User talk:Strebe/Archive 1

Nice update on the [Hobbit] page. Cheers Mahaabaala 15:15, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Changes made to Cartography were good and varifiable
Hi Strebe, i added a coherent and varifiable source to the Cartography heading on Wikipedia on the 5th May with internal links to wikipedia varifying his contributions. Was there a need to re-edit this indeed it added more value to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.43.122.227 (talk) 18:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

Spelling in The Hobbit
Please don't 'correct' edits without checking your facts. -ize is a perfectly acceptable British English spelling variant (see American and British English spelling differences) and was JRRT's preferred form. Thu (talk) 09:54, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:HMCoFirstEditionHobbitCover.jpg
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The Hobbit - copyediting
Hi Strebe, I've requested the League of Copyeditors take a look at The Hobbit. I know you're quite exacting about the requirements of the Plot synopsis, so hope you'll keep an eye on it. Of course your input on the rest of the article would be welcome also. --Davémon (talk) 20:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks . ..
for fixing The Hobbit. I noticed that a reference-restoring bot had come along after the vandal, but I didn't have time to see what it had done and repeat it. Rivertorch (talk) 01:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

for clarifying Talk:Gnomonic projection query. --Redbobblehat (talk) 01:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:HobbitTwelfthImpLastPageMeasure.jpg
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File:HobbitTwelfthImpLastPage.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:HobbitTwelfthImpLastPage.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Samuell Lift me up or put me down 19:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

File:HobbitTwelfthImpLastPageMeasure.jpg
I've retagged this image as non-free. Photographing a copyright work does not transfer rights to you. I've also marked it as missing a fair use rationale, which will result in its removal in seven days if one is not supplied. Thanks, --Hammersoft (talk) 16:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

OpenType‎
Hello,

I think this definition should be left divided - the first part is about what it (OpenType‎) is, while the rest is just a timeline: not essential to understand the nature of the thing, but still useful piece of information.

"Paragraph [...] is a self-contained unit of a discourse in writing dealing with a particular point or idea" - so it's a "comprehension" unit, unrelated to how much sentences it encloses (in fact, as I read the Web a lot, I find it very popular in english to make one-sentence paragraphs). Dividing this way (mainly by the "subject" of paragraphs) greatly enhances readability of the definitions. kocio (talk) 11:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * As you can see someone entirely rewrote the introduction, so - at least for me - the problem vanished automatically. =} kocio (talk) 22:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

What would Bilbo do?
Hi, Strebe. Re your revert, I have no particular interest in the spelling's being either way (-ize or -ise) and generally find myself in agreement with your argument here that back-and-forth edits (of the type that the IP editor and you and I just made) are inane. However, in cases where one spelling isn't clearly more appropriate than the other—and this appears to be such a case—consistency seems best. That's why I made the change: I skimmed the rest of the page, saw two instances of authorised, and assumed the IP editor either thought there was a misspelling or was inappropriately trying to "Americanize" a British topic. I see now that the page is a hodgepodge of both forms. That inconsistency seems unfortunate. What do you think? Rivertorch (talk) 16:03, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, Rivertorch. Thanks for the note. I nearly reverted the anonymous edit myself. But we do claim to use Oxford spelling in the article, and in the case of "recognize", Oxford preferred usage is "-ize". As far as I can tell, all the "-ize"/"-ise" words should be "-ize", including "authorized". I really do not understand Oxford usage. "-ize" reflects the Latin form, bypassing French. Yet that is also true of "color" versus "colour" and like words, but obviously Oxford doesn't put up with "color"! *sigh* I would clean up the article, but I don't own an Oxford dictionary. "Recognize" happens to be noted in the Wikipedia style guide itself under the Oxford section, so I reinstated the anonymous edit. Strebe (talk) 16:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I may be extraordinarily dense today, but where is it noted that we claim to use Oxford spelling? If you're right about that, then authorised should also be changed. (I don't have an OED at hand either, but the abridged Concise version is online here; it lists the -ize form first for both recognize and authorize.) Rivertorch (talk) 18:28, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Not dense. It's hidden as a mark-up comment as the first bytes of the article: "< !-- This article uses British English with Oxford Spelling. Please use this when editing the article." Ooh. An online version of the Oxford? Yes. We should take care of the whole article, then. Strebe (talk) 19:17, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. I'm dubious that the hidden note resulted from consensus, but for consistency's sake I made the changes. Rivertorch (talk) 05:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Beliefs about the shape of the Earth
Hi, Strebe. I'd like to thank you for my clumsy quotation about Bede's view of the spherical Earth. --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)


 * My pleasure. Strebe (talk) 22:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)


 * And also for this:
 * Rv. Isaiah insertions and redundant Eratosthenes insertion. The Isaiah passage has been discussed ad nauseam. "Circle" does not mean "sphere"; nor does the original Hebrew word mean "sphere".


