User talk:Steven Rich in Panama

Welcome!
Hello, Steven Rich in Panama, and welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your recent contributions, such as your edit to the page List of companies of Panama, seem to be advertising or for promotional purposes. Wikipedia does not allow advertising. For more information on this, please see: If you still have questions, there is a new contributors' help page, or you can write   below this message along with a question and someone will be along to answer it shortly. You may also find the following pages useful for a general introduction to Wikipedia: I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! Grayfell (talk) 23:34, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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Talkback
De728631 (talk) 19:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Dear Cullen328 and any other editors who may see this.

I have been working with Grayfell and followed allow of his suggestions. He placed my article from my sandbox to a Draftspace to see if any other editors would have suggestions, but after two weeks, no one has made any suggestions (one editor visited 2 times but made no suggestions). I have done everything which I have been asked to do to get this article ready for publication. But, I do not know what to do next. Here is a link to the Draftspace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Real_estate_in_Panama Any suggestions will be appreciated. Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 20:38, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Talkback
Grayfell (talk) 23:45, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Sandbox article
Hello again. I've made a number of changes to your draft article: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Steven_Rich_in_Panama/sandbox&diff=676475581&oldid=676280024 Your previous edits are still in the article's history: I could certainly do a lot more before publishing it, but I'm hoping that this will help demonstrate the kind of changes that you can expect when the article goes live. (As a reminder, you are free to revert the changes I made if you think that's necessary, but per Ownership of content, the article will be 'fair game' once it's published.)

The only content changes I have made have been to the first few paragraphs, the remaining changes were technical ones. Wikipedia articles should use 'typewriter' quotation marks instead of 'curly' ones, per MOS:QUOTEMARKS. This isn't something you need to worry about, but I thought I would explain it, since it makes the above link appear even more drastic than it is.

I have removed a lot of content that seemed tangential to the topic, which will probably be Real estate in Panama, to keep it consistent with similar articles elsewhere on Wikipedia. I understand your desire to supply background context, and I'm sure you're more aware than I am of the kinds of misconceptions people have about Panama, but it was still to much. The article isn't going to be a good place to explain the similarities between Panama and the US's 3-branch presidential democracy, it's just too far outside the main point and makes Panama seem more appealing to investors than is factually supported by the attached sources.

That brings me to my next point: Some of those sources were not acceptable. A very lengthy section was sourced to a post on http://panamaadvisoryinternationalgroup.com/blog/ While that may be a fine site, it doesn't appear to be a WP:RS. If you want the article to explain that "Panama has a specific law protecting foreign investments" it should be supported by reliable WP:SECONDARY sources that directly link it to real estate in some way. A news article explaining why this law was passed would be one example.

"Panama is considered safe to invest in" is WP:WEASEL words. Unless Panama is uncontroversially considered a safe investment by the overwhelming majority of experts, this needs to be clearly attributed in the article. Since the section goes on to mention complaints to the U.S. State Department, this doesn't seem entirely uncontroversial. The two sources you cite are a travel guide and an anonymous notice from "Panama Offshore Legal Services" which judging by their website has a very clear financial incentive to promote investment, and cannot be considered neutral for this point, even if it was otherwise usable.

I think you may want to look closer at other articles to see how lead sections are done on Wikipedia. They are not an introduction exactly, rather, they are a summary. Per Manual of Style/Lead section: "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview".

Finally, for now, while you don't have to include information on the past history of the topic, you should structure the article in such a way that future expansion is possible. Focusing on 2006-2015 is acceptable for now, but it's clearly not all there is to real estate in Panama. Likewise, starting out with "Investment security" as the very first section is tipping your hand that you've written this from the perspective of someone who's very focused international investment, but that leaves very little room for local issues. Poverty vs. gentrification, bubbles, or any of the other things that would reasonably be in an overview of a nation-level topic are overlooked or given only minimal attention. You mention that "Reuters claims Panama's construction boom may be fueled by illegal drug money..." That seems like a very important part of the topic, but it's tucked away near the bottom, and the use of WP:CLAIM undermines the story's validity.

Anyway, I will continue to work on the article, but hopefully this has been useful. Grayfell (talk) 08:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Grayfell,

I have no problem with your removing text and I will leave them as deleted.

I have added more text to the Introduction and added a new Section called "Poverty". I deleted the year 2015 so anyone can add to the History since 2006 to cover the remainder of this year and future years.

I added more details about the authors who think Panama is safe to invest in. I was surprised to find that Christopher Howard has published 15 books about different Central and South American countries as a Guide towards Retiring & Investing. Maybe he is too biased in favor of investing in all 15 countries and him as a source should be deleted? I don't know.

My HP keyboard only has the " " symbols, I did copy the straight ones from your message to me and pasted them on the new additions. Should I do this for every quote and footnote?

