve the letter e into them should be just as funny. King Alaric (talk) 14:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * One of my favorite tricks to freak people out with is the "pre-sliced banana". You take a banana and a thin needle and some very fine thread. Thread the needle and then push it through the skin of the banana and out through the skin maybe a sixth of the way around the circumference - then pull some thread through - then push the needle back into the banana through the hole you just came out of and out again another 1/6th of the way around.  Repeat this procedure until you've gone all the way around and can bring the needle out through the hole you started with.  Now, very gently, pull on the two ends of the thread that are now coming out of that hole until the thread pulls all the way through the flesh of the banana and you can pull it out altogether.  What you've just done is cut the flesh of the banana in two leaving only a handful of tiny punctures through the skin that nobody will ever notice.  Do this again, five or six times along the length of the banana.  It takes a long time to do it properly - and you need to do prepare at least a couple of them.  Now, at lunch, you're going to make a banana sandwich - so bring bread - and when they express surprise that you're doing this - explain that this is the hot new trend in lunchfood...they won't believe you.  So tell your victim that this is SO hot that the local supermarket is now selling genetically engineered "pre-sliced" bananas.  They'll say you're nuts - so you peel your banana and show them that indeed, it's already neatly sliced!  They may presume a trick - but you can hand them your other banana and let them examine it and peel it themselves.  When you get practiced at doing this, you can actually go around the banana according to the flat sections of the skin so that the holes you make line up with the seams where the banana naturally splits - that makes it harder for the person to find the pinholes after the banana is peeled.  I've tried doing it with other fruit too - but the thick, blotch skin of the banana hides the pinholes nicely - and the flesh is soft enough that you can easily slice it with the thread.  I did manage to cut an apple in half this way once - but I needed very strong threadSteveBaker (talk) 14:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

A solution to car polution
I would like to know what types of things that we have allredy found out about car polution problems and when you answer this please dont be so discouraging =) --Sivad4991 (talk) 21:59, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I can be encouraging - or I can tell the truth. I prefer the latter - perhaps you'd prefer that I lied to you.  Really - it is the height of arrogance to assume that with zero knowledge about the field, you can waltz in and make any kind of a  contribution at all.  I mean, you quite literally can't even SPELL "pollution" (it has two l's OK) let alonte talk about it intelligently.  As recently as yesterday, you didn't know how it was linked to fuel consumption (which is really pretty basic stuff!) - and you didn't know what "dioxide" is.  Even if you do have a valid idea - do you really imagine that the car engineers and chemists who have been working on this problem for over 100 years haven't thought of whatever scheme you have in mind?  Without some basic (and I mean REALLY basic) understanding of chemistry and how cars work, your ideas are almost certainly going to be lame and exceedingly annoying to anyone who has that understanding.  You can't even talk to those people at the level that makes sense.  Do you know what MTBE is?  Do you know why Ethanol is being added to gasoline?  Do you know how a turbocharger works?  Do you know what a catalytic convertor does?  What about the EGR valve?  Truly - you can't make a contribution without a heck of a lot more background information than you have.  Sorry to be abrupt about it - but it's the truth and I don't want to lie to you. SteveBaker (talk) 22:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy Holidays
<div style="border: 2px solid #fff; margin: 0 0 0 0; padding: 10px 10px 10px 10px; background-color: red;"> <div style="margin-top: 3px; padding-top: 9px; padding-bottom: 9px; padding-left: 9px; padding-right: 9px; width: 250px;"> You got a Christmas card! → → →


 * Fixed. I am changing it on DOZENS of pages noe :-S Jeffpw (talk) 22:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

offer accepted
I look forward to it! Merry Christmas. Right now I am finishing up college applications (my dream school being Dartmouth College), so I will not be on as much until the end of January. But after that, it should be fun getting to know you and having your supprt as I gain experience in the world of Wikipedia. Niyant (talk) 08:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, well know now, I was never good with these about me things...so here goes! I'm a senior at my high school and applying to a ton of schools (well only 11, but that's at least 3 standard deviations from the average number). I'm my school's National Honor Society president, Model UN treasurer, medical club treasurer, and a numerous other activites along with being in the top 1% of my class (I usually never speak this boastingly). By the way, I'm on my school's Scholastic Bowl team, which could explain the WikiGnome attribute I embody. I run track for school and currently conditioning to become a distance runner from being a sprinter. I play soccer and basketball for clubs. Dartmouth is my top choice, mainly because of location and academics. I hope to go into the biological sciences, Asian studies, and economics - the end point being medical school. I'm also applying to UPenn, Notre Dame, and University of Virginia. I really don't care where I go, it's what I make of it once there. I found out (the hard way, of course) that education is pretty the same everywhere - it's all about the name =] . As far as my wikipedia experience, I have edited an array of subjects from time to time - but never as a member. I've no clue what I'm doing. I just know how to edit text. The buttons on the top while I write this are a mystery to me...Anyways, that's interesting you are from the UK. I know a few people from Leicester. That's pretty swell that your career involves video games, especially Midway. My particular favorite from Midway is Cruis'n USA. I play a lot of video games, but enjoy movies as well. I'm a huge movie fanatic and my plan is to watch the top 100 movies from the top movie list on imdb.

Well cheers, talk to you later. --Niyant (talk) 04:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Your site is brilliant Niyant (talk) 21:11, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Image og PLIB
Hi, I'm Francesco from Italy, I wanted to use the image: Blib_logo.png from the PLIB page into the italian wikipedia, but I can't do it since it is not on commons, but only on the english wikipedia image repository. Since you are the author of the Image, I would like to ask you if you can upload it in the common site (To share that image among all the other wikipedia). Thank in advance.--91.148.11.238 (talk) 10:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The PLIB Logo is now in Commons under: Image:Plib logo.png -- SteveBaker (talk) 20:32, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, you can see the it page here: PLIB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.148.11.238 (talk) 06:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

"Dedicated" would be an understatement
Many thanks - it's great to be appreciated! My second RefDesk barnstar! Now I can put one on either side of the mantlepiece. SteveBaker (talk) 04:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)