 * The only significant distinction is between Flat Earth and Spherical Earth. If it's a "circle" that means flat, and it should go in the prescientific or pseudoscience category.


 * By the way, did you see all the work I did on the Myth of the Flat Earth, i.e., the modern notion that Medieval Europeans had gone back to Flat Earth thinking because of supposedly anti-scientific elements within Christianity? --Uncle Ed (talk) 22:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Uncle Ed. Thanks for the comments. I had not seen the Myth of the Flat Earth article. It's good to see it in Wikipedia, and thanks for your efforts there. The Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth section, by the way, could use some edits for clarity. Strebe (talk) 23:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Dating convention
Hi. The choice of the dating convention are by good WP practice left to the contributing author, therefore I partially had to revert you on Spherical Earth. See also User preferences for BCE/CE notation. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 22:42, 23 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I am afraid you are mistaken. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Longer_periods. Specifically, "Use either the BC–AD or the BCE–CE notation, but not both in the same article." I don't care which we use, but the BCE/CE convention dominated the article. Strebe (talk) 01:21, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * First thing which comes to my mind is: why didn't you choose BC/AD then? But anyway, MoS is only an appeal to the individual to be consistent in his notation, not at all a mandate to change existing notations to one style, an interpretation with which I can assure you you will run with very quickly into trouble everywhere. That the good practice of keeping exxisting notations is very much alive, applied and respected, you can see here, for example. Regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 07:42, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You: "MoS is only an appeal to the individual to be consistent in his notation, not at all a mandate to change existing notations to one style" The policy: "Use either the BC–AD or the BCE–CE notation, but not both in the same article." Should I believe you or the policy? The link you provided here, User preferences for BCE/CE notation does not seem to contribute anything useful to the discussion; it merely indicates that Wikipedia's project to supply a user preference has fallen apart. The link you supply above demonstrates an edit which unifies the convention within an article, in contradiction to your assertion that the article does not need to be unified. You ask, "First thing which comes to my mind is: why didn't you choose BC/AD then?", when I have already answered with, "I don't care which we use, but the BCE/CE convention dominated the article." We don't seem to be getting anywhere. Strebe (talk) 11:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * No, we don't get anywhere, since you choose to ignore the good practice established but instead quote guidelines out of context. The link I gave you reestablished notations which were previously erroneously changed to BC/AD, so it fully backs up my argument that the original authors, and only the original contributor, have the right to choose between the two systems.
 * I cannot read from that quote of yours the mandate you seem to demand. It clearly address the individual editor who creates the contents, not some self-appointed sweeper who happens to come along a long time afterwards.
 * And logically, assuming for the moment that you are right, what would keep other users, on the basis of this very same quote, to change the notation in Spherical Earth consistently to BC/AD? You might say in this case BCE/CE occurred more often, but where actually does that single sentence you rely upon makes a specification to that effect? Nowhere. Please note that MoS is only for style, but the choice of notation actually goes far beyond style. That's exactly the reason why there are no binding guidelines because the issue raises strong emotions and therefore it is best to let the authors choose individually. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 11:17, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your efforts, but please just let it go this time. The only practical way, for the sake of peace, it to let the individual author decide so the original notation has to be kept irrespective what you and I may think about theGun Powder Ma (talk) 21:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)m. Regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 11:30, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You are simply making things up. The Manual of Style exists to resolve these disputes, not just to inject ignorable suggestions when people make things up. It is unfortunate that Wikipedia has not managed to come to some stylistic convention in this matter nor has it managed to come up with a user-settable preference for that category of user who imagines it's actually important which particular convention gets adopted. But what it has stated is that the article must use a single convention. That's not open to debate. That's what is says. Right there, in context. You cannot credibly claim it is out of context; you cannot credibly claim the purpose of the Manual of Style is not for resolving conflicts. The policy resolves these disputes; made-up ideas don't. I don't care if it's BC/AD or BC/BCE. I think that's a pointless, frivolous debate. I do care that an article is coherent. Since the article was originally BC/AD and remained so for at least the first four years, then fine, those who edited it after that were obliged to follow the established convention. The fact that they didn't is why the article became a mess. Strebe (talk) 11:45, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree the issue is a waste of time for everybody, therefore this is my take to settle this informally before it will get really big in the upcoming mediation process. I won't object to the consistent use of the BC/AD notation (if that was indeed the first notation as you say) in this particular article on the condition that you stop trying to standardize the notation in further articles. Regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 21:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * My purpose in editing Wikipedia is to improve it. You are asking me to forswear my purpose in editing Wikipedia. I will not do that. My edit history is public. You can see that I don't go editing random articles. Spherical Earth was not some random article I wandered into and got into some fit about. I've been editing that article for years now. So, while I certainly will not go off on a rampage to correct every untidy article I can find, nor will I agree not to correct articles I customarily edit or would normally edit. Strebe (talk) 05:36, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Isaiah 40:22
Many thanks for removing the material on Isaiah from the spherical Earth article. I had flagged it, but it didn't occur to me to check the flat Earth article, where the issue is discussed and referenced. If someone adds the material to the spherical Earth article again, I'll add a cross-reference of some kind to the discussion in the flat Earth article. All the best. –Syncategoremata (talk) 21:54, 15 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help as well. As for the reference to Isaiah in flat earth, even that does not tell the whole story. Hebrew cosmology is fairly well understood. The model and how it is described do not differ significantly from surrounding cultures, all of which have the earth as firmly flat and covered by the solid dome of the firmament. I have found no serious academic support for interpreting Isaiah as a reference to a spherical earth, even amongst Jewish scholars. Strebe (talk) 23:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Mercator projection
Please see here. Thanks. – Smyth\talk 12:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Optimal
Thanks, you're right about optimal being a two-place predicate. Larklight (talk) 22:51, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Shape of the Earth Merger Discussion
Your comments are welcome at the discussion of the merger proposals involving Flat Earth, Spherical Earth, and Shape of the Earth. --SteveMcCluskey (talk) 21:18, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Dymaxion map
Re this edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dymaxion_map&action=historysubmit&diff=403472432&oldid=403468015