Let me know if there is anything else I need to do to this article. Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 19:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm in and out today, so I will take a proper look at the article later, but just so you know, you don't have to worry about the curly-quotes. It's something that some computers do automatically, and it's much easier to fix occasionally after the fact than it is to worry about during every edit. It's not worth going through too much hassle over. Grayfell (talk) 20:04, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Greyfell, It has been a week since we last communicated here. I am done with my editing and additions and I need to know if there is anything else which needs to be done to this article so it qualifies for publication. I really appreciate all of your help with this article. Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 17:03, 25 August 2015 (UTC) --- Hello Grayfell, It is now 2 weeks since I last received help from you regarding this article. Other than news story updates as they happen, I am done with this article and hope you will find time to review it again and advise me if it is ready to be published or needs more corrections. Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Draftspace
Hello. Sorry about the delay. I have moved your article to Draft:Real estate in Panama, as that will help invite additional editors to review and work on the article. I'm reluctant to publish the article yet, as I think it needs additional work.

The lead is still too far outside of Wikipedia's WP:MOS. The lead must stand on its own, not act as an introduction. Having the lead specifically mention what will be explained in the rest of the article is not consistent with Wikipedia's style guidelines. Instead, the lead should be able to act as a stand-alone summary of the article entirely by itself. Many mobile browsers, search engines, and other sites which use Wikipedia focus on the lead. This includes sites and applications designed for impaired users (Manual of Style/Accessibility). Again, please review MOS:LEAD.

Additionally, the tense is inconsistent. Sections about past years should not be written in the present tense, as this is needlessly confusing.

If you disagree, you can submit the article to Articles for creation (in this case, this would be done by inserting the code as described in the first paragraph, not by creating a new article). This will bring it to the attention of other editors who are experienced with this process for review. Alternately, you can publish the article yourself, although as I said, I really don't think it's ready. Grayfell (talk) 01:08, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Grayfell, Thank you for your comments. I don't disagree with your suggestions. I want to produce an article which meets Wikipedia standards. I will read the cites you provided to better understand what I need to do to improve the Lead. I will also change the past years to reflect past tense. I think I was putting myself in that particular year and writing as the news stories were dictating what was happening at the time, in present tense. Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 02:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Grayfell, I changed all of the present tense words in the 2006 - 2015 sections to past tense. I also changed the Lead to stand by itself and shortened it. If you or anyone else has more suggestions for improving this article, I will appreciate it. Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 20:30, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Grayfell, After a week of having my article placed in the Drafts section I noticed someone else visited here, but did not make any suggestions. Since no one has made suggestions, could you please look at the changes I made a week ago to see if they followed your suggestions? Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 15:15, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Editors, After adapting good suggestions made by Grayfell last September 2nd, there have been visitors looking at my Draft here, but no further suggestions. What should I do now to get this article ready for publication? Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 16:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Help me!
Please help me with my DraftSpace where my article about Panama Real Estate has been dormant for weeks where one editor (who was very helpful) moved it from my Sandbox hoping other editors would notice it and give suggestions to improve it. However, while one editor visited two times, no one has made any suggestions. Here is the link to the article in the DraftSpace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Steven_Rich_in_Panama#Draftspace

Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 15:14, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I've taken a look at the article and it appears it just needs copyediting. For example, the lead isn't in the correct format as it needs to identify what the subject is about, taking a look at other articles similar to this and comparing them will help you greatly. If you need any help please consider replying to me using on here, or asking on my talk page. --I am   Kethrus    Talk to me!   15:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear I made changes to the Lead which I hope will make it an acceptable Lead. Please review and advise. Also, if anything else need copyediting.  Thanks.

Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 15:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Now it has a lead, it's more likely to be accepted. I can't guarantee it'll be accepted as I have only had a quick read over, but if you've taken a look at WP:GNG and WP:42, and relevant notability guidelines for the topic, and it is properly sourced - it should be okay. -- Kethrus &#124;talk to me 14:39, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Help me! Need Help Getting My Article Published
Please help me with publishing my article which was moved from my Sandbox a month ago into a Draftspace where 2 editors have given me all the advice they could. One dealt with the citations and removed many which were not acceptable as a source. I also got formatting help. Another helped me with my Lead. Others visited my Draftspace but did not offer suggestions. I followed every suggestion from the two editors. There seems nothing left to do but to publish it. While in my Sandbox I could have Clicked the button to get it Published, but I don't have that feature in my Draftspace. How do I take it into the next level towards publishing it?

Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 21:16, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Steven Rich in Panama (talk) 21:16, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Steven, I've submitted your draft for review. You should receive a reply within the next two weeks. Primefac (talk) 21:28, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Real estate in Panama (September 23)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Samtar was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Real estate in Panama and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Real_estate_in_Panama Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Samtar&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Real_estate_in_Panama reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also get Wikipedia's Live Help real-time chat help from experienced editors.

samtar (msg) 09:00, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Real estate in Panama has been accepted
 Real estate in Panama, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! samtar (msg) 09:39, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Real_estate_in_Panama help desk] .
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