User talk:Steven Crossin/Archive 47

The Signpost: 30 April 2012

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 05:32, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Breach of promise
Since Djsasso has breached his promise & is moving articles to diacritics style. I'm gonna starte hiding/deleting diacritics on articles. GoodDay (talk) 19:54, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, you're not. Two wrongs don't make a right. Steven Zhang  Talk 19:56, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Then will you tell him to reverse his page moves? GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It really depends on in what capacity he's done the page move. If he's done the page move to enact the consensus of a requested move, then no. Let me think it over for a few hours, but I would strongly dissuade you from removing diacritics from articles. Steven Zhang  Talk 20:03, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm removing them from NHL-based articles. Djsasso promised (as did I) to stay away from diacritics, but he's since returned to participating at diacritics RMs (which is why I did) & is now page moving. GoodDay (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Doing one thing for the sole reason that another editor is doing the opposite is the textbook definition of disruptive editing, and will get you blocked. Don't do it. Steven Zhang  Talk 20:14, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've already begun hiding them on North American based articles, which was/is the agreement at WP:HOCKEY. I haven't & don't intend to contact Djsasso. Remember, not fiddling with diacritics, was an informal agreement between myself & Djsasso. He breached the contract (so to speak) & now it's void. PS: Don't worry, I'm not going on a rampage. GoodDay (talk) 20:18, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied at . Steven Zhang  Talk 21:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

ANI notice
Please be aware of Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents.  MBisanz  talk 20:01, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Recall procedure
Hi there. I have chosen you as one of the editors who may request my resignation as part of my my recall procedure. Could you have a look, and confirm whether you're happy being on the list? Thanks. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 17:08, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'd be glad to. Steven Zhang  Talk 19:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 May 2012

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 01:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Your bot has a new task
Not sure if you noticed this edit, but it gave me a bit of a chuckle. Anyway, if possible, it might be best to take off whatever list he's on that means he keeps getting meetup invites. Cheers, Jenks24 (talk) 06:36, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi
Greetings. You seem to be in the role of mentor to User Good Day, is there anything I should know before replying to his entrance onto my talk page? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:31, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, he seems to have come and gone. Odd. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. It's back, it was up the page where I couldn't see it, have moved it down to end of my page and his. Drop me a line if you have any reservations with the way I'm handling GoodDay's concerns. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but do need to ask your advice now. I'm getting "following" and very odd editing from GoodDay. I understand he feels very strongly about foreign names but his editing practices, and communication, goes some way beyond that of others. Are you in a position to give advice? In ictu oculi (talk) 00:13, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep an eye on it. If it continues, let me know. Steven Zhang  Talk 11:47, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You asked me to let you know, it has been less disruptive, until just now: I'd truly like to believe this was coincidence. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Howdy Steven. Just making a note: I see that In ictu oculi, has gone back to making unilateral page moves to diacritics, bypassing the RM stage. GoodDay (talk) 20:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 May 2012

