User talk:Stevertigo/Archive 4

Dear Stevertigo,

sorry, it's not clear enough what do you mean by: &#1042;&#1099;&#1089;&#1096;&#1080;&#1081;&#1072; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077;&#1090; &#1089;&#1083;&#1077;&#1076;&#1091;&#1077;&#1090; &#1076;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100; &#1082; &#1087;&#1077;&#1088;&#1077;&#1074;&#1086;&#1076;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100; &#1072;&#1088;&#1093;&#1080;&#1074;.php &#1103;&#1079;&#1099;&#1082;&#1072; &#1079;&#1076;&#1077;&#1089;&#1100; -- &#1073;&#1099;&#1090;&#1100; &#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1086;&#1088;&#1086;&#1078;&#1085;&#1099;&#1084; &#1080;&#1079;&#1073;&#1077;&#1078;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100; &#1080;&#1079;&#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100; &#1050;&#1086;&#1076;&#1077;&#1075;&#1086; -- &#1089;&#1084;&#1086;&#1090;&#1088;&#1080;&#1090; &#1076;&#1088;&#1091;&#1075;&#1080;&#1077; &#1072;&#1088;&#1093;&#1080;&#1074;&#1099;.php &#1103;&#1079;&#1099;&#1082;&#1072; &#1076;&#1083;&#1103; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074;. Could you explain it to me in english? Drbug 10:01, 2 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Steve, when you get back, please think about how you can contribute without yanking RK's chain so much. You know he's sensitive; please try not to irritate him. Remember, "A soft answer turneth away wrath." --Uncle Ed 15:44 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

No idea what u mean by vandalized. i was making a test. Hfastedge 06:03 Feb 13, 2003 (UTC)

I have restored all the information Jennifer presented, based on her comments and Danny's added info. Based on these arguments you have swayed me to your position: I now agree with you that it would be appropriate to discuss this in the entry on Jewish fundamentalism. I was using too restricted a definition of this term. RK

Well done, Stevert, on calling the cops re that suicide note. I hope everything worked out OK for that guy. Even if it was a prank (and we had no way of knowing) you did the right thing. JTD 00:33 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

Hey that Happened on 2/16 may be it was a prank by User:Two16

Some questions regarding recent articles:


 * John Draize redirects to a non-existent article. Why? This obviously cannot work.
 * Any press is good press is not even a dictionary entry. It is just a phrase, the background of which is better placed in an article about media, press, publicity etc. The one sentence pseudo-stub doesn't state anything non-obvious. Why did you create that one?
 * Political regressivism is a term that does not exist in any dictionary or on any website. I seem to recall that you previously added terms which had no verifiable usage; please don't do that.

Regressivism is on Votes for deletion, I will add the other two unless you have some good reasons for keeping them. --Eloquence 03:16 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

What just happened?

I shortened the title of that article, - redirecting it to a new page. Welcome to the Wikipedia - nothing stays the same... you should get a username so I can have a face to type to. -PackardGoose

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You have a good point. I've always been of the opinion that racists may have good ideas, but they oversimplify. It's easier to say that the Jews or the blacks or the Punjabis are keeping us good folk down than to know and understand that the money- and power-grubbing elite in every society have always been keeping the common man down, and that this is true from the US to Japan to Mozambique. Anybody smart enough to become rich and powerful is perfectly aware that racial differences are irrelevant in any meaningful way, but it's easier for ignorant people to blame the Jews or whatever than to really understand the causes and effects of poverty and war. Tuf-Kat

You raise a reasonable question on the Wagner page -- what point. Only someone who has done some research can answer this question. I am by no means an expert on Wagner (although personally I love his music); I have read only enough to know that many scholars hold this view about his music, so I know a good encyclopedia article will treat the issue. I am not committed to working on this article beyond making this point. You seem to be much more active so all I can do is suggest that you read the Bernard Williams' article and Rose's book, and look to see if there are critical reviews of Rose's book and letters to the editor responding to Williams' article, and then you will be able to answer your own question (to my and others' benefit). Slrubenstein