Sorry, you're right. For some reason I had it fixed in my mind that the icosahedron was inscribed inside the sphere, but there's no reason why that has to be the case... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.26.23 (talk) 12:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

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Neutrino
"known to release approximately 99%" had a reference, why was that removed? Distinct themes, perhaps my bad... but disjointed paragraphs / sentences look crummy, chattier verbiage can make an imposing subject approachable. Anyway, there are fact tags for items already referenced, I'll fix it. Try not to break it. - RoyBoy 04:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)


 * "known to release approximately 99%" had a reference, why was that removed?
 * —I don’t know. You must ask the person who removed it.
 * but disjointed paragraphs / sentences look crummy
 * —I agree, but paragraphs conjoined in order to look better fail in their purpose as paragraphs.
 * chattier verbiage can make an imposing subject approachable
 * —I do not describe simpler verbiage as “chattier”. I describe verbiage containing superfluous or idiomatic words as “chattier”. Those practices do not aid in understanding. They are simply poor writing.
 * Regards, Strebe (talk) 20:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I am, guess it was a mistake. - RoyBoy 01:46, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Every once in a while I look at the history of articles I edited. And I noticed that you have done a lot of work on the neutrino article since the OPERA result. I just wanted to say I think you have been doing a great job. Thanks a lot. Drxenocide (talk) 15:00, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the kind words, Drxenocide. Strebe (talk) 18:34, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Neutrino - style
Hi, thanks for correcting my "very awkward structure" :-))))))

I am not a native speaker. --Pavel Jelinek (talk) 09:18, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, Pavel. Thanks for the note. Please keep up the good work! I’m always happy to help with the parts I can do well. Strebe (talk) 09:56, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