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Congrats and welcome!
Just saw the announcement that you're a new Fellow. Congrats! Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager 12:23, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll be working really hard on this - I have a lot to achieve in a short amount of time, so you'll be seeing a lot from me :-) Steven Zhang  Talk 12:33, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, Steve, and good luck! AGK  [•] 21:48, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Best of luck SZ -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  02:54, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations Steve! Mythio (talk) 12:26, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Congrats, Steven. I too, just read about the fellowship and wanted to add my thanks. Your work here at the project has been tremendous, but making DRN a reality was a miracle and only happened because of the HUGE amount of hours you put in on it. And I think it's been very sucessful.
 * I have a related question. Are you seeking input from others for your fellowship work? I have a few ideas/comments about dispute resolution on the project if you're looking for input, but I don't want to mess anything up if you've already got an outline and schedule your following. Best regards. 64.40.57.45 (talk) 02:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. You give me too much credit for DRN. With my fellowship, I am seeking input from others. Because most of my activities as a volunteer surround improving dispute resolution, and this is partially also what my fellowship revolves around, the lines are slightly blurred, but I do have a lot I want to achieve in dispute resolution over the coming months. Whether that's done in my capacity as a fellow or as a volunteer, I don't mind, as long as it gets done. But yes, please feel free to send any thoughts/feedback/suggestions, either via talk or email. Regards, Steven Zhang  Talk 05:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, Steven, that looks really impressive. And yet, somehow, we're supposed to believe that you can't be trusted with the mop? I'll tell you what, when you finish this fellowship thing, what's say we nominate you to be the first-ever crat who wasn't a sysop first, eh?  (By the way, I know your nature is such that you disapprove of my comments here, if only for their bitter tone.  But someone has to speak up for the truth!) HuskyHuskie (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * As always, I appreciate your passion. However, being selected for a Wikimedia fellowship based on my experience and skills is separate to earning the trust of the community with regards to adminship. I'd never stand for crat, even if one day I did become an admin. I have plenty keeping me busy at present, but again appreciate your comments. Regards, Steven Zhang  Talk 21:46, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "please feel free to send any thoughts/feedback/suggestions" Thanks. Do you mind if I create User talk:Steven Zhang/Fellowship for commenting? And since HuskyHuskie brought it up, I was certain your RFA was going to succeed. It was sad when a few commenters focused on an event from many, many years ago. You've been a model Wikipedian and a fine example to others, and I beieve your help with admin chores would have been a welcome addition to the community. I was sorry to see you withdraw, but I certainly understand it. IPs can't vote, but if they could, you certainly would have had my support. Anyhoo, thanks for all your efforts. There are many people that appreciate all the work you've done over the years. All the best. 64.40.57.41 (talk) 18:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course, go ahead. I too was disappointed that my RFA didn't succeed - especially since practically everyone told me I'd pass. But sometimes these things happen for a reason. If I had passed, I likely wouldn't have had time to focus on dispute resolution so much and thus would not have become a fellow. Maybe I'll try again someday, but I'm quite content doing what I am doing for the time being :-). Regards, Steven Zhang  Talk 22:17, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I think your fellowship is far more important to the project than adminship would have been. I've created the talk page and added a comment. Thanks. 64.40.57.54 (talk) 02:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I just read about what you are doing in the Signpost at Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-05-21/News_and_notes. Congratulations on your fellowship and good luck on the tough job of describing the dispute resolution process. You have been involved in a lot of drama so I appreciate how appropriate you are for this kind of job, and I hope that you find success for Wikipedia. We talked a couple of months ago and you were kind to call me, but I never returned your call or email. I still want to talk to you someday but now is not quite the time. Will you be at Wikimania in DC this July? If so, I would like to meet you there. Good luck in your endeavors. I like everything you are doing and I expect you to set a precedent for how editors in controversy can use that experience for inspiration to make things better for everyone.  Blue Rasberry    (talk)   18:40, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. Thanks for your comments :-). It's pretty hard work what I've been doing lately, but well worth it. Yes, I will be at Wikimania DC, and look forward to meeting you there. As always, I'm available via email if you want to chat. Regards, Steven Zhang  Talk 23:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

/old suffix in AfD, e.g. Talk:Statesman/old
Hi. Can you please have a look at User talk:King of Hearts, in connection with Articles for deletion/Statesman? Cheers. -- Trevj (talk) 12:52, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 21 May 2012

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 03:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your help
I appreciate the assistance with resolving the dispute at Corrections Corporation of America webpage. Thank you for walking me through this. I hope I've done this correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Activist (talk • contribs)
 * You're welcome :-) Steven Zhang  Talk 23:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

User:GoodDay
I see you are already familiar with the diacritics issue re: your "mentee". Today he made this edit to the Zoë Baird article, and more worryingly he has been deleting messages posted to his talk page.