About the organization of the article -- I think there is a matter of politics within his music (what Wagner was trying to communicate through his music) (and as you point out, some music really is "in itself" political, like much rap and reggae -- of course there are different kinds of politics; one can say NWA was political in that it protested the police establishment, and in that it was misogynist -- these are two different kinds of politics based on different ways of interpreting music) and then there is the politics surrounding the music (how different people responded to Wagner's music); these should be two sections but I think both are central to the article, and my point is that the first one is central to his music -- at least, according to many scholars who have studied Wagner and his music. Slrubenstein

Hi Sv, Zoe has changed the name of the 'UN security Council and the War on Iraq' to 'UN security Council and the War with Iraq', believing the first was POV. I don't think changing the word 'with' to 'on' solves the problem. on and with are both used, the former by anti-war people, the latter by pro-war people. So we have just moved one POV and replaced it for another. I've another suggestion: instead call it ' The UN Security Council and the proposed Iraq war'. That way you avoid any hint of bias, by dropping all words that could be seen as in any way expressing a POV and instead calling it a term that all sides would be able to use: the Proposed Iraq War. What do you think? I'd welcome your comments on the relevant talk page. JTD 00:45 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)

No problem. I forgot that the server's in a different time zone, though, so the edits I took to be yesterday's may in fact have been recently. But anyway. Maybe the discussion will be more calm & civil later. Koyaanis Qatsi

Hi, just a quick note to that it is best not to characterize anyone in a negative way in talk pages or the summary field -- leave me a clean "paper trail" of kindness, and it makes enforcing our policies a lot cleaner. Jimbo Wales 05:54 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * Jimbo fed me the same line. In the end, it didn't help, the audit trail was ignored and the easy route taken. --Clutch

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Any appearance of Shania Twain on CMT is abhorrent to all that is good and true in the world. That doesn't mean I've never watched her videos muted, when I hadn't had a date in a while, but that is why God invented Cinemax, not CMT... Did you ever see the ridiclousness at Talk:Country music, where someone tried to claim Twain was "alt-country"? Tuf-Kat

vERY BUSY CONGRATULATION ON YOUR RESSURECTION TWO16

Stevertigo, it's up to you to keep Iraq crisis, 2003 up to date and complete it. Obviously it needs to be there. Just as obviously, Maveric149, TheAnome, JimboWales and Larry Sanger believe that this project is their personal playground, and that their personal biases are far more important than oh say an NPOV statement of all the real issues and consequences around the Iraq crisis.

They have shown their pettiness and lack of relevance to the future, and what is more, their paranoia and commitment to "outing", labelling, libel, slander and abuses of all kinds. It's up to you, TheCunctator, and other intelligent people, to keep the project alive. I suggest you start by advocating the removal of sysop power from the above people on a rotating basis. Get them to give up the power they abuse, temporarily, and perhaps they will find other ways to overcome their personal inadequacies. I am quite sure the project will die, dead, if their personal biases and petty choices of priorities are allowed to overwhelm the real goals of the Wikipedia and GNU FDL.

Here is some stuff that belongs in the Iraq crisis: - 26 February 2003, Bush commits publicly to a democracy in Iraq; Saddam Hussein rules out exile in an interview with Dan Rather;  Both sides in the UN Security Council reject Canada's compromise proposal for a firm deadline of March 28 - Germany and France remain committed to "no deadline" and the US to push hard on the March 1 deadline for Iraq to begin dissassembling its missiles.

Also, the crisis is not specifically about 'Iraq refusing to disarm'. Taht is the US position/excuse. The crisis is about the spread of nuclear and large scale biological capacity to a state that is outside the bounds of what developed nations consider predictable, and according to Bush also, the spread of democracy into the Arab world, and curtailing terrorism. The opening lines should be fixed.