The Hobbit FA push
Hello. As you've been one of the more regular contributors to The Hobbit I thought I'd let you know that I'd like to nominate it as a Featured Article candidate. The article has recently received a peer review and I've addressed the issues that were mentioned by the reviewer. But if you think there's some more work to do, please let me know. The only thing I'm a bit worried about is the mentioning of the very first film adaptation, an animated short film by Gene Deitch of Tom & Jerry fame, that has only recently been recalled by its creator. The sourcing for this entry is a bit poor but from my point of view the rest of the article is ready to go. Regards, De728631 (talk) 15:39, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the efforts, De728631. The Hobbit is in fine shape these days. I support its nomination. As for the Gene Deitch adaptation, while a secondary source would be preferable, no such thing has surfaced. Still, the existence of the video clip is not in doubt, nor its authorship, so mention of it is fine. Elaborating on how the film clip came to be is more problematic because that relies entirely on Deitch as a source. Possibly those details should be omitted. The article should not state the licensing rights as fact without better sourcing. Strebe (talk) 18:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback, I've removed the licensing part and "negotiating tool" so the article mentions only the mere publication of said film and Snyder as the ordering party. De728631 (talk) 19:13, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Again, thanks. I reordered the sentence a bit an clarified a bit. Hopefully it still works now. Strebe (talk) 21:08, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, good work there. I'll be bold then and initiate the FA process. De728631 (talk) 15:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I see you've now been editing there a bit as well. Please feel free to weigh in at Featured article candidates/The Hobbit/archive2. De728631 (talk) 19:04, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and good work. I’ve commented on the proposed edits and made a significant one. I’m not sure how that section slipped through with all its problems. Strebe (talk) 20:21, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

UTF-8 meaningless vs invalid sequence
(I apologize for my weak english.) On the article Mapping of Unicode characters there was a speaking of byte order marks and I replaced the word "meaningless" to "invalid", then you referred to http://unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html#bom5 and reverted my change. Let me explain why it is actually invalid, instead of meaningless. The byte order mark is U+FEFF which is a unicode codepoint. In UTF-8 it's a 3 byte sequence, EF BB BF. So if a text parser sees this sequence in the middle of a UTF-8 string, it's a valid string (regardless it shouldn't be there, as the article states you linked). But if we encounter the bytesequence FE FF or FF FE, it's invalid, because it doesn't map to ANY codepoint in UTF-8 (but VALID in UTF-16, mapping to U+FEFF, in the correct endiannes). Cf. Hay (talk) 18:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, you are correct. Thank you for persisting. And, your English is just fine! Strebe (talk) 20:12, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Maps
Hi Strebe, I seem to run into a fair chunk of your comments on talk pages and I thought I'd give you a thumbs up. Also I wondered if you ever check WikiProject Maps - I quite fancy getting all the map projection articles in a more organised framework - perhaps via a template. I wondered if you had any opinion on the matter.EdwardLane (talk) 10:14, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Many thanks, EdwardLane. Your own contributions are dizzying in scope. Good on you! I strongly favor connecting the map projection articles. As it stands, I don’t even know what they all are, even though I intend to follow them all. If you have experience with this, just let me know how to get started. Strebe (talk) 17:39, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I stuggle not to charge at the windmills, but no I've not tried anything like this yet, but how hard can it be :) I'll see if I can find a suitable template to act as a guide, I think it's probably just creating a table really so we'd need to figure out what structure to use to describe the different projections. Maintains distance/bearing/shape that kind of thing, probably I should start with the categories listed in the cartographic projections article. If I made that all into a table on that page, then it could become the (or basis for the) template. Hmm ok maybe when I get a spare hour or so. EdwardLane (talk) 09:20, 6 April 2012 (UTC)


 * We have some duplication in purpose between map projections and list of map projections, and both are haphazard in their representation. This all needs some thought and reworking. Rather, I assumed you meant something along the lines of just a template marking a category for articles pertaining to map projections (such as { {atlas} } or { {geography} }), but it sounds like you have something more ambitious in mind? Thanks. Strebe (talk) 17:31, 6 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I was thinking it might benefit from something more like Template:Geography_topics EdwardLane (talk) 21:03, 7 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah! Yes. Then I favor your proposal. I will have to think about the taxonomy. Strebe (talk) 23:58, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Few more rows to go but ran out of time here's what I got in the hour so far EdwardLane (talk) 12:05, 8 April 2012 (UTC)