Some background: during discussions at various Requested Move surveys I brought up Chloë Grace Moretz and Chloë Sevigny as non-"foreign" English names that have diacritics, and if I recall correctly he claimed the use of diacritics here represented mere "stage names" of actors. I then brought up Zoë Baird, who is a (presumably native-born) American lawyer, and therefore the claimed "stage name" issue is not applicable. Now he has actually made this seemingly absurd edit which really adds nothing to the article, as though it was necessary to supply an English transliteration of an English name, but the main issue is his very thin-skinned reaction. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 05:43, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've left a comment on his talk page regarding the issue. Regards, Steven Zhang  Talk 06:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I really am beginning to hate this place (i.e. Multiple language Wikipedia). One editor is allowed to unilaterally move pages to diacritics titles, while another editor is attacked for adding English version of a name to the articles intro. Apparently the Europeans have taken over former-English Wikipedia. What's next to be changed to diacritics? article content itself? GoodDay (talk) 13:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Steven, a few hours ago I left a complaint on the user's talk page (not knowing anything about his/her issues) and it was quickly deleted with the edit summary Removing provocation. I have had no previous interaction with this user. Xanthoxyl  &lt; 14:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've read your post & I'm allowed to delete it. Right now, I'm peeved with the increased activity to promote diacritics across English Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Joke RFA
User:Yasht101/Yasht101 Is An ALIEN RfA on April Fool's Day. Pine✉ 10:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Globalization of Religion
Hello Steven, my name is Chris Vondrell and I am a student at the University of Cincinnati. In my Sociology of Religion class we must create a Wikipedia stub for a certain topic. I have chosen the Globalization of Religion. If you could review my article and tell me anything htat needs to be added or taken away that would be very helpful. Thanks for your time! -Chris (Chrisvrulez (talk) 18:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_religion

Congratulations on new role
I just noticed the article in the Signpost about your new role. Congratulations! WP needs some coordination on content dispute resolution, and it is good to see someone who can act as a focal point. If you need volunteers for anything, let me know. I have lots of experience with content-based RfCs. As far as the overall process for content dispute resolution, in my opinion the three biggest areas of improvement are: Anyway, good luck to you! --Noleander (talk) 01:32, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) A well-defined, step-by-step process that is simple and clear (it looks like you may be making progress there with the DRN. The next step would be making the escalation to RfC and/or mediation clearer)
 * 2) For major content disputes: a process that creates a semi-binding resolution (perhaps an ArbCom for content disputes?).  It could be as simple as 3 uninvolved  "judges" for major RfCs that come up with a semi-binding decision.  This has happened with several major RfCs in the past (closing admins: sometimes singly; sometimes a group of 3) but it is not a well defined process.
 * 3) Mediation: make it mandatory. It makes absolutely no sense for a party to be able to sabatoge the entire mediation process (formal or informal) by refusing to participate.  Mediation - once that stage of the dispute resolution process is reached - should be something that is mandatory  - in the sense that it moves forward.  Of course, nothing can compel editors to participate; but that silence would be taken into account by the mediator.
 * Thanks! If you're looking to help, we need volunteers for DRN - lots more :-) (see my signature). There's a few things I'm working on at the moment, both are referred to at Wikipedia_talk:DRP and Wikipedia_talk:DRP. To your comments:
 * a) Part of what we are discussing is a way to simplify dispute resolution, possibly by consolidating many boards in to one, thus channeling all our manpower into one location, hopefully encouraging participation.
 * Sounds good. Maybe go incrementally:  Just consolidate the content-oriented Noticeboards into DRN.  Start with RS, OR, NPOV, etc.   Trying to include the behavior-oriented noticeboards may cause too much opposition (wikipedians love to oppose suggestions :-)  Consider a piecemeal approach:  merge-in one content noticeboard into DRN board every six months.   --Noleander (talk) 14:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * b) We need some process to help break the back of intractable content disputes. I did propose WP:BCD some time back, but it never got much traction. I do think that any binding content proposal should be centred around the community, and not the creation of a content committee. Unpopular idea.
 * Okay, if an analog of ArbCom is not going to fly now, consider a community based approach: Designate some important RfCs as "important" or something like that.  Three uninvolved closers must close Important RfCs.  If all 3 are unanimous, the result is enforced for some fixed period (say, one  year) and after that, the issue can be re-opened.   Process for non-important RfCs would be unchanged. --Noleander (talk) 14:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * c) Mandatory mediation...hmm...dunno. There have been changes that some of us have been discussing to make mediation more resistant to stonewalling, but I can't really let the cat out of the bag just yet :-)
 * I would support any process improvement that makes mediation more resistant to a single editor holding the process hostage.  I like the rule: "if there are 3 or more partys, and 2 or more participants agree to mediation, then it goes forward and the results are semi-binding on the parties that refused to participate".   I know that the theory of real-world mediation is that all must assent, but the experience in WP shows that we should not follow that real world model: we cannot let obstinate editors hold the process hostage. --Noleander (talk) 14:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Steven  Zhang  Get involved in DR! 12:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppet_investigations/81.247.52.36
I have no intention of fishing, I merely thought that the evidence provided was sufficient to justify a CU. Would you look again at this issue if I supply diff's? Please note that IP geolocation is not perfectly accurate but does place at least two of the IP's in the same immediate area. ' Ankh '. Morpork  13:15, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The main problem here is that you're requesting an IP to be linked to a username - something a CU will generally decline to do in most situations. In this situation, the user is neither blocked nor banned, so I am inclined to decline a CU anyway. A CU wouldn't have any effect either, as Noisetier hasn't edited in nearly six months. My advice would be to present as much evidence as possible, and we can make a determination based on evidence. Regards, Steven   Zhang  Get involved in DR! 13:20, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The username was added as an afterthought to this SPI ; as you state, the Noisetier account is inactive so can you proceed just against the IP's then.' Ankh '. Morpork  13:30, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No real need. We can get the info needed from geolocation, and base the rest on behaviour. Steven   Zhang  Get involved in DR! 13:40, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok. I shall provide diffs linking them.' Ankh '. Morpork  13:45, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Done so. Please take a look when you have time. If you wish further clarification, please state so and I shall happily seek to provide it.' Ankh '. Morpork  14:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