The list of impacts needs to be exhaustive, I hope you can manage the task - 142


 * Yeah, but youre a nut 142, so that makes you all even! :) -&#35918&#30505


 * Never claimed any moral superiority (the surest sign of actual moral superiority ;-) ), nor powers to enforce it (not necessary if you really are right). Just want a fair process to apply to actually achieve NPOV.  You are more committed to that than them, and maybe more than me, whatever.  It's more important that the actual Iraq situation be reported in a way that isn't US-centric, or idiot-centric, or nut-centric if you must.  Else it's just more backsliding into cliques.  Scary that you're the only guy objecting to censorship based on *who wrote* an article rather than based on *what it says*... but hey the USA is paranoid these days. Again, best of luck.  142

Good renaming of the US plan to invade Iraq page. My own POV would have been close to the original name, but we need NPOV here and your name is much better. JTD 01:16 Feb 28, 2003 (UTC)

Hey, thanks. &#22533 &#29483

Thanks for the (I presume) Chinese characters for my user name... I've been trying changing the encoding on my browser but so far have had no luck in getting it to display as anything other than a pair of rectangles. Do you have a handy link to anything explaining what I need to do to see it? Wondering simply, Clueless Frog Infrogmation

Yes, Ride+Theory. See: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.11/streetcred.html?pg=8 ridetheory

Hello. I'm afraid I don't understand how the paragraph which you added to Engrish on 13 January 2003 fits in with the rest of the article. I don't suppose you could reword it a bit, so that I understand what's going on, could you? Thanks! :) -- Oliver P. 03:46 Mar 1, 2003 (UTC)

Your drawing of the Wikipede is great! --mav
 * danke. Just a goofy sketch.. - &#35918&#30505

I never said it was wrong to blank pages that have been vandalized. The pages I mentioned were vanity pages, completely unnecessary but not offensive. THOSE should not be blanked. -- Goatasaur -- stever, I know you're down, could you find where to put the information at http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html and add it to the wikipedia?


 * Nice story, isn't it? I already inserted it onto the current events page, but it'll definitely have to be put in a few of the articles as well. Why don't you (anonymous) do it? --snoyes 15:01 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

You've lost me with your comments about tenure.

Excellent renaming of the [AIDS kills fags dead] page. As a gay man deeply irritated by that page's name, I am more than happy to see the remaing. *RESPECT* as they say :) JtdIrL 23:34 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

Good renaming job again. I've made two changes. I've replaced the redirect in the two titles 'AIDS Kills Fags Dead' slogan and AIDS Kills Fags Dead with the following:

For information on Aids Kills Fags Dead and other statements viewed as homopbobia, see
 * Anti-gay slogans
 * Hate speech
 * Homophobia
 * Homophobic hate speech

Because they aren't just redirects now but actually pages with contents, it means that the Cunctator cannot redirect the page back to either titles, as they both have contents in their own right, not just redirects, without deleting the entire page and starting again. That was his stunt the last time. Now that option is closed off. Two can play at that game. His 'preferred' title ain't available any more.  JtdIrL 03:38 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)

As you know, its very difficult to see if somebody is or isn't in the middle of doing something. I suggest the wikipedia develop some internal chatrooms in which it would be easier to communicate amongst the various users. Susan Mason

If we shouldn't be (or aren't) allowed to use non-English characters in sigs then Wikipedia software should detect and reject that kind of change to your profile. I think demanding english-character-only sigs is biased and NPOV. Hehe. -- &#12516;&#12462;

Accusing someone of a bias is a bannable offense. Susan Mason

I agree with you. But calling someone's opinion "stupid" doesn't work very well. Better to attack the substance of their argument, or their sense of judgement. If all else fails, drop a "mom bomb". -- &#12516;&#12462;

Sorry for the mistake, I spend all day dealing with people who have rather limited persuasive abilities, and I tend to misunderstandimate some things. -- &#12516;&#12462;

--  &#65010;&#65014;&#65018; &#65012;,&#65011;&#65010; 

I like your new signature, with "sv" in it. Helps me distinguish your posts easily when at work :) Martin

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Hi Stevertigo. If you have such a thing for kanji, I have a suggestion: we currently have pages for latin letters: A, B, C, and Greek letters. How about a page for each letter of Kanji? -- Tarquin 13:40 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC)


 * Hello Tarquin. Your idea is appealing on the surface, but there are immediate issues that come to mind that stand in the way of this endeavor.  To begin with, Kanji characters aren't letters and there is no real concept of a Kanji alphabet.  Instead, Kanji characters are words and are traditionally listed in a dictionary.  Were we to pursue your delightful proposal, we would be in effect creating a Kanji dictionary within wikipedia.  Given that our consensus has already dictated that wikipedia is not a dictionary, you seem to be suggesting that we overthrow an established wikipedia principle.


 * Even if we ignore these social concerns we will immediately find ourselves caught by technological concerns. Despite your claim to the contrary above, we do not have entries for Greek letters but instead have entries for the names of Greek letters.  Observe for yourself that we have an entry for "Psi", but fail to have an entry for "&".  Curiously, clicking on "&" incorrectly brings us to the entry for "Î¨", which indicates that the wikipedia software itself is suffering from some linking bug.  Attempting to take the tentative first step of writing an entry for the basic Kanji "&", one finds oneself instead writing a definition for the meaningless "Æ?¥".  Therefore, even an earnest attempt to carry out your suggestion is immediately thwarted.


 * Although we could work out the wikipedia is not a dictionary consensus issues between us, the technical issues present a challenge of an altogether different magnitude. Because overcoming these problems will require developer status, perhaps your proposal should next be floated to one of the Developers.


 * Respectfully yours - º¡º

There obviously seem to be technical problems with page names. But I don't think the "not a dictionary" policy applies here -- I'm guessing, because I know nothing about all this -- but an entry on a particular glyph would presumably give a history of the glyph, its evolution, its origins, its usage. That's not a dictionary entry. -- Tarquin 18:44 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC)


 * And Tarquin, aside from your idea being disingenuous; 26,ooo hanji treated with the same care as 26 english letters... youre not being sincere...

also, for large items, it would make sense only to import them en masse from a data source that already has them compiled, like Unicode, as the Us cities were done... Are us cities the only cities in the world? dont we need entries for each town in the world?.. Aside from all of that, i disagree with the idea that each letter deserves its own article, in principle, and I characterize it as a leftover from Wikipedia's initial testing days... starting out with A, etc.. - &#35918&#30505sv


 * Actually, anonymous user, I was being serious. If SV really wants to educate Wikipedians about Kanji by using it in his sig, he might as educate out readership! I for one would be very interested in reading more about it. I do think the articles A etc are encyclopedic in nature, as they give the history and meanings of a particular thing. 26,000 articles will certainly be a lot of work. Are there any "principal" characters? Do people really learn ALL of them, or is there a "basic" vocabulary? We need answers! -- Tarquin 11:26 Mar 11, 2003 (UTC)

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 &#22235;&#20154;&#24110;&#19975;&#23681; &#27611;&#20027;&#24109;&#19975;&#23681;  21:50 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC)


 * The above signature best translates as "Long live the Gang of Four! Long live Chairman Mao!" -º¡º

Hey stevertigo,

I need input from someone with a little Japanese knowledge. I'm trying to describe a donburi simmering sauce. NImono refers to simmered dishes, and I've seen "donburi NI shiru" refer to donburi simmering sauce. But now someone tells me that it should be "donburi NU shiru". do you have any advice? Arthur 22:05 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC) (leave message on my talk page, please.)

I think you are projecting! I am attached to my own desire to understand how other people use their concepts. Thus, when asked about something like psychological theories into "attachment," I try to find out how psychologists use the term (and why). I guess one thing I am not attached to is my own navel! ;) Slrubenstein

I agree totally. He tried to change things around a while ago and I reverted one of his pages. Forgot about the other one, though. great you spotted it. This has to be finally ended. :) STÓD/ÉÍRE 05:16 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

&#21710;&#31446;&#30505;&#21531;&#65292;&#24744;&#21040;&#24213;&#24819;&#19981;&#24819;&#35201;&#27721;&#23383;&#38376;&#38754;&#21834;&#65311; &#20320;&#22914;&#26524;&#35201;&#65292;&#38543;&#26102;&#32473;&#25105;&#25171;&#20010;&#25307;&#21628;&#65292;&#25105;&#19981;&#25910;&#20320;&#38065;&#12290; &#21769;&#24744;&#21738;&#20799;&#26469;&#30340;&#32763;&#35793;&#31995;&#32479;&#21487;&#20197;&#25226;&#25972;&#20010;&#20799;&#33521;&#35821;&#24040;&#36164;&#32763;&#35793;&#25104;&#27915;&#27902;&#27996;&#27721;&#35821;&#65311; &#12385; &#12365;

Hi &#35918&#30505sv, Was the record of the year wrong on Grammy Awards of 2001? Source: the Grammy web site. Regards, sannse 17:32 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)


 * Yeah, if you check again, do a search - U2 won 9 grammys, most of them ins 2001, and 'ROTY' was for ATYCLB (sing) - Sign your name on talk pages. -&#35918;&#30505;sv


 * I see the problem: Grammy.com says:


 * Record Of The Year 2000 - (43rd Annual GRAMMY Awards) "Beautiful Day" (Single)
 * Record Of The Year, 2001 - (44th Annual GRAMMY Awards) "Walk, On"


 * But those years are not the year the award was presented, they are the previous year (the year records were produced in to be eligible).


 * "Walk On" doesn't come up in a search for awards to U2 because it was actually awarded to the engineer and producers (if you search for U2 as the artist there are 14 matches).


 * The same date problem applies to all the other awards on that list - I'll move it to Grammy Awards of 2002. I'm glad you noticed this before I'd got much further!  I was just about to add all the awards for 1975 (which should have been on the 1976 page)  Thanks :)


 * p.s. I did sign (and date) my first message on this page, do you mean I forgot on another page? Sorry if so.  Signing again -> sannse 18:29 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)


 * Just popped back to correct my implication that I'd done the list on Grammy Awards of 2002, that was Tuf-Kat's work. I've been working off-line on similar lists for other years and got confused.  -- sannse 19:42 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

Ah, but I do have the imagination to see the connection between "attachments" and "idols." But to be blunt, I found Marx's and Freud's (as well as many other's from Pietz to Deleuze and Guattari's) musings on this topic far more imaginative, as well as thoughtful and sophisticated, than anything I have yet read on Wikipedia, especially the original version of the articles on "attachment" and "idol." Moreover, they use words rather differently than the way words were used in those articles. Since I believe people will find far more stimulation for their mind as well as soul by reading those folk, I think that Wikipedia can help by introducing readers to the language used by them. An analogy: why continue driving in that beat-up Chevy Nova that needs a tune-up, when your thoughts and feelings can take flight (to mix metaphors) in a Lamborghini? I've been in the Lamborghini of the imagination, and believe me, the original article on idol-worship, and on attachments, felt like trying to walk in the sand, with weights tied to my legs... Slrubenstein

I do not mind if the words on the page are in simple black and white -- my mind is full of colors, so full of swirling colors, that what to you may appear colorless is in my mind a kalaidescope of tropical fish, bubbles, and stardust. Slrubenstein

Rachel Corrie photos - you said "Photo courtesy http://www.palsolidarity.org" - I just want to check - have they given us explicit permission to use these photos under the GFDL? Or are you just giving the source of the photo without making any statement about copyright? I've heard four different things from four different wikipedians, so I'd like to know what the real story is! :) Martin

If you need to make a letter drop use Two16 @ groovy.net will be set up as soon as I go to the research labs. User:Two16

Hey. I just wanted to say that I love your sketches. The Wikipede is gorgeous: typing, reading, reaching for books... It helped convince me to support the centipede. Thus, I comission you to draw more, which you may refuse to do since I have no authority and am not paying you. -- Stephen Gilbert 21:38 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Hey, great to see you back. Where have you been? :-) FearÉÍREANN 21:49 26 May 2003 (UTC)


 * Nice to see you back, Stevertigo :) Oh, and since we now have WikiMoney, I'll pay you a wiki-kiss for any sketches you draw for the 'pedia. (admittedly this may rapidly bankrupt me...) Martin

My name is not Adam... Pizza Puzzle

The best part of the quote is its author. Pizza Puzzle

I see that you're the Ambassador for the Japanese Wikipedia, and apparently you know the language quite a bit better than the average bear, so you or someone you know is probably qualified to tackle the translation of Japanese proverbs. -Smack 05:41 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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I am aware this title is stupidly long Steve, but I want this issue at least temporarily solved before I leave. I did not see any proposition I was happy with, and was not able to give one that could be satisfying. I have waited a long time on the talk page, in hope someone else would propose something better. But no one did, and all left to me to choose a title. I thought if I did choose it, that could steer some reaction :-) These articles have been renamed so many times already, that one more is really no big deal. As long as nothing get lost in the process. You are most welcome to give your opinion. I will be very happy of any good proposition as long as every one stays polite. Anthère

et...merci pour le français :-) Amicalement

Respect and civility are supposed to win. It is clear it does not hold the same importance for everyone. I feel tired Stevie. I consider the cost effectiveness of the past 6 weeks, and I am not convinced. So leave I need. Perhaps totally. Perhaps to focus on the french wikipedia. Perhaps to see if internationals have room in the wikimedia. But sure a break I need. When I am done cleaning. Enough windmills, right ? :-)

You are absolutely right. It is not a cause, but a symptom of a need. The cause just allow the need to raise its head higher. Someone understood at evolution. I don't know if anyone will help at Gaia. If a good title was found, it would be more secure. I will have to count on Slr and 168 to remind people of my opinion. But the more I fix before, the more chance it has to stay. Perhaps. Little hope though.

- is it the custom now to not leave signatures? :)


 * well. I do not sign often on the fr wiki :-) I "trigramme" (Ant). Being less active, we communicate less by personal pages, more often on discussion pages. I make the effort here though. Anthère 15:29 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)~(yes, I did !)

I'm sure JimRegan is a great guy, but I'm not sure he should dictate how that page looks on my machine. And in case you're wondering, it looks like hell on my machine. It hurts my eyes. Koyaanis Qatsi 00:30, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * Ick, I don't like it at Go game either. It reminds me of a vision test, but one designed by a sadist.  Koyaanis Qatsi


 * Hm, I think the onus is on the person who wants the color on a page to prove the usefulness and unoffensiveness of the color, rather than the other way around--especially given the differences in browser setups. Best,  Koyaanis Qatsi 00:51, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)

LOL, that's with an O, mind you. ^_^ Koyaanis Qatsi

Sysop status approved
Congratulations, you have just been made a sysop! You have volunteered for boring housekeeping activities which normal users sadly cannot participate in. Sysops basically can't do anything: They cannot delete pages arbitarily (only obvious junk like "jklasdfl,öasdf JOSH IS GAY"), they cannot protect pages in an edit war they are involved in, they cannot ban signed in users. What they can do is delete junk as it appears, ban anonymous vandals, remove pages that have been listed on Votes for deletion for more than a week, protect pages when asked to by other members, and help keep the few protected pages there are, among them the precious Main Page, up to date.

Note that almost everything you can do can be undone, so don't be too worried about making mistakes. You will find more information at Administrators, please take a look before experimenting with your new powers. Drop me a message if there are any questions or if you want to stop being a sysop (could it be?). Have fun!&mdash;Eloquence 22:13, Aug 5, 2003 (UTC)

Stevertigo, I reverted most of your changes to the RST articles. The pages other than the main article still need to be deleted. You seem to have confused "deleted" with "empty". The current RST page is also the work of much work, compromise, and huge amounts of discussion, adding material from the other pages that are to be deleted is a really bad idea. Unless you want to be sucked into the black hole, you might want to wait for Tim Starling and Doug to resolve any irregularities caused by the forthcoming deletions. Just a suggestion... :-) Daniel Quinlan 05:44, Aug 8, 2003 (UTC)

About the move I did: It was an unsuccessful attempt to revert a petty piece of vandalism accomplished by the previous move, and it looks like maveric149 cleaned up after me. -- NetEsq 00:16, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)