 * OK I'm now finished with this - it's as good as I can get it I think - I grabbed all the data I could from map projections and list of map projections. Hopefully not too many mistakes?? I know it's not perfect and there are bound to be extra projections and types of projection I've missed. I know I don't know enough to fix that without reading all the entries anyway. Could you check there are no really stupid mistakes please, and then it can gradually get improved by other folk, once { {Map Projections} } has been stuck at the bottom of all the relevant pages. EdwardLane (talk) 16:21, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I notice you've fixed some bits in the template :) I guess we need consistant fixes to the list of map projections - or map projections pages too. EdwardLane (talk) 21:54, 8 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I should have warned you about how incoherent the articles are. I keep making fixes here and there but the reality is that the articles are fundamentally broken. Strebe (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Ptolemy II projection
Strebe, thankyou for the word on Ptolemy's [P]two Pprojections (yours @me on the Waldseemuller Talk-page). Looking for ways to move forward a bit (and numbering for rapid reference) - might you be able to help? - I gather that (1) there is a "Ptolemy's Second Projection"; and (2) there's more to it than just the change-of-scale involved in his progression from the Syntaxis to the Geographia; and (3) it is found in-use in C.16. That has helped me / sharpened up my scrutiny of what I'm looking at. I'm still pretty confident that (4) the titling on the Waldseemuller map is not in fact saying that the map's done on Ptolemy II (I still read the Latin as saying the map's done "according to the Ptolemaic tradition" rather than anything about any "second" anything). I notice that (5) no-one seems to have written up Ptolemy II on Wikipedia: mentions I've seen present onscreen in black not blue! (The List of Map Projections (6) isn't wholly limited to the Renaissance / Modern period - it starts with a mention of the equirectangular projection as c.120AD, due Marinus of Tyre - but (7) its emphasis largely excludes Antiquity and (8) Ptolemy is unmentioned there; similarly in (9) the Map Projection article: (10) Renaissance/Modern focus + (11) no Ptolemy.) Unfortunately (12) the references / links you've given me aren't telling me much: I don't have access to a copy of (12) the (printed) Snyder source you mention, and the mention by (13) the Mapthematics people and the information on (14) the National Library of Oz source don't give any comparisons or depth. Can you (15) point me to anything that describes the differences between Ptolemy I and II? And - (16) I'm thinking Waldseemuller is extremely early (1507) in C.16 - do we know what are the earliest known uses (post-Antiquity, obviously!) of Ptolemy II? SquisherDa (talk) 18:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * 2. Yes, the difference is profound. The original projection described by Ptolemy is just a conic with a lip around the bottom. He also described a third projection, but in Book 7 of Geography instead of Book 1, where the first two are described. The third projection is a sort of azimuthal scheme. It is not known to ever have been used.
 * 3. Ptolemy II has many examples of 15th and 16th century use.
 * 4. Correct. The translated title as given in the Waldseemüller map article is, The Universal Cosmography according to the Tradition of Ptolemy and the Discoveries of Amerigo Vespucci and others. Hence, no mention of projection.
 * 5. Correct. There is no article dedicated to the Ptolemy projections.
 * 6. Correct. There is no intent to limit the projections in the List of map projections article.
 * 7. The list of maps in that article is haphazard and by no means “complete”. (There is no such complete list anywhere; it’s not even clear what that would mean.)
 * 12. Snyder obtained translations of the Ptolemy I and II projections from Edward Luther Stevenson’s Geography of Claudius Ptolemy. New York: New York Public Library, 1932. pp. 40–45. Reprinted as Claudius Ptolemy, The Geography, New York: Dover Publications, 1991.
 * 15. Snyder is the only analysis I have seen. He explains the translations provided by Stevenson and developed the mathematics.
 * 16. Earliest known use of the second projection is the 1482 Ulm Ptolemy atlas, engraved by Johann Schnitzer of Armszheim and printed by Leinhard Holle.
 * Strebe (talk) 22:35, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * (I've gone quiet, temporarily; rather than gone away permanently. Your advice made me aware of the WP:OR / WP:RS / WP:SYN etc side of things - as alongside the perhaps slightly rhetorical unBite / unRules / WP:AGF etc - so I've been checking things out.  (Have a peek iff interested.)  I'll be back (secundum Schwartzenegger? / MacArthur?).)
 * SquisherDa (talk) 11:06, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Map projection
Thanks for improving my edits on this page. It's cleaner and clearer now. hgilbert (talk) 20:46, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. That article needs so much work, but I can’t seem to get around to it. Edits like yours help, and they prod me as well. Strebe (talk) 21:27, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikimapia
Please see the links from WP:AN Concerning Wikimapia Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Sfan00 IMG. I went over the materials you linked to. I see the problem. In this case let me make an alternative argument: The World map article does not cite Wikimapia or link to it as authoritative on any particular topic (unlike its use elsewhere in Wikipedia). The article merely notes it as a “world map” link, which it is. It seems at least as relevant as many of the other links, several of which are more “self-published” than Wikimapia. Possibly even more links ought to be removed than I already have, but the list as it stands gives a diverse and useful sampling. (I have no connection whatever to Wikimapia, not even as a registered user.) Strebe (talk) 22:12, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, But I think perhaps it should be further down the list... Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:57, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Unreliability of UTF-8 BOM
You reverted my edit to byte order mark, in which I said:


 * ...the presence of the BOM serves at best as an unreliable hint that a text stream or file might be UTF-8.

as a "non sequitur". I think the meaning of my addition is clear, and I meant exactly what I said. Let me explain in more detail.

The absence of a UTF-8 BOM at the start of a file means nothing: the file could still be a UTF-8 text file without a BOM, so there's no information content there at all. The presence of a UTF-8 BOM at the start of a file might mean that it's a UTF-8 encoded text file. Or it might not. Or it might mean that it's an ISO 8859-1 text file beginning in "ï»¿". Or it might be a binary file in some other format starting, by chance, with the bytes in question. There's really no way of knowing. Now, you might say that this is sophistry, that it is obvious from the rest of its content that the file is a text file -- but at this point, you are engaged in content sniffing, and might as well use a heuristic detector to discover the encoding.

As I said in the article, the presence of a UTF-8 BOM is useful as a hint that a file is in UTF-8, but no more. And it's certainly not reliable. Hence my choice of words. -- The Anome (talk) 12:30, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * No, your edit was a non sequitur because it stated, "Byte order has no meaning in UTF-8 so in UTF-8 the BOM serves only, at best, as an unreliable hint". The conclusion of unreliability has nothing to do with byte order having no meaning. Also your statement that the BOM serves “at best as an unreliable / hint that a text stream or file might be UTF-8.” states “might be” FOUR different ways in one sentence, grossly emphasizing the unreliability. The presence of a BOM is, in practice, a far more likely indicator than “at best an unreliable hint that it might be”. Strebe (talk) 19:35, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Even if the exact wording which The Anome may be claimed to be a "non sequitur" if you take them literally whihout regarding the context, there was no reason to delete the more detailed wording by which I described the same fact, including deleting the additional information like a link to the ongoing discussion. I am tempted to regard this as near to vandalism. Therefore, I have reverted your recent deletion.  -- Karl432 (talk) 20:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You need to address the comments I made at Talk:Byte order mark. Your accusations of vandalism, in particular, are not helpful and, along with your ignoring of the discussion on the Talk page, suggest a lack of sincerity or some emotional investment unrelated to the needs of the article. Strebe (talk) 22:36, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * By your repeated revert from July 14 (with remark "You need to address...") you indiscriminately reverted the following changes:

"so in UTF-8 the BOM does not declare a byte order, but serves only as a declaration of the fact that the following text is encoded in UTF-8. It is to be noted that the presence of the byte sequence representing an UTF-8 encoded BOM at the start of a text stream or file can be interpreted as a hint that a text stream or file might be encoded as UTF-8, but not as a proof, as such a byte sequence may have other unrelating meanings unless such can be excluded by other knowledge of the context." by "so in UTF-8 the BOM serves only to identify a text stream or file as UTF-8". What is your concrete concern about the more specific wording? I still consider your repeated revert of expert input at least as impolite. I do now take the appropriate action and revert your revert, to allow the input of other experts than you be shown. Of course, you stay invited to imprive the article by constructive single edits (rather than indiscriminate reverts) which are appropriately commented. --Karl432 (talk) 20:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * replacing in section "UTF-8", 2nd paragraph, the wording
 * replacing the more precise "not explicitly recommend" [the use of the BOM] by the misunderstandable "not recommend" (which can be interpreted as "does recommend to [use] not", as I wrote in the remark associated to that change) at two places (2nd and 3rd paragraph of section "UTF-8"). What is your concrete concern about this wording?
 * deleting the reference to a mail from Asmus Freytag (one of the authors of the Unicode standard) published on the Unicode mailing list, in which a concise summmary of the BOM problems addressed by the text you have reverted is given. What is your concrete concern with this link?
 * reverting the change if "indicate" (the wording the standard uses) to "identify" in the footnote 1 of the section "Representations of byte order marks by encoding". What is your concrete concern about this wording?
 * Also, where is a contradiction to anything mentioned in the Talk Page for which you claim a need to be addressed? (Besides the fact that anything to be addressed is 1.) the standard, 2.) sources given by the members of the standard committee like those found on the Unicode mailing list, and only 3.) tertiary sources like the talk page.)


 * Could you please discuss this on the Byte order mark Talk page where it belongs? It’s useless here. Other people don’t know to look here. Strebe (talk) 23:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

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Red dwarf
Please respond to my message on Talk:Red dwarf regarding grammar in the lead. Cadiomals (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk page edits
Please don't refactor talk pages like you did here. Your edit removed my comment which is generally not acceptable per our Talk page guidelines. I've now restored it, so please continue the discussion. De728631 (talk) 16:47, 17 November 2012 (UTC)


 * What "comment" do you refer to? You dropped a huge spew of article text in middle of existing Talk page dialog. How is that acceptable per guidelines or even simple reason? It looks indistinguishable from vandalism. If you have something to discuss, great, let's discuss. Strebe (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It was an example of a proposed edit, which is a very common way of discussing controversial edits. I would've expected you to know that. Not to mention that you didn't even leave an edit summary. That said, that whole discussion is made up of samples of article content, so your argument is moot. De728631 (talk) 22:01, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
 * On a second look after reading your reply on the article talk I agree that some of my templates ended up in your previous text, and I don't know either how that happened. At least it was not at all intentional. So let's go back to business and discuss the layout of that article. De728631 (talk) 22:06, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Sandy
Show me a reliable news source from the last month stating that the island may possibly exist! otherwise we are duty bound to report that it does not, regardless of our personal beliefs. I am actually a member of the Flat Earth Society but do not promote their views on wikipedia.--Milowent • hasspoken 11:48, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. maybe this will help. National Geographic says as of 29 Nov.:  "Full evidence has finally been presented. “Sandy Island” has now been officially stricken from all National Geographic map products."--Milowent • hasspoken  13:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry. I will not discuss this with you for the simple fact that you have no clue what’s even in dispute here and because your cognitive model of facts is fundamentally in conflict with mine, with science’s, and with Wikipedia’s. Strebe (talk) 23:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep telling yourself that. I'll leave you alone.--Milowent • hasspoken 00:08, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Propp
I'm sorry if I came of as harassing, but try and take a step back and ask yourself; what is Propp's structural analysis? Why mention that it was formed from a study of Russian folklore in particular? So, either expand and explain your point, or find some other way of saying it more directly. For more discussion let's use the talk page. Abductive (reasoning) 08:38, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Have you read
? Dougweller (talk) 13:00, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Flat Earth
Are you aware of WP:3RR? That was a content dispute and there are no exceptions to 3RR except BLP violations and obvious vandalism. Dougweller (talk) 07:19, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Why are you mentioning this? I did not revert more than three times and in fact I requested that the page be protected—which it now is. Strebe (talk) 09:28, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Because I told the other editor. I find if I don't it causes needless aggro. Didn't mean to offend you. Dougweller (talk) 16:40, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Just thought I must have missed something. No worries. Strebe (talk) 18:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Help requested
Can you tell me where you went for help on the Flat Earth article? I'm having a problem with a very aggressive, uncooperative editor on the article Ecclesiastes - he's reverting everything and making very little attempt to discuss. PiCo (talk) 00:02, 2 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, PiCo. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I just requested that the page be protected. Strebe (talk) 02:57, 2 January 2013 (UTC)