?' Ankh '. Morpork  12:50, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I recognise that Noisetier is not a banned user and has been inactive for a while. Is it possible to take action just against the IP's as there is definite sockpuppetry taking place.' Ankh '. Morpork  13:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really, no. The first two IPs are in the same range, so in that situation it's very likely they just got assigned another dynamic IP address. With the last IP, it's some distance away. Might be travelling? Absent any serious abuse, I'm not sure if any action is required in this situation. Steven   Zhang  Get involved in DR! 13:45, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened
An arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located at Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 12, 2012, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 21:59, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Howdy Steven. I probably wouldn't have gotten steamed up (a few days ago), if those mass page-moves to diacritics had been stopped. There should be a freeze on such moves until English Wikipedia comes up with a 'clear' directive on diacritics usage. Concerning article titles - I'd recommend dios for bio articles & no-dios for non-bios articles. GoodDay (talk) 22:57, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The only people that can authorise such a freeze is the Arbitration Committee, and I am not sure if they would do so in this situation. The precedent to do this, however, would exist at the [Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Episodes_and_characters_2#Temporary_injunction|Episodes and characters 2]] arbitration case, but as the scope of the arbitration case is regarding your conduct, I'm not sure if they'd consider it. Steven   Zhang  Get involved in DR! 23:06, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I too, am not sure Arbcom would consider it, but such a freeze would be helpful. I remember recommending such a freeze at one of the many diacritics discussions (can't remember where or when), but certain editors wouldn't budge. GoodDay (talk) 23:41, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Anyways, I've been able to avoid making direct contact with Djsasso :) GoodDay (talk) 23:45, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Jeepers, one can't even add 'well sourced' material to an article anymore, see Zoe Baird article. GoodDay (talk) 13:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 May 2012

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 09:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Mabeenot (talk) 00:05, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Congrats
let me congratulate you  belatedly  on  your fellowship. 'Bout time you ran at RfA again... ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah...I'd fail faster than you can say...well, I dunno. I'd fail though. :-) Steven   Zhang  Get involved in DR! 02:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Getting a fellowship  is much  harder than  adminship - they don't give them to people my age! I'd probably also fail if I ran for RfA  again, especially since a mockery was made of my attempts to improve it ;)  Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I still reckon I'd fail. Maybe I'll try one day. I dunno. Steven   Zhang  Get involved in DR! 02:